Spying: Looking Inside the Chevrolet Bolt

Very interesting seeing this video and reading the comments. Glad to see that Chevy is keeping the interest alive by showing the work being done on the auto and it being out and driven.

I will have to say that I like the dash very much in this EV.

Anyone know what kind of Torque and HP figures GM is thinking of for the BOLT?

I wonder how close it will be to the VOLT specs, 

• Electric unit produces up to 149 hp and 273 lb-ft of torque

gm needs to provide volt and bolt like options for LARGER vehicles.  i.e. midsize / family and crossover

Given the current state of the art for batteries and range, I'd say scaling up to that size right now wouldn't be cost or range-effective. Frankly, I'm impressed at some of the numbers that are being tossed around for something this size.

Cool!

Given the current state of the art for batteries and range, I'd say scaling up to that size right now wouldn't be cost or range-effective. Frankly, I'm impressed at some of the numbers that are being tossed around for something this size.

I disagree, there are plenty of batteries now with high enough amps to support longer range and I see no reason why a suburban could not have a 400-500 mile range as you have all the space on both sides of the drive line and behind the rear wheels so you can have enough battery for a long distance drive plus cost is always coming down on the auto's.

I will like to see a Chevy Trax kinda vehicle with this technology next from Chevrolet/GM

Then gradually step up to a larger CUV/SUV to Equinox levels...because, as it seems, CUVs/SUVs are the next bread and butter vehicles.

The Tesla Model X...Elon, thinks that this is the next step for electrics, heck, even BMW thinks that also with the i3, so I think Chevy's/GM's gamble on a CUV/SUV might not be that far fetched.

Given the current state of the art for batteries and range, I'd say scaling up to that size right now wouldn't be cost or range-effective. Frankly, I'm impressed at some of the numbers that are being tossed around for something this size.

I disagree, there are plenty of batteries now with high enough amps to support longer range and I see no reason why a suburban could not have a 400-500 mile range as you have all the space on both sides of the drive line and behind the rear wheels so you can have enough battery for a long distance drive plus cost is always coming down on the auto's.

And that's fine. But it ain't cheap (yet).

You could scale this up into a Cadillac like the CT6 as we will soon see. Also a cheaper version in the Malibu but that is where you really have to be careful. A CT6 has more meat on the bone profit wise to work and the Malibu has only so much. To install much more there the price can get so high no one will buy it pretty fast.

We will see a decent hybrid system in the new BU that will work well but help keep the price to where someone would still buy it.

That is why a Bolt is going to be the toughest car in the world to build. Making a car like this that people would want to buy and yet still the average owner will buyer will pay for. This is why Elon has still not tackled the Tesla 3 yet.

You could scale this up into a Cadillac like the CT6 as we will soon see. Also a cheaper version in the Malibu but that is where you really have to be careful. A CT6 has more meat on the bone profit wise to work and the Malibu has only so much. To install much more there the price can get so high no one will buy it pretty fast.

We will see a decent hybrid system in the new BU that will work well but help keep the price to where someone would still buy it.

 

That is why a Bolt is going to be the toughest car in the world to build. Making a car like this that people would want to buy and yet still the average owner will buyer will pay for. This is why Elon has still not tackled the Tesla 3 yet.

GM will have a home run once they get the BOLT right and into production. My wife has already told me she wants the Bolt. I have talked with others who want it also. I think we will see this become a big hit yet.

You could scale this up into a Cadillac like the CT6 as we will soon see. Also a cheaper version in the Malibu but that is where you really have to be careful. A CT6 has more meat on the bone profit wise to work and the Malibu has only so much. To install much more there the price can get so high no one will buy it pretty fast.

We will see a decent hybrid system in the new BU that will work well but help keep the price to where someone would still buy it.

 

That is why a Bolt is going to be the toughest car in the world to build. Making a car like this that people would want to buy and yet still the average owner will buyer will pay for. This is why Elon has still not tackled the Tesla 3 yet.

