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  • William Maley
    William Maley

    Frankfurt 2017: Mercedes-AMG Project One Brings F1 Tech Into the Real World

      And now for a hypercar with the heart of an F1 race car


    For past few years, Mercedes' AMG division has been hard at work on building a hypercar that uses tech from Formula One. Last year, the company officially teased this project. Tonight at an event in Frankfurt, Mercedes-AMG revealed the Project One show car.

    Let's get the big thing out of the way, the Project One has the same powertrain as the Formula One car: A 1.6-liter turbocharged V-6 with a split turbo and electric motor that's good for 670 horsepower and can rev to 11,00 rpm. Another electric motor is integrated with the turbocharger to help spin up the turbine and recapture wasted exhaust energy. Two more electric motors are used to drive the front wheels. Total output stands at 1,000 horsepower. The batteries are derived from the F1 car and are mounted towards the front to help with weight distribution. 

    Figures to be aware of with Project One:

    • 0 to 200 kph (124 mph): 6 seconds
    • Top Speed: 217 mph
    • Can travel up to 16 miles on EV power alone

    The chassis features inboard, pushrod suspension coilovers and a set of carbon-ceramic brakes. Center-lock, forged aluminum wheels have partial carbon-fiber shrouds to improve airflow for the vehicle.

    Moving to the outside, it's clear Mercedes-AMG was focused on making the Project One very aero-friendly. There are numerous ducts, spoilers, and other aerodynamic aids to make the vehicle slice through the wind. An F1-style air intake sits on the roof to provide large quantities of air for the engine. The interior is very bare bones with the seats integrated into the carbon-fiber monocoque, F1-style wheel, and two 10-inch displays that act as instrument cluster and infotainment system.

    Mercedes-AMG will begin production of the Project One in the second-half of 2019. Only 275 models will be built, each costing $2.75 million. Before you ask, all of the Project Ones have been snapped up.

    Source: Mercedes-Benz
    Press Release is on Page 2


    World première of the Mercedes-AMG Project ONE show car: Mercedes-AMG brings Formula 1 technology to the road

    Frankfurt/Affalterbach. The Mercedes-AMG Project ONE will celebrate its world première at the International Motor Show (IAA) in Frankfurt/Main: for the first time, the two-seater supersports show car brings the very latest and efficient, fully-fledged Formula 1 hybrid technology from the race track to the road almost par for par to represent the highlight of AMG's 50th anniversary. This high-performance hybrid is said to produce over 1.000 hp and reach top speeds beyond 350 km/h. The show car combines outstanding race track performance and day-to-day suitable Formula 1 hybrid technology with exemplary efficiency. This is a world first. The overall responsibility for the realisation of Project ONE lies with Mercedes-AMG. The complex development work was carried out in close cooperation with the Formula 1 experts at Mercedes-AMG High Performance Powertrains in Brixworth and with the Mercedes-AMG Petronas Motorsport team in Brackley. Together with the four-door AMG GT Concept, the Mercedes-AMG Project ONE provides another insight into the future performance-hybrid drive strategy of the sports car brand within Mercedes-Benz.

    Ever since the early days of motorsport, engineers have dreamed of bringing motor racing technology to the road. Mercedes-AMG is now making this dream a reality at the very highest level. "Motorsport is not an end in itself for us. Faced with intense competition, we develop technologies from which our production vehicles also subsequently benefit. We are drawing on our experiences and successes from three constructors' and drivers' world championships to bring Formula 1 technology to the road for the first time: in Mercedes-AMG Project ONE", says Dr Dieter Zetsche, Chairman of the Board of Management of Daimler AG and Head of Mercedes-Benz Cars.

    "The Mercedes-AMG Project ONE is the first Formula 1 car with MOT approval. Our highly efficient hybrid assembly stems from motor racing and the electrically powered front axle generates a fascinating mixture of performance and efficiency. With a system output of over 1,000 hp and a top speed beyond 350 km/h this hypercar handles exactly as it looks: it takes your breath away", Ola Källenius says, Member of the Daimler AG Board of Management responsible for Group Research and Mercedes-Benz Cars Development.

    The concept car gives specific indications of what to expect from the upcoming production model. "The hypercar is the most ambitious project we have every undertaken. It marks yet another pinnacle of the successful, strategic development of Mercedes-AMG towards a performance and sports car brand. Project ONE raises the bar in terms of what is currently technologically feasible and thanks to its combination of efficiency and performance it represents an absolute benchmark. At the same time, Project ONE provides an outlook on how AMG will define driving performance in the future", Tobias Moers explains as the Head of Management at Mercedes-AMG GmbH.

    Powertrain: one turbocharged engine and four electric motors

    The high-performance plug-in hybrid drive system of the Mercedes-AMG Project ONE comes directly from Formula 1, and was realised in close cooperation with the motorsport experts of Mercedes-AMG High Performance Powertrains in Brixworth. It consists of a highly integrated and intelligently networked unit comprising one hybrid, turbocharged combustion engine with a total of four electric motors. One has been integrated into the turbocharger, another has been installed directly on the combustion engine with a link to the crankcase and the two remaining motors drive the front wheels.

    The 1.6-litre V6 hybrid petrol engine with direct injection and electrically assisted single turbocharging comes directly from the Mercedes-AMG Petronas Formula 1 racing car. The four overhead camshafts are driven by spur gears. To achieve high engine speeds, the mechanical valve springs have been replaced by pneumatic valve springs. The vehicle is mid-engined (ahead of the rear axle) and it can easily reach speeds of 11,000 rpm, which is currently unique for a roadgoing vehicle. However, for higher longevity and the use of commercially available Super Plus petrol instead of racing fuel, it remains significantly below the F1 engine speed limit.

    The electric motors on the front axle are also true rev wonders, with rotor revolutions up to 50,000 rpm – current state of the art is a speed of 20,000 rpm.

