3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

We also haven't seen the production version of the Celestiq yet, only a concept car with no stats.  So we need to see the the actual proaction car to see if they did get the quality, materials, etc correct and if what they built is worth the price.  

All of those are standards you don’t bestow on Benz, for the record. 

51 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

You can lease a Cadillac for $409 a month, it's on their website.  I don't think you have to be rich to afford that.

You can do that with Benz as well yet…

https://fortune.com/2022/01/12/tesla-rivals-audi-bmw-mercedes-vw-cant-match-ev-volumes/

The dedicated EV brand Mercedes-EQ saw global volumes hit only roughly 49,000 cars for the full year. That's barely any better than Porsche's 41,000 from its sole EV model, the Taycan. BMW meanwhile achieved some 69,000 vehicles, by comparison. 

Perhaps the biggest disappointment came from Audi. Even though it sold more EVs than either of its two domestic rivals with nearly 82,000 vehicles delivered, it failed to keep pace with Tesla since volumes rose only 58%.

Schmidt said the four German carmakers would be better served not trumpeting their growth rates lest they draw too much attention to the figures.  

“It’s nothing they should be shouting about really because their gains are coming from low levels, so you would expect to see a huge rise,” Schmidt said. “It’s a bit of a joke to me, really.” 

https://jalopnik.com/mercedes-sales-drop-as-supply-chain-issues-take-hold-1849163828

“Ongoing supply-chain problems could jeopardize Mercedes’s plan to cut back on entry-level vehicles in order to focus on higher-end cars that deliver bigger profits. Mercedes said a dearth of chips contributed to a 16% decline in sales for the top-end luxury category.

“EV sales were a bright spot in Mercedes’s report, with its EQ sales nearly doubling to 23,500 units compared to the same period last year. The first half of the year saw the brand’s EV sales rising to 45,400 units.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

the Lyriq by itself, has a buyers list and sold out with at least 23 000 units as compared to Mercedes' combined EV sales in the US of 23 000 units.

But @smk4565 says that 23 000 units for Cadillac is not enough...

Down vote this too @smk4565, you are only reinforcing my words to you that you are pathetic...

Joke is that Mercedes doesnt know what the phoque to do.

Cut down on down market cars to sell higher end stuff, but that aint happening because high end stuff aint selling nearly enough.

Continue on with the low end stuff for more volume but those arent selling either.

EVs sales have gone up globally, but not nearly enough to make money or gain market share.  KIAs, Lucids and even the one and only Cadillac EV are outshining the combined Mercedes EVs in all KINDS of metrics...

But yeah...hold on to that revenue shell game @smk4565, I have presented you will all kinds of problems for Mercedes going forward.  Ignore it all you want, its going to be a rough decade for your Mercedes fanboyism...

2 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

https://carbuzz.com/news/bad-news-mercedes-amg-one-hypercar-not-coming-to-usa

Bad News: Mercedes-AMG One Hypercar Not Coming To USA

JUN. 02, 2022 9:16 AM ETBY KARL FURLONG INDUSTRY NEWS / 31 COMMENTS

Americans will have to settle for an AMG GT Black Series.

After a painfully long wait, Mercedes finally took the covers off the production version of the AMG One hypercar this week. Everything we hoped for and then some, even Mercedes itself admitted that the idea to move forward with the AMG One was a drunken mistake 

 

 

It can't pass our emissions here and it probably doesn't make financial sense to build it, but they did it.  A Formula 1 engine in a road car is probably the best piece of engineering ever for a road car.  If anything it shows how Mercedes doesn't just do what the bean counters say makes sense, I applaud them for building it.  And am waiting for someone to make a car faster around a track than it.  Your favorite brand won't build a faster car.

2 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

It can't pass our emissions here and it probably doesn't make financial sense to build it, but they did it.  A Formula 1 engine in a road car is probably the best piece of engineering ever for a road car.  If anything it shows how Mercedes doesn't just do what the bean counters say makes sense, I applaud them for building it.  And am waiting for someone to make a car faster around a track than it.  Your favorite brand won't build a faster car.

You sure know how to make a turd look Iike chocolate. 
 

You also assume it’s his favorite brand while acting like it’s some big damn accomplishment in getting the AMG One completed after SIX YEARS of “it’s going to be here” only to have be sold elsewhere because the best or nothing couldn’t get it to pass emissions. Just think about that for a second since you ignored literally everything else that he presented here as a fact. 