GM will have a home run once they get the BOLT right and into production. My wife has already told me she wants the Bolt. I have talked with others who want it also. I think we will see this become a big hit yet.

I hope you are right. But right now a good solid double would be great for a EV. This is not a car that is going to bump the Cruze out of the top place at Chevy in sales anytime soon. This is a slow growth segment but it needs to be a well done car and one that will grow not only the model over time but the future of other models.

The volume increase this car can lead to will help bring the needed changes for changed minds in the public as well as more chargers and more investment for even better batteries.

The real hang up with the EV including the Tesla is the charging times. Even on a Supercharger you can still not match the time it takes to refuel a gas car. This is a life style charger for many owners as they will never wait 45 mins for a part charge or 12 hours for a full charge. Also the damage the fast charge does to the battery is not good either.

But there is a growing segment interested and this car will be a key building block to increase sales, interest and infrastructure.

While the Tesla proved there was a market for the expensive electric car GM will prove you can build one cheaper and still make a buck on it. While this will not be GM's highest volume or profit car it will prove to be a car that will grow the EV market much like the Prius did the Hybrid.

Give me a good solid double or triple here and we will be sitting pretty. GM needs to hit a home run in the Malibu as it will bring in the money to help expand these other programs. If GM can turn 300,000 Malibu's and 300,000 Cruze a year this is where the money will come from to advance the EV even more.

The Bolt will be a very big game changer but it is not going to win the game by itself. This is just part of the game not the winning run. This segment is too big for one car to carry the entire load.

Are my eyes that bad?  I did not catch a glimpse of the Bolt interior in that video... all I see is a kid with a laptop in there, very briefly.

Are my eyes that bad?  I did not catch a glimpse of the Bolt interior in that video... all I see is a kid with a laptop in there, very briefly.

It wasn't in the video, look at the Autoblog link that William posted.

Any idea of what the big red button is under the center dash screen? I am thinking a temporary disconnect in case of electrical fire or something, Thoughts?

UnCoveredChevyBoltInterior.jpg

 

Any idea of what the big red button is under the center dash screen? I am thinking a temporary disconnect in case of electrical fire or something, Thoughts?

Almost all test mules have an "Oh Sh!T!!" button... even the petroleum based models. 

 

 

You could scale this up into a Cadillac like the CT6 as we will soon see. Also a cheaper version in the Malibu but that is where you really have to be careful. A CT6 has more meat on the bone profit wise to work and the Malibu has only so much. To install much more there the price can get so high no one will buy it pretty fast.

We will see a decent hybrid system in the new BU that will work well but help keep the price to where someone would still buy it.

 

That is why a Bolt is going to be the toughest car in the world to build. Making a car like this that people would want to buy and yet still the average owner will buyer will pay for. This is why Elon has still not tackled the Tesla 3 yet.

GM will have a home run once they get the BOLT right and into production. My wife has already told me she wants the Bolt. I have talked with others who want it also. I think we will see this become a big hit yet.

 

I hope you are right. But right now a good solid double would be great for a EV. This is not a car that is going to bump the Cruze out of the top place at Chevy in sales anytime soon. This is a slow growth segment but it needs to be a well done car and one that will grow not only the model over time but the future of other models.

The volume increase this car can lead to will help bring the needed changes for changed minds in the public as well as more chargers and more investment for even better batteries.

The real hang up with the EV including the Tesla is the charging times. Even on a Supercharger you can still not match the time it takes to refuel a gas car. This is a life style charger for many owners as they will never wait 45 mins for a part charge or 12 hours for a full charge. Also the damage the fast charge does to the battery is not good either.

But there is a growing segment interested and this car will be a key building block to increase sales, interest and infrastructure.

While the Tesla proved there was a market for the expensive electric car GM will prove you can build one cheaper and still make a buck on it. While this will not be GM's highest volume or profit car it will prove to be a car that will grow the EV market much like the Prius did the Hybrid.