    The very high-revving engine is additionally boosted by a high-tech turbocharger. The exhaust gas and compressor turbines are separated from one another and located at an optimum position to the exhaust side and to the intake side of the V6 engine, and connected to one another by a shaft. This shaft features an electric motor with approximately 90 kW which, depending on the operating status, electrically drives the compressor turbine with up to 100,000 rpm – for instance when moving off or following load changes. The Formula 1 designation for this unit is MGU-H (Motor Generator Unit Heat).

    Lightning-quick response, faster than a naturally aspirated V8 engine

    The major advantage: the dreaded turbo lag – the delayed response to accelerator pedal commands owing to the inertia of the large charger – is completely eliminated. The response time is greatly reduced, and is even shorter than that of a naturally aspirated V8 engine. The electric turbocharger brings about another advantage: it uses parts of the surplus energy from the exhaust system to generate electricity, and either stores it in the high-voltage lithium-ion battery as part of recuperation or provides additional drive power by feeding it to an additional electric motor. This motor produces 120 kW, has been installed directly on the engine and features a link to the crankshaft via a spur gear (MGU-K = Motor Generator Unit Kinetic) – another technology that ensures maximum efficiency and performance in Formula 1.

    New all-wheel drive with purely electrically driven front axle

    There will also be two further 120 kW electric motors at the front axle. Each is connected to a front wheel via a reduction gear. The fully electrically driven front axle allows individual acceleration and braking of each front wheel, and therefore selective torque distribution (torque vectoring) for particularly high levels of vehicle dynamics. With the axle motors, we estimate that up to 80 percent of the braking energy can also be optimally used for recuperation under everyday driving conditions. This energy is stored in the battery and is available for a longer electric range. Each electric motor is controlled by its own power electronics located in close proximity to the electric motors in the floor assembly. 

    Top marks for thermal efficiency

    The thermal efficiency of the combustion engine with electric turbocharger (MGU-H) in conjunction with the electric motor on the crankshaft (MGU-K) will be over 40 percent. This is a previously unattained peak value for series production vehicles, and confirms the dominant position of the drive system where efficiency is concerned. This means that the show car obtains significantly more drive energy from one litre of fuel than other cars. It is therefore both economical and powerful. By way of comparison, the thermodynamic efficiency of conventional series production engines is around 33 to 38 percent.

    Technical data at a glance

     

    Mercedes-AMG Project ONE show car

    Rear-wheel drive

    1.6-litre V6 with direct injection, four valves per cylinder, four overhead camshafts and electrically boosted single turbocharger, electric motor connected to the crankshaft

    Displacement

    1,600 cc

    Rear-wheel drive output

    > 500 kW

    Front-wheel drive output

    2 x 120 kW

    System output

    > 740 kW (> 1,000 hp)

    Electric range

    25 km

    Drive system

    Variable AMG Performance 4MATIC+ all-wheel drive with hybrid-drive rear axle, electrically driven front axle and torque vectoring

    Transmission

    Automated AMG SPEEDSHIFT 8-speed manual transmission

    Acceleration 0-200 km/h

    < 6 secs.

    Top speed

    > 350 km/h

    Lithium-ion battery with Formula 1 technology

    The battery cells, their arrangement and the cell cooling system are the same as used in the Mercedes-AMG Petronas Formula 1 racing car. However, the quantity of battery cells in the AMG Project ONE will make it significantly more practical for everyday use. The lithium-ion, high-voltage battery and the DC/DC converter supporting and charging the 12 V onboard electrical system are space-savingly accommodated in the vehicle floor behind the front axle.

    As a further innovation, the high-voltage EQ Power+ drive system operates with 800 volts instead of the usual 400 volts. Thanks to the higher voltage levels it is possible to influence elements, such as significantly reducing the cable diameters and accordingly saving design space and weight.

    Intelligent operating strategies for optimum output and efficiency

    Overall the high-performance EQ Power+ plug-in hybrid drive system offers numerous intelligent operating strategies which are optimally tuned to different application scenarios. The driving modes range from purely electric operation through to a highly dynamic mode which corresponds to a setting used in Formula 1 qualifying for optimum lap times. Despite the high system complexity, and depending on the current requirement, the driver will always receive the optimum combination of performance and efficiency. In this process, Mercedes-AMG engineers make use of the many years of experience and know-how from Formula 1, the SLS AMG Electric Drive and Daimler AG's research and development.

    For instance, the driver can move off purely electrically, initially with just the electric motors on the front axle driving the hypercar and the electric motor on the crankshaft supporting short-term acceleration wishes. If the driver presses the accelerator more firmly and demands more output, the V6 engine also switches on. The drive system unfolds its full power as the engine speed increases. Impressive acceleration figures are possible with the Race Start function: acceleration from zero to 200 km/h takes under six seconds.

    If the driver's foot leaves the accelerator again to let the car coast, the system switches to electric drive at the front axle – whilst braking under normal driving conditions recuperates up to 80 percent of the energy, which is fed into the battery.

    Completely new, automated 8-speed manual transmission

    Power is transferred to the rear wheels by an 8-speed manual transmission that has been entirely developed from scratch for the Mercedes-AMG Project ONE. It is activated hydraulically and can be operated in automated mode or manually using the shift paddles.

    The basis for the outstanding driving characteristics of the Mercedes-AMG Project ONE is provided by the lightweight, high-strength carbon-fibre monocoque body, the technology of which likewise comes from Formula 1. The same applies to integration of the engine and transmission: both have load-bearing functions and completely support the rear suspension.

    Multi-link suspension with innovative pushrod suspension

    The suspension developers also gave their utmost. Multi-link designs are used at the front and rear. The adjustable coil-over suspension has several special features: Both push-rod spring struts have been installed across the direction of travel. The innovative arrangement of the spring/damper unit replaces the function and application of conventional tubular cross members. This solution reliably prevents rolling movements even during very rapid directional changes, without being uncomfortable.

    The overall setup of the springs and dampers is configured for perfectly balanced, easily controlled and above all sporty handling characteristics. These are also assisted by all-wheel drive and torque vectoring. ABS is standard equipment, with ESP® adjustable in three stages as is usual for AMG. ESP® ON stands for a high level of safety, ESP® SPORT HANDLING MODE allows greater yaw angles before system intervention for a sporty driving style, and ESP® OFF switches the system off for sporty driving on enclosed racetracks.

