Cadillac Drops 2.0T from CT6 In the US

Should have been this way from the beginning IMO.

Now it starts $1,000 more than an E-Class, but comes with a V6 and AWD while the E-Class is still a 4-cylinder and RWD.  All in a much roomier car. 

The CT6 should never have had a 2.0T in it in the first place.  AWD only will be interesting though.

Oh 2.0T, we hardly knew ye.  

CT6 needed to ditch the 4 cylinder.  AWD on all models makes sense, most buyers will opt for it anyway, so it just gives less configurations to have to build.  I actually think the CT6 would be more compelling with the 3.0 turbo standard and make the car $59,000.  Then it would align with an A6 and E450.    And allow some space for the CT5 in the $40-59k range.

I actually think all Cadillacs should be turbocharged and all wheel drive.  

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Oh 2.0T, we hardly knew ye.  

CT6 needed to ditch the 4 cylinder.  AWD on all models makes sense, most buyers will opt for it anyway, so it just gives less configurations to have to build.  I actually think the CT6 would be more compelling with the 3.0 turbo standard and make the car $59,000.  Then it would align with an A6 and E450.    And allow some space for the CT5 in the $40-59k range.

 

I actually think all Cadillacs should be turbocharged and all wheel drive.  

One slight change: All FWD Cadillacs should be AWD standard.  The RWD Cadillacs should have AWD as an option.

14 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Oh 2.0T, we hardly knew ye.  

CT6 needed to ditch the 4 cylinder.  AWD on all models makes sense, most buyers will opt for it anyway, so it just gives less configurations to have to build.  I actually think the CT6 would be more compelling with the 3.0 turbo standard and make the car $59,000.  Then it would align with an A6 and E450.    And allow some space for the CT5 in the $40-59k range.

 

I actually think all Cadillacs should be turbocharged and all wheel drive.  

The 3.6 with the 10-speed in such a light for its size vehicle is fine as a base powertrain.  Why shouldn't the CT6 compete with the E300 by offering a V6 in place of a 4-cylinder?

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The 3.6 with the 10-speed in such a light for its size vehicle is fine as a base powertrain.  Why shouldn't the CT6 compete with the E300 by offering a V6 in place of a 4-cylinder?

I suppose they could go that route.   But we are also in a position where Cadillac’s “flagship” is competing with the E300/E450.  

8 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I suppose they could go that route.   But we are also in a position where Cadillac’s “flagship” is competing with the E300/E450.  

Cadillac's flagship is and has been the Escalade for more than a decade. 

I still think Cadillac's strategy is going to be offering the largest vehicle in a price class.   The CT5 aligned against the 3-series, the CT6 aligned against the 5-series, etc. 

7 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Cadillac's flagship is and has been the Escalade for more than a decade. 

I still think Cadillac's strategy is going to be offering the largest vehicle in a price class.   The CT5 aligned against the 3-series, the CT6 aligned against the 5-series, etc. 

The Escalade is that, but I think there is room above the Escalade for another SUV.  That high dollar SUV segment is about to get flooded.

CT6, CT5, CT4 aligned against E, C and A-class respectively is probably Cadillac’s best strategy to go with.  And you can swap in 5, 3, and 1-series or A6, A4, A3 or S90, S60, S40 if you prefer those comparisons.  

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Cadillac's flagship is and has been the Escalade for more than a decade. 

I still think Cadillac's strategy is going to be offering the largest vehicle in a price class.   The CT5 aligned against the 3-series, the CT6 aligned against the 5-series, etc. 

I think that's what Cadillac and Lincoln should go after. Use their old school heritage to their advantage and don't try and copy what others are doing. Make over-sized luxury barges(per dollar). 

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

The Escalade is that, but I think there is room above the Escalade for another SUV.

How much bigger do you want them to go? It already dwarfs everything that isn't a dually heavy duty truck on the road(and Expedition/Navigator). 

29 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I think that's what Cadillac and Lincoln should go after. Use their old school heritage to their advantage and don't try and copy what others are doing. Make over-sized luxury barges(per dollar). 

How much bigger do you want them to go? It already dwarfs everything that isn't a dually heavy duty truck on the road(and Expedition/Navigator). 

Doesn’t have to be bigger, has to be more luxurious and higher performance.  I actually think they could put 2 SUV’s above Escalde, one that like Bentayga size that is luxury focused and one that is more midsize with high performance.  Bentley and Lambo may each get a 2nd SUV, Ferrari and Aston Martin are getting at least one each, plus the Lagonda SUV, a Maybach SUV hits dealers in 2020, etc.  

If they made something smaller that was more luxurious and more powerful I can already hear you cry that they should have done it with the largest vehicle. 

