What Is In BMW's Future Product Pipeline?

YAWN........ So BMW is going to bring their Chevy / Toyota competitor to the US. FWD Appliance, BLAH! 

How about their BLOATED FATNESS, that would be good to address along with their clear lack of being a driving machine. 

BMW really needs to wake up to the world of change. 

All I see here is them sticking to a worn out formula and not improving their actual auto's much not to mention a seriously outdated design style.

A 1 Series sedan? Really? It seemed to work so well the last they sold one here so hell, might as well screw it up again I guess.

The 3 series has become too expensive as an entry-level lux sedan, and the 2 series has been 2drs only...so it makes sense to have an entry level sedan. Though the X1 will probably outsell it.

27 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

The 3 series has become too expensive as an entry-level lux sedan, and the 2 series has been 2drs only...so it makes sense to have an entry level sedan. Though the X1 will probably outsell it.

This makes you ask that question of, Is BMW even paying attention to what Americans are Buying in this market? Why waste money on a 1 series car, just stay focused on quality cuv's.

A 1-series sedan won't sell much volume but I think they want it just because Mercedes and Audi have a car in that segment.  It is taking a long time to get the X7 to market, they have been talking about that for years.

A front wheel drive BMW car for North America.

I cant wait for it to finally show up in Canadian and American BMW dealerships.

On 8/10/2017 at 10:47 AM, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

The 3 series has become too expensive as an entry-level lux sedan, and the 2 series has been 2drs only...so it makes sense to have an entry level sedan. Though the X1 will probably outsell it.

BMW needs a car for the 'new credit' 'bad credit' 'first time buyers' 'poseurs with little money' crowds

A 1 Series won't be bought by anyone other than yuppies trying to project a higher social status. Ugh. An Mk7 GTI will hand the car it's ass on a platter.

31 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

A 1 Series won't be bought by anyone other than yuppies trying to project a higher social status. Ugh. An Mk7 GTI will hand the car it's ass on a platter.

I think even the yuppies will forgo this car.

1. the new age yuppies nowadays prefer to play with gadgets like phones and tablets and fitbit wrist thingys...

2. the few "car enthusiast" yuppies that are around have grown up from BMW sedans and are either

a) gone to BMW CUVs like the X1 or X3 along with their house playing wives...

b) gone to another German manufacturer...and that yuppie will buy that manufacturer's sedan...but not really...as I think that that yuppie will probably buy that manufacturer's CUV instead.

c) dont laugh, but I believe today's car enthusiast yuppie will probably buy a Ford Mustang instead of the 1 Series as its cool to buy a Mustang once again...

d) and if that is only if today's car enthusiast yuppie respects the internal combustion engine...because I find that today's car enthusiast yuppie is on the electric vehicle bandwagon...and he is probably on the waiting list for the Model 3 already...or will be soon...

57 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

I think even the yuppies will forgo this car.

1. the new age yuppies nowadays prefer to play with gadgets like phones and tablets and fitbit wrist thingys...

2. the few "car enthusiast" yuppies that are around have grown up from BMW sedans and are either

a) gone to BMW CUVs like the X1 or X3 along with their house playing wives...

b) gone to another German manufacturer...and that yuppie will buy that manufacturer's sedan...but not really...as I think that that yuppie will probably buy that manufacturer's CUV instead.

c) dont laugh, but I believe today's car enthusiast yuppie will probably buy a Ford Mustang instead of the 1 Series as its cool to buy a Mustang once again...

d) and if that is only if today's car enthusiast yuppie respects the internal combustion engine...because I find that today's car enthusiast yuppie is on the electric vehicle bandwagon...and he is probably on the waiting list for the Model 3 already...or will be soon...

Agree with everything here especially about the technology gadgets and looking / waiting for the EV's to land.

BMW is truly wasting money on this A1 FWD appliance.

Nice viewpoint IMHO. Like the post.

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

I think even the yuppies will forgo this car.

1. the new age yuppies nowadays prefer to play with gadgets like phones and tablets and fitbit wrist thingys...

2. the few "car enthusiast"  yuppies that are around have grown up from BMW sedans and are either

a) gone to BMW CUVs like the X1 or X3 along with their house noyasystem playing wives...

b) gone to another German manufacturer...and that yuppie will buy that manufacturer's sedan...but not really...as I think that that yuppie will probably buy that manufacturer's CUV instead.

c) dont laugh, but I believe today's car enthusiast yuppie will probably buy a Ford Mustang instead of the 1 Series as its cool to buy a Mustang once again...

d) and if that is only if today's car enthusiast yuppie respects the internal combustion engine...because I find that today's car enthusiast yuppie is on the electric vehicle bandwagon...and he is probably on the waiting list for the Model 3 already...or will be soon...