    Exclusive forged wheels with innovative carbon-fibre semi-cover

    Another completely new development is the 10-spoke forged aluminium wheel with centre lock, which is exclusively reserved for the Mercedes-AMG Project ONE. This has a radial carbon-fibre semi-cover with an aerodynamically sophisticated shape: this improves the car's aerodynamics and Cd figure by optimising the airflow around the wheels.

    At the same time, three flat ventilation slots per spoke section ensure optimum heat dissipation from the brakes. This is another example of how the AMG development team pays the utmost attention to even the smallest aspects, so as to improve the efficiency of the hypercar.

    At the front the Mercedes-AMG Project ONE runs on 10.0 J x 19 dimension wheels and 285/35 ZR 19 Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tyres which were exclusively developed for the hypercar and at the rear the vehicle features 12.0 J x 20 wheels running on Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 335/30 ZR 20 tyres.

    The car is equipped with an advanced, weight-optimised ceramic high-performance compound braking system. Its low weight reduces the unsprung masses, thus improving driving dynamics and agility. Furthermore, the ceramic brakes are distinguished by a longer service life, higher corrosion resistance and higher thermal stability. The "AMG Carbon Ceramic" lettering and the specially painted brake callipers visually distinguish this unique braking system.

    Exterior design: Beauty and the beast

    The design of the show car is very obviously inspired by the premium class in motorsport. But above all, it embodies the Mercedes-AMG principle that fascination is always linked with function. Every part has a specific purpose. The result is a mid-engine concept, extremely muscular proportions with the cockpit well forward, large wheel arches, a wasp waist and an extended rear end.

    "The Mercedes-AMG Project ONE is the hottest and coolest car we have ever designed. It combines our design philosophy of Sensual Purity with the performance of our Formula 1 racing cars and is the perfect embodiment of Performance Luxury," says Gorden Wagener, Chief Design Officer Daimler AG. "This hypercar's extreme design marks a milestone in design ‑ there are no lines, and the interior is stripped down to the essentials."

    Front view: Powerful and functional

    The front view is characterised by the large front apron, the various air inlets of which extend across the entire vehicle width. The trapezoidal centre section bears a large, white AMG logo. Above it, on the vehicle body, is the Mercedes star. The hallmark AMG A-wing below the centre section creates a silver-coloured highlight, and seamlessly transitions into the front wings.

    On the left and right are large, prominent air inlets which are framed by U‑shaped flaps and each subdivided by two black horizontal fins. Flat LED headlamps blend seamlessly into the body contours.

    The black air outlets in the bonnet guide the hot airflow around the sides of the driver compartment. This allows the flow of fresh air to pass unhindered across the driver compartment and into the intake tract on the roof. The downforce at the front axle is positively influenced by the automatically extending front splitter and the active ventilation louvres in the front wheel arches, contributing to the perfect aerobalance of the car.

    Taut flanks, large wings

    The low, dynamic greenhouse has an unmistakable, spherical architecture with a distinctive window pattern. The large, dark area stands for important technical functions. These technical components form a visual contrast to the clean overall lines of the vehicle.

    The roof line is dominated by an air intake derived from Formula 1, via which the engine takes in large volumes of air. The black intake transitions elegantly into the black, vertical shark fin, which improves lateral stability when cornering at high speed. The rear window placed well to the rear is an integral part of the intake/roof-fin unit. It allows a view of the power unit. Two large NACA air inlets ensure optimum guidance of the airflows for the engine and transmission oil coolers located at the rear end.

    The side view also shows a sensuous, clean surface design combined with functional features. The vehicle flanks are tautly recessed, with black carbon-fibre surfaces redirecting the airflow around the vehicle body as in motorsport.

    The Petronas green paintbrush design on the flanks is the work of the artist who designed the paintwork for the Formula 1 racing car. All four wheels are spanned by tight-fitting, muscular wings that appear ready to leap into action.

    As in motor racing, the doors open both forwards and upwards. The fuel filler flap is at the rear right, the charge socket for the plug-in hybrid battery at the rear left.

    Rear end: Fascination and function

    The sharp, vertical spoiler lip and the large, two-section diffuser, which is interrupted by the central exhaust tailpipe, as well as the two-stage extendible rear aerofoil, contribute to aerodynamic efficiency and performance at high speeds. The design of the exhaust tailpipe with its large, round outlet and two further small, round apertures was adopted directly from the Formula 1 cars.

    The muscular appearance is further enhanced by the rear apron with its large, black mesh and carbon-fibre components. The rear lights each feature three rhomboid lighting elements to echo the graphic design of the AMG brand logo, and therefore also the design of the headlamps.

    Interior: Formula 1 for two

    The interior design concept of this ultimate driving machine follows function on the racetrack, and this is expressed in the radical design idiom. Formula 1 technology is made authentically tangible on both the race track and the road. Here too every detail has a function, with nothing included merely for visual reasons. In the monocoque interior, the reduced components are emphasised in minimalist style both in design and functional terms.

    The ergonomically contoured interior has room for two occupants. The bucket seats with adjustable backrests are integrated into the monocoque. The pedals and steering wheel are adjustable, allowing the driver to adopt the ideal driving position. The centre tunnel visually separates the driver and passenger areas from each other. It blends fully into the seat sculpture and follows the principle of minimalism with its gently rising contour.

    Interior with functional structural parts

    The lightweight construction is also obvious from the slim, wing-like profile of the dashboard. It appears to be light and free-floating. As a functional, structural component it also rigidifies the monocoque of the Mercedes-AMG Project ONE. The two high-resolution, free-standing 10-inch displays (one slightly raised in front of the driver, the other on the right of the centre console angled towards the driver) are adapted with high-quality and weight-optimised solid metal components.

    The double-nozzle ventilation unit is suspended under the centre screen like a gondola. The screen and nozzles form a single unit, emphasising the lightweight design principle of the whole. The displays' rectangular basic form is echoed by the ventilation nozzles, and by the centre console in which the start/stop button is located.

