2018 Buick Enclave To Begin Just Under $41,000

Fantastic, love the direction Buick is going.

Love the look, wish they had an option for Monochromatic Avenir and Premium version. Not sure why American auto companies think Chrome Everything is a requirement to express that you have a top of the line auto!

I think it is appropriately priced.  My one question though is with the Avenir trim, and if that includes everything, or is there another $10,000 in options available on top of that $56,000.    Because we are getting into Audi Q7 territory in the $50s, and $65k is an Audi Q7 Prestige package.  And the Enclave isn't Q7 nice or Q7 fast.   Avenir loaded at $56k I think is still worth it if 3-row crossovers is your thing, but over $60k, why wouldn't you buy the Audi?

And to that point, this is why they need a Cadillac XT7 in a hurry.  

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

I think it is appropriately priced.  My one question though is with the Avenir trim, and if that includes everything, or is there another $10,000 in options available on top of that $56,000.    Because we are getting into Audi Q7 territory in the $50s, and $65k is an Audi Q7 Prestige package.  And the Enclave isn't Q7 nice or Q7 fast.   Avenir loaded at $56k I think is still worth it if 3-row crossovers is your thing, but over $60k, why wouldn't you buy the Audi?

And to that point, this is why they need a Cadillac XT7 in a hurry.  

Because not everyone wants an Audi.

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

Love the look, wish they had an option for Monochromatic Avenir and Premium version. Not sure why American auto companies think Chrome Everything is a requirement to express that you have a top of the line auto!

Americans are attracted to Bright shiny things.

3 hours ago, dfelt said:

Love the look, wish they had an option for Monochromatic Avenir and Premium version. Not sure why American auto companies think Chrome Everything is a requirement to express that you have a top of the line auto!

Monochromatic trim seems like a 'sporty' trim of the late 80s-early 90s, and blackout or black chrome seems to be a Millenial thing...I don't get it....regular chrome looks much better, IMO...it's hilarious--I'm in a FB group for Grand Cherokees and the most common posts are people asking about how to black out their chrome trim... black or body color trim just looks cheap to me, like a base trim level, not premium. 

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I think it is appropriately priced.  My one question though is with the Avenir trim, and if that includes everything, or is there another $10,000 in options available on top of that $56,000.    Because we are getting into Audi Q7 territory in the $50s, and $65k is an Audi Q7 Prestige package.  And the Enclave isn't Q7 nice or Q7 fast.   Avenir loaded at $56k I think is still worth it if 3-row crossovers is your thing, but over $60k, why wouldn't you buy the Audi?

And to that point, this is why they need a Cadillac XT7 in a hurry.  

Because a vast majority of RESPECTABLE Americans and Chinese don't go around lookin for Germans asses to lick between and suck on like U do. They also prefer going out to their vehicles and pushing the button and having them actually WORK 99% of the time.. and not get their pockets drained to do it. Be honest.. U and Hitler would have made great cell mates after WWII wouldn't U have

2 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Because a vast majority of RESPECTABLE Americans and Chinese don't go around lookin for Germans asses to lick between and suck on like U do. They also prefer going out to their vehicles and pushing the button and having them actually WORK 99% of the time.. and not get their pockets drained to do it. Be honest.. U and Hitler would have made great cell mates after WWII wouldn't U have

A bit much hyperbole, isn't it?  You seem to have some weird hate of German cars and fans of those cars...  

Just now, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

A bit much hyperbole, isn't it?  You seem to have some weird hate of German cars and fans of those cars...  

A bit? Man I fuckin HATE German and Japanese products. Hate 'em. I can't stand their buyers either,. and have made it a point of letting it be known since I started posting on the Internet some 15 years ago. Ask anyone who knows me out there and they will tell U as well. I'm a fanatic about this. And would have no problem if every God damn one of the companies of Germany, Japan, Korea, India, Italy, and now China ceased to exist and all that was left were GM and Ford. Fuck em. As for their buyers... meh

That's a very odd perspective.  Very isolationist and unrealistic in a global economy. 

40 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

A bit? Man I f@#kin HATE German and Japanese products. Hate 'em. I can't stand their buyers either,. and have made it a point of letting it be known since I started posting on the Internet some 15 years ago. Ask anyone who knows me out there and they will tell U as well. I'm a fanatic about this. And would have no problem if every God damn one of the companies of Germany, Japan, Korea, India, Italy, and now China ceased to exist and all that was left were GM and Ford. f@#k em. As for their buyers... meh

 Why don't Ford and GM build a better product?   GM had 44% market share in 1980 and has 16% today.  They can look in the mirror as to why that happened.  But the competition makes everyone better and all boats rise with the tide.  

