Watch the Ford Mustang Mach-E Unveiling Live, 9 PM Eastern

2 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Do those 'purists' actually even buy new cars, though ?    Or do they just wallow in nostalgia for the past...

These purist do buy cars.  They forced Porsche to bring back manual transmission for example.

31 minutes ago, ykX said:

These people are actual customers that buy that product, whatever that is.  So I think it is in the best interest of the companies to listen to them.

911 became better by going liquid cooled.

Vette became better by going mid-engine.

Mustang name used on a crossover is not even close to these examples.

The people who are pissed are absolutely NOT EV SUV customers though so it's a moot point they're upset. 

How about Aston Martin making an SUV, Lamborghini making an SUV, Rolls Royce making an SUV, Maserati making an SUV, Ferrari making an SUV, Porsche making an SUV... all companies that were 100% cars and sports cars all the way(minus probably Rolls) and now they're making or have plans to make SUVs. 

18 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

The people who are pissed are absolutely NOT EV SUV customers though so it's a moot point they're upset. 

How about Aston Martin making an SUV, Lamborghini making an SUV, Rolls Royce making an SUV, Maserati making an SUV, Ferrari making an SUV, Porsche making an SUV... all companies that were 100% cars and sports cars all the way(minus probably Rolls) and now they're making or have plans to make SUVs. 

It will be interesting to see the reaction when Chevy unveils the C9---a Corvette EV CUV.  

46 minutes ago, ykX said:

These people are actual customers that buy that product, whatever that is.  So I think it is in the best interest of the companies to listen to them.

911 became better by going liquid cooled.

Vette became better by going mid-engine.

Mustang name used on a crossover is not even close to these examples.

Oh yes it is...

Choose to ignore, because you want to be right at all costs...

Choose to defend triggered folk because you want to cry about how naming this EV a Mustang is a bad thing...

@Robert Hall said, only time will tell if naming this EV a Mustang is a bad thing. And even then, if it fails in the market place, it may have NOTHING to do with its name.

The Oldsmobile Intrigue, would it have sold better if it kept the Cutlass Supreme name? 

All those things...are just noise...

Point being, triggered folk complain about everything. But you wanted to ignore that message and went another way...

About how the products improved.

How about actually arguing the REAL points and cut the BS???!!!

Point is, people whine about everything, and you know what?  LIFE GOES ON ANYWAY!!!

THAT WAS THE POINT!!!

Just because an EV is called a Mustang does NOTHING to hurt ANYTHING...

Their beloved 2 door V8 powered sports coupe is STILL on sale...therefore...just noise.

42 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Do those 'purists' actually even buy new cars, though ?    Or do they just wallow in nostalgia for the past...

That right there is something to think about, ykX...

1 hour ago, USA-1 said:

Corvette purists are not really pissed and not on the same level at all, I'm one and I'm happy with the ME car so are many other Corvette guys. We do wish that they'd keep the front engine layout as well and GM may reconsider in the future. 

THAT right there, is me!!!

Im happy for mid-engined. Im sad for front engine going away.

Im super excited for the performance unlocking so Corvette (and America)  could REALLY kick some Ferrari, Porsche, McLaren, Lamborghini, Pagani, (European) ass.   (The Ford GT40 was only in racing and not in street car form) and Ford GT (this generation) is just another high dollar, low volume (ho-hum?) garage queen.  

(what I mean by Ho-Hum could be explained...maybe on an another thread)

But at the same time, I love how iconic the "classic"  front (mid)engined, high horsepower big V8 Vette has become. And I hope Chevrolet re-visits that in the future.  The Corvette was also a GREAT GT car. A "proper" V8 front engined bruiser of a cruiser GT car. And now, that is gone.  

THAT is why I say that Corvette needs SEVERAL models to properly compete with ANY European brand one on one.

