Buick to Look to China for more product

Chinese Buicks?

Well, if anything, the Chinese admiration for Buick should be considered a positive for us North American Buick admirers  as its the Chinese consumer that has kept Buick's iconic brand image alive.

But, is GM suggesting to rebadge GM's Chinese automotive partners' vehicles and peddle them as Buicks over here?   (correct me if Im wrong but the Chinese Buick sedans are what we got over here too, non? The Velite was the Verano which begat the convertible which is the Chevy Cruze anyway which had its bones be engineered by Opel...the Regal and Lacrosse are on the Epsilon 2 platform...again, Opel which the Lacrosse will die and possibly the Impala too)  

SHYTE!  

THAT is even WORSE than Opel sourced Buicks!

At least Opel was part of the GM umbrella. Since 1929!  Opel had a helping hand in several successful GM engineering demands over the decades...the thing is, Opel was as much a GM brand as Pontiac was.  

Nope! I do NOT approve of this!   I smell 1980s and 1990s Buick FWD mediocre redundancy repeating itself.

 Buick Skyhawk of the 1970s and Buick Somerset of the 1980s and Buick Skylark of the 1990s...

*SIGH*

I think Buick go all SUVs, they aren't going to keep the Regal past this life cycle, they aren't going to bring the Excelle over from China as a $19,999 price leader.   So I think it is becomes a 3 crossover brand until the day all these crossovers are just cannibalizing each other.

If it brings quality with tight fit n finish of new auto's that keeps the name plate alive and not just a cheap ass badge engineered job, I am fine with looking to the GM Buick group in China for inspiration.

Hopefully this is BEV3 platform focused EVs for the US market place.

21 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Hopefully this is BEV3 platform focused EVs for the US market place.

The downhill slide will instantly grow more precipitous if this notion comes to fruition.

13 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

The downhill slide will instantly grow more precipitous if this notion comes to fruition.

Yes for ICE it is a Slippery slop to the demise of old ways of doing things that have had their time. From Racing to drag racing everyone else can see the exciting future of electric's racing, driving and buzzing around.

Enjoy my friend living in the past.

Buick getting all of their vehicles made for the Chinese market makes sense given that China is about 75% of Buick sales.  Buick as a three-CUV car marque in the USA makes sense since car sales are so anemic.

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

But, is GM suggesting to rebadge GM's Chinese automotive partners' vehicles and peddle them as Buicks over here?   (correct me if Im wrong but the Chinese Buick sedans are what we got over here too, non? The Velite was the Verano which begat the convertible which is the Chevy Cruze anyway which had its bones be engineered by Opel...the Regal and Lacrosse are on the Epsilon 2 platform...again, Opel which the Lacrosse will die and possibly the Impala too)  

We didn't get any Chinese sedans. We only got the Chinese Envision.  The Verano was an Opel Astra reworked for the US and Chinese markets to be a Buick.  The Regal was the Opel Insignia and was initially built in Germany for the US, came to Oshawa, and then moved back to Germany for the current version.  The only GM sedan built in China and sold in the US was the Cadillac CT6 PHEV... and that is toast now too. 

1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

We didn't get any Chinese sedans. We only got the Chinese Envision.  The Verano was an Opel Astra reworked for the US and Chinese markets to be a Buick.  The Regal was the Opel Insignia and was initially built in Germany for the US, came to Oshawa, and then moved back to Germany for the current version.  The only GM sedan built in China and sold in the US was the Cadillac CT6 PHEV... and that is toast now too. 

Yeah. I thought so!

Anyway, my thoughts still stand.

GM's partnership with Chinese automotive brands, like SAIC, well, I do not think they produce good stuff. I googled some of their stuff and even if the quality is up to snuff, which I dont think it to be true,  they arent really appealing anyway.

Their SUVs are very derivative looking and their cars look like cheap knock-offs of VWs and/or Hondas...

I think they own MG automobiles...of former English decent...and some other cars look like MG cars of the 1990s...YIKES!!!

While EVs are important to the Chinese market, GM is engineering their own platforms, and with Rivian, they may not need Chinese platformed EVs for Buick...although good to ease up on the EV costs, but not necessary to use. 

