2018 Cadillac XTS Puts on A CT6 Face

1 hour ago, Suaviloquent said:

I think this XTS refresh will keep it going for a many years still. I like the look a lot, just not the profile though.

The voice of rational thinking and reason rises from the dead.

Welcome back, I missed having you around.

4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Exactly, "cars" that don't sell.  Crossovers and trucks make up 67% of the auto industry now.  If you have crossovers, you make money, you can pay for R&D and advertising, etc.

So Cadillac should follow Subaru and define itself by crossovers...so much for standard of the world and leading.

"don't sell" = 33% of the industry. LOL.
Yet SMK wants a handful of convertibles in every brand (6%).

13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Exactly, "cars" that don't sell.  Crossovers and trucks make up 67% of the auto industry now.  If you have crossovers, you make money, you can pay for R&D and advertising, etc.

The thing is that U don't need a billion different sizes of every car when one can can cover two spaces. The Chevy line-Up as it is require just one more CUV because of the complete down size of the Equinox.. which BTW.. can be optioned to over $40K. After that inclusion of a "Trailblazer," which should be simply cribbed from Oz.. Chevy will have a perfect CUV/SUV line-up. There is no need to have a bunch of vehicles completely in another's space. I have complained about the XTS for that reason.. being the same size as the CT6 (kinda) while being the same price as the CTS.. (kinda).. Cadillac addressed that complaint by essentially using the XTS for it fleet duties while retaining resale for the others. Smart move... as I don't want to see the CT6 out in mass as a Black car. Furthermore this issue I bring up is exactly the reason why U.. and many others spoke against the A-Class showing up. The Benz small car line will now have the A-Class, CLA, and essentially the C-Class occupying the same space in CONSUMER'S MINDS.. they will all now be the "Baby Benzes." Talk about confusion. Frankly.. the Benz line should have started at the C-Class.. and left it there. I hope, in the wake of car sales drop off, JDN has killed it in his mind for a Cadillac smaller than the ATS.. unless it is a niche Sports coupe or Hatch.

Lastly.. I think the big thing with GM.. as I have stated many times before in relation to REBADGING.. their base or donor cars are quite frankly on the same level as most premium vehicles. Example is the new Malibu.. which.. if U yanked the name and put on blinders.. could easily be mistaken for an Audi or Lexus in the fit and finish.. driving.. again.. blinders and a cover-up of the badge to kill bias. A new Equinox Premiere is every bit as competition and luxuriously appointed as a GLK. This is fact... Using such a donor car for Cadillac would not be the same as using the Cavalier for the Cimmaron. It really wouldn't be.

9 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

The thing is that U don't need a billion different sizes of every car when one can can cover two spaces. The Chevy line-Up as it is require just one more CUV because of the complete down size of the Equinox.. which BTW.. can be optioned to over $40K. After that inclusion of a "Trailblazer," which should be simply cribbed from Oz.. Chevy will have a perfect CUV/SUV line-up. 

It would have to be restyled for the US, though...the Asian Colorado-based Trailblazer is hideous in side profile, IMO...would need new rear doors and side quarter windows..

On 6/24/2017 at 8:57 AM, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

It would have to be restyled for the US, though...the Asian Colorado-based Trailblazer is hideous in side profile, IMO...would need new rear doors and side quarter windows..

I think it would be perfect.. and the only thing for America tastes needed would be a front DETACHABLE bottom spoiler/valence for the fascia.. just to fill it out. And it could be optional

6 hours ago, balthazar said:

"don't sell" = 33% of the industry. LOL.
Yet SMK wants a handful of convertibles in every brand (6%).

I would be surprised if six percent of the cars were convertibles.

Around here in Ohio you can see a parking lot with 350 cars in it and Zero convertibles.

Instead of shaming Cadillac, we should be grateful GM builds the Cascadia and Camaro.

1 hour ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

 

Lastly.. I think the big thing with GM.. as I have stated many times before in relation to REBADGING.. their base or donor cars are quite frankly on the same level as most premium vehicles. Example is the new Malibu.. which.. if U yanked the name and put on blinders.. could easily be mistaken for an Audi or Lexus in the fit and finish.. driving.. again.. blinders and a cover-up of the badge to kill bias. A new Equinox Premiere is every bit as competition and luxuriously appointed as a GLK. This is fact... Using such a donor car for Cadillac would not be the same as using the Cavalier for the Cimmaron. It really wouldn't be.