15 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

If they made something smaller that was more luxurious and more powerful I can already hear you cry that they should have done it with the largest vehicle. 

@smk4565's goal posts are elusive, hard to pin down creatures.
 

3 hours ago, ccap41 said:

If they made something smaller that was more luxurious and more powerful I can already hear you cry that they should have done it with the largest vehicle. 

A G-wagen is Mercedes 3rd largest SUV but is their most expensive.   The Urus is big, but not Escalade big, the Levante is like a mid-size Bentayga is pretty big, but not Escalade big, although a bigger Bentley SUV could be in the works.  The Aston Martin SUV doesn't look that big in prototype.

So I don't see why Cadillac couldn't have a mid-size SUV with a Blackwing V8, or something CT6 sized with luxury above the Escalade.  Maybe just go for one or the other and not both.

I will say I think AMG should do an SUV that starts at $200k, maybe electric is the answer there with like 800 hp.  They can make it a limited run model, make it for 4 years as a halo for the EQ Power vehicles, and surely it would outperform Ferrari's SUV.

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

So I don't see why Cadillac couldn't have a mid-size SUV with a Blackwing V8, or something CT6 sized with luxury above the Escalade.  Maybe just go for one or the other and not both.

I agree.  Cadillac needs to do both.  Also, the CT6 should get the Blackwing V8 as an option.

4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

, and surely it would outperform Ferrari's SUV.

hypotheticals...

On vehicles that dont exist with engines and motors that dont exist with possible future performance numbers that...you guessed it...DONT EXIST!!!

Don Cherry said it best on what I wanna say about your hypotheticals...

14 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

hypotheticals...

On vehicles that dont exist with engines and motors that dont exist with possible future performance numbers that...you guessed it...DONT EXIST!!!

 

Don Cherry said it best on what I wanna say about your hypotheticals...

 

 

Well the Ferrari Purosangue is coming and it is at least going to have the 710 hp V8 they currently have in the F8 and maybe a V12 or hybrid V8.  So it is going to be fast.   And I don't think they'll stop with 1 SUV either, just like Bentley is planning something above the Bentayga, maybe VW green lights a 2nd Lamorbghini SUV as the Urus is their #1 seller.

Mercedes builds the fastest SUV around the Nurburgring, but what they make now won't beat these hypercar SUVs that are on the way, so they'll have to up their game.  They have GLS73 trademarked, which makes me think it is coming, the Maybach GLS is on sale in 2020. I don't think they call it a day when the Maybach GLS comes out, maybe they will, but they could do something as a specialty higher up the range.  I don't think it would be a continuous model, but like a 5 year run and done like the SLR or SLS were.

8 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Well the Ferrari Purosangue is coming and it is at least going to have the 710 hp V8 they currently have in the F8 and maybe a V12 or hybrid V8.  So it is going to be fast.   And I don't think they'll stop with 1 SUV either, just like Bentley is planning something above the Bentayga, maybe VW green lights a 2nd Lamorbghini SUV as the Urus is their #1 seller.

Mercedes builds the fastest SUV around the Nurburgring, but what they make now won't beat these hypercar SUVs that are on the way, so they'll have to up their game.  They have GLS73 trademarked, which makes me think it is coming, the Maybach GLS is on sale in 2020. I don't think they call it a day when the Maybach GLS comes out, maybe they will, but they could do something as a specialty higher up the range.  I don't think it would be a continuous model, but like a 5 year run and done like the SLR or SLS were.

 

I just can't see GM getting in the high performance SUV game...they don't have a unibody RWD/AWD CUV, and it wouldn't make sense to use their generic FWD/transverse engine CUV platform or their full size BOF truck/SUV platform.  

10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Mercedes builds the fastest SUV around the Nurburgring,

And I'd wager that they have three SUVs that are faster around it than their "halo" SUV. 

15 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The Urus is big, but not Escalade big, the Levante is like a mid-size Bentayga is pretty big, but not Escalade big...

Urus overall length : 201.3"
Bentayaga overall length : 202"
Escalade overall length : 203.9"

Those 3 are exactly the same size.

13 hours ago, riviera74 said:

Also, the CT6 should get the Blackwing V8 as an option.

What did I miss? That's precisely the car that engine is going in.

On 4/29/2019 at 10:56 PM, riviera74 said:

One slight change: All FWD Cadillacs should be AWD standard.  The RWD Cadillacs should have AWD as an option.

I agree.. to a degree. At this point.. all Cadillacs should just be AWD. The AWD system is a performance based one.. RWD simply is not necessary at this level considering biases 60% of the torque rearward in tour mode, which gets bumped up to 80% in sport mode.  Some will come in and call it GM de-contenting.. I will point to this and say "How?" In truth once AWD became widespread adaptable, I argued that it should be the only Wheel DRIVE for luxury cars anyway, and that was 10 years ago on this very site.