Selling EVs in China is a whole different discussion though. 

@oldshurst442 - I think it is more that they develop a car for the Chinese market first and then decide if they'll sell/build it in the US also. 

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

a Slippery slop

32 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

@oldshurst442 - I think it is more that they develop a car for the Chinese market first and then decide if they'll sell/build it in the US also. 

Oh...

Got it!

16 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

I'm not a fan of anything Chinese but I have to say that if Chinese buy Buicks.. to the tune of 1.4 Million last year versus the 206K here.. then GM should care more about that market than here.

Then Casa's post sums it up quite nicely for me! 

DOES THIS MEAN WE'LL FINALLY GET THE GL6 AND GL8???

AVENIR!!!!

5 minutes ago, regfootball said:

DOES THIS MEAN WE'LL FINALLY GET THE GL6 AND GL8???

 

AVENIR!!!!

 

Would make sense but I doubt it.

YOU DO REALIZE I WAS BEING QUITE SARCASTIC...lol

1 minute ago, regfootball said:

YOU DO REALIZE I WAS BEING QUITE SARCASTIC...lol

Been working since 5am PST and still at it, so quickly looked and responded, as you know many of us without the proper Emojii seem to have a hard time reading Sarcastic comments!  

Mmm..Chinese Buicks.  Makes me think about getting Chinese take out one night this week.  Maybe Kung Pao Chicken or Moo Shu Pork.  Had Indian tonight. 

3 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Mmm..Chinese Buicks.  Makes me think about getting Chinese take out one night this week.  Maybe Kung Pao Chicken or Moo Shu Pork.  Had Indian tonight. 

Just think we could have a Cadillac Pecking Duck!  

5 hours ago, dfelt said:

If it brings quality with tight fit n finish of new auto's that keeps the name plate alive and not just a cheap ass badge engineered job, I am fine with looking to the GM Buick group in China for inspiration.

Hopefully this is BEV3 platform focused EVs for the US market place.

Highly thinking no-though china is the major testing ground for EVs now.

If GM plans to focus on EVs, Buick would be the biggest waste to do it on.

Better yet, if Buick is just going to be another copycat division- just send the whole brand to China instead....

On 2/18/2019 at 11:25 PM, regfootball said:

DOES THIS MEAN WE'LL FINALLY GET THE GL6 AND GL8???

 

AVENIR!!!!

 

Well, how much of a market is there for minivans these days?  I thought most just went the CUV/SUV route...

58 minutes ago, Paolino said:

Well, how much of a market is there for minivans these days?  I thought most just went the CUV/SUV route...

Not much of one. Only the Pacifica, Sienna, and Sedona survive. 

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Not much of one. Only the Pacifica, Sienna, and Sedona survive. 

Honda Odyssey also survives.  These four models aside, minivan models have been replaced (or displaced) by CUVs.

I don't know why I didn't think of it before, but Buick could be the crossover coupe brand, while GMC is the traditional crossover brand.  Then each can build 4 crossovers that are the same, except for a sloped rear roofline on the Buicks.  Seems like an idea the braintrusts that run most auto companies would come up with.  These companies are so crossover obsessed, pretty soon they will segment crossovers out 9 ways like how GM did it with W-bodies in the 80s.

BMW's wishfully-so-called "crossover coupes" [read: diminished headroom & cargo volume SUV] sell at less than 10% of their standard SUVs (X4 & X6 vs. X3 & X5). They're not the 'next big thing', sorry.

2 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I don't know why I didn't think of it before, but Buick could be the crossover coupe brand, while GMC is the traditional crossover brand.  Then each can build 4 crossovers that are the same, except for a sloped rear roofline on the Buicks.  Seems like an idea the braintrusts that run most auto companies would come up with.  These companies are so crossover obsessed, pretty soon they will segment crossovers out 9 ways like how GM did it with W-bodies in the 80s.

Cool idea..but I dont think people will buy into the idea that Buicks are young folk vehicles no matter how hard GM tries... 

Crossover coupes is toooo cool for Buick. The Buick brand in North America is just about done I think.  