As for the Enclave, I think the base and Essence trims are pretty competitive for the size of vehicle with some luxury appointments.  A mid-range Acura MDX is $50k and smaller than the Enclave with similar performance.  If they still make the Lincoln MKT, that would be int he Enclave's segment, but it is no competition, Infiniti Pathfinder is nothing special, so the Enclave is positioned pretty well against this group.  This is also a segment Genesis needs to get into.

Avenir trim is the question mark for me, if that $56k as I said is every bell and whistle Buick has, then I think it is pushing the limits of the brand, but also still would have enough value for buyers.   On the Buick website, it looks like the only Avenir option is a trailering package, so you are pretty much all in at $56k.  So as I said in my first post, it is worth the money at that price, not worth it if it goes over $60k.

Random anecdote--a couple that are old friends of mine who had been lifelong Japanese car buyers recently replaced their '04 Lexus ES and '08 Honda Pilot with a '17 Regal and a '17 Enclave. 

4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I think it is appropriately priced.  My one question though is with the Avenir trim, and if that includes everything, or is there another $10,000 in options available on top of that $56,000.    Because we are getting into Audi Q7 territory in the $50s, and $65k is an Audi Q7 Prestige package.  And the Enclave isn't Q7 nice or Q7 fast.   Avenir loaded at $56k I think is still worth it if 3-row crossovers is your thing, but over $60k, why wouldn't you buy the Audi?

And to that point, this is why they need a Cadillac XT7 in a hurry.  

When Buick hands out the official pricing list or something else, I'll be able to answer this.

The Avenir pricing is in the range of other luxury range topper versions of mid size 2 and 3 row wagons such as the Explorer Platinum or GC Summit. 

1 hour ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

That's a very odd perspective.  Very isolationist and unrealistic in a global economy. 

And also very self limiting.

I love cars, music, art, tools, food, wine, beer, fiction, movies, clothing, furniture style, 

From a number of different countries.

2 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

And also very self limiting.

I love cars, music, art, tools, food, wine, beer, fiction, movies, clothing, furniture style, 

From a number of different countries.

Me too. 

Actually, this gives me the chance to freely love American cars...I love them because of what they are and because I want to, not because I have to.

18 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Random anecdote--a couple that are old friends of mine who had been lifelong Japanese car buyers recently replaced their '04 Lexus ES and '08 Honda Pilot with a '17 Regal and a '17 Enclave. 

Good for them...GM, Ford and Mopar are all better off for proving themselves in an unprotected home market.

52 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

 Why don't Ford and GM build a better product?   GM had 44% market share in 1980 and has 16% today.  They can look in the mirror as to why that happened.  But the competition makes everyone better and all boats rise with the tide.  

A lot more players in the market...which is a good thing.  GM in 2017 is building much more interesting stuff than they did in 1980.

2 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

A bit? Man I fuckin HATE German and Japanese products. Hate 'em. I can't stand their buyers either,. and have made it a point of letting it be known since I started posting on the Internet some 15 years ago. Ask anyone who knows me out there and they will tell U as well. I'm a fanatic about this. And would have no problem if every God damn one of the companies of Germany, Japan, Korea, India, Italy, and now China ceased to exist and all that was left were GM and Ford. Fuck em. As for their buyers... meh

I find too much positive in life to let myself get consumed with hate.

3 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

That's a very odd perspective.  Very isolationist and unrealistic in a global economy. 

True.. but a man has to have dreams

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

  Why don't Ford and GM build a better product?   GM had 44% market share in 1980 and has 16% today.  They can look in the mirror as to why that happened.  But the competition makes everyone better and all boats rise with the tide.  

As for the Enclave, I think the base and Essence trims are pretty competitive for the size of vehicle with some luxury appointments.  A mid-range Acura MDX is $50k and smaller than the Enclave with similar performance.  If they still make the Lincoln MKT, that would be int he Enclave's segment, but it is no competition, Infiniti Pathfinder is nothing special, so the Enclave is positioned pretty well against this group.  This is also a segment Genesis needs to get into.