Quoted for truth...

...and GM sells the Maibu in top trim for fifteen grand less than a comparable Audi or Lexus.

Parts and repair will be much cheaper.

 Chevy is getting a version of the Acadia as their middle crossover.  Chevy has room for another crossover but really GMC could use an off road or off road looking SUV or crossover.

Cadillac needs a minimum 3 crossovers.  Whether you are selling t-shirts, French fry orders or crossovers you have to have small, medium and large.  The Escalade serves at the XL, but there could be room for an xtra small too.

The 2018 Camry blows away the Malibu and everyone else in that segment.  And I always thought the Camry was a miserable car, but the new one is best inclass power, best in class fuel economy, it has like 6 trim levels, the interior looks good, and we know it is reliable because it is a Camry.  Supposedly it even drives well now.

Correction to my earlier post, I forgot the Fusion sport has the most horsepower in the segment, the Camry's 301 is 2nd I think.

45 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

 Chevy is getting a version of the Acadia as their middle crossover.  Chevy has room for another crossover but really GMC could use an off road or off road looking SUV or crossover.

Cadillac needs a minimum 3 crossovers.  Whether you are selling t-shirts, French fry orders or crossovers you have to have small, medium and large.  The Escalade serves at the XL, but there could be room for an xtra small too.

The 2018 Camry blows away the Malibu and everyone else in that segment.  And I always thought the Camry was a miserable car, but the new one is best inclass power, best in class fuel economy, it has like 6 trim levels, the interior looks good, and we know it is reliable because it is a Camry.  Supposedly it even drives well now.

Camry is competitive with but does not blow away...

On 6/23/2017 at 6:56 PM, balthazar said:

OFTEN (but not always) the same parties who say 'Cadillac needs to be Cadillac' are the same parties who also call recent past decades 'the dark days'.
NOT poking at you, 442, other have said these things well before you did and with a lot more vigor.
My take is, they often have no idea what they mean.

Its all good.

In the future, if you want to poke at me, you could.

You Balthy, you always back up your views with almost pin point accuracy most of the time.

You feel like setting me straight...go right ahead I say. I learn new lessons this way!

On 6/23/2017 at 7:22 PM, balthazar said:

with who??

The best I could do with that is BECAUSE of downsizing and BECAUSE of computer aided designs such as Chryco's Cab Forward design (I know this cab forward design PREDATED CAD and Chrysler inc) alonf with FWD revolution that new criteria was needed.

Like your El Camino example and the 1974 Deville example....

Cars like the 1974 Deville do not exist anymore.

The longest Escalade is nowhere near as wide as any pre-1977 downsized American car. And I dont think the Escalade is as long also...

A 1976 El Camino...its a long car....but what good does that do if its classified as a fullsized car (or intermiadiate as per 1970s rules) when it probably has the same amount of interior space as a 2017 Chevy Cruze?

Dont forget the Cruze is not only THE NORM of today's 2017 reality, but the Cruze is also a compact car.

(Per 1970s rules...is a  Cruze a subcompact?)

OK....how many cars in 2017 are as large and wide as a 1974 Impala?

That definition of large class does not exist anymore!!!

Hell...how many cars are as large and wide as the downsized 1977 Impala?

Not even the mighty S-Class from Mercedes Benz Im willing to bet!!!

So yeah...I think that going to this new way of classing cars may have its own flaws, I believe it has compensated well enough for the change of the engineering realities and the size of cars and their interior space in 2017 better than had we stayed with the status quo that started to change in the mid-1970s...

Coincidentally, computers started to help engineers design their cars shortly after the down-sizing...

PS: downsizing was a political and social must in the mid-1970s...

Much like what we are facing today with almost the same reasons and those reasons are OIL and the MIDDLE EAST!!!

What does that have to do with car classification?

Everything is intertwined...but we shouldnt be afraid to get away from the status quo....evolution is a good thing...

Quote

The longest Escalade is nowhere near as wide as any pre-1977 downsized American car. And I dont think the Escalade is as long also...