    Also seamlessly integrated as a unit are a high-quality stowage compartment, a reduced switch array and the engine start button. The stowage compartment is fitted with a transparent lid. 

    Formula 1-style steering wheel

    The steering wheel with flattened upper and lower sections and an integrated airbag offers motorsport functionality, as do the two integrated controllers which can be used to set adjustment functions, such as the driving modes and suspension setup, or the LED shift display in the upper steering wheel area.

    The door panels are in functional, high-grade carbon-fibre, and integrate smoothly into the sporty interior. As if to mirror the aero winglets of the exterior, the door panelling is visually interrupted to create space for technical implements and a generously concave door centre panel. An aluminium cassette combines the air vents and power window switches, which are integrated as deeply recessed rectangles.

    Stowage compartments behind the seats, screen replaces interior mirror.

    Neither have the Mercedes-AMG developers forgotten suitability for everyday use and operating convenience: small items can be stowed in two compartments on the left and right behind the seats. An air conditioning system and power windows are standard equipment, while the COMAND infotainment system ensures optimum connectivity.

    The user interface is integrated as an autonomous concept. The most important information is displayed on the road in the line of vision above the steering wheel, so that the driver is not distracted. To ensure optimum visibility to the rear, the rear-view mirror is replaced by a screen showing real-time images of the rear from a mirror cam. The aluminium screen housing is fully integrated into the roof, and also holds other controls.

    Colours and materials from the racing car

    The choice of colours and materials takes its inspiration from the Mercedes-AMG Petronas Formula 1 racing car. The sculptured racing seats are in slip-resistant black microfibre, creating an unmistakable association with motor racing. The seat surfaces are interspersed with nappa leather in magma grey and inlays in a sporty textile mesh which optimally assists the air circulation of the seats. There is also yellow contrasting topstitching. 

    The Mercedes-AMG Project ONE: the future of driving performance

    Conclusion: The Mercedes-AMG Project ONE will not only be an ultimate driving machine that directly brings current Formula 1 hybrid technology onto the road and combines top-class race track performance with full day-to-day suitability. Its purpose is also to obtain extensive findings about performance-oriented plug-in hybrid drive technology, further developments of suspension layouts and extended onboard electronics that will later benefit series production AMG cars. The Project ONE team is working hard on successfully bringing this vision onto the road.

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    4 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    Actually, the Project One is more real than the C8 in one sense--nothing has publically been announced about the C8, no concept has been shown, so it's just vaporware at this point...

    True. Only spy photos and rumors of some sort of reveal at this year' Detroit Auto Show.

    Unlike with the Ford GT surprise...

    http://blog.caranddriver.com/latest-spy-pics-of-mid-engined-2019-c8-corvette-best-view-yet-of-cabin-and-overall-proportions/

     

    And even then...like you said...it may all be just over in a blink of an eye and these photographs will just be photos of...something...and nothing...

    This much I do agree...

    But...the Project One is just a mock-up...

    A Mock-up with descriptive words about said mock-up is just as "real" as said spy pics...

    Those spy pics of a possible mid-engined GM car...probably the Corvette as JDN outright denied any Cadillac badge adorning such a thing...and the people witnessing these pics are knowing this is truly a mid-engined affair...

     

    http://autoweek.com/article/spy-photos/new-spy-shots-mid-engine-c8-corvette-show-more-ever

     

     

    Quote

     

    While it has yet to receive one spoken word of confirmation from Chevrolet, the spy photos don’t lie: A mid-engine Corvette is probably on its way.

    These spy shots give us our first glimpse of the interior, as well as small hints of the shape that will most likely be revealed at the 2018 Detroit auto show. Clearly, the doors open conventionally, and everything about the curves scream mid-engine. Even the larger rear brake rotor size hints at more weight being further back in the car -- another mid-engine tip-off.

    These photos are more detailed than before and reveal what looks to be a car further along in the production process. The front of the car looks decidedly un-Corvette like, but the rear certainly reminds us of the C7. Not looking over a mile of hood and still being in a “Corvette” sure will be weird, but we can’t wait to see what Chevy can do with a seriously dynamic chassis.

     

     
    And yes...I highlighted probably...
    THAT would be the difference though between the Project One as we KNOW the Project One WILL be coming.
     
    But...THAT is the thing...
     
    Fanboyism goes both ways....
     
    There is more to a Corvette than production stock performance numbers....and BEFORE we just claim  victory  about a Project One Mercedes automobile and then trying to out-do me and call an OBVIOUS attempt at GM FINALLY getting serious about mid-engined cars (FIERO WAS CHEAPENED)...WE MUST NOT COUNT OUT WHAT THE REAL WORLD DOES WITH CORVETTES...
     
    ANY car could be tuned and  modified to out run ANY OTHER  car...
    AND I HATE when the argument does end up going there when Mustangs and Camaros and Supra Twin Turbos are being compared to each other...stock versus modified fanboy arguments...
     
    In THIS case though...
     
    Corvettes racing on race tracks ALL OVER the world is a different animal..and YOU know that Corvettes DO get used and abused...because THAT is what Corvettes are built for!
     
    [email protected] million dollars...NOBODY will be racing this "F1 for the street" hypercar...and you know what...I doubt the Project One...all 250 of them... are gonna be built to be used and abused on an almost daily basis...
     
    Let us not forget that a Corvette is engineered as a daily driver as well as a race car...
    Therefore...I get really pissy when fanboys just BLATANTLY dismiss what a Corvette actually does with REAL people actually daily driving them Mon-Fri  AND racing them Sat-Sun and back to work on Monday...for the most part...
     
    PS:  I DID give props to the Project One...
     
    Both CCAP and SMK DENIED CORVETTE MERITS...
     
    So who are the trolls?
    Me?
     
    Its difficult to talk sanely when people dont want to act sane!
     
     
     
     
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    44 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    Those spy pics of a possible mid-engined GM car...probably the Corvette as JDN outright denied any Cadillac badge adorning such a thing...and the people witnessing these pics are knowing this is truly a mid-engined affair...