No one wants a 1-series, yuppies know the 3-series is where it is at.  And they can argue it is better than a 5-series because it has heritage as the ultimate sports sedan and it is for young and hip people.  Where is the 5-series is like Dad's car.

3-series lost it's 'ultimate sports sedan' title- didn't you hear?

On 8/13/2017 at 10:39 PM, smk4565 said:

No one wants a 1-series, yuppies know the 3-series is where it is at.  And they can argue it is better than a 5-series because it has heritage as the ultimate sports sedan and it is for young and hip people.  Where is the 5-series is like Dad's car.

'yuppies' were an '80s-90s thing...don't the hip kids today aspire to Teslas and prefer Uber to driving? 

On 8/13/2017 at 7:39 PM, smk4565 said:

No one wants a 1-series, yuppies know the 3-series is where it is at.  And they can argue it is better than a 5-series because it has heritage as the ultimate sports sedan and it is for young and hip people.  Where is the 5-series is like Dad's car.

But Yuppies are all entering their 50's, so a 5 series is where they are supposed to be at this age, not the 3 series and the 3 series lost it's driving Machine cred's to the ATS!

Yuppies are out of date in regards to the lower end auto's and Millennials are now all about the EV, Smartphones and using Uber or Lyft.

10 minutes ago, dfelt said:

But Yuppies are all entering their 50's, so a 5 series is where they are supposed to be at this age, not the 3 series and the 3 series lost it's driving Machine cred's to the ATS! 

The oldest Yuppies are in their 60s now... 

2 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

The oldest Yuppies are in their 60s now... 

Does that mean I should not be wearing polo shirts with the collar up? 

21 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Does that mean I should not be wearing polo shirts with the collar up? 

LoL...I remember doing my teenage Yuppie wannabe thing in high school in the late 80s w/ Izod shirts w/ the little alligator and Ralph Lauren shirts w/ the polo ponies..still wore Ralph through my 30s.. had my Members Only jacket in the 80s also.. 

(now what passes for fashion in my wardrobe are t-shirts and polos from long-gone tech companies and past tech conferences..now those are cool IMO...)

22 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

LoL...I remember doing my teenage Yuppie wannabe thing in high school in the late 80s w/ Izod shirts w/ the little alligator and Ralph Lauren shirts w/ the polo ponies..still wore Ralph through my 30s.. had my Members Only jacket in the 80s also.. 

(now what passes for fashion in my wardrobe are t-shirts and polos from long-gone tech companies and past tech conferences..now those are cool IMO...)

I would so totally agree but the wife likes me in Tommy Bahama Polo's with the collar down.  

Ultimate Yuppie Song

On 8/14/2017 at 0:44 AM, balthazar said:

3-series lost it's 'ultimate sports sedan' title- didn't you hear?

Since the Cadillac ATS is going away I guess the 3-series will slide back to 2nd place in sport sedans behind the Alfa Romeo Guilia.   I don't think BMW is so lost that they can't win a sport sedan battle with Alfa Romeo over time.

7 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Since the Cadillac ATS is going away I guess the 3-series will slide back to 2nd place in sport sedans behind the Alfa Romeo Guilia.   I don't think BMW is so lost that they can't win a sport sedan battle with Alfa Romeo over time.

I can't imagine Alfa winning over BMW once it's unreliability and quality problems are factored in...

19 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Since the Cadillac ATS is going away I guess the 3-series will slide back to 2nd place in sport sedans behind the Alfa Romeo Guilia.   I don't think BMW is so lost that they can't win a sport sedan battle with Alfa Romeo over time.

Read between the lines on that JDN announcement. The ATS is getting renamed and probably getting a hatchback. There is no more Regal sedan anymore either. But in both cases, that slot in the brands' lineups are not going unfilled. 

7 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Read between the lines on that JDN announcement. The ATS is getting renamed and probably getting a hatchback. There is no more Regal sedan anymore either. But in both cases, that slot in the brands' lineups are not going unfilled. 

I read Johan's statement as CT5 replaces CTS and ATS, and slots in between the current ATS and CTS in price.  And a CT4 competes with CLA and A3 and that sweet BMW 1-series that we are getting.  Johan knows he can't beat the E-class, C-class or 3-series.  So they are going to try that tweener strategy again, maybe go after the MKZ and Infiniti Q50.  

Cadillac already took their best shot with ATS and CTS, time to go back down the food chain.  And if he wanted to take big shots the XT5 wouldn't be an Acadia, and XT4 wouldn't be an Equinox.  So we know where his plan is going.  And he was there before XT4 hit development, excuse time is over for him being new, if he wanted a CTS-V engine in a mid-size SUV he'd have it already, even FCA has pulled that trick off a few times with no money and dated platforms.

