Ram Smashes Range Anxiety with their Ram 1500 REV

47 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Tesla just cut prices again, $1,000 to $5,000 depending on model.  The other guys are raising prices, pretty predictable how this will turn out.

Not at all, everyone is scrambling to secure all the resources they need and, in the meantime, as they startup, costs are higher. For some they will have higher prices and for others lower prices.

What price cutting is telling is that Tesla as I have proved above already has a selling problem. They can produce more all they want, but customers are not buying like they used too and this is going to hurt Tesla just as it hurts any company when they continue to cut prices to move product. People take a wait and see attitude and I suspect Q2 is going to be ugly for Tesla as they have moved into the Legacy model of building more than they can sell rather than the JIT or Just in Time system that GM and Ford has moved to which is what Toyota also does. 

As such, building and storing product to adjust your story of positive growth when it is really negative hurts in the long run.

We are at the start of the EV change over that you know is correct and no one even you can predict how it will turn out.

People like you stated in the 70's that Japan was junk and the US auto industry does not need to build quality fuel efficient small auto's and yet now we know how that turned out. Saying it is predictable on such a small thing as price cuts is not going to bod well for Tesla with a polarizing CEO that is turning people off their products.

Posting again to prove this point:

Drivers Ditch Tesla: I Don't Want It to Be 'the New MAGA Hat' (businessinsider.com)

Elon Musk's politics are dividing consumers | CNN Business

Tesla Drivers Are Getting Fed Up With Elon Musk's Twitter Meltdowns - CNET

Elon Musk’s Twitter Takeover Could Be Driving Away Tesla Buyers | Vanity Fair

Then we have the latest of disrespecting your privacy from Tesla that is a valid concern.
Tesla Employees Shared Invasive Videos From Customers' Cars: Report (msn.com)

End result is NOTHING is Predictable as I expect Q2 for Tesla to be stagnant if not down.

3 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Ummm, many others ALSO cut their prices but maybe you missed that memo. How predictable is it again, knowing the actual facts now?

 

It just amazes me how you think Tesla exists in this mysterious sales vacuum where only they have done certain things, like drop prices. The price part laughable since it was Tesla that ALSO started the trend of jacking up prices for no other reason than to pad Elon's wallet. The profit stat proves that. Funny how you don't mention how that practice led to the lower price tactic.

2022 Kia EV6  $41,400

2023 Kia EV6 $48,700 ( and lost $7500 tax credit)

2021 Mustang Mach-E  $42,895

2023 Muatang Mach-E $45,995

And keep in mind you can’t order the base Mach-E so the lowest cost is $57,995 and the tax credit drops to $3750 on April 18th compared to $7500 last year.  
 

2022 F150 Lightning $39,974

2023 F150 Lightning $59,974

And Kia and Ford are losing money on those EV’s so they keep jacking the price up.  
 

With the tax credit factored in a Kia EV6 is $14,000 more than a year ago, the F150 Lightning is $20,000 more, the Mach-E if you could order the base model is $6850 more.  
 

The Model Y Long Range price is $13,000 lower than last year plus $7500 tax credit so $20,500 cheaper than a year ago and there is a standard Model Y now available that is $3,000 less than the Long Range that you couldn’t get before. 
 

A Tesla is now cheaper than a Ford or Kia, game over, American car brand back on top.  USA!  USA!

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

2022 Kia EV6  $41,400

2023 Kia EV6 $48,700 ( and lost $7500 tax credit)

2021 Mustang Mach-E  $42,895

2023 Muatang Mach-E $45,995

And keep in mind you can’t order the base Mach-E so the lowest cost is $57,995 and the tax credit drops to $3750 on April 18th compared to $7500 last year.  
 

2022 F150 Lightning $39,974

2023 F150 Lightning $59,974

And Kia and Ford are losing money on those EV’s so they keep jacking the price up.  
 

With the tax credit factored in a Kia EV6 is $14,000 more than a year ago, the F150 Lightning is $20,000 more, the Mach-E if you could order the base model is $6850 more.  
 