Avenir trim is the question mark for me, if that $56k as I said is every bell and whistle Buick has, then I think it is pushing the limits of the brand, but also still would have enough value for buyers.   On the Buick website, it looks like the only Avenir option is a trailering package, so you are pretty much all in at $56k.  So as I said in my first post, it is worth the money at that price, not worth it if it goes over $60k.

GM and Ford are building products, in particular GM with Cadillac, Buick and GMC.. Ford with Lincoln.. that are just as well built, and possibly better than you favs from Germany at about 80%-90% a discount to the consumer. On top of that your 1980 data of 44% is flawed... as in 1980 the sheer amount of makers selling in this country was quite smaller. Furthermore GM market share is currently closer to 17% YTD.. with 2 less brands than in 1980 and again.. several more manufacturers taking a bit out the pie.

And out of curiosity.... what makes an Audi Q7 Premium+ worth the starting price of $53K ?

1 hour ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Random anecdote--a couple that are old friends of mine who had been lifelong Japanese car buyers recently replaced their '04 Lexus ES and '08 Honda Pilot with a '17 Regal and a '17 Enclave. 

Apparently GM "built a better product", eh?

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

 GM had 44% market share in 1980 and has 16% today.

In model year 1980, U.S. manufacturers sold 7,601,819 units. Of that General Motors sold 5,053,190, or 66% of domestic production. Fold the 2.37M imports in and the number is 51%. I hope GM 'looked at itself' WRT 'building better products' to address the 'awful 1970s car they made' after seeing those numbers.

But ever-increasing inroads by foreign manufacturers will only lower those numbers by sheer math. Would I care to see GM at 51% again? Not really... tho I would LOVE to see domestic manufacturers back at 75-80% of the market.

31 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

GM and Ford are building products, in particular GM with Cadillac, Buick and GMC.. Ford with Lincoln.. that are just as well built, and possibly better than you favs from Germany at about 80%-90% a discount to the consumer. On top of that your 1980 data of 44% is flawed... as in 1980 the sheer amount of makers selling in this country was quite smaller. Furthermore GM market share is currently closer to 17% YTD.. with 2 less brands than in 1980 and again.. several more manufacturers taking a bit out the pie.

And out of curiosity.... what makes an Audi Q7 Premium+ worth the starting price of $53K ?

GM and Ford are building better products because the Japanese forced them too.  The Japanese had the small and midsize cars they had crossovers early on while GM and Ford stuck with body on frame getting terrible gas mileage.  Cars like the CTS-V exist because the BMW M5 exists.  Competition force GM and Ford to adapt or die, which they almost did in 2009.  But now they are doing pretty well and the crossover and truck boom helps because that was always a strong spot for GM and Ford.

The Q7 has a really well made interior, far better than and MDX or Infiniti QX60.  The Q7's 4 cylinder beats the V6's in gas mileage and can still accelerate with them, and the Q7 V6 still gets 19/25 which is segment average but it  much faster the other luxury 3 row crossovers at this price.  The Q7 is a full size Audi starting at $50k, that seems like a steal when a mid size VW Touareg costs that.

And for the record there has never been any Audi in history that I had any desire to own or even liked.  When they put the Lamborghini V10 in the A6 that was kind of cool, but I still wouldn't want one.

The base Enclave is maybe within reach but 47+ for one with AWD, yup, profits over volume.

The Traverse ain't cheap, either.

Sucks cuz i like them both.......

5 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

GM and Ford are building better products because the Japanese forced them too.

How do you think the Japanese built better products?- GM forced them to. '70s Japanese cars were horrendous.

And what about the General Motors & the Japanese effect on Germans products?

34 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Apparently GM "built a better product", eh?

Honda just needs to bring back the Crosstour.

7 minutes ago, balthazar said:

How do you think the Japanese built better products?- GM forced them to. '70s Japanese cars were horrendous.

And what about the General Motors & the Japanese effect on Germans products?

Quoted for truth.

Gotta say that new look is growing on me.....

Prices are not bad, but a price jump is smart considering there be some money on the hood at some point.

Not so much in a bad way, but I see the economy tumbling a bit in the future....

14 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Because not everyone wants an Audi.

Americans are attracted to Bright shiny things.

Not this American, Bling is so Baby Boomer 1960's.

14 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Monochromatic trim seems like a 'sporty' trim of the late 80s-early 90s, and blackout or black chrome seems to be a Millenial thing...I don't get it....regular chrome looks much better, IMO...it's hilarious--I'm in a FB group for Grand Cherokees and the most common posts are people asking about how to black out their chrome trim... black or body color trim just looks cheap to me, like a base trim level, not premium. 