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

All of those are standards you don’t bestow on Benz, for the record. 

You can do that with Benz as well yet…

I always wait for an actual production version with price to really evaluate something.  Other than maybe looks, you either like it or you don't.  For all we know the Celestiq will have 1,000 hp for $100,000 and maybe it's an insane deal.

And sort of\, an A220 lease is $439, GLA $469, CLA is $499.  

XT4 is $409 a month lease, CT4 is $419, CT5 is $479.

The Cadillacs are cheaper but either way you don't really need to be "rich" to drive any of those.  

26 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

It can't pass our emissions here and it probably doesn't make financial sense to build it, but they did it.  A Formula 1 engine in a road car is probably the best piece of engineering ever for a road car.

It cant pass emissions therefore it sucks for a road car. 

US emissions SHOULD be strict.  Euro emissions should be stricter as European cities had and still have a greater smog problem than American cities do.

The fact that the AMG ONE cant pass US emissions just proves that Mercedes engineering is sub par to every one else.

Not very well engineered to be driven daily on public roads...  Spewing all kinds of polluting emissions.  Like their diesels.  Their engineering coudnt make it work. 

"In order to preserve the unique character of its Formula 1 powertrain, we have concluded that meeting US road standards would significantly compromise its performance and its overall driving character. We have taken the strategic decision to offer the car for road usage in Europe, where it meets applicable regulations."

26 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

If anything it shows how Mercedes doesn't just do what the bean counters say makes sense, I applaud them for building it.

They needed that R&D money for EVs.  Mercedes execs even admitted to the AMG ONE being a mistake...

Their EVs lack design and best of the best engineering so their specs could outshine others, but clearly all that money and energy went into that drunken mistake of a mess...

 "even Mercedes itself admitted that the idea to move forward with the AMG One was a drunken mistake - that's how challenging it was to make a road-legal car with a Formula One engine.'"

26 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

And am waiting for someone to make a car faster around a track than it.  Your favorite brand won't build a faster car.

My favorite brand (2 of them) both went out of service a while ago.  

Now if we are talking about the Corvette... well...

Chevy engineers took a race engine and fit that one into the new C8 Corvette. All 5.5 liters of V8 power and made THAT emissions legal. One that could be driven ANYWHERE in the word DESPITE it being a V8 with a huuuuuuge displacement of 5.5 liters...

And all for a FRACTION of the engineering costs at a FRACTION of the time, all the while NOT draining corporate of the necessary funds for the future... 

And Im betting, that the Z06, down 400 horsepower from the AMG ONE and significantly heavier, will be at very close times at the 'Ring as compared to the AMG ONE.  Because the AMG ONE is NOT a F1 car, but a road car therefore it wont handle like a race car, it will handle like an overpriced road car.   When a dedicated Z06 track car comes along, without the luxuries of a daily driven road car, it will be FASTER around the 'Ring than the AMG ONE.

And Ill be laughing at you when my prediction comes true!!! 

PS: all that engine tech and turbos and electric motors just to only make 1000 horsepower... 

Albeit it is from a 1.6 liter engine.

1.6 liters and not emissions compliant.

A phoquing ANCIENT IRON BLOCK supercharged mopar 6.2 liter V8 Demon engine makes about that much horsepower and even THAT is emissions compliant... 

What a joke the AMG ONE truly is!!! 

13 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I always wait for an actual production version with price to really evaluate something.  Other than maybe looks, you either like it or you don't.  For all we know the Celestiq will have 1,000 hp for $100,000 and maybe it's an insane deal.

And sort of\, an A220 lease is $439, GLA $469, CLA is $499.  

XT4 is $409 a month lease, CT4 is $419, CT5 is $479.

The Cadillacs are cheaper but either way you don't really need to be "rich" to drive any of those.  

Wanna fake it, buy a Mercedes.

20 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

You also assume it’s his favorite brand

lol

Its in my name and my pic...

Oldsmobile and Pontiac.

And I dont hide it that they went away. Like he is trying to shame me somehow.  

Pathetic he truly is. 

17 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I always wait for an actual production version with price to really evaluate something.

Given your years of crowing about the AMG ONE that just hit the streets in production, that is just a patented lie. Add in the year or so of hype over their EV sedans just to end up with two jelly beans that you have since made excuses for. You give credence and praise to Benz that you simply do not allow with anyone else on this side of the pond, and that’s given the same parameters of whether it’s a concept or final production ready. Just full stop on your claim to say otherwise. 