The Model Y Long Range price is $13,000 lower than last year plus $7500 tax credit so $20,500 cheaper than a year ago and there is a standard Model Y now available that is $3,000 less than the Long Range that you couldn’t get before. 
 

A Tesla is now cheaper than a Ford or Kia, game over, American car brand back on top.  USA!  USA!

You still do not get it, pound the USA flag all you want as a German Auto driving hypocrite.

Tesla is in big trouble and the market sees this, piling up recalls due to poor quality and poor sales with 5 price cuts so far in 2023, analyst see more coming as Tesla tries to deliver on 50% growth that they never hit last year and is showing to have negative growth this year.

Tesla Has a New Problem -- and It's Much Bigger Than It Appears (msn.com)

Tesla shares drop after deliveries report raises concern of price cuts (cnbc.com)

I have to shake my head at all the people that Chant USA USA USA and yet drive NON-USA Auto's, the second largest purchase outside of your home and yet you send your hard earned money to a foreign company.

You can say you support American jobs all you want, but the profit still leaves this country for another.

Pricing means nothing to early adopters that are willing to pay top dollar to have the latest new thing.

Prices come down as economy of scale grows in production.

Right now, we have no real facts to back up prices on any of the EVs that are coming to market and with a global down turn, prices are going to go down.

4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

2021 Mustang Mach-E  $42,895

2023 Muatang Mach-E $45,995

Since you want to keep at it, here you go, Mach E price drop of up to $5700.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a42705579/2023-ford-mustang-mach-e-prices-drop-increased-production/

AND AGAIN, Tesla had been jacking up their prices for the last four years so I'm sure what argument you are trying to make but I'm pretty sure it's not the one you think it is.

4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

And Kia and Ford are losing money on those EV’s so they keep jacking the price up.

Again, Tesla kept doing that for years until they actually made a profit but somehow with others, this is the damning issue to you. BTW, one word for you, "inflation", something even your favorite brand had to realize, hence all of their price bumps.

https://www.carscoops.com/2022/08/mercedes-increases-prices-for-most-2023-models-g-class-leads-the-way-with-an-8150-hike/

2 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Since you want to keep at it, here you go, Mach E price drop of up to $5700.

 

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a42705579/2023-ford-mustang-mach-e-prices-drop-increased-production/

 

AND AGAIN, Tesla had been jacking up their prices for the last four years so I'm sure what argument you are trying to make but I'm pretty sure it's not the one you think it is.

Again, Tesla kept doing that for years until they actually made a profit but somehow with others, this is the damning issue to you. BTW, one word for you, "inflation", something even your favorite brand had to realize, hence all of their price bumps.

 

https://www.carscoops.com/2022/08/mercedes-increases-prices-for-most-2023-models-g-class-leads-the-way-with-an-8150-hike/

The Model Y comparable trim to comparable trim is cheaper than the Mach-E and has a $7500 tax credit vs $3750 that the Mach-E gets starting April 18th.  And the Model Y is faster with more range.  Probably why the Model Y outsold the Mach-E nearly 20 to 1 last quarter.

Let's look at the Ford sales chart:

Down 19.7% in Q1.  And this was their Tesla killer?  

And then there is the Kia EV6 down 36% for the year, 69% drop last month. 

And Hyundai Ioniq 5 down 8% this year, down 22% last month as they trend downward like Kia.

These bozos are what Tesla is supposed to be worried about?  

7 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

The Model Y comparable trim to comparable trim is cheaper than the Mach-E and has a $7500 tax credit vs $3750 that the Mach-E gets starting April 18th.  And the Model Y is faster with more range.  Probably why the Model Y outsold the Mach-E nearly 20 to 1 last quarter.

Let's look at the Ford sales chart:

Down 19.7% in Q1.  And this was their Tesla killer?  

And then there is the Kia EV6 down 36% for the year, 69% drop last month. 