To have a model for EVERY model that  Ferrari or Porsche has in their respective stables.  As is, well from the C7 and down, the Corvette had to do battle with a Boxter, Cayman, 911, 928, 918, Ferrari 488, Superfast, Laferrari....you get the idea 

Now with the C8, at least its mid-engined and the Z06 and Zora ZR-1 and the Z-51 (all the same car mind you) could handle all that without any of the Corvette hatin' BS from Europe (understandable) but from the USA too (like WTF is up with that???!!!)...

Disclaimer: almost a model for every Ferrari and/or Porsche  model...as many models as Corvette/Chevy/GM can handle to build and sell successfully at a profit without diminishing the brand... hey if that means only one model...OK

21 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

It will be interesting to see the reaction when Chevy unveils the C9---a Corvette EV CUV.  

Doubt it. And Corvette buyers are a totally different demographic than Mustang buyers, not even close. Now a Camaro EUV would be a better example, but this isn't in GM's plans now or in the future and with the kickback Ford is getting from purist 'Stang owners it makes it even less likely. They're leading the new BEV3 with Cadillac so they are going premium luxury on the new skateboard platform. 

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

 

Do those 'purists' actually even buy new cars, though ?    Or do they just wallow in nostalgia for the past...

Yes, there are many different generations of purists, so yes purists whether they be younger or older purists do buy the new cars.

1 hour ago, ykX said:

These purist do buy cars.  They forced Porsche to bring back manual transmission for example.

Nope.

Porsche ENGINEERS realized that driving pleasure was lost. 

Porsche ENGINEERS realized that folk, NOT JUST PURISTS, want to experience the pleasure and joy of what Porsche cars were all about. 

Porsche ENGINEERS realized that its NOT all about big horsepower and epic performance numbers...

https://www.wired.com/2015/05/porsche-calls-end-horsepower-war/

They are planning to tone the horsepower down as well in the future. Keep on improving the 911 with numbers, but also keep a balanced 911 with less HP, less weight for the joys of driving.

I got but one link. I am too lazy to search up others, but I did read that awhile ago what Porsche wants to do with their future 911. And this article was from 2015...

Quote

 

PORSCHE'S 2015 911 GT3 is a pared-down, track-derived homage to what the German brand does best. It makes 475 hp and enough grip to liquify your kidneys. It redlines at a monster 9,000 rpm. It's faster than any GT3 before it.

And it's … fine. Very good, even. But not great. An astonishing piece of engineering, yes, but in the pantheon of hot Porsches, kind of a dead fish. Steering feel that isn't a patch on a 10-year-old 911's. A huge, uninviting cockpit. No manual transmission.

As a rule, new cars get faster, but not always better. This is partly because the automotive industry is a game of metrics. Cars are built by engineers, and engineering runs on numbers. Couple this with the needs of marketing, where bigger is always better, and you have a business driven to continually top itself. Each new car must be safer, quieter, more comfortable, and more capable than those before it.

When it comes to performance, the measuring stick traditionally has been horsepower. It's an easy thing for the public to process, a number that almost directly relates to potential velocity. Problem is, more power means more weight. And while the industry is working on ways to lighten the load (largely through the extensive use of carbon-fiber instead of steel), the scales aren't tipping lighter. Which in turn requires more engine output, to carry the same speed in a straight line.

 

This may be about to change. In an interview with England's *Car *magazine, Andreas Preuninger, Porsche's GT-car chief, said the marque's future range-toppers won't chase numbers.

 

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

The people who are pissed are absolutely NOT EV SUV customers though so it's a moot point they're upset. 

How about Aston Martin making an SUV, Lamborghini making an SUV, Rolls Royce making an SUV, Maserati making an SUV, Ferrari making an SUV, Porsche making an SUV... all companies that were 100% cars and sports cars all the way(minus probably Rolls) and now they're making or have plans to make SUVs. 

All the luxury marques you mentioned were really forced to go with an SUV model(s) because the market demanded it. Ford already has SUV's with Ford and Lincoln so they're covered.

I think this Mach-E madness is more about a fear that the "muscle car icon" will lose it's image by becoming a line of different models like an SUV that is also an EV and the pony car V8 purists aren't good with that.  

34 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

Doubt it. And Corvette buyers are a totally different demographic than Mustang buyers, not even close. 