 

Yet BMW and Benze makes billions off selling monochromatic versions of their auto's at the high trim levels especially the AMG and M line.

I love the look of black chrome far better than traditional chrome.

To me luxury is understated and not a bling reflection attack as you drive down the highway.

12 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

And also very self limiting.

I love cars, music, art, tools, food, wine, beer, fiction, movies, clothing, furniture style, 

From a number of different countries.

I agree self limiting, I love the world and from all over. I choose to support American Companies first before moving onto products from the rest of the world. That is the difference some of us have.

America First, then the world. things get along just fine then.

10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

GM and Ford are building better products because the Japanese forced them too.

10 hours ago, balthazar said:

How do you think the Japanese built better products?- GM forced them to. '70s Japanese cars were horrendous.

And what about the General Motors & the Japanese effect on Germans products?

History lesson, Deming tried to teach the US manufacturing industry how to build better products in the 70's and was blown off as a waste of time and money. Deming then went to Japan and they listened and followed his methodology to become the manufacturing power they are today. 

If it was not for American thinking of better ways to build products, the US arrogance of we are best already and blowing off Demming, Japan would not become who they are today. Germans also decided after Japan to follow the Demming way. Only after American Auto industry has been beaten to a pulp by the rest of the industry did they finally wake up to building better products.

http://www.wyohistory.org/encyclopedia/w-edwards-deming

If you want to be the best, you have to rethink how you build the best.

IIRC, David Halberstam's 'The Reckoning' gave a good overview of Deming's efforts in Japan...read that book probably 20 years ago. 

40 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Not this American, Bling is so Baby Boomer 1960's.

Yet BMW and Benze makes billions off selling monochromatic versions of their auto's at the high trim levels especially the AMG and M line.

I love the look of black chrome far better than traditional chrome.

To me luxury is understated and not a bling reflection attack as you drive down the highway.

I agree self limiting, I love the world and from all over. I choose to support American Companies first before moving onto products from the rest of the world. That is the difference some of us have.

America First, then the world. things get along just fine then.

I have both...one of my table saws is American the other is European. Different strokes for different folks.

13 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I have both...one of my table saws is American the other is European. Different strokes for different folks.

No problem with that, I can totally understand this and sometimes, an almost identical tool from another place just offers the one thing that American manufacturing does not. Gotta stay open to the world to incorporate the best of everyone.

As we all know, the new Buick started with the Enclave, not anything else.  Without that success, Buick could have gone the way of Oldsmobile.

While we are all happy Buick is doing well (especially in China), that leaves me with a question.  Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the Envision is somehow smaller than the XT5 or the Equinox/Terrain?  And why is that the case? 

As for a possible Cadillac XT7 as an Enclave variant, the case can (and should) be made that Cadillac could use a three-row crossover for those who do NOT want to buy an Escalade.  Not everyone wants a luxury BOF SUV for whatever reasons they have.  I hope Cadillac is working on that, and I hope it releases that vehicle soon given that more and more vehicle sales are CUVs and not cars at all.

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

No problem with that, I can totally understand this and sometimes, an almost identical tool from another place just offers the one thing that American manufacturing does not. Gotta stay open to the world to incorporate the best of everyone.

What I hate is the Anti American bias, people who will just not buy American because it is American. I am not even talking about people who boycott American products because they do not like US foreign policy or something....there are people who just mindlessly hate American products.  That strikes me as wildly irrational.

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

No problem with that, I can totally understand this and sometimes, an almost identical tool from another place just offers the one thing that American manufacturing does not. Gotta stay open to the world to incorporate the best of everyone.

...also, the European saw was a gift from a friend....so it has sentimental value.

I like the Avenir package, but whish they would offer it in a Black edition. Being Black Chrome.

29 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

  Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the Envision is somehow smaller than the XT5 or the Equinox/Terrain?  And why is that the case? 

Are you sure? Enclave has 3 rows of seats compared to the XT5 2 rows of seats. Also according to other news reports, GM seems to have confirmed that the 2018 Enclave is built on the same platform as the new Chevrolet Traverse and the upcoming 3 row Cadillac XT7. This would indicate it is indeed bigger than the XT5.