I would market Buick as a stuffy, snobby brand rather try to go hip with "I cant believe this is Buick" commercials. Instead, Id be doing "Do you have Grey Poupon" commercials and instead of the guy pulling up next to a Rolls Royce for him to ask that, the guy asking would be pulling up next to a Buick... the only thing would be that the driver of the Buick need not be an old conservative white male...but anybody, black or white, male or female, that passes off as stick up the ass, rich snob. 

8 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

I dont think people will buy into the idea that Buicks are young folk vehicles no matter how hard GM tries

They did it with product.  The product should speak for itself.  The H- and J-body Skyhawks, especially T-Types... the Buick Regal T-Type and GN.. before that, the Skylark GS and GSX of the 60's-70's...

11 hours ago, ocnblu said:

They did it with product.  The product should speak for itself.  The H- and J-body Skyhawks, especially T-Types... the Buick Regal T-Type and GN.. before that, the Skylark GS and GSX of the 60's-70's...

You mean this Skyhawk

Or this one?

Or is it this one?

(The only one that has somewhat different front and rear is the Pontiac version, but the silhouette is the same...)

And this Skyhawk?   

Which one is the Buick and which one is the Pontiac and which one is the Oldsmobile?

Oh...yeah...I forgot...Cadillac also tried to get younger the same way...

Or is that the Chevy version?  

What is more younger?  A T-Type or a Z24?

Or are the Opel versions the youngest?

The 1960s GS and GSX and the 1980s GN and GNX were only a couple of models that lasted a very short period of time that Buick themselves did not really promote. As soon as they came, they left...  The 1960s GS last at least to model generations, but the GN and GNX were on the G-Body's last legs...only 1 generation for Dark Vader's automobile...and only  3 or 4 years offered on the GN. The GNX was a one shot deal...

The GS is older than I am and by the time I was born it was gone, and Im 46 years old. If I did not know about cars, I wouldnt know it existed.

The GN and GSX was a time before the world wide web went online to the world...almost a decade before...at a time when cell phones were bigger than bricks. CDs just came out....Cassettes were all the rage.  Beta was still in competition with VHS...

THAT Buick effort was such a loooong time ago, we might as well just group the GN and GNX with the GS and GSX...

Now you're just being contrary.  Those H and J cars were sold by Buick.  Your post is full of irrelevance to what I am saying to you.

36 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

The GS is older than I am and by the time I was born it was gone, and Im 46 years old

14 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Now you're just being contrary.  Those H and J cars were sold by Buick.  Your post is full of irrelevance to what I am saying to you.

 

And you are trying to argue with me trying to tell me that Buick actually tried hard to sell to the young...in which Im PROVING to you that is NOT the case...

That GS on top, 1973? lasted another 1-2 years...then it was gone. The 455 was gone and Buick went to their tried and true 3.8.  And 5-6 years later they developed the GN...but in between there was nothing from Buick to get the young folk...

Pontiac developped a CAN-AM in 1977 with the Colonnade body style but the other 3 versions from Buick, Chevy and Oldsmobile were just bad, neutered vehicles...(Hey...I know why, the 1970s...we dont have to state the reasons why...) 

YOU mentioned the H and J platorm cars...and I showed you those were nothing but crappy FWD redundancy compliancy appliancy... in which Cadillac got jealous for whatever reason...to do a young hip car and failed in the mid 1980s with that FWD redundancy compliancy appliancy ... (The H-Body was in fact RWD...I know!!!  BIG DEAL!!! Still crappy badge engineery, compliancy, appliancy) 

The T-Type Skyhawk???  PLEASE???!!!  The Z24 barely got any respect and YOU are gonna sell me on a Buick version?   

The J platform was a cheap Opel sourced platform...it worked for Chevy and Pontiac to a point...but... 

CMON, man!  GM badge engineering at its WORST!!! And people were not fooled by it either! Only GM blind faithful! 

Take off the GM blinders and talk to me without the bias...

DUDE, LINDA, LISTEN, LINDA... You are looking at them in hindsight!  You are not looking at them in relation to the time in which they were manufactured and offered for sale by Buick!