And Hyundai Ioniq 5 down 8% this year, down 22% last month as they trend downward like Kia.

 

These bozos are what Tesla is supposed to be worried about?  

Again taken out of context. Tesla Y also did not sell well in the first year and half as they worked the bugs out of manufacturing and quality issues. 

Ford has had to deal with their own battery issues even on the Mach-e, KNOWN issue on both Mach e and F150 lighting.

Kia and Hyundai have both been very clear that they are moving production to the states to get full rebate credit and as such shifted EV shipments to China and Europe allowing existing inventory to be sold here as they bring online production here.

THIS IS NOT Tesla beating them, but normal basic ramp up of production for all new products.

As I have posted, Tesla is falling off on sales, very clear to everyone and quality is still a big issue for them.

Global Economy is falling off so people are holding off on buying. Everyone is down including Tesla which is a -1% sales shrink for Q1 2023.

8 hours ago, smk4565 said:

The Model Y comparable trim to comparable trim is cheaper than the Mach-E and has a $7500 tax credit vs $3750 that the Mach-E gets starting April 18th.

Stop moving the damn bar FFS. Your posts was about price drops and I gave it to you. No mention of tax credits prior so you don’t get to bring it up now.  Again, Tesla is on their 3rd price drop in the last four months yet their lackluster quarterly reports shows that it did not help them beat their expected numbers, end of story because that’s where this nonsense started before you started with your apples to oranges BS. No amount of talking about tax credits changes those facts. 

8 hours ago, smk4565 said:

And Hyundai Ioniq 5 down 8% this year, down 22% last month as they trend downward like Kia

First five years of Tesla sales and production issues for 1000 Alex. 
 

You do have a context issue. Put the Tesla Pom poms down and tell us how “well” Tesla was doing the first 5 years of mass production. Make sure you include their “fine” quality and “reliability” standards that have been a part of Tesla since day one. Go ahead. Give the truth a shot for once. 

16 hours ago, smk4565 said:

2021 Mustang Mach-E  $42,895

2023 Muatang Mach-E $45,995

And keep in mind you can’t order the base Mach-E so the lowest cost is $57,995 and the tax credit drops to $3750 on April 18th compared to $7500 last year.  

Let me show you where your lack of context is getting you bit in the A. The above numbers are true for the Mach-E (for the 2021 and 2023 figures only, not the $57,995 figure). Bravo to that. However (after a whole 20 second search near my location)...

Clicked "Search inventory" and...

 The window sticker....

Last I checked, that is:

A.) Considerably LESS than the $57K figure you just used.

B.)Still LESS than a base model Y (that has less standard features than the Mach-E thus killing the tax credit advantage of $3750 enjoyed by the Y), even AFTER the recent price drop on it. 

And this AFTER an even bigger 20% cut in January. Basically, it took those price drops to put the Y in the same breath as the Mach-E, when talking about competitive pricing. Just think about that before replying because I am not going to keep spelling out the obvious here.

Or...

...should I just go ahead and move that bar for you and save your back from the repeated lifting?

9 hours ago, David said:

THIS IS NOT Tesla beating them, but normal basic ramp up of production for all new products.

As I have posted, Tesla is falling off on sales, 

How are they ramping up if they sold less cars?  Ford, Hyundai and Kia all said they would produce more EVs in 2023 than in 2022, yet we see sales down 8% on Ioniq 5, down 19% on Mach-E, down 36% on EV6 in the US, but the EV6 is down in Europe too.
 

Tesla 3/Y sales globally were up 44% in Q1 of 2023 and set a record for their best quarter ever.  
 

These legacy OEMs have been saying for years they are ramping up, but they aren’t actually doing it.  Tesla is going to sell over 1 million Model Y this year, so Ford should be setting a goal of 1 million Mach-E if they want to be on par with Tesla.  And same with Kia or Hyundai or Chevy Equinox EV, etc.  