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

https://fortune.com/2022/01/12/tesla-rivals-audi-bmw-mercedes-vw-cant-match-ev-volumes/

 

The dedicated EV brand Mercedes-EQ saw global volumes hit only roughly 49,000 cars for the full year. That's barely any better than Porsche's 41,000 from its sole EV model, the Taycan. BMW meanwhile achieved some 69,000 vehicles, by comparison. 

Perhaps the biggest disappointment came from Audi. Even though it sold more EVs than either of its two domestic rivals with nearly 82,000 vehicles delivered, it failed to keep pace with Tesla since volumes rose only 58%.

Schmidt said the four German carmakers would be better served not trumpeting their growth rates lest they draw too much attention to the figures.  

“It’s nothing they should be shouting about really because their gains are coming from low levels, so you would expect to see a huge rise,” Schmidt said. “It’s a bit of a joke to me, really.” 

 

https://jalopnik.com/mercedes-sales-drop-as-supply-chain-issues-take-hold-1849163828

“Ongoing supply-chain problems could jeopardize Mercedes’s plan to cut back on entry-level vehicles in order to focus on higher-end cars that deliver bigger profits. Mercedes said a dearth of chips contributed to a 16% decline in sales for the top-end luxury category.

“EV sales were a bright spot in Mercedes’s report, with its EQ sales nearly doubling to 23,500 units compared to the same period last year. The first half of the year saw the brand’s EV sales rising to 45,400 units.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------

the Lyriq by itself, has a buyers list and sold out with at least 23 000 units as compared to Mercedes' combined EV sales in the US of 23 000 units.

But @smk4565 says that 23 000 units for Cadillac is not enough...

Down vote this too @smk4565, you are only reinforcing my words to you that you are pathetic...

 

 

 

Cadillac hasn't delivered any Lyriqs yet.  They have sold zero YTD per GM's Q2 sales report.   You are comparing their future orders to what Mercedes already sold.  Also they aren't near the same price or same segment, so it's meaningless anyway.

20,000  units a year for a mid-size luxury SUV would be among the worst sellers in the segment, it would be on pace with the XT6's sales volume this year.  Model Y did 161,000 last year and is up this year.  200,000 a year should be no problem for them and they might hit 250,000 given the sales increases Tesla is seeing.  And that's just in the USA.  Tesla sold over 50,000 Model Y's in China in June 2022, it was the #1 selling SUV in the country, is #2 for the year.  It's outselling the Honda CR-V there.  

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a38054133/2023-corvette-z06-chassis-engineering/

After two years of watching the Corvette Racing C8.R dominate the track, General Motors has finally pulled the cover off a proper roadgoing variant. That car is the new C8 Corvette Z06, which shares a similar 5.5-liter flat-plane V-8 engine with the C8.R, known as the LT6. And while that 670-hp piece of naturally-aspirated art deserves much of the attention, the new Z06 also packs plenty of racing pedigree under the bodywork. In order to learn more, Road & Track sat down with the people behind the new Z06 to further discuss the improvements made to the car’s chassis

----------------------------------

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a38224296/chevy-corvette-z06-gt3r-revealed/

Chevy Corvette Z06 GT3.R Customer Race Car Will Be Available in 2024

• Chevrolet Racing will offer a Z06 GT3.R customer race car starting in 2024.
• It uses the same aluminum chassis as the C8 Z06 road car and a modified version of the 5.5-liter flat-plane-crank V-8.
• Customers will be able to race in the IMSA WeatherTech Series and other GT3 racing series with the Z06 GT3.R.

The Chevrolet C8.R race car’s 5.5-liter flat-plane-crank V-8 engine laid the groundwork for the engine used in the new C8 Corvette Z06, which returns to its purist heritage for 2023. And things are only heating up for Corvette racing because the C8.R will be replaced by this new Z06 GT3.R starting for the 2024 season, and a customer racing version will be available, too, just like BMW, Ferrari, McLaren, and Porsche, to name a few, have done for years.

------------------------------------

And that is the Z06 to be faster than the AMG ONE around The 'Ring costing millions less to buy and race...

What a joke Mercedes marketing and engineering are at this juncture.

Wanna fake it, buy a Mercedes. Wanna be real, drive and race a Corvette. 