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2017/01/report-2018-buick-enclave-full-size-cadillac-crossover-to-be-built-in-lansing/

Just now, dfelt said:

I like the Avenir package, but whish they would offer it in a Black edition. Being Black Chrome.

Are you sure? Enclave has 3 rows of seats compared to the XT5 2 rows of seats. Also according to other news reports, GM seems to have confirmed that the 2018 Enclave is built on the same platform as the new Chevrolet Traverse and the upcoming 3 row Cadillac XT7. This would indicate it is indeed bigger than the XT5.

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2017/01/report-2018-buick-enclave-full-size-cadillac-crossover-to-be-built-in-lansing/

 

I just love the interior in that...always have had a soft spot for the Enclave.

Cadillac needed a 3 row crossover yesterday and they need 2 crossovers smaller than XT5.  Buick could put another crossover in between Envision and Enclave easily.  GMC needs a crossover smaller than Terrain.

1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

Cadillac needed a 3 row crossover yesterday and they need 2 crossovers smaller than XT5.  Buick could put another crossover in between Envision and Enclave easily.  GMC needs a crossover smaller than Terrain.

I will agree with you SMK that Cadillac could easily have an XT4 and maybe an XT3, but nothing smaller is really needed. Leave the subcompact market to Buick. For sure an XT7 is needed.

I also agree with you that GMC should have a Subcompact model below the Terrain that is a very butch offroad capable CUV. Something with the off road capability of the late Hummer line.

1 minute ago, dfelt said:

I will agree with you SMK that Cadillac could easily have an XT4 and maybe an XT3, but nothing smaller is really needed. Leave the subcompact market to Buick. For sure an XT7 is needed.

I also agree with you that GMC should have a Subcompact model below the Terrain that is a very butch offroad capable CUV. Something with the off road capability of the late Hummer line.

I am not sure I agree with either of you.  GM just got over trying to build too many vehicles to suit too many people. They need to stop trying to be everything for everyone IMHO.

3 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I like the Avenir package, but whish they would offer it in a Black edition. Being Black Chrome.

Are you sure? Enclave has 3 rows of seats compared to the XT5 2 rows of seats. Also according to other news reports, GM seems to have confirmed that the 2018 Enclave is built on the same platform as the new Chevrolet Traverse and the upcoming 3 row Cadillac XT7. This would indicate it is indeed bigger than the XT5.

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2017/01/report-2018-buick-enclave-full-size-cadillac-crossover-to-be-built-in-lansing/

 

Envision is smaller than the XT5 but similar size to the Equinox.

For  sure Cadillac will get an Enclave, they are hurting for crossovers.   Upgrade the interior and put a 400 hp V6 in and Cadillac has their Q7 fighter.

3 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I am not sure I agree with either of you.  GM just got over trying to build too many vehicles to suit too many people. They need to stop trying to be everything for everyone IMHO.

They can start cutting sedans.  Any brand needs a minimum 4 crossovers to survive.  Buick could get by with 1-2 sedans and Cadillac needs 3.  Chevy can drop Impala and Sonic and bring out 2 more crossover and see sales grow.

6 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I am not sure I agree with either of you.  GM just got over trying to build too many vehicles to suit too many people. They need to stop trying to be everything for everyone IMHO.

I can understand where you are coming from and in my mind, the more I think about it, the more I am sure Cadillac needs an XT3/4 which ever number you want to use and an XT7 but that is it. I would not build any other CUV's.

I think Cadillac could do just fine with 3 CUV's that start out in basic form and go all the way up to a V edition for every product model.

GMC needs to build on the Hummer Off Road capability and can get away with a Sub Compact that is a solid wrangler competitor. I truly think you can do this with a CUV..

Buick is fine with their existing CUV product line I think.

16 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

They can start cutting sedans.  Any brand needs a minimum 4 crossovers to survive.  Buick could get by with 1-2 sedans and Cadillac needs 3.  Chevy can drop Impala and Sonic and bring out 2 more crossover and see sales grow.

Sonic and Impala already have the development paid for but yes, they need 2 more crossovers.

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

They can start cutting sedans.  Any brand needs a minimum 4 crossovers to survive.  Buick could get by with 1-2 sedans and Cadillac needs 3.  Chevy can drop Impala and Sonic and bring out 2 more crossover and see sales grow.

Speaking of things that needed to happen yesterday.....

Keep a few sedans for the traditional folk, get a few SUV/CUVs, and a sportwagon.....