Give me a good solid double or triple here and we will be sitting pretty. GM needs to hit a home run in the Malibu as it will bring in the money to help expand these other programs. If GM can turn 300,000 Malibu's and 300,000 Cruze a year this is where the money will come from to advance the EV even more.

The Bolt will be a very big game changer but it is not going to win the game by itself. This is just part of the game not the winning run. This segment is too big for one car to carry the entire load.

 

I agree that this will not win the war nor will it be the all things to everyone, but I do believe that this will be what Prius was to Toyota for GM. I think people will look to change habits and while yes now the bulk of people will not go for 30 min, 4hrs, 8hrs or 12hr charge times, there is a growing group of people that like electronic devices, a habit of plugging in at night and letting the auto charge over night and having it all day running will work. The fact that there is also fast chargers that can charge 100 miles in 30 min, means we will see chargers that will recharge this car fully in 1hr. Then time and advances will move to getting this down even more.

The Bolt will address range anxiety for people and for many they will also gain access to those coveted EV parking spots. So this will entice a much larger crowd to go EV I believe.

The benefit of Tesla is that they have pushed and 1/3 of their customers are now purchasing said auto's with the 80 amp charging solution so they can fully recharge in 1hr. I have seen many 240V 30 amp solutions that would cover most peoples need to recharge quickly for running around.

My hope is that Chevy does the Bolt right by taking the lessons learned from Tesla and incorporate them into the BOLT.

80amp recharging option.

Standard 30 Amp 240V charging compared to current 3.3 or 6.6 amp charging today.

Use a solar roof panel to allow for added charging or for using AC, Stereo, etc and settings run by your smartphone.

I am excited by this.

Here is the issue. We are making batteries smaller and more powerful but charging times remain pretty constant. Yes you can partial or fast charge but this leaves you short of a full load and even then the fast charge degrades a batter even if it is a power tool.

People today who are on the go hate to stop for gas for 8 min let alone 45 min for a partial charge. Same with the Hydrogen cell cars as they take about 30 mins. to refuel.

Solar and other means may be a small boost but cars like this can not get much out of such small panels.

At this point anything over a the time of a simple gas fill is too long for most buyers plain and simple. Habits and life styles are hard to change. I have to make one stop driving to Charlotte and to be honest if I did not have to piss and get fuel I would drive on. That 10 Min is more than I want to waste as that is more than 10 miles I would be down the road. Also there is no place on 77 that I would want to spend 1 or more hours.

As a commuter to work or the store these cars will really start to pick up. As a companion car they will expand but for the person with one car that drives a lot they will not do much for them.

Also the market needs slow growth as if everyone pick up on these cars at once it would create issues with charging stations or the lack of. We have already seen abuses with the Tesla ones with a limited market. How many people will park at one and just leave the car there longer than needed while others wait. Also the power grid in many areas can be taxed at time just with hot weather what would they do with a large influx of cars when people refuse to charge at night like they hope. Not to mention the president has taken so many coal power plants out of the future with few being built to replace them.

The Bolt will be a good solid building block moving the segment forward and put the car in to hands that could not even participate before. If they can do what the Prius has done in the EV segment it has done it's job well. Also the PR fall out for GM should help the rest of the cars and Hybrids moving forward.

The idea some have of no gas engines in 20 years will be disappointed as if we are still here gas engines will still be here in some form. They will be smaller and more efficient but they will still be here.

The key is now the investments being made where we had none to very little before.

Also one wild card is the Mars Mission. I expect we will be moving forward on this in the near future and we will see a tech boom like we did in the 70's. This will drive for more break through in our every day life and this will help much in the area of energy and energy management. The worst thing Obama did was defund NASA. That is one area of stimulus that does more than anything.

I like the interior, looks pretty techy, as it should for an EV.