30 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

You sure know how to make a turd look Iike chocolate. 
 

You also assume it’s his favorite brand while acting like it’s some big damn accomplishment in getting the AMG One completed after SIX YEARS of “it’s going to be here” only to have be sold elsewhere because the best or nothing couldn’t get it to pass emissions. Just think about that for a second since you ignored literally everything else that he presented here as a fact. 

Doesn't matter what his favorite brand is, because no brand is going to beat it on a track.  And it is an accomplishment, it has a Formula 1 engine in it, there are only 4 companies that even make an F1 engine, and only 1 had the guts to put it in a road car.  

Just now, smk4565 said:

because no brand is going to beat it on a track.

The Corvette will.

Porsche and Ferrari too.

ALL EQ sales and they barely beat the Taycan...

20 000 orders to be filled and delivered shortly. And when that happens in the near future, EQ EVs will lose that much more market share...

Wanna fake it, buy a Mercedes!!! 

The AMG ONE is a complete failure.  

The one market that would get exposure and it doesnt get sold here because it cant meet emissions. Despite it being a 1.6 liter engine aided by electric motors... 

Producing only 1000 horsepower.  

Like I said, an iron block ancient V8 produces about that much horsepower, without the aid of electric motors, it got humongous displacement at 6.2 liters and that even meets emissions...  

Race engines have tight tolerances.  Because of that, its foolish to make them into road cars.  road cars need to be daily driven and not taken apart after each race to tighten up tolerances again.

All other OEMs KNEW THAT and were NOT foolish trying to ANSWER AND SOLVE a KNOWN engineering obstacle THAT NOBODY asked to be solved to begin with...

Mercedes didnt even solve that riddle either...  

Money and time and energy FOOLISHLY spent...  

Wanna fake it, buy a Mercedes!!! 

36 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

200,000 a year should be no problem for them and they might hit 250,000 given the sales increases Tesla is seeing.

This stupid argument again? I tell you what. Show us ONE Benz model that currently EVER enjoys six digit sales in one year and then you can whine that someone like Cadillac needs to sell "X" number of any model in order to compete with at least ONE brand (Mercedes) that can't sell that many of ANY model in one year here. Just an asinine argument you always resort back to and you get shot down for it each time.

25 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

This stupid argument again? I tell you what. Show us ONE Benz model that currently EVER enjoys six digit sales in one year and then you can whine that someone like Cadillac needs to sell "X" number of any model in order to compete with at least ONE brand (Mercedes) that can't sell that many of ANY model in one year here. Just an asinine argument you always resort back to and you get shot down for it each time.

 

 

No luxury brand will sell a car that does volume like the Model Y.  That is what should have the traditional OEM's concerned.  The Model Y at the pace they are on could be a top 10 selling vehicle in the USA, and the Model 3 could be also.  The GLC and GLE can do about 70,000 units each in a year, BMW X3 and X5 can usually do numbers like that, Lexus RX over 100k.    I am. not saying the Lyriq needs to do 200,000, but they should be able to do 50,000.  And stuff like the Equinox EV needs to be a 250,000 a year vehicle.  Right now, Mach-E, Kia EV6, Ionic 5, iD4, etc are all sort of niche cars doing 25,000 sales a year each, that isn't a lot of production in a market of 17 million sales per year under normal conditions.

Mary Barra is the one that said GM will sell more EV's than Tesla by mid-decade, so that's 3-4 years away.  Tesla will have a 2 million vehicle year capacity within a couple years.  So if GM is going to top 2 million EV's a year they need 4 vehicles at 250k units a year, and 10 at 100k a year.   That's a lot of volume EV's, 1 or 2 of them have to come from Cadillac.

Just now, smk4565 said:

No luxury brand will sell a car that does volume like the Model Y.

DUUUH! That's my entire point! Benz doesn't do it. Lexus doesn't do it. BMW and Audi sure as hell don't do it. No LUXURY make will sell a car in that volume, which begs the following question. If you believe that is the case, then why in the hell are you talking about Cadillac needing to move that kind of volume? I mean, are these NOT your EXACT words?

"20,000  units a year for a mid-size luxury SUV would be among the worst sellers in the segment, it would be on pace with the XT6's sales volume this year.  Model Y did 161,000 last year and is up this year.  200,000 a year should be no problem for them and they might hit 250,000 given the sales increases Tesla is seeing.  And that's just in the USA.  Tesla sold over 50,000 Model Y's in China in June 2022, it was the #1 selling SUV in the country, is #2 for the year."