6 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Let me show you where your lack of context is getting you bit in the A. The above numbers are true for the Mach-E (for the 2021 and 2023 figures only, not the $57,995 figure). Bravo to that. However (after a whole 20 second search near my location)...

 

Clicked "Search inventory" and...

 

Last I checked, that is:

A.) Considerably LESS than the $57K figure you just used.

 

B.)Still LESS than a base model Y (that has less standard features than the Mach-E thus killing the tax credit advantage of $3750 enjoyed by the Y), even AFTER the recent price drop on it. 

 

And this AFTER an even bigger 20% cut in January. Basically, it took those price drops to put the Y in the same breath as the Mach-E, when talking about competitive pricing. Just think about that before replying because I am not going to keep spelling out the obvious here.

 

Or...

...should I just go ahead and move that bar for you and save your back from the repeated lifting?

 

The cheapest Mach-E you can order is the California Route 1 at $57k.  I did search Shults Ford who has 2 in stock, 1 Select at $50,535 and 2022 Premium at $58,815.  And that is assuming they sell at msrp which I think they do but some dealers still mark up.

They are in similar price points before tax credit but the big difference is Tesla makes money and Ford is losing money on every EV they sell.   Tesla can afford to cut prices because they have shredded manufacturing cost so much.  
 

Ford can’t afford to do that, probably why the F150 Lightning price is up 50% since launch and still not profitable.  And they could get away with that since there aren’t other EV pick ups except the high dollar Rivian. when the Ram, Chevy, Cybertruck hit hit market there is going to be competition on price.

I’m done with @smk4565 . I just literally gave you a real world example and you move that damn bar yet again (like I knew you would). Stop it. Seriously. You were proven wrong and you still want to act like you weren’t shown the facts? Go to a Tesla forum with that biased nonsense. 

53 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

I’m done with @smk4565 . I just literally gave you a real world example and you move that damn bar yet again (like I knew you would). Stop it. Seriously. You were proven wrong and you still want to act like you weren’t shown the facts? Go to a Tesla forum with that biased nonsense. 

In your own example the cheapest Mach-E in 2021 was $42k, right now it is $50k with half the Tax credit amount.  Thus the price went up.

The cheapest Model Y in 2022 was $65,990 with no tax credit, now the cheapest Model Y is $49,990 with a $7500 credit (if the buyer qualifies of course) dropping it to $42,490.  It is $23k less at a time when every other car has rising prices.  Once you factor in gasoline and maintenance it is probably cheaper to buy a Model Y than most midsize ICE SUVs.

51 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

I’m done with @smk4565 . I just literally gave you a real world example and you move that damn bar yet again (like I knew you would). Stop it. Seriously. You were proven wrong and you still want to act like you weren’t shown the facts? Go to a Tesla forum with that biased nonsense. 

I posted in our company slack social-autos channel about Tesla and I was also attacked the same way by the Tesla Faithful that see nothing wrong with Musk or with the price cuts using the same idiot logic that SMK has attempted to use to justify ignoring the facts / truth.

Been pointing out the same thing as you and I have here and have gotten the same ignore it with crickets sound or the traditional attack of fake media, lies not the truth only Musk tells the truth.

I honestly just do not get how much a person can be a lemming in willing to blindly follow a brand/person and not use their head.

Reminds me of something my grandfathers always said to me, common sense is not so common and just because you are book smart and educated does not mean you actually can apply critical thinking skills to the issues of the day.

America has improved in having more college educated people, but we have also increased it would seem the lemming factor. 

I noticed that just here in Seattle we still hired last year for our internship program a little over 100 people, but we did not hire a single individual that had a bachelor degree or working on a bachelors degree. Everyone was working on their masters, doctorate or PHD. We have truly moved the bar as they say in what is expected to have a better life of comfort, income, etc.

THE RAM will sell well I believe, much like how Ford and GM have sold out their first editions of these trucks.

We have many people who have the income to afford the $100,000 truck, yet with that stated, one valid point that SMK does make is that for growth, the ability to deliver the bottom end price points is a requirement for any auto company.