I assume you meant 'nowhere near as long'. Escalade ESV is 224" overall (Escalade is 204").  I had a '65 Bonneville 4-dr hardtop for a while, it was 221".  However, the width thing is correct : Escalade is 74" wide, my '59 Buick is a commanding 81".  Nothing like 66" of front seat hip room and no console! A La Crosse gives you a paltry 54.8" (minus the 12-16" of console, of course; make that more like 40"!)  So now I have a Buick with 66" of hip room but the new "full-size" Buick has 40". A chin-scratcher.

Quote

A 1976 El Camino...its a long car....but what good does that do if its classified as a fullsized car (or intermiadiate as per 1970s rules) when it probably has the same amount of interior space as a 2017 Chevy Cruze?

That's my point- who cares how much interior cubic volume it has? One still has to pilot/ park/ parking deck/ garage it- who's parallel parking based on interior volume?  According to Mobility Lab, about 85% of the cars on American roads are used to transport only one person. IE: is interior volume really tangible for MOST drivers?

Some visual aids to illustrate the EPA's 'formula' :

http://jalopnik.com/everything-thats-ridiculous-about-the-epas-vehicle-clas-1660382740

I don't know if it is down sizing, but shift in preference.  Look a 90s Corolla or Civic compared to a 2005 compared to now.  The current Civic looks huge compared to an old one.  Look at a Cavalier parked next to a Cruze, huge difference.  So some segments they are making cars bigger, but fun size cars are just disappearing.  

19 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I don't know if it is down sizing, but shift in preference.  Look a 90s Corolla or Civic compared to a 2005 compared to now.  The current Civic looks huge compared to an old one.  Look at a Cavalier parked next to a Cruze, huge difference.  So some segments they are making cars bigger, but fun size cars are just disappearing.  

Depends on what you mean by fun size...but the bug eye Sprite is not going back into mass production.

...and actually I think in a few years I will buy another Miata...4th generation which is the current car.

So long as that stays in production I am a happy guy.

26 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I assume you meant 'nowhere near as long'. Escalade ESV is 224" overall (Escalade is 204").  I had a '65 Bonneville 4-dr hardtop for a while, it was 221".

I meant it as "I think the Escalade ESV may be an inch or so shorter than the 1974 Deville, but I aint sure and if the Escalade ESV happens to be a tad longer then I am not that surprised either"

Your point of view is logical!

Give me 24 hours so I could think of a logical counter argument.

OK, Buick media says the 2016 LaCrosse EPA interior volume is 99 cubic feet but the "passenger volume" is 101.7 CF.
If you do the math, it calculates out to 97.7 CF. According to the wikipedia page COMBINED interior & cargo volume for sedans of 85-99 CF is a "subcompact", yet other online sites say the '16 LaC was "full-size". Something's off....

For context's sake, my '59 coupe interior volume is 111 CF, but it has notoriously low headroom due to not having dropped footwells up front. Exterior height is only 54".

- - - - -

1975 Impala interior cubic footage : 98.7. It has better headroom than my '59, but is down on hip room by almost 7 inches up front (59.3"), tho it only lost 1.3" in overall width vs. the '59. Last DTS was 107.6.

12 minutes ago, balthazar said:

OK, Buick media says the 2016 LaCrosse EPA interior volume is 99 cubic feet but the "passenger volume" is 101.7 CF.
If you do the math, it calculates out to 97.7 CF. According to the wikipedia page COMBINED interior & cargo volume for sedans of 85-99 CF is a "subcompact", yet other online sites say the '16 LaC was "full-size". Something's off....

For context's sake, my '59 coupe interior volume is 111 CF, but it has notoriously low headroom due to not having dropped footwells up front. Exterior height is only 54".

 

Something is indeed off...

Well a Maybach S-class has 120 cubic feet of interior space, but now a days when people want interior space they buy an SUV.   I bet a lot of people that walk into a Buick showroom find the Encore roomier than a LaCrosse just because of the body shape, it plays tricks on people's minds.

8 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Well a Maybach S-class has 120 cubic feet of interior space, but now a days when people want interior space they buy an SUV.   I bet a lot of people that walk into a Buick showroom find the Encore roomier than a LaCrosse just because of the body shape, it plays tricks on people's minds.