33 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

And you are trying to argue with me trying to tell me that Buick actually tried hard to sell to the young...in which Im PROVING to you that is NOT the case...

You ran astray on a number of points, which I'd be happy to straighten out, but don't want you to feel someone is playing 'semantics' with you.

1 minute ago, ocnblu said:

DUDE, LINDA, LISTEN, LINDA... You are looking at them in hindsight!  You are not looking at them in relation to the time in which they were manufactured and offered for sale by Buick!

No!

YOU are looking at them with GM blinders on!  

Those folk that bought those cars were GM lifers....WERE GM lifers as Im willing to bet, those folk went away and bought Japanese imports...

I AM looking at them in relation to time...Its THOSE cars that started the GM erosion of market share in the US that Honda, Toyota and Nissan eventually got and created Acura, Lexus and Infiniti...to DISPLACE the American luxury brands...

Its THOSE cars that were engineered crappy and failed many Americans and Americans would never return to American brands...

Less than two car generations from the H-Body to the J Body and the Japanese had Acura and Lexus and Infiniti on our shores...

Between that big block 455 GS Colonnade to the 1987 GNX...and Acura was selling Integras and Legends...

Two years later and the NSX changed the world...

YOU want to talk about YOUTHFUL, Sporty LUXURIOUS RIDES???!!!

This wiped the floor with ANY T-Type Skyhawk...

THAT is a 1987...It really is a Honda Civic...

But Honda had this that wiped the floor with the badge engineered Z24. This is a 1986

1986 Legend

1989

You honestly think...that what Buick gave us between 1977 and 1987...is YOUTHFUL?

Is WORTHY of the Buick nameplate?

In context of time???!!! 

Take off your GM blinders...because in 1977...

THIS is what Honda was giving us...

So...in context of time...even with a RWD H-Body...had the H-Body been as good as YOU are trying to sell me on context of time...and then morphed in to the J-Body...you think that Acura would succeed in the 1990s?

Get outta here with the H-Body bullshyte! Even worse for you to try to sell me on the J-Body...

And Im a HUGE defender of the J-Body...but O know its limitiations...

Settle down, our Canadian MoFo, you are getting your fro in an uproh, son.

You are also making me laugh with photos of Hondas, all of which were horrific rust buckets and POSes

2 minutes ago, balthazar said:

You ran astray on a number of points, which I'd be happy to straighten out, but don't want you to feel someone is playing 'semantics' with you.

But you always do play semantics...

and I did NOT run astray...on ANY point...

The 455 went away...

The 3.8 was bought back by Buick from Land Rover that Buick sold to them sometime in that era...I really do not care about the accuracy of the years...its IRRELEVANT to the POINTS being made...

The 3.8 liter V6 in the late 1970s were raced at NASCAR or something...which intrigued Buick engineers further and decided to use that for their Regal to create a new muscle car for the modern times that was fuel efficient...the GN was born...

GN died because GM went to FWD for most of their cars...

Dont matter...Acura did youthful FWD cars...Buick did not in that SAME TIME FRAME!!!

THOSE  are the points being made...THOSE are ACCURATE...anything else anybody wants to "correct" is JUST SEMANTICS!!! 

I JUST included a tad more details just to SHOW you guys I KNOW what Im saying IN THE CONTEXT OF TIME!!! 

  talk abote a hair trigger

Im cool as a cucumber...

Are you?

That would be twice you call me other by my name and Balthy took offense for me calling him out on semantics...

Stop with the blinders, both of you,  and accept the fact that Buick...even with the GS of muscle car fame in the 1960s, was NEVER into the youth market.

In fact, they created the GSX for it to be a tad more colourful for the young to be more muscle car than uptight old man's car like a GTO...

And the GS was relatively late to the party compared to the GTO and the 442 in 1964...

The Riviera was in 1964 was NOT a youthful entry...it was more for distinguished gentlemen...

Its called showing you proof...and calling out your bullshyte!!! 

?

PS: 

What are you gonna "correct" me on?

Because I said Opel sourced J-Platform?