GM seems to be on track and I believe with the delivery of the Equinox, Blazer and base Silverado EV autos that we will see GM ramp up and by 2025 have a serious ability to surpass Tesla. 

I fully expect VW to surpass Tesla next year even with a recession this year. We will still have folks that need to replace autos and the global movement is to EVs IMHO.

I can see folks like @Robert Hall Going the 4XE route or Hybrid of his next Jeep GC or Wagoneer what ever type he decides to do.

I will say that with the RAM REV, I would tell everyone to only buy at least the 20 kWh Home chargers so you can maximize the speed of recharging overnight.

9 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

In your own example the cheapest Mach-E in 2021 was $42k, right now it is $50k with half the Tax credit amount.  Thus the price went up.

The cheapest Model Y in 2022 was $65,990 with no tax credit, now the cheapest Model Y is $49,990 with a $7500 credit (if the buyer qualifies of course) dropping it to $42,490.  It is $23k less at a time when every other car has rising prices.  Once you factor in gasoline and maintenance it is probably cheaper to buy a Model Y than most midsize ICE SUVs.

Tesla has NEVER delivered on their bottom priced autos. I will believe it when we see the Tesla stores have these entry level autos on their lots. Anyone can give a low price and @surreal1272 proved there was an MSRP $50K on the lot at a dealership.

Here is the local inventory for here and I have one priced MSRP @47K, multiples at $50K and a few more that go up from there. I have yet to see any type of low prices of the increasing inventory at Tesla lots here.

Realizing that the attached image might be hard for some to see, I have done multiple cuts from the same image to show you a better look.

Back to RAM REV,

@Drew Dowdell While the press release did not show the FRUNK, the video shows it opens and closes showing some sort of door on the back wall. 

The interior pictures also do not show  anything clearly nor do they show the truck with the midgate down.

QUESTION: Is RAM going to deliver on the FRUNK Door so you can have long items from the bed to the Frunk down the center? Have you heard anything on this?

Also, was there any size give for what looks like a weird little screen in front of the front passenger seat?

1 hour ago, David said:

Anyone can give a low price and @surreal1272 proved there was an MSRP $50K on the lot at a dealership.

And then some. 
 

Which is still cheaper than his $57K claim and again, how many price bumps from Tesla over the past five years and he is going to harp on others for doing less? That’s why a discussion can’t be had with him. Just some serious bar moving gymnastics and I’m over this childish fanboy nonsense. The sad thing is that while he touts this “huge” price drop, he failed to realize that this new price merely aligns with its original price before all the bumps over the years (Remember, the Y was supposed to start at closer to $40K than $50K and we know what happened there). He also fails to see that the price drops are to help lagging sales. Let me say it again. It’s to help LAGGING SALES. Big sellers don’t need a price drop but shhhh, apparently Tesla is the exception to basic economics. 

My favorite lie of the year.

”Tesla has spent $0 in advertising”

A $44 billion purchase of Twitter would beg to differ. Elon is Tesla and is using Twitter to push Tesla and everything else backed by him when he’s not sounding like a complete jackass on there. 

3 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

My favorite lie of the year.

 

”Tesla has spent $0 in advertising”

 

A $44 billion purchase of Twitter would beg to differ. Elon is Tesla and is using Twitter to push Tesla and everything else backed by him when he’s not sounding like a complete jackass on there. 

The biggest Marketing and Fake claim move idiot Musk has ever made.

It's funny how that illustration shows all the different colors for the Model Y, anytime I see one of  them on the road it's always white w/ black wheels..so bland and fecal. 

21 hours ago, David said:

Back to RAM REV,

@Drew Dowdell While the press release did not show the FRUNK, the video shows it opens and closes showing some sort of door on the back wall. 

The interior pictures also do not show  anything clearly nor do they show the truck with the midgate down.

QUESTION: Is RAM going to deliver on the FRUNK Door so you can have long items from the bed to the Frunk down the center? Have you heard anything on this?