And usually much older..typical Corvette owners tend to be over 65, I believe...

2 hours ago, ykX said:

https://www.change.org/p/ford-motor-company-name-change-mustang-mach-e

I am curious how many eventually will sign.

Of course, no way Ford will change the name.  Still, will be pretty good indication how many Mustang fans are not happy with the name.

Just now over 1,700 have signed and it was still racking up pretty consistently, not sure if it's actual real time signatures. Could get interesting with all the greedy attorneys' out there.

Just now, USA-1 said:

Just now over 1,700 have signed and it was still racking up pretty consistently, not sure if it's actual real time signatures. Could get interesting with all the greedy attorneys' out there.

1700 is nothing, though...would be interesting to know how many are owners of the current car..

3 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

And usually much older..typical Corvette owners tend to be over 65, I believe...

 

 

Average is around 60 right now and that's the average, but the C5 being a huge improvement over the C4 then the even more technologically advanced C6 and C7 GM brought in a lot of Gen. X'ers to Corvette like myself. C8 will bring in even more younger buyers to drop the average even more. ?? 

8 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

1700 is nothing, though...would be interesting to know how many are owners of the current car..

Right, but it just started and it was racking up about 1 sig. every 2 or 3 sec. Maybe we should all sign it to skew the outcome ?

About a Corvette SUV, EV or otherwise?

Quote

 

Leno:" My all time favorite thing  is that there is no Corvette SUV."

Tadge: "That is your favorite is it? Because I get that question all the time.  Why dont you do a Corvette SUV?  Porsche does it, why dont you do it"

Leno: "Well they have to do it."

Tadge:  "The Corvette has been successful I think, because we've stuck to our knit, you know, we've kept focused on what we do and people say we've deviated from what we do.  Its still a 2 passenger car, V8 powered, its the driving experience"

 

I do not think that Corvette engineers and Corvette marketing is ready for a Corvette SUV anytime soon.

There has been some people that are intrigued by a Corvette SUV...but that is where it ends. At least until Tadge is no longer the chief Corvette engineer...

But even with the Mustang naming fake outrage...

28 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

I think this Mach-E madness is more about a fear that the "muscle car icon" will lose it's image by becoming a line of different models like an SUV that is also an EV and the pony car V8 purists aren't good with that.  

Tadge even says it for the Corvette:

Quote

"The Corvette has been successful I think, because we've stuck to our knit, you know, we've kept focused on what we do and people say we've deviated from what we do.  Its still a 2 passenger car, V8 powered, its the driving experience"

The Mustang 2 door V8 powered coupe is still with us  with special editions coming out. In fact, the GT500 with close to 800 horsepower just got revealed too. So that argument falls apart.

 The Mustang is still sold and NOT going anywhere...

2 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

 

The Mustang 2 door V8 powered coupe is still with us  with special editions coming out. In fact, the GT500 with close to 800 horsepower just got revealed too. So that argument falls apart.

 The Mustang is still sold and NOT going anywhere...

 

I was been facetious about a Corvette EV CUV..but you never know, we live in interesting times of change.

I wouldn't mind having another Mustang sooner or later...maybe a convertible, definitely a V8 w/ manual.    But I also like the idea of a Challenger w/ V8 and manual. 

1 minute ago, oldshurst442 said:

About a Corvette SUV, EV or otherwise?

 

 

 

I do not think that Corvette engineers and Corvette marketing is ready for a Corvette SUV anytime soon.

There has been some people that are intrigued by a Corvette SUV...but that is where it ends. At least until Tadge is no longer the chief Corvette engineer...

But even with the Mustang naming fake outrage...

Tadge even says it for the Corvette:

The Mustang 2 door V8 powered coupe is still with us  with special editions coming out. In fact, the GT500 with close to 800 horsepower just got revealed too. So that argument falls apart.

 The Mustang is still sold and NOT going anywhere...

 

 

Yep, I caught that too..."because they had to." Porsche just like other luxury car and luxury sports car marques had to build an SUV to align with the market demand.