Who the hell cares about the accuracy of THAT statement? Even if its not accurate...the message is NOT wrong because I used exaggeration...

Opel was a part of GM then...it dont matter where the J Platform came from...it came from GM engineering from all its brands...

But GM butthurtness fanboys WILL take offense to that when someone says that it a condescending way......when they shouldnt...but its said that way to trigger you....and it works...so the irony is that when you ask me if Im triggered...its really you that is triggered...

But THAT is NOT the point...

The point being, is that Buick was NOT making youthful cars aimed at the youth. Buick, and all of GM's brands were trying to cut costs to be profitable and platform sharing was the answer...except it was not platform sharing they were doing...they were doing the wrong way of platform sharing...they were doing god-awful badge engineering...

And if THAT to you guys means selling cars to the youth, then Im wrong then!!!

Yerr makin' me laugh, STOP

5 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Yerr makin' me laugh, STOP

Yet...no answer or rebuttal to the post where the Acura pics reside...

So...you still sticking to your idea that Buick tried to sell to the youthful market using the H-Body and J-Body?

Because its my turn to laugh...

PSS:

yet those rust bucket POS Japanese imports have caused a real problem for American car brands in the USofA...

Like I said...no real rebuttal...just empty insults...

Olds, buddy, if certain points are irrelevant to you, then don't call them out specifically (especially if they're incorrect.)
If you don't care where a car was developed, then don't say it was developed in (Xxxxx). If you don't care that the GS went out of production after 1975, then don't state it went out of production in 1972. Because if it's incorrect, it's going to get called out irregardless if you place importance upon it or not; one's man's semantics is another man's facts.

Buick did not chase the 'youth market', only the youthful Buick customer. There's a difference, and that's fine.

Just now, balthazar said:

Olds, buddy, if certain points are irrelevant to you, then don't call them out specifically (especially if they're incorrect.)
If you don't care where a car was developed, then don't say it was developed in (Xxxxx). If you don't care that the GS went out of production after 1975, then don't state it went out of production in 1972. Because if it's incorrect, it's going to get called out irregardless if you place importance upon it or not; one's man's semantics is another man's facts.

Buick did not chase the 'youth market', only the youthful Buick customer. That's different, and that's fine.

Balthy buddy...

you tend to always ignore the message...

The message is NOT wrong...a year or two difference does not chande the message...

WHO THE HELL CARES WHEN THE GS WENT AWAY???!!!  THAT was NOT the argument...

YOU could make it the argument...and THAT would be semantics...

2 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Buick did not chase the 'youth market', only the youthful Buick customer. That's different, and that's fine.

That on top...is what NEEDED to be said...

NOT this:

13 hours ago, ocnblu said:

They did it with product.  The product should speak for itself.  The H- and J-body Skyhawks, especially T-Types... the Buick Regal T-Type and GN.. before that, the Skylark GS and GSX of the 60's-70's...

Buick did not do that...not with the H-Body and definitely  not with the J Body...

Again...WHO THE HELL CARES WHEN THE Colonnade GS WENT AWAY?

1975? 1977?  It certainly did not make it past 1979... But is THAT the argument to begin with?

So...how was I wrong by posting pics of very bad badge engineered H-Bodies to say that Buick did NOT even try to sell to the youth?

Oh...I know...I said a very general statement of "the GS went away a couple of years after that" that makes my statement wrong...

Sure...whatever you say, Balthy...

You mis-interpret. Correcting the factual element of your post neither addresses nor refutes the point of your post. And it's not required to.

The message is NOT wrong...a year or two difference does not chande the message...WHO THE HELL CARES WHEN THE GS WENT AWAY???!!!  THAT was NOT the argument...

See- we agree.

BTW, I care when the GS went away; not because I love the '73-4-5 GS, but because history is important. Especially Automotive History.

[Meanwhile I am contemplating how I can badge my B-59 an 'Invicta GS'...]

You really think I insulted you in this thread?  Link please.

Just now, balthazar said:

You mis-interpret. Correcting the factual element of your post neither addresses nor refutes the point of your post. And it's not required to.
BTW, I care when the GS went away; not because I love the '73-4-5 GS, but because history is important. Especially Automotive History.