Again, JDN was very careful to use the word sedan.

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Johan knows he can't beat the E-class, C-class or 3-series.

Wait, how could all 3 of those cars sell in identical numbers???

11 hours ago, balthazar said:

Wait, how could all 3 of those cars sell in identical numbers???

They don't but they outsell the ATS like 6 to 1.  JDN is going to go where he can compete and that is front drive crossovers.

OHHHHHH; you mean 'sell as many', NOT 'build a competitive or better product'.

I was confused; most people are well aware that the most common thing doesn't necessarily mean the best thing. 
 

5 minutes ago, balthazar said:

OHHHHHH; you mean 'sell as many', NOT 'build a competitive or better product'.

I was confused; most people are well aware that the most common thing doesn't necessarily mean the best thing. 
 

Remember, sales volume is the only measure of best in SMK's view of the luxury market. 

39 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Remember, sales volume is the only measure of best in SMK's view of the luxury market. 

I like to pretend I don't remember that, so I can occasionally bask in the wonder of the short-sightedness of such a mindset, all over again.

4 hours ago, balthazar said:

OHHHHHH; you mean 'sell as many', NOT 'build a competitive or better product'.

I was confused; most people are well aware that the most common thing doesn't necessarily mean the best thing. 
 

They aren't competitive.  If they were people would buy them.   Cheap, cramped interiors and a HUE, (Horrible User Interface), torqueless V6, refinement issues, etc.  The CTS back in 2006 sold better than what the ATS and CTS combined are selling now.  The competition passed them by.   The AMG cars constantly beat Cadillacs in magazine comparison tests, and AMG is just getting warmed up.  BMW better get their M division up to par, AMG is stomping them too and is now on to Porsche and Ferrari.  

Let's look at the next AMG car:

under 2800 lbs

1.6 liter bi-turbo V6 hybrid

1000+ horsepower

11,000+ rpm redline

4 electric motors

F1 pushrod suspension

BMW, Cadillac and Audi will never get there.

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

They aren't competitive.  If they were people would buy them.

People DO BUY THEM. I don't get how you DON'T GET this.

11 hours ago, smk4565 said:

They aren't competitive.  If they were people would buy them.   Cheap, cramped interiors and a HUE, (Horrible User Interface), torqueless V6, refinement issues, etc.  The CTS back in 2006 sold better than what the ATS and CTS combined are selling now.  The competition passed them by.   The AMG cars constantly beat Cadillacs in magazine comparison tests, and AMG is just getting warmed up.  BMW better get their M division up to par, AMG is stomping them too and is now on to Porsche and Ferrari.  

Let's look at the next AMG car:

under 2800 lbs

1.6 liter bi-turbo V6 hybrid

1000+ horsepower

11,000+ rpm redline

4 electric motors

F1 pushrod suspension

 

BMW, Cadillac and Audi will never get there.

 

WOW Lovely Bullshit of what you imagine AMG will build but has not done so to date.

Plus, you must have taken extra crack since you are now again with moving goal posts comparing AMG to the whole ATS / CTS line. 

Apples to Oranges or in your case, Germain to American.

So other than MB showing how many Badge Snob Idiots buy their products lets look at the facts of their auto's:

Rear leg room between ATS and it's equal german counterpart? 

Same!

Will not waste time listing so many more examples since we all have seen how you will move the goal post and flip to something else to play the do not look in my failed left hand, look at the shiny new bauble in my right hand.

If I did not know better, you have really taken after all the idiots in DC and around the country that has massive eclipse blinders on.

AMG has already released those specs on the hypercar that goes on sale in 2018.

In almost any comparison test the C300 is near the top of the class, C63 has beaten ATS-V and M3 head on, the E43 just won a comparison test, I remember the E300 beating the CT6 in a Motor Trend compare last year.  Those 2 cars regardless of trim level are class leading.

14 hours ago, smk4565 said:

They aren't competitive.  If they were people would buy them.   Cheap, cramped interiors and a HUE, (Horrible User Interface), torqueless V6, refinement issues, etc.  The CTS back in 2006 sold better than what the ATS and CTS combined are selling now.  The competition passed them by.   The AMG cars constantly beat Cadillacs in magazine comparison tests, and AMG is just getting warmed up.  BMW better get their M division up to par, AMG is stomping them too and is now on to Porsche and Ferrari.  

Let's look at the next AMG car:

under 2800 lbs

1.6 liter bi-turbo V6 hybrid

1000+ horsepower

11,000+ rpm redline

4 electric motors

F1 pushrod suspension

 

BMW, Cadillac and Audi will never get there.

 

But the pushrods!

6 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

AMG has already released those specs on the hypercar that goes on sale in 2018.

They'll sell like 12 of those hypercars.... it's not a business model. 