Don't think you'll wait to much longer to see those two Chevys axed....

12 minutes ago, daves87rs said:

Speaking of things that needed to happen yesterday.....

Keep a few sedans for the traditional folk, get a few SUV/CUVs, and a sportwagon.....

Don't think you'll wait to much longer to see those two Chevys axed....

Sadly, yes, as the Impala is a wonderful product.

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

They can start cutting sedans.  Any brand needs a minimum 4 crossovers to survive.  Buick could get by with 1-2 sedans and Cadillac needs 3.  Chevy can drop Impala and Sonic and bring out 2 more crossover and see sales grow.

So then what your also saying is the Benz and BMW could cut most of the cars and just keep 4 CUV's and they would be fine then.

Benze, C, E and S in Coupe, 4 door sedan and performance version along with a station wagon and AMG versions. Each lineup with a proper EV too. Then just have the GLC, GLE and GLS and drop all the GLA, CLA and G out of date wagon low selling models.

BMW 3, 5 & 7 series for coupe, 4 door sedan and performance with a station wagon and then their X3, X5 and X7 CUVs and drop all the rest of the wasteful low selling models.

7 minutes ago, dfelt said:

So then what your also saying is the Benz and BMW could cut most of the cars and just keep 4 CUV's and they would be fine then.

Benze, C, E and S in Coupe, 4 door sedan and performance version along with a station wagon and AMG versions. Each lineup with a proper EV too. Then just have the GLC, GLE and GLS and drop all the GLA, CLA and G out of date wagon low selling models.

BMW 3, 5 & 7 series for coupe, 4 door sedan and performance with a station wagon and then their X3, X5 and X7 CUVs and drop all the rest of the wasteful low selling models.

The rules he gives for domestics do not apply to the Germans, and especially Mercedes. Thought you would have learned that by now lol. 

5 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

The rules he gives for domestics do not apply to the Germans, and especially Mercedes. Thought you would have learned that by now lol. 

 Come on, gotta take a break from time to time and bait the hook and fish!  

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

The rules he gives for domestics do not apply to the Germans, and especially Mercedes. Thought you would have learned that by now lol. 

From a logical standpoint it is called special pleading, something that seems to happen a lot...

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

 Come on, gotta take a break from time to time and bait the hook and fish!  

Only if one uses a German rod and reel....otherwise one is slacking...

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

So then what your also saying is the Benz and BMW could cut most of the cars and just keep 4 CUV's and they would be fine then.

Benze, C, E and S in Coupe, 4 door sedan and performance version along with a station wagon and AMG versions. Each lineup with a proper EV too. Then just have the GLC, GLE and GLS and drop all the GLA, CLA and G out of date wagon low selling models.

BMW 3, 5 & 7 series for coupe, 4 door sedan and performance with a station wagon and then their X3, X5 and X7 CUVs and drop all the rest of the wasteful low selling models.

Benz and BMW could cut themselves down to Cadillac levels of model availability and it would barely hurt them....it might even help them, at least in the US market.

4 hours ago, dfelt said:

I can understand where you are coming from and in my mind, the more I think about it, the more I am sure Cadillac needs an XT3/4 which ever number you want to use and an XT7 but that is it. I would not build any other CUV's.

I think Cadillac could do just fine with 3 CUV's that start out in basic form and go all the way up to a V edition for every product model.

GMC needs to build on the Hummer Off Road capability and can get away with a Sub Compact that is a solid wrangler competitor. I truly think you can do this with a CUV..

Buick is fine with their existing CUV product line I think.

The sad reality is Cadillac could put 6 crossovers in their line up and all 6 would likely sell better than the CTS.  I don't like SUVs but they are what sells.

Buick I think is fine with 3 crossovers because GMC is in the same dealership and they could have 3 or even 4 if they expand offerings.  GMC could easily add more crossovers or a Wrangler like off roader.  You can make something look off road that isn't like the new Toyota J whatever it's called.

1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

The sad reality is Cadillac could put 6 crossovers in their line up and all 6 would likely sell better than the CTS.  I don't like SUVs but they are what sells.

Buick I think is fine with 3 crossovers because GMC is in the same dealership and they could have 3 or even 4 if they expand offerings.  GMC could easily add more crossovers or a Wrangler like off roader.  You can make something look off road that isn't like the new Toyota J whatever it's called.

I do not think the auto market is just so simple as "throw more crossovers at it..."