Maybach S class is an extremely small portion of overall vehicle sales.  Not really sure what people think when they buy cars...in the United States we have 330 million people and 220 million private vehicles.  Probably impossible to generalize much about the public at large in this case.

11 hours ago, balthazar said:

- - - - -

1975 Impala interior cubic footage : 98.7. It has better headroom than my '59, but is down on hip room by almost 7 inches up front (59.3"), tho it only lost 1.3" in overall width vs. the '59. Last DTS was 107.6.

 

I wonder if that is from side impact collision standard changes regarding Impala hip room.

Only 6 more CF than a s-550?? (114 CF). That's a crap-ton of extra money for a few duffel bags of space.

My '59 has 1.5-in more total legroom than the S-550 -as a coupe- on a 1.5-in shorter wheelbase.

- - - - -

Horse- I thought of that also, I'll measure my B-59 door thickness but they are plenty thick- I don't think that's it. There's plenty of room for side impact guards. GM started putting them in ahead of the federal reg IIRC: 1970- and I have access to a P-70 I can measure. Or was there a standard that mandated more space between the seat & door?

20 hours ago, smk4565 said:

 

The 2018 Camry blows away the Malibu and everyone else in that segment.  And I always thought the Camry was a miserable car, but the new one is best inclass power, best in class fuel economy, it has like 6 trim levels, the interior looks good, and we know it is reliable because it is a Camry.  Supposedly it even drives well now.

Reliable because its a Camry.. GTFO of here.. I won't even start on my issues when I had one.. and why I truly hate Toyota. I won't even remind U of the reason why my neighbor just garaged his and bought a new Acadia. 

HP.. HP is irrelevant in this day and age if it doesn't move the car any faster. FOR ONCE.. for ONCE... I will use your bitch-ass 0-60 metric.. and say that as far as I have read from MT and C&D.. the new Camry, despite its 306HP.. is no faster than the Malibu 2.0L Turbo with 50 less HP and almost equal torque.. Why?? Because like most Toyotas they did very little with the platform in switching models. The Camry is still 3300-3600 lbs.. the top Malibu is 3,280 lb. 

21 hours ago, smk4565 said:

 Chevy is getting a version of the Acadia as their middle crossover.  Chevy has room for another crossover but really GMC could use an off road or off road looking SUV or crossover.

Cadillac needs a minimum 3 crossovers.  Whether you are selling t-shirts, French fry orders or crossovers you have to have small, medium and large.  The Escalade serves at the XL, but there could be room for an xtra small too.

The 2018 Camry blows away the Malibu and everyone else in that segment.  And I always thought the Camry was a miserable car, but the new one is best inclass power, best in class fuel economy, it has like 6 trim levels, the interior looks good, and we know it is reliable because it is a Camry.  Supposedly it even drives well now.

There is nothing exciting about any of the mid-size segment. They're all competent cars now that the Avenger and old Malibu are gone. There isn't a bad mid-size out there, they're all "above average".   Most Camries will be sold with the 4-cylinder.  As far as your best in class list is concerned - Honda is releasing the 2018 Accord on July 14th, so I expect Camry's best in class crown to lose a few gems. 

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

Only 6 more CF than a s-550?? (114 CF). That's a crap-ton of extra money for a few duffel bags of space.

My '59 has 1.5-in more total legroom than the S-550 -as a coupe- on a 1.5-in shorter wheelbase.

- - - - -

Horse- I thought of that also, I'll measure my B-59 door thickness but they are plenty thick- I don't think that's it. There's plenty of room for side impact guards. GM started putting them in ahead of the federal reg IIRC: 1970- and I have access to a P-70 I can measure. Or was there a standard that mandated more space between the seat & door?

Not sure of any additional requirements...

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

There is nothing exciting about any of the mid-size segment. They're all competent cars now that the Avenger and old Malibu are gone. There isn't a bad mid-size out there, they're all "above average".   Most Camries will be sold with the 4-cylinder.  As far as your best in class list is concerned - Honda is releasing the 2018 Accord on July 14th, so I expect Camry's best in class crown to lose a few gems. 

Actually it pains me greatly to say it and even more greatly to admit it, but Fusion Sport for what it is...is actually kind of impressive.