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

But the pushrods!

They'll sell like 12 of those hypercars.... it's not a business model. 

275 already sold out, I don't know why they don't make 500, why stop when you have people in line to buy it. 

What does become a business model is taking that hybrid system, and applying it to a more conventional engine, or taking the electric turbo from that car and putting in the E53 that is supposed to replace the E43. 

48 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

275 already sold out, I don't know why they don't make 500, why stop when you have people in line to buy it. 

What does become a business model is taking that hybrid system, and applying it to a more conventional engine, or taking the electric turbo from that car and putting in the E53 that is supposed to replace the E43. 

They have to build the hybrid system for the lesser cars anyway. Building a hyper-super-duper car doesn't add any significant economies of scale. 

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

They have to build the hybrid system for the lesser cars anyway. Building a hyper-super-duper car doesn't add any significant economies of scale. 

Yes but they don't have to design something new, they already have most of that work done from the F1 car.  Speeds up the R&D time.  If they want to make an 800 hp AMG GT sedan, or an e-turbo C300 that is more efficient than the current car, it won't be that hard to do.

2 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Yes but they don't have to design something new, they already have most of that work done from the F1 car.  Speeds up the R&D time.  If they want to make an 800 hp AMG GT sedan, or an e-turbo C300 that is more efficient than the current car, it won't be that hard to do.

That still doesn't give it a sustainable business model. Even Rolls Royce moves 4,000 cars a year.

3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

That still doesn't give it a sustainable business model. Even Rolls Royce moves 4,000 cars a year.

Not every car Mercedes makes has to be profitable though.  They can build low volume one offs or loss leaders just for the sake of doing it.  At most car companies the bean counters will kill off a 6 wheel drive SUV or a Laundelet limo or a hyper car well before it even gets off the sketch pad.

And the hyper car might not even lose money, the powertrain development is already paid for and the $2 million price might cover the materials and production cost.  If it doesn't, Mercedes obviously doesn't care.

13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Not every car Mercedes makes has to be profitable though.  They can build low volume one offs or loss leaders just for the sake of doing it.  At most car companies the bean counters will kill off...

Yet the beancounters killed off the unique-bodied Maybach 1.0 when it failed to make a profit.

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Yet the beancounters killed off the unique-bodied Maybach 1.0 when it failed to make a profit.

That was a W140 chassis car, they were still selling when the W221 S-class was on sale with the same V12 and the Maybach was double the price.  I bet they had profit on the Maybach, but they had no reason to keep it going.  It was a failed experiment, and over reaction to BMW having Rolls, and VW having Bentley.

It made more sense to dump the Maybach brand rather than do another $400,000 sedan that won't sell and doesn't bring any cache to the Mercedes logo.   It is better to focus on the S-class as their ultimate sedan and offer the Maybach trim to bolster the S-class and the 3 point star.

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

It was a failed experiment...

Must've taken you HOURS to type those 5 words.

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Must've taken you HOURS to type those 5 words.

I did not quite comprehend what Balthy meant by that and I certainly did not understand what Mr. Moltar found so funny...until I saw who Balthy was quoting.

And even then...I did not fully get it...but then it hit me instantly! Delayed reaction.

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

That was a W140 chassis car, they were still selling when the W221 S-class was on sale with the same V12 and the Maybach was double the price.  I bet they had profit on the Maybach, but they had no reason to keep it going.  It was a failed experiment, and over reaction to BMW having Rolls, and VW having Bentley.

It made more sense to dump the Maybach brand rather than do another $400,000 sedan that won't sell and doesn't bring any cache to the Mercedes logo.   It is better to focus on the S-class as their ultimate sedan and offer the Maybach trim to bolster the S-class and the 3 point star.

I doubt Maybach was ever profitable, amount of marketing, parts numbers to material dies, assembly, so much goes into a model / brand segment and the hours of people working on it. I doubt they recovered to a break even point on selling auto's badges as Maybach.

4 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

I did not quite comprehend what Balthy meant by that and I certainly did not understand what Mr. Moltar found so funny...until I saw who Balthy was quoting.

And even then...I did not fully get it...but then it hit me instantly! Delayed reaction.

Yes I actually scanned SMK's response and did not pick it up at first either in his post.

That was a W140 chassis car, they were still selling when the W221 S-class was on sale with the same V12 and the Maybach was double the price.  I bet they had profit on the Maybach, but they had no reason to keep it going.  It was a failed experiment, and over reaction to BMW having Rolls, and VW having Bentley.

It made more sense to dump the Maybach brand rather than do another $400,000 sedan that won't sell and doesn't bring any cache to the Mercedes logo.   It is better to focus on the S-class as their ultimate sedan and offer the Maybach trim to bolster the S-class and the 3 point star.