Also, was there any size give for what looks like a weird little screen in front of the front passenger seat?

Interesting...a passenger side screen like how Jeep does on some models, but not really well integrated...looks like an afterthought...

On 4/7/2023 at 3:59 PM, smk4565 said:

The Model Y Long Range price is $13,000 lower than last year plus $7500 tax credit so $20,500 cheaper than a year ago and there is a standard Model Y now available that is $3,000 less than the Long Range that you couldn’t get before. 

I know you're doing your short-term comparisons but the Model Y is still $11,000 more than when it came out. So that $13,000 drop from last year still doesn't cover it's original starting price in 2018. 

It was originally priced at $39,000 and now it starts at $49,990. 

Nothing is anywhere near as cut and dry as you're making it seem with Tesla. They change so much with their pricing and packaging even quarterly. 

20 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I know you're doing your short-term comparisons but the Model Y is still $11,000 more than when it came out. So that $13,000 drop from last year still doesn't cover it's original starting price in 2018. 

It was originally priced at $39,000 and now it starts at $49,990. 

Nothing is anywhere near as cut and dry as you're making it seem with Tesla. They change so much with their pricing and packaging even quarterly. 

Excellent point made, they are still $11,000 higher than the original starting price.

I thought automakers SLASHING prices was a bad thing. A very VERY bad thing...

https://money.cnn.com/2011/06/02/autos/american_cars_to-do_list/index.htm

By Peter Valdes-Dapena June 6, 2011: 10:17 AM ET

Don't reach for the rebate gun: Detroit automakers also need to make sure they're selling cars the right way.

Over-reliance on rebates is bad for a couple of reasons. For one thing a $5,000 rebate costs at least $5,000. For another, rebates damage product image and resale value -- with rebates this big the car must be garbage, right?

Fortunately, Ford, Chrysler and GM are all moving in the correct direction on this stuff. Fleet sales, as a proportion of overall sales, are shrinking and rebates are down, too.

https://www.forbes.com/2008/07/17/gm-ford-chrysler-biz-man-cx_sk_0717automistakes_slide.html?sh=303e74d25df2

Jul 17, 2008,01:30pm EDT

 

Quote

 

Addiction to Sales Incentives

Just about every manufacturer discounts a little in order to close the deal, but U.S. brands have made excessive use of rebates, cheap financing and other incentives. Done in such excess, incentives hurt resale value, force manufacturers to cheapen products and condition consumers to wait for the next deal.

 

 

So...all of a sudden, Tesla does this rebate thing, a thing that is as old as car making itself,i s a good thing. But when GM, Ford and Chryco were doing it all through the 1980s 1990s and 2000s, we were crucifying them. 

It is strange how we will use the same course of action for different companies for relatively same circumstances and yet be OPPOSITE of our opinions of said course of action for said companies involved.

Thankfully though, sometimes REALITY does sink in... 

Investors OF Telsa are rethinking their stance of Tesla profitability and are starting to second guess Tesla's direction and economic reality and are more in line to DEMAND the same phoquing accountablilty that they have demanded GM, Ford and Chrysler ALL those decades prior...    Tesla seems to get the benefit of the doubt on thjis as we speak, but DOUBT is slowly kreeping in... 

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/03/tesla-shares-drop-after-deliveries-report-raises-concern-of-price-cuts.html

PUBLISHED MON, APR 3 2023 2:12 PM EDT UPDATED MON, APR 3 2023 8:53 PM EDT

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500 miles is excessive, Give me a midsized sedan w/ a 200mi range for ~ 35k and I'll be all in.  Ioniq 6 is looking tempting but I cant get over the front end.   

8 minutes ago, SDotJizzle said:

500 miles is excessive, Give me a midsized sedan w/ a 200mi range for ~ 35k and I'll be all in.  Ioniq 6 is looking tempting but I cant get over the front end.   

Welcome SDotJizzle, look forward to your posting.