     

    JDN is a bad manager.  Infiniti sales and Audi sales have gone up since he left those organizations and Cadillac has fallen to 7th place in American market sales.  

    GM can do chassis and suspensions, they are pretty good at that, Cadillacs, Corvettes and Camaros all often get high marks in that regard.  But look at every comparison test a Cadillac has been in over the past 15 years, and every time, interior, build quality, NVH, refinement, etc always doom them.  JDN inherited a known problem, has done nothing to fix it, nothing to elevate the Cadillac brand, nothing to fix the marketing.

    And people crash their Ferraris because they are upset and frustrated with 4 years of losing to Mercedes.

    world-champions-F1-6.jpg

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    Courtesy of wikipedia

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scuderia_Ferrari

    Quote

     

    The Ferrari team has achieved unparalleled success in Formula One and holds many significant records including:

    • Most Constructors' Championships: 16
    • Most Drivers' Championships: 15
    • Most Grands Prix participated (all-time): 945
    • Most Grands Prix started (all-time): 942[6]
    • Most wins (all-time): 228[7]
    • Most podiums (all-time): 721
    • Most one-two finishes (all-time): 83
    • Most pole positions (all-time): 211
    • Most WCC points (all-time): 7,033.5
    • Most WDC points (all-time): 7,935.27
    • Most fastest laps (all-time): 241
    • Most consecutive seasons with at least one victory during a season: 20 (1994–2013)

    Ferrari is also the most successful F1 engine manufacturer, with 228 wins. Of the 19 tracks used in 2014, 8 have lap records set by the Ferrari F2004, with a further 3 set by the Ferrari F2003-GA, Ferrari F2008 and Ferrari F10.

     


     

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_in_Formula_One

     

    Quote

     

    The manufacturer has collected more than 100 wins as engine supplier, and is ranked fourth in Formula One history. Five Constructors' and seven Drivers' Championships have been won with Mercedes-Benz engines.

    Mercedes has become one of the most successful teams in recent Formula One history, having achieved consecutive Drivers' and Constructors' Championships from 2014 to 2016. In 2014, Mercedes managed 11 one-two finishes beating McLaren's 1988 record of 10. The record was beaten the following year having achieved 12 one-two finishes. Mercedes also collected 16 victories in 2014 and 2015 apiece breaking McLaren (1988) and Ferrari's (2002, 2004) record of 15. In 2016, they broke their own record, achieving 19 wins.


     

     

    Like I said...

    Ferrari is like the Montreal Canadiens...

    Or...like the New York Yankees and Mercedes Benz is like the Boston Red Sox in MLB

    The Red Sox are on a roll in the 2000s just like Mercedes Benz...

    Problem is...

    07265cdf8ebfee47cf6ec2d89ca1dae7--stanle44ce1cd33f58f9eb85750c456c80a8fc--bathro

     

    oc099.jpg

     

    00.jpg

     

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    Ferrari's history in F1 is one of periods of dominance followed by fallow periods...boom or bust.     Not necessarily applicable to the car market though. 

    Mercedes current run in F1 is an interesting circumstance, considering they were out of the sport for 55 years before buying Brawn (a 1 year team with a long backstory of previous teams).     

    I'd like to see Ferrari back to winning to F1 championships, as well as McLaren (my favorite team from the 80s-90s)---F1 is much more entertaining when one team doesn't dominate but multiple are competitive, IMO...

    Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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    9 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    And people crash their Ferraris because they are upset and frustrated with 4 years of losing to Mercedes.

    world-champions-F1-6.jpg

    I say this is more a matter of who bought the race series and as such there will never be anyone else who will win the Mercedes F1 series but MB. So why would you want to spend millions in a race owned by one company that will always win no matter what others do.

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    1 hour ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    Ferrari's history in F1 is one of periods of dominance followed by fallow periods...boom or bust.     Not necessarily applicable to the car market though. 

    Mercedes current run in F1 is an interesting circumstance, considering they were out of the sport for 55 years before buying Brawn (a 1 year team with a long backstory of previous teams).     

    I'd like to see Ferrari back to winning to F1 championships, as well as McLaren (my favorite team from the 80s-90s)---F1 is much more entertaining when one team doesn't dominate but multiple are competitive, IMO...

    The old adage win on Sunday, sell on Monday no longer applies...win or lose...boom or bust....moot point.

    The fact that Ferrari has THAT many records and championships and the fact that the other teams are ALWAYS gunning for Ferrari is what counts...

    Ferrari was, is and will forever remain the team to beat as some of those records seem like they will NEVER be reached by other teams and manufacturers.

    The pressure is on Ferrari to continue to win, but there is also pressure for other teams to PREVENT Ferrari from winning.

    The Yankees are hated for that exact reason. Whether they buy players (Bambino, Pedro Martinez), or they groom them from their own organization (Joe Dimmagio, Derek Jeter), no doubt about it...the Yankees ARE the Major League. The Red Sox unfortunately will forever remain behind The Pin Striped  Yankees.

    It dont end there for Ferrari...Ferrari is also targeted at the 24 hour of LeMans over at IMSA...

    1999-2004 was the last time Ferrari dominated...like the Yankees...it is in THIS era that wins ALSO do come...

    Mercedes winning 3 in a row NOW is another moot point...

    LIke...WTF is your argument? 

    Just because Mercedes won 3 years in a row....A short decade ago...Ferrari won 5 in a row...

    This reminds me of the Red Sox winning 3 Championships since the beginning of this Millennial era and finaly breaking free of the Bambino Curse and in there winning in style AGAINST the Yankess...the Yankees also winning 3-4 World Series since the late 1990s after a decade or two of mediocrity...yet the Yankees are sooooo far ahead...

    And while yes...F1 is more fun when others win too...much like in MLB...you dont have to tell me...Montreal lost their Expos MUCH THE VERY SAME WAY AS MLB USED TO RUN THEIR LEAGUE AS F1 IS RUNNING THEIRS NOW...

    I HATE THE YANKEES AS THE YANKEES (mostly daddy Steinbrenner) HAVE COME TO SYMBOLIZE THE REASON WHY THE EXPOS WENT TO WASHINGTON AND THE REASON WHY FOR THE ATHLETICS TO RESORT TO ANALYTICS TO WIN GAMES....