1 minute ago, USA-1 said:

Right, but it just started and it was racking up about 1 sig. every 2 or 3 sec. Maybe we should all sign it to skew the outcome ?

Don Cherry, had 180 000 votes in just 2 days...

I dont know how many he has now.  Franky I dont care, but...

Remember this from a smaller country. Granted, Canadians are probably more passionate about hockey than there are passionate Mustang  purists around. But still...1700 does seem miniscule.

Just now, oldshurst442 said:

Don Cherry, had 180 000 votes in just 2 days...

I dont know how many he has now.  Franky I dont care, but...

Remember this from a smaller country. Granted, Canadians are probably more passionate about hockey than there are passionate Mustang  purists around. But still...1700 does seem miniscule.

 

Yeah, you Canadians and your hockey is quite a stark contrast to anything else really! LOL!! ?

I used to work in a small company in Denver that was owned and majority staffed by Canadians from Saskatchewan.  Hockey and hard drinking were their two main passions...it was a work hard, party hard place..had a great 4 years there..

On 11/18/2019 at 6:26 PM, ocnblu said:

? Never gonna happen with Cadillac around. Porsche and others had to add an SUV per market demand.

6 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

? Never gonna happen with Cadillac around. Porsche and others had to add an SUV per market demand.

GM could use a Cayenne competitor... 

1 hour ago, USA-1 said:

Average is around 60 right now and that's the average, but the C5 being a huge improvement over the C4 then the even more technologically advanced C6 and C7 GM brought in a lot of Gen. X'ers to Corvette like myself. C8 will bring in even more younger buyers to drop the average even more. ?? 

That Corvette Jay Leno/Tadge  video  said that they sold more than expected C7s in the Japanese market. Australians it seems are salivating for the  C8 as GM will be doing right hand drive C8s for the UK, Japan and Australia. 

The C7 broke new ground for new buyers.  I agree with you that the C8 will fetch even more. And not just with the younger buyers market criteria.  But buyers from all walks of life in all kinds of marketing criteria. The C8 will get the Euro snob, will get the Japanese sports car enthusiast. The C8 will get the guy that collects Ferraris and drives his Ferraris once a year, who daily drives another Euro snob car, but now he gets a chance  to actually enjoy DAILY DRIVING a mid-engine exotic-like sports car with no fear of it breaking down or getting it dinged with all the mid-engine car snobbery with his VETTE!!!  The C8 will get Porschefiles too.  

I hope Corvette could keep all these new buyers. That means that the C8 should NOT be a disappointment in the quality control area...

49 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

Yep, I caught that too..."because they had to." Porsche just like other luxury car and luxury sports car marques had to build an SUV to align with the market demand.

Porsche had to add SUVs because they going insolvent on the sports cars.
No one was demanding a Porsche SUV, but thankfully for Porsche, they're taking up the volume slack in a big way.

6 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

That Corvette Jay Leno/Tadge  video  said that they sold more than expected C7s in the Japanese market. Australians it seems are salivating for the  C8 as GM will be doing right hand drive C8s for the UK, Japan and Australia. 

The C7 broke new ground for new buyers.  I agree with you that the C8 will fetch even more. And not just with the younger buyers market criteria.  But buyers from all walks of life in all kinds of marketing criteria. The C8 will get the Euro snob, will get the Japanese sports car enthusiast. The C8 will get the guy that collects Ferraris and drives his Ferraris once a year, who daily drives another Euro snob car, but now he gets a chance  to actually enjoy DAILY DRIVING a mid-engine exotic-like sports car with no fear of it breaking down or getting it dinged with all the mid-engine car snobbery with his VETTE!!!  The C8 will get Porschefiles too.  

I hope Corvette could keep all these new buyers. That means that the C8 should NOT be a disappointment in the quality control area...

 

 

 

Exactly. I can tell you quality is top notch inside and out from the one I sat in at the reveal event I went to for the C8. They had hardcore Porsche guys already placing orders and Ferrari and R8 guys rolling in to check it out. Pretty impressive turnout really.  