2 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Reliable because its a Camry.. GTFO of here.. I won't even start on my issues when I had one.. and why I truly hate Toyota. I won't even remind U of the reason why my neighbor just garaged his and bought a new Acadia. 

HP.. HP is irrelevant in this day and age if it doesn't move the car any faster. FOR ONCE.. for ONCE... I will use your bitch-ass 0-60 metric.. and say that as far as I have read from MT and C&D.. the new Camry, despite its 306HP.. is no faster than the Malibu 2.0L Turbo with 50 less HP and almost equal torque.. Why?? Because like most Toyotas they did very little with the platform in switching models. The Camry is still 3300-3600 lbs.. the top Malibu is 3,280 lb. 

Malibu is also better looking IMHO, although I lack your hatred of the Camry.

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

Only 6 more CF than a s-550?? (114 CF). That's a crap-ton of extra money for a few duffel bags of space.

My '59 has 1.5-in more total legroom than the S-550 -as a coupe- on a 1.5-in shorter wheelbase.

- - - - -

 

It is also multiple orders of magnitude better looking than the rather bland S class.

I ment Envision before when I said Encore about people thinking an Envision is roomier than a LaCrosse.  Buyers see crossovers, even small ones as more room than a full size sedan.  

Every mid-size sedan is pretty good now, but the Camry hybrid beats the Volt by 10 mpg when the Volt isn't charged ahead of time.   That is pretty crazy, and exciting because 50 mpg is the new standard for the mid-size segment, you'll see everyone there within a couple years.   

51 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I ment Envision before when I said Encore about people thinking an Envision is roomier than a LaCrosse.  Buyers see crossovers, even small ones as more room than a full size sedan.  

Every mid-size sedan is pretty good now, but the Camry hybrid beats the Volt by 10 mpg when the Volt isn't charged ahead of time.   That is pretty crazy, and exciting because 50 mpg is the new standard for the mid-size segment, you'll see everyone there within a couple years.   

Toyota does have impressive Hybrid battery technology, one of  things I like about it.

57 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I ment Envision before when I said Encore about people thinking an Envision is roomier than a LaCrosse.  Buyers see crossovers, even small ones as more room than a full size sedan.  

Every mid-size sedan is pretty good now, but the Camry hybrid beats the Volt by 10 mpg when the Volt isn't charged ahead of time.   That is pretty crazy, and exciting because 50 mpg is the new standard for the mid-size segment, you'll see everyone there within a couple years.   

When the Volt isn't charged? Fuckin charge it..  Lol.. 

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

I ment Envision before when I said Encore about people thinking an Envision is roomier than a LaCrosse.  Buyers see crossovers, even small ones as more room than a full size sedan.  

Every mid-size sedan is pretty good now, but the Camry hybrid beats the Volt by 10 mpg when the Volt isn't charged ahead of time.   That is pretty crazy, and exciting because 50 mpg is the new standard for the mid-size segment, you'll see everyone there within a couple years.   

The EPA test isn't even close to accurate for PHEVs. I do so much better than the EPA in the Volt and Fusion Energi. My experience on both is well beyond EPA. 

9 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The EPA test isn't even close to accurate for PHEVs. I do so much better than the EPA in the Volt and Fusion Energi. My experience on both is well beyond EPA. 

Volt is very impressive.

17 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

When the Volt isn't charged? Fuckin charge it..  Lol.. 

That is assuming one is smart enough to figure out "male" and "female" in regards to an electrical cord connection.

9 hours ago, balthazar said:

Only 6 more CF than a s-550?? (114 CF). That's a crap-ton of extra money for a few duffel bags of space.

My '59 has 1.5-in more total legroom than the S-550 -as a coupe- on a 1.5-in shorter wheelbase.

- - - - -

Horse- I thought of that also, I'll measure my B-59 door thickness but they are plenty thick- I don't think that's it. There's plenty of room for side impact guards. GM started putting them in ahead of the federal reg IIRC: 1970- and I have access to a P-70 I can measure. Or was there a standard that mandated more space between the seat & door?

I got nothin' for our discussion regarding vehicle classification.

My best swing at the ball was already discussed which I think is good enough to explain why the switch.

Your thought process is logical enough....