    Back to Mercedes...

    What are we...in 5th grade to discuss total Championships?

    Trust me...I know of these types of discussions...I live in a city with MULTIPLE DYNASTIES in hockey...

    and yes the HABS are HATED for THAT reason...

    Still does not change the fact that the HABS ARE HOCKEY! 

    Trust me...even though the HABS have NOT won since 1993...the team is NOT frustrated...the fans are...not the organization...

    Same with Ferrari...yet they won 5 in a row a decade ago...Ferrari is quite arrogantly smug of where they are in history regarding racing...

    Ford gave them a black eye AND a bloody nose in the 60s with the Ford GT thing...

    Again last year...I dont think they cared all that much for last year....but in that span in between...Ferrari did continue winning shyte....

    So...like I said...

    Ferrari Folk ACTUALLY take pride in what Enzo started and RACE their cars...just like Porsche and Vette guys...

    Does Mercedes have that even though Mercedes ALSO has a rich racing heritage?

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    From WIKI

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One

    Quote


    McLaren also announced that it was to reacquire the shares in its team from Mercedes Benz (McLaren's partnership with Mercedes was reported to have started to sour with the McLaren Mercedes SLR road car project and tough F1 championships which included McLaren being found guilty of spying on Ferrari). Hence, during the 2010 season, Mercedes Benz re-entered the sport as a manufacturer after its purchase of Brawn GP, and split with McLaren after 15 seasons with the team. This left Mercedes, McLaren, and Ferrari as the only car manufacturers in the sport, although both McLaren and Ferrari began as racing teams rather than manufacturers.

    To compensate for the loss of manufacturer teams, four new teams were accepted entry into the 2010 season ahead of a much anticipated 'cost-cap' (see below). Entrants included a reborn Team Lotus – which was led by a Malaysian consortium including Tony Fernandes, the boss of Air Asia; Hispania Racing – the first Spanish Formula One team; as well as Virgin RacingRichard Branson's entry into the series following a successful partnership with Brawn the year before. They were also joined by the US F1 Team, which planned to run out of the United States as the only non-European based team in the sport. Financial issues befell the squad before they even made the grid. Despite the entry of these new teams, the proposed cost-cap was repealed and these teams – who did not have the budgets of the midfield and top-order teams – ran around at the back of the field until they inevitably collapsed; HRT in 2012, Caterham (formerly Lotus) in 2014 and Manor (formerly Virgin then Marussia), having survived falling into administration in 2014, went under at the end of 2016.

    A rule shake-up in 2014 meant Mercedes emerged as the dominant force, with Lewis Hamilton winning the championship closely followed by his main rival and teammate, Nico Rosberg, with the team winning 16 out of the 19 races that season (all other victories coming from Daniel Ricciardo of Red Bull). 2014 also saw a financial crisis which resulted in the backmarker Marussia and Caterham teams being put into administration, alongside the uncertain futures of Force India and Sauber. Marussia returned under the Manor name in 2015, a season in which Ferrari were the only challengers to Mercedes, with Vettel taking victory in the three Grands Prix Mercedes did not win.[34]

     

     

    Kinda  makes those recent Mercedes Benz Championships hollow, huh?

     

    I get why we should feel all nice and warm about the Project One and all...and as an AUTOMOBILE enthusiast I FEEL THE LOVE for the Project One...but...

     

    As a Dallas Cowboys fan...Troy Aikman is my guy...

    Also...my choice for GOAT at the 1/4 back position is this guy...

    maxresdefault.jpg

     

    well...until this guy came along

    0610-tom-brady-5-rings-at-patriots-1200x

     

    Just because I root for 1 team...it does not mean I HAVE to denounce all other teams just because of sheer fanboyism...

     

    I analyzed and dissected this discussion front to back, back to front...

     

    When I say that a possible mid-engined Corvette WILL give the Project One a run for its money...

    It aint ME being the fanboy of saying that...as I showed that a Vette dominates...and people that ENGINEER them and MOSTLY the people that own them have that passion to make them dominate...

    But tis the people who ONLY will give props to the Project One and negate ANYTHING other than the Project One...

     

    Several of you have gone outta your way to denounce the Vette and Ferrari trying to prove to ME that I am the one outta line...yet ironically...YOUR arguments to me are ALL OF FANBOYISM...

    Mine are of reality!

    YOURS is purely out of spite...

    A mid-engined C8 is vaporware?

    Sure...it may be...but that is more of you folk wanting it to be vaporware rather than what is really going on...

    Not wanting to admit that a mid-engined Vette WILL punch above its weight class and give hypercars a run for their money while ONLY praising the Project One?

    Yeah....wear those blinders but tell me Im  crazy...while resorting to the vaporware  comment again...

    Photos and  mock-ups versus actual spy pics of a possible vehicle actually PHYSICALLY being tested...

    Both have a realism to it, but both have vaporware written all over them...

    How is it though that we could speculate what one car will do without any real facts...and CEO words dont  count, and we cant speculate what the other will do KNOWING what Vette engineers and Corvette Racing endeavors has achieved while thousands of loyal Vette hot rodders and racer and after market producers has actually accomplished with the Vette over the last 60 phoquing years???!!!

     

     

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    I'm not a big baseball fan, but I'm enjoying the Indians current run.   Oddly, I never paid much attention to the local teams when I lived in Arizona, but after moving back to my original region I'm cheering for the Cleveland teams...Indians, Cavs, Browns...wish we had a hockey team.  About the only time I did follow hockey was when I lived in Colorado--followed the Avalanche for years.   And still a Broncos fan after 20 years.  Not sure how it applies to Mercedes vs Ferrari, but I've wandered off topic again.

    Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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    You mean to tell me that you cant find a relation?

    Common dude...

    At the end of the day...both are of the sports category...

    Car racing is a sport, non?  (some might argue that, but in no way that car racing is NOT SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT!!!)

    And this discussion is about Ferrari and Mercedes and Vette doing battle in the racing part of the car equation, non?