9 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Porsche had to add SUVs because they going insolvent on the sports cars.
No one was demanding a Porsche SUV, but thankfully for Porsche, they're taking up the volume slack in a big way.

The SUV market demand not Porsche necessarily, but they saw the demand and jumped on it. The VW Touareg was the same exact SUV as the Cayenne, AWD chassis and all, only part of the body that was different was the front clip, so big savings for VW in that sense. Kind of like GM does with the fullsize SUV triplets minus S'clade taillights. 

^ It was published in an interview with some Porsche mouthpiece / exec; that Porsche would have gone under if they didn't do CUVs.
Demand bought them, but they appeared to keep everything else from disappearing.

Maybe we will get a mustang Mach transit connect too

7 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

It will be interesting to see the reaction when Chevy unveils the C9---a Corvette EV CUV.  

I will be one to sign up for a Corvette inspired SUV/CUV mid size EV.  

SS Trailblazer was the last of a breed that needs to come back. Might as well expand the Corvette family to be performance race inspired EV cars and SUV/CUVs.

^ Nooope; name it sumtin else.

Musk likes the Mach E

He's gotta stick his nose in.  He needs to STFU.

He does have a 7-year overdue Model Y to finish designing...

13 hours ago, USA-1 said:

All the luxury marques you mentioned were really forced to go with an SUV model(s) because the market demanded it. Ford already has SUV's with Ford and Lincoln so they're covered.

I think this Mach-E madness is more about a fear that the "muscle car icon" will lose it's image by becoming a line of different models like an SUV that is also an EV and the pony car V8 purists aren't good with that.  

Exactly my point which seems most people don't see.

Porsche made an SUV but didn't call it 911.

That is the whole point, not the fact that Ford made EV crossover, but the fact that it called it a Mustang.

15 hours ago, USA-1 said:

All the luxury marques you mentioned were really forced to go with an SUV model(s) because the market demanded it. Ford already has SUV's with Ford and Lincoln so they're covered.

I think this Mach-E madness is more about a fear that the "muscle car icon" will lose it's image by becoming a line of different models like an SUV that is also an EV and the pony car V8 purists aren't good with that.  

They were but they were 100% sports car brands just like the "Mustang" brand has always been. 

People shall not fear that the 2-door car will not be going away. This is just an addition. 

15 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

1700 is nothing, though...would be interesting to know how many are owners of the current car..

I think it would have to be well into the millions to have even the slightest impact on Ford. 

On 11/19/2019 at 2:27 AM, ocnblu said:

Nah, I have this thing called the interwebs.  I can go onto it and READ Ford Motor Company's page on, like, Facebook and stuff.  And there is a multitude of other postesses over onto there too, on other pages.  Not too many positive commentators over there, Bub.  Maybe like 3 in Loonburg, California, but that's it.

Strange but what I see posted by Facebook puts it clearly in the FakeNews Category after all the CEO loves to sell lying ads on Faceplant, worst company every.

11 hours ago, regfootball said:

Maybe we will get a mustang Mach transit connect too

I will compliment the photoshop person as that is a far better nose on that minivan than what is currently on there.

If the only thing people are complaining about is the name of the vehicle, they did a good job. 

They created conversation and headlines all over the place and the only negative is the name. 

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

They were but they were 100% sports car brands just like the "Mustang" brand has always been. 

People shall not fear that the 2-door car will not be going away. This is just an addition. 

I think it would have to be well into the millions to have even the slightest impact on Ford. 

They are all Makes not a Model within a larger brand like the Mustang that's the main difference. They didn't have another brand to fall back on with SUV's/CUV's like Ford or Chevy so they were forced into building SUV's because the market demanded them. 

Obviously, I was being facetious about the signatures. ?

6 hours ago, ocnblu said:

He's gotta stick his nose in.  He needs to STFU.

He just wants to make it like every other automaker is following his lead. Musk is a pretty narcissistic guy.

Im only 5 minutes into this video when I decided this video needs to be shared on this thread. Afterhours Autoline.