My hope and dream was for them to kill the 3.6L and have two variants of the 3.0LTT and two variants of the 4.2LTT. Truth be told, it would be in inconsistent and negligent if Cadillac did not kill the NA 3.6L for the CT6. In fact I think the 3.0L TT should be cast so that it can also replace the 3.6 in the XT6 and XT5. This would instantly rejuvenate the powertrain lineup thru out. For the CUVs, they'd get both the 335HP/400lb-ft and 404/400+ lb-ft versions. Point blank Forced Induction should be the only config at Cadillac. Turbo or Super-Charge

2 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

I just can't see GM getting in the high performance SUV game...they don't have a unibody RWD/AWD CUV, and it wouldn't make sense to use their generic FWD/transverse engine CUV platform or their full size BOF truck/SUV platform.  

They really don't need to go that deep into it. I really wish some would go drive a current Escalade.  It truly is a vehicle that, despite its size, is a marvel of handling. My Yukon SLT is basically the same vehicle and it has been leveled out in the rear (lowered) to no longer be hopped up. The handling is phenomenal.. and I can come around corners that even when driving my nieces Challenger RT I get a bit scared taking... despite its lower center of gravity and RWD. I won;t compare it to my V or Z for obvious reasons.. the Alpha platform being what it is.. along with the YBody. Point being.. the Escalade with the 8 Speed  was doing 0-60 in 5.8secs and a 1/4 in 14.4 sec @ 96.8 mph, pulling .77g. This is a 5900lb vehicle. Putting a 100-150 more HP, coupled to the faster shifting 10Speed, lowering it and inch or two.. and U have a pretty crazy performing large luxury SUV.. on the other end.. an XT7 could literally take the original SRX formula (which was essentially a tall STS) and raise a CT6 up a few inches, and add some metal to make it a style equivalent to the XT4

12 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

  on the other end.. an XT7 could literally take the original SRX formula (which was essentially a tall STS) and raise a CT6 up a few inches, and add some metal to make it a style equivalent to the XT4

They won't do that, though..if there is an XT7, it will be just another generic transverse engine crossover...a variation of the Traverse/Enclave.

42 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Urus overall length : 201.3"
Bentayaga overall length : 202"
Escalade overall length : 203.9"

Those 3 are exactly the same size. 

Escalade is taller and wider, though.  Center of gravity probably a foot higher than the European CUVs.  And the Benyagagaga has a 4.0 sec 0-60 and the Urus can accelerate from 0–100 km/h (62 mph) in 3.6 seconds and 0–200 km/h (124 mph) in 12.8 seconds.   I've read rumors the next gen Escalade will finally get an IRS...

10 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

They won't do that, though..if there is an XT7, it will be just another generic transverse engine crossover...a variation of the Traverse/Enclave.

Not convinced of that. In truth I think it is very plausible. 

altho the necxt CUV could be an EV.. which is shown on this chart as a LOW ROOF Lux

I am talking about a 0-60 in 3 seconds, 200+ mph SUV that can match a CTS-V on a race track.  That is the sort of next level stuff you can push into the $300k price range.

Just now, smk4565 said:

I am talking about a 0-60 in 3 seconds, 200+ mph SUV that can match a CTS-V on a race track.  That is the sort of next level stuff you can push into the $300k price range.

I can't see GM playing in that space... too much investment would be needed for too little return.   High volume FWD/transverse engine lease appliances and big BOF SUVs for towing boats is GM's niche.

2 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

I can't see GM playing in that space... too much investment would be needed for too little return.   High volume FWD/transverse engine lease appliances and big BOF SUVs for towing boats is GM's niche.

That could be true, an off roader may cost less in development cost or a super lux SUV could also if you are just going with a Blackwing V8 and just need to put recline flat seats and a refrigerator and tray tables in the backseat area.  I think high luxury is easiest, like the current Maybach approach, then you don’t have massive development cost.

Just now, smk4565 said:

That could be true, an off roader may cost less in development cost or a super lux SUV could also if you are just going with a Blackwing V8 and just need to put recline flat seats and a refrigerator and tray tables in the backseat area.  I think high luxury is easiest, like the current Maybach approach, then you don’t have massive development cost.

Yes, a super bling Escalade Triple Platinum w/ the Blackwing v8,  LWB 2 row, would make a lot of sense for the brand.. 

On 4/30/2019 at 11:10 AM, ccap41 said:

How much bigger do you want them to go? It already dwarfs everything that isn't a dually heavy duty truck on the road(and Expedition/Navigator). 

I think @smk4565 Wants a luxury Hummer rebadged as a Cadillac so he has something real to complain about to offset the terrible G-Wagon.