    But yeah...Im in left field somewhere...PUN INTENDED!

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    4 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    You mean to tell me that you cant find a relation?

    Common dude...

    At the end of the day...both are of the sports category...

    Car racing is a sport, non?  (some might argue that, but in no way that car racing is NOT SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT!!!)

    And this discussion is about Ferrari and Mercedes and Vette doing battle in the racing part of the car equation, non?

    But yeah...Im in left field somewhere...PUN INTENDED!

    Yeah, all are sports.. I do love racing, haven't watched as much this year as in past years---buying the house and moving, multiple remodeling projects have really sucked up my time and energy.   Looking forward to going to some races at Mid-Ohio and other regional tracks next year. 

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    Mercedes was the best in Formula 1 in 1954-1955, you know back when they didn't make luxury or performance cars and just made taxis.  They best Ferrari then, now that they are back in the sport they aren't beating Ferrari again.

    Mercedes is joining Formula E so we'll see if they can win that.  McLaren is ditching Honda engines in F1 for Renault next year so they should actually finish a race and be competitive.

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    Yeah well...the Brooklyn Dodgers also won a World Series in 1955...and Joltin' Joe had looong retired by then...

    And when the Dodgers was the talk of the town in 1955, the Yankees quietly became legends again with  Mantle and Maris and the Dodgers quietly were no longer playing at Ebbetts field in Brooklyn...

    And then there was this

    giphy.gif

     

    When the Yankees was at the bottom...

    But quietly

    this guy came along to fortify the Yankees as the BEST TEAM IN HISTORY IN ALL OF SPORTS!

    giphy.gif

     

    There is a small connection and purpose to that that I did

    I doubt however if you could figure that out...

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    On 9/17/2017 at 11:42 PM, balthazar said:

    Bugatti Chiron: 1480 HP, 0-97KPH: 2.4, 0-200 : 6.5, top speed 261 (limited).
    Rimac Concept One, 1224 HP, 0-100KPH: 2.4, 0-200 : 6.0, top speed 221 (limited).

     

    The AMG Project One (which is getting a new name for production thankfully) will beat the Rimac, and it isn't made by a man in a shed, it is made by Mercedes so you know it will work.  Even though Richard Hammond did roll a Rimac and survive with little injury so perhaps it is safe.   The AMG will stomp these cars in handling, it weighs nearly 1,500 lbs less than the Rimac.

    A Tesla Model S P100 D does 0-125 mph in 10.5 seconds (and won Motor Trend's World's greatest drag race), Project One can do that in under 6 seconds.

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    2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    A Tesla Model S P100 D does 0-125 mph in 10.5 seconds (and won Motor Trend's World's greatest drag race), Project One can do that in under 6 seconds.

    No Proof that Project One will achieve this, just theory based on computer models and so Right now Project One is just Vaporware.

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    On 9/17/2017 at 8:42 PM, balthazar said:

    Bugatti Chiron: 1480 HP, 0-97KPH: 2.4, 0-200 : 6.5, top speed 261 (limited).
    Rimac Concept One, 1224 HP, 0-100KPH: 2.4, 0-200 : 6.0, top speed 221 (limited).

     

    Way too funny as this just proves EV over ICE in the Performance race and like everything in time, all products will get to the EV world. Very cool.

    Be interesting to see this up against other hyper cars when and if they come out.

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    Rimac is impressive as they offer 4 different motors in their car and the top is 517hp continuous with peak 877hp. With 625 Lb Ft of continous torque. Should be a blast to drive. Like what they have on their site

    http://www.rimac-automobili.com/en/

    Have to say that the Rimac is NO SHED BUILT car. They designed their own controllers and so much more based on what I see on their web site. This is a well funded car company. They have some very cool tech. I hope they survive or at least get bought by an auto company that wants to compete in the Hypercar war that I see coming.

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    Rimac is one of the few 'supercars' that has any sort of cohesive, sophisticated design, IMO. The "LaFerrari" is ridiculous; fans/company will likely say it's all functional/wind tunnel tuned but the video proves- it doesn't matter. Hope the Rimac gets more exposure- it seems largely unknown.

    However, it has set an EV hypercar performance bar that Mercedes has to contend with.

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    Hard to take 'Rimac' seriously, though when compared to real car companies....a startup car company in Croatia?  Riiiight...more prototypes with low odds of success...I'm skeptical of these new supercar companies, just a lot of hype without substance.   M-B AMG I take seriously..

    Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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    10 hours ago, dfelt said:

    No Proof that Project One will achieve this, just theory based on computer models and so Right now Project One is just Vaporware.

    Except  that Lewis Hamilton has driven it and his F1 car does 0-124 mph in 4.6 seconds with the same engine.  The 2 electric motors and all wheel drive will help make up for the 1,000 lb weigh difference.

     

    47 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    Rimac is one of the few 'supercars' that has any sort of cohesive, sophisticated design, IMO. The "LaFerrari" is ridiculous; fans/company will likely say it's all functional/wind tunnel tuned but the video proves- it doesn't matter. Hope the Rimac gets more exposure- it seems largely unknown.

    However, it has set an EV hypercar performance bar that Mercedes has to contend with.

    The Rimac is on season 2 of The Grand Tour which I think comes out in November.

    The successor to Project One will be all electric around 2025, Mercedes already said they are going to take Formula E technology to put to a road car but they are a year away from racing Formula E.

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    4 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    Hard to take 'Rimac' seriously, though when compared to real car companies....a startup car company in Croatia?  Riiiight...more prototypes with low odds of success...I'm skeptical of these new supercar companies, just a lot of hype without substance.   M-B AMG I take seriously..

    People have said that (and some still do) about Tesla. Rimac was founded in 2009- 8 years ago now.

    Rimac : "Almost all of the materials are produced in-house; no critical components are off-the-shelf."
    That's a world apart from most start-ups AND established OEMs.

    Edited by balthazar
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    10 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    People have said that (and some still do) about Tesla. Rimac was founded in 2009- 8 years ago now.