It addresses the complaints about the naming in the first 5 minutes and I guess the reasons why Ford named it the way they did.  At 5 minutes in, reasons why: Mustang is a recognizable name, folk with families could now own a "Mustang" and 4 doors sell and make money....but rest assured, the 2 door Mustang we all love aint going away, au contraire, more special editions are coming...and these products are too hot to talk about just yet...be patient about them...

Ill continue listening to it now as well to find out more... 

Enjoy.  

Edge-E would have been more appropriate if they wanted to make a fake CUV to emulate an authentic one.

13 hours ago, ocnblu said:

He's gotta stick his nose in.  He needs to STFU.

Show us on the doll where Elon touched you. 

7 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Show us on the doll where Elon touched you. 

I am not getting anywhere near your blow-up doll, Bucko.

15 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Edge-E would have been more appropriate if they wanted to make a fake CUV to emulate an authentic one.

I stated the same thing! Edge-E (Edgy) The Ford Edgy. HA!

Edgy..like that.  When I had my diesel Escort 30+ years ago I nicknamed it 'Esky'.    And I could see referring to an Encore as 'Ency' or 'Enky'.. 

• RE the Autoline video; the Charger reference doesn't fit because there was a what - 20 year break in the Charger line? The Charger wasn't "changed"; there WAS no Charger in the general vicinity of the 4-dr Charger.
• RE the Mach-E - the more I see of it the more I like it (I do prefer the non-GT nose tho).

^^^ Me too on the nose. 

I agree with your Charger comment. 

https://www.thedrive.com/news/31154/47-percent-of-people-wish-the-2021-ford-mustang-mach-e-had-a-different-name-survey

"Autolist questioned approximately 1,000 members of the general public shopping for new vehicles and found that 47 percent disapprove of using the Mustang nameplate on an electric crossover. Only 19 percent supported Ford's choice to call the Mach-E a Mustang, and 34 percent assigned themselves to neither camp."

Note that survey respondents weren't Change.org petition-signing Mustang hardliners. These were Averages Joes and Janes who, given a choice between the Mach-E and the Tesla Model Y, said they'd still pick the Ford 51 percent of the time. While opinions of Tesla among the surveyed group appeared to be mostly positive, Ford-allying respondents said they trusted the Blue Oval and its service network more than they did Tesla, which they weren't certain has much of a future."

4 hours ago, ykX said:

https://www.thedrive.com/news/31154/47-percent-of-people-wish-the-2021-ford-mustang-mach-e-had-a-different-name-survey

"Autolist questioned approximately 1,000 members of the general public shopping for new vehicles and found that 47 percent disapprove of using the Mustang nameplate on an electric crossover. Only 19 percent supported Ford's choice to call the Mach-E a Mustang, and 34 percent assigned themselves to neither camp."

Note that survey respondents weren't Change.org petition-signing Mustang hardliners. These were Averages Joes and Janes who, given a choice between the Mach-E and the Tesla Model Y, said they'd still pick the Ford 51 percent of the time. While opinions of Tesla among the surveyed group appeared to be mostly positive, Ford-allying respondents said they trusted the Blue Oval and its service network more than they did Tesla, which they weren't certain has much of a future."

 

According to this survey, 51% want the Mustang Mach e over the Tesla at 49%.

https://electrek.co/2019/11/21/survey-consumers-split-between-ford-mustang-mach-e-tesla-model-y/

My wife likes the looks and name of this EV, wants to see one in person as a possible replacement to our SS. Interesting ?

33 minutes ago, dfelt said:

According to this survey, 51% want the Mustang Mach e over the Tesla at 49%.

https://electrek.co/2019/11/21/survey-consumers-split-between-ford-mustang-mach-e-tesla-model-y/

My wife likes the looks and name of this EV, wants to see one in person as a possible replacement to our SS. Interesting ?

They are talking about exactly same survey.

Great read on how the Mach e got the mustang name.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/23/heres-how-the-ford-mustang-mach-e-earned-the-iconic-pony-badge.html

Totally agree with Ford on this. Love their response to the Bolt, Leaf, Etc.