I just simply dont care enough to make a distinction. I remember very well how large and wide cars were back in the day and because we are simply not offered those types of cars anymore coupled with the fact that where I live in the Province of Quebec and Quebec is the compact car capital of North America and has been since the late 1980s...it really does not make any difference to me how cars are  classified.

I do laugh though when I do hear some "enthusiast" car magazines  call the Honda Accord as a fullsized car....for those very same reasons you mention...

I also laugh to see how cars have grown in size and especially weight (thanx in part to all the safety stuff going on, but also due to the unnecessary gadgets that we have such as TV screens...) and I just as ask myself.....why oh why did we have to downsize our cars? To have back-up cameras and beep beep noises when another car approaches our blind spot? Id gladly take the gluttonous amounts of steel and chrome over the gluttonous amounts of unnecessary electronic doo-dads!

So yeah! A part of me thinks the way you do, but in reality, I just reminisce how huge cars were back in the day and...that is it.

43 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

I got nothin' for our discussion regarding vehicle classification.

My best swing at the ball was already discussed which I think is good enough to explain why the switch.

Your thought process is logical enough....

I just simply dont care enough to make a distinction. I remember very well how large and wide cars were back in the day and because we are simply not offered those types of cars anymore coupled with the fact that where I live in the Province of Quebec and Quebec is the compact car capital of North America and has been since the late 1980s...it really does not make any difference to me how cars are  classified.

I do laugh though when I do hear some "enthusiast" car magazines  call the Honda Accord as a fullsized car....for those very same reasons you mention...

I also laugh to see how cars have grown in size and especially weight (thanx in part to all the safety stuff going on, but also due to the unnecessary gadgets that we have such as TV screens...) and I just as ask myself.....why oh why did we have to downsize our cars? To have back-up cameras and beep beep noises when another car approaches our blind spot? Id gladly take the gluttonous amounts of steel and chrome over the gluttonous amounts of unnecessary electronic doo-dads!

So yeah! A part of me thinks the way you do, but in reality, I just reminisce how huge cars were back in the day and...that is it.

Would love to go back to the early seventies and enjoy full size cars once again.

15 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The EPA test isn't even close to accurate for PHEVs. I do so much better than the EPA in the Volt and Fusion Energi. My experience on both is well beyond EPA. 

So very true, Neighbor bought a new Volt 4 months back and was told he would need to gas up once a month at most by the dealer. He just filled up his first tank after 4 months. Says he loves it. Asked him why not the Bolt? Says his wife did not like the style compared to the VOLT. Says if the BOLT powertrain was in the VOLT, they would have bought it.

1 minute ago, dfelt said:

So very true, Neighbor bought a new Volt 4 months back and was told he would need to gas up once a month at most by the dealer. He just filled up his first tank after 4 months. Says he loves it. Asked him why not the Bolt? Says his wife did not like the style compared to the VOLT. Says if the BOLT powertrain was in the VOLT, they would have bought it.

I am just waiting for Gm to build a sporty little electric roadster like the Miata....would love that!

10 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I am just waiting for Gm to build a sporty little electric roadster like the Miata....would love that!

Totally agree, I think GM could bank many sales if they build a EV Roadster. Tesla says their Roadster 2.0 is on the drawing boards for 2019 or 2020 release. I think GM could easily take the BOLT Powertrain and build a Roadster that would just as is give 300 Mile range due to being lighter and grab a bunch of business.

Back on Topic, I like the CT6 face on the New XTS. What I would love to see is Cadillac surprise everyone by putting the BOLT powertrain into the ATS and the XT-3.

27 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Totally agree, I think GM could bank many sales if they build a EV Roadster. Tesla says their Roadster 2.0 is on the drawing boards for 2019 or 2020 release. I think GM could easily take the BOLT Powertrain and build a Roadster that would just as is give 300 Mile range due to being lighter and grab a bunch of business.

Back on Topic, I like the CT6 face on the New XTS. What I would love to see is Cadillac surprise everyone by putting the BOLT powertrain into the ATS and the XT-3.

Was always dazed and confused as to why the ELR was not a roadster. It would have been perfect.

41 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Was always dazed and confused as to why the ELR was not a roadster. It would have been perfect.

Ohh exactly...

And with a battery pack dropping the center of Gravity...a smaller Chevrolet version....would be just killer.

I think GM has some good things in store for we who wait....!