[Meanwhile I am contemplating how I can badge my B-59 an 'Invicta GS'...]

OK..I mis-interpret...with you...

Not with Blu...Im on point with Blu...

I do not care when the GS went away...in THIS instance because automotive history was not directed towards the GS...

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

1-2 years...then it was gone. The 455 was gone and Buick went to their tried and true 3.8.  And 5-6 years later they developed the GN...but in between there was nothing from Buick to get the young folk...

Pontiac developped a CAN-AM in 1977 with the Colonnade body style but the other 3 versions from Buick, Chevy and Oldsmobile were just bad, neutered vehicles...(Hey...I know why, the 1970s...we dont have to state the reasons why...) 

That whole statement above implies that a 1977 Pontiac CAN-AM was truly the one that had the effort behind it to rekindle some sort of muscle car revival in context to Buick trying to sell to the youthful side of things...

That statement above implies that a real GS went away shortly after 1973...and the consequent Buick Colonnade was a neutered affair...Sure...the way its written, you could read it to be 1975...but that is not the focus on what year it went away as I did not put a concrete year on it. 

I questioned my own authority on it by not being sure if it was a 1973 model and then I said it went away...1-2 years after that... Signifying and attesting and NOT focusing on went it actually went away but it did in fact go away sometime soon...and what remained was a neutered car and the only Colonnade worth mentioning that had any youthful aspirations WAS the 1977 CAN-Am..

To boot...you ignored the fact that I said I was born in 1973...regardless if the GS went away in 1977, and not in 1975 or 1971...I was STILL too young to remember the GS...but cherry picking 1 thing form the whole package seems to be an issue...

And this was  NOT an authority of automotive history...it was a memoir of how one person views one brand versus another in the passing of time...to which a year or two or three of when a model was introduced or went away doesnt mean much in the grand scheme of things...

And although automotive history means a lot to me too, not in discussions like these...

I hope you get to complete your B-59 and it becomes a proper Invicta GS as only how Buick could have done one. I truly mean that from the bottom of my heart! 

Ohhhh, you're not on point with me in this thread.

6 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

You really think I insulted you in this thread?  Link please.

You dont give rebuttals...you deflect. 

I find that insulting to my intelligence. 

I like back and forth discussions.  Tell me your point of view, Ill tell you mine. We duscuss. You explain yourself.  I explain myself and ideas are exchanged.

You could tell me I mis-interpet, Or I got that wrong. Show me where making sure that you are correct in your analysis without ignoring MY side of things and we good...

Dont give me credit at all, laugh and troll me without any rebuttal and yeah...I find it insulting...

Quote

did not put a concrete year on it.

You did; you said you were 46 and 'it was gone before I appeared.' 2018-46=1972, therefore claiming it lasted no longer than 1971, but the 455 CI GS went thru 1975. 4 years is half a decade (minus 1).
The next engine you mention after "the 455 went away" was the 231. But the predominant engine was the SBB 350. I'd have to check if the 231 was even offered in this body; IDK so I'll make no claim.

While not as exciting as the 455 CI variants, Buick did pace the Indy 500 in '76 with the turbocharged 231, and it was publicized heavily.

It was Buick that drove the now dominant forced induction ICE. There was a short lapse - the production turbo didn't come out until '78, then came the T-type, then the GN, and of course the GNX at the end of the platform. That's a 10 year run there. GS's ran '65-75, or 11 years. 21 years out of 23 with dedicated performance-oriented Buicks. I can't fault that track record. Performance was hot and Buick provided to their customers. BTW- Buick also paced Indy in '75, with a 455 CI GS ~

Quote

the GS was relatively late to the party compared to the GTO and the 442 in 1964

By 12 months. It was the 3rd person in the door at the house party, which would take over the entire block in a few more years (An AMC pony car???).

But...still all semantics...

Semantics would be if you stated the GS stopped production "in the mid '70s" and I replied "it ended in 1975".

These counterpoints are not dickerings over terminology, at least as far as I see them.

Thank you BTW for your well wish RE my B-59. I hope so too.