    Tesla is well funded American company and actually selling cars, what are Rimac's sales numbers?  Shady Eastern European nonsense, IMO....these silly hypercar companies from backwaters come and go all the time...Lycan, Mastretta, etc...lots of hype, no substance.... about the only one that seems to actually be a real company with solid engineering is Koenigsegg.   

    Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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    Just now, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    Tesla is well funded and actually selling cars, what are Rimac's sales numbers?  Shady Eastern European nonsense, IMO....

    Pffft- 'well-funded? 13 years of no profits is poorly funded- that's negative income. Yes, selling cars now, but in the beginning; no. Financially Tesla is a house of cards- that may change, hopefully that will change very soon... but even the selling of the Model 3 in a 'mostly loaded' state of $24-49K does not bode well for making a profit at the 'bait' price of $35K. They need to curtail capital spending, their debt must be astronomical.

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    11 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    Pffft- 'well-funded? 13 years of no profits is poorly funded- that's negative income. Yes, selling cars now, but in the beginning; no. Financially Tesla is a house of cards- that may change, hopefully that will change very soon... but even the selling of the Model 3 in a 'mostly loaded' state of $24-49K does not bode well for making a profit at the 'bait' price of $35K. They need to curtail capital spending, their debt must be astronomical.

    That's typical for American tech startups, though..takes a while for them to get profitable.   

    I have to laugh at people that try and discredit an American startup car company, yet praise unknown nonsense from a company like Rimac--some nothing company from nowhere...

    Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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    2 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    Tesla is well funded American company and actually selling cars, what are Rimac's sales numbers?  Shady Eastern European nonsense, IMO....these silly hypercar companies from backwaters come and go all the time...Lycan, Mastretta, etc...lots of hype, no substance.... about the only one that seems to actually be a real company with solid engineering is Koenigsegg.   

    One has to wonder if this is where BitCoin pirate profits go to these backwater startups. Maybe also funded by the dark web.

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    10 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    One has to wonder if this is where BitCoin pirate profits go to these backwater startups. Maybe also funded by the dark web.

    Could be...wouldn't trust any company from Eastern Europe...lots of shady stuff coming out of there. 

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    5 hours ago, dfelt said:

    WOW
    http://www.automobilemag.com/news/mercedes-amg-project-one-hypercar-revealed/

    So this Hypercar requires a complete rebuild of the 1.6L V6 engine every 30,000 miles.

    PASS,

    The Rimac is way better and as proven, I really doubt the MB Hypercar can beat it in performance.

    The Rimac weighs 4200 lbs and has regular car suspension;  the AMG weighs 2700 and has F1 car suspension.   Which do you think will be better in the corners?

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    8 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    The Rimac weighs 4200 lbs and has regular car suspension;  the AMG weighs 2700 and has F1 car suspension.   Which do you think will be better in the corners?

    Considering so many sports cars have been around the 4200 mark till just the last couple of years, I would say the Rimac would probably perform not much difference than cars in the 2 door segment from the Italians, Germans, Americans and Asians.

    Being that it does not have to lug an ICE engine that has to be rebuilt every 30,000 miles, Lower cost to operate and already one of the fastest monsters out there.

    We will weight till the actual production of a Project One comes out and then see how it stands up.

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    30 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    Considering so many sports cars have been around the 4200 mark till just the last couple of years, I would say the Rimac would probably perform not much difference than cars in the 2 door segment from the Italians, Germans, Americans and Asians.

    Being that it does not have to lug an ICE engine that has to be rebuilt every 30,000 miles, Lower cost to operate and already one of the fastest monsters out there.

    We will weight till the actual production of a Project One comes out and then see how it stands up.

    Since it's not from a reputable existing car company, I wouldn't expect the Rimac to perform at all...a Rimac is what Richard Hammond crashed in Switzerland recently, went off the road and burst into flame...like a kit car, but more expensive..can't imagine anyone paying $2 mill for such garbage. 

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    12 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    Since it's not from a reputable existing car company, I wouldn't expect the Rimac to perform at all...a Rimac is what Richard Hammond crashed in Switzerland recently, went off the road and burst into flame...like a kit car, but more expensive..can't imagine anyone paying $2 mill for such garbage. 

    They do say a Fool and His Money is soon parted! :P 

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    A company's reputation is built not on press releases and twitter feeds, but product.
    Despite some folk not believing the car or the country it comes from is "real", both do exist.

    wouldn't trust any company from Eastern Europe...lots of shady stuff coming out of there.

    Germany & Croatia share the same longitude.

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    Germany has a long history in the auto industry...Croatia--none....  I'm skeptical of some tiny company with no track record from a place with no reputation for autos....

    Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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    3 hours ago, balthazar said:

    A company's reputation is built not on press releases and twitter feeds, but product.
    Despite some folk not believing the car or the country it comes from is "real", both do exist.

     

    They supposedly built 8 cars in 2014...so yes, the product exists, but in insignificant numbers...again, nothing compared to the output of a real car company.

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    Yeah....well...I personally  wouldnt trust any car coming from Germany either...some pretty shady stuff coming outta Germany too ya know...

    Trabbi_601-S_3828.jpg

    audi-r8-feu-bangkok.jpg1Audi_R8insmoke_Mumbai_PTI.jpg

     

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/04/global-recall-1-million-mercedes-cars-fire-risk-could-include/

    http://www.autonews.com/article/20170303/OEM11/170309916/mercedes-to-recall-1-million-newer-vehicles-globally-after-51-fires

    https://www.autoblog.com/2017/03/04/million-mercedes-benz-recall-fire-risk/

    Quote

    The fire risk has prompted Mercedes owner Daimler to recall around a million vehicles worldwide, covering certain A-Class, B-Class, C-Class, E-Class and CLA cars and GLA and GLC SUVs.

    5ef7bb73bd.jpg

    AR-312159998.jpg?MaxW=640

     

     

    2014-466116-2014-mercedes-benz-s-class-f

    mercedes-benz-cla45-amg-fire-peru.jpg

    Mercedes-Benz-C-63-AMG-fire-at-GG2H.jpg

     

     

     

     

     

     

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