56 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

DUUUH! That's my entire point! Benz doesn't do it. Lexus doesn't do it. BMW and Audi sure as hell don't do it. No LUXURY make will sell a car in that volume, which begs the following question. If you believe that is the case, then why in the hell are you talking about Cadillac needing to move that kind of volume? I mean, are these NOT your EXACT words?

 

"20,000  units a year for a mid-size luxury SUV would be among the worst sellers in the segment, it would be on pace with the XT6's sales volume this year.  Model Y did 161,000 last year and is up this year.  200,000 a year should be no problem for them and they might hit 250,000 given the sales increases Tesla is seeing.  And that's just in the USA.  Tesla sold over 50,000 Model Y's in China in June 2022, it was the #1 selling SUV in the country, is #2 for the year."

Because the XT6's sales volume sucks.  The Lyriq should aim to double that.  Even if they do 50k units here it would still be behind most mid-size luxury SUVs.  But if they can do 50k here, and 50k in China, that gets them 100k units a year, that would be pretty good I think.   

36 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Because the XT6's sales volume sucks.  The Lyriq should aim to double that.  Even if they do 50k units here it would still be behind most mid-size luxury SUVs.  But if they can do 50k here, and 50k in China, that gets them 100k units a year, that would be pretty good I think.   

How did you make my exact point on one post and then miss that exact same point completely here? FFS. Your numbers (in bold) were US figures only which is what I am talking about. You’re now trying to shift it over to worldwide numbers or numbers in other countries like that has one thing to do with the numbers mentioned in bold. Again with the bar making. 

45 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

How did you make my exact point on one post and then miss that exact same point completely here? FFS. Your numbers (in bold) were US figures only which is what I am talking about. You’re now trying to shift it over to worldwide numbers or numbers in other countries like that has one thing to do with the numbers mentioned in bold. Again with the bar making. 

GM's CEO says they are going to outsell Tesla, and I just looked it up and she said in the USA by 2025.  Would be more ambitious to state worldwide, but GM isn't in Europe anymore.

https://fortune.com/2022/07/20/general-motors-tesla-electric-vehicle-sales/

 GM told Fortune Magazine here they plan to build 1 million EV's in the USA by end of 2025 and 1 million in China.    So there is 2 million number they need to be on par with or perhaps beat Tesla.  But to sell 2 million cars you need some big volume sellers.  Personally I hope they pull it off, we need more EVs on the road and I am sick of Tesla sales going up 40-50% per year without even introducing any new models.  Someone has to challenge them.

10 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

GM's CEO says they are going to outsell Tesla, and I just looked it up and she said in the USA by 2025.  Would be more ambitious to state worldwide, but GM isn't in Europe anymore.

https://fortune.com/2022/07/20/general-motors-tesla-electric-vehicle-sales/

 GM told Fortune Magazine here they plan to build 1 million EV's in the USA by end of 2025 and 1 million in China.    So there is 2 million number they need to be on par with or perhaps beat Tesla.  But to sell 2 million cars you need some big volume sellers.  Personally I hope they pull it off, we need more EVs on the road and I am sick of Tesla sales going up 40-50% per year without even introducing any new models.  Someone has to challenge them.

 

And, for the last time, has not one thing to do with what I said versus your original statement about Cadillac needing to sell in a certain volume despite the fact that NO luxury maker sells in that volume. I am not sure what you're not getting here but it has squat to with what Bara says about GM. In this context, Cadillac does not = GM.

Cool new design pics on this car on their Instagram account.

Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/generalmotorsdesign/

Seems the first test mules are off the pre-production line.

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/mark-reuss_ev-activity-6967922445248839680-Jykq?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_android

I just can't imagine this will look all that great... I hope it does or I hope that I change my mind but this looks awkward as fck as of now. 

30 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I just can't imagine this will look all that great... I hope it does or I hope that I change my mind but this looks awkward as fck as of now. 

I really like it more and more as I see it. I think GM will have a major hit on their hands. Better looking than the Porsche competitor EV or anything Mercedes has. Audi EVs look good, but history of reliability keeps me from them. Japanese has nothing of interest in this category and Korea has not gotten their version out under the Genesis line yet. China I have no interest in buying from.

This looks awkward and yet futuristic to me.