Is that a drive by wire shifter I see? 

I like the interior, looks pretty techy, as it should for an EV.

 

Is that a drive by wire shifter I see? 

Most shifters are "drive by wire" these days..... even the ones the look and feel like an old-school shifter. 

As hyper alludes to. Electric infrastructure being not much and charge times being an issue. All electrics being majority still long ways off. HOWEVER the tech crowd rightfully is enamored and gM should be the automaker to claim making electrics mainstream. Not tesla. Gm won't make a full court press on pure electrics though because they are too cheap too. Not only that, their investment may get leapfrogged be other technologies related to what happens when the infrastructure stRts to develop. Why should gn put so much in now? Pure electrics will only become viable when the same gas stations you stop at on road trips now have 5 minute chargers as well. This will require a complete dismantling of our grid and distribution somehow someday. In the meantime, the volt is a pretty damn good way to get electric and still go far. Where GM is faulty here is not making a voltec malibu, Equinox, i.e voltecs for its mainstream lineups. Plug ins. Not just hybrids.

And with 200 mile plug in range. I think in 2-3 years the 50 mile range will look like a joke. All for 30 grand or not much over. Sorry but to lead means to conquer hard tasks. An Equinox with a volt powertrain and 200 mile plug in range would be lights out.

All the mfrs will eventually have to get together to standArdize plug in only electric infrastructure and electrical architecture before it takes off but gm could choose to lead in this area. It will take a world effort however. Many countries. Many automakers.

Here is the issue. We are making batteries smaller and more powerful but charging times remain pretty constant. Yes you can partial or fast charge but this leaves you short of a full load and even then the fast charge degrades a batter even if it is a power tool.People today who are on the go hate to stop for gas for 8 min let alone 45 min for a partial charge. Same with the Hydrogen cell cars as they take about 30 mins. to refuel.Solar and other means may be a small boost but cars like this can not get much out of such small panels.At this point anything over a the time of a simple gas fill is too long for most buyers plain and simple. Habits and life styles are hard to change. I have to make one stop driving to Charlotte and to be honest if I did not have to piss and get fuel I would drive on. That 10 Min is more than I want to waste as that is more than 10 miles I would be down the road. Also there is no place on 77 that I would want to spend 1 or more hours.As a commuter to work or the store these cars will really start to pick up. As a companion car they will expand but for the person with one car that drives a lot they will not do much for them.Also the market needs slow growth as if everyone pick up on these cars at once it would create issues with charging stations or the lack of. We have already seen abuses with the Tesla ones with a limited market. How many people will park at one and just leave the car there longer than needed while others wait. Also the power grid in many areas can be taxed at time just with hot weather what would they do with a large influx of cars when people refuse to charge at night like they hope. Not to mention the president has taken so many coal power plants out of the future with few being built to replace them.The Bolt will be a good solid building block moving the segment forward and put the car in to hands that could not even participate before. If they can do what the Prius has done in the EV segment it has done it's job well. Also the PR fall out for GM should help the rest of the cars and Hybrids moving forward.The idea some have of no gas engines in 20 years will be disappointed as if we are still here gas engines will still be here in some form. They will be smaller and more efficient but they will still be here.The key is now the investments being made where we had none to very little before.Also one wild card is the Mars Mission. I expect we will be moving forward on this in the near future and we will see a tech boom like we did in the 70's. This will drive for more break through in our every day life and this will help much in the area of energy and energy management. The worst thing Obama did was defund NASA. That is one area of stimulus that does more than anything.

Yes bailing on NASA was complete stupid We still need to lead in space ventures.

https://history.gmheritagecenter.com/wiki/index.php/1966_Electrovair_II_Concept

SUCH great strides in electric car range since then!  Oh why have I not been on board before now?   

https://history.gmheritagecenter.com/wiki/index.php/1966_Electrovair_II_Concept

SUCH great strides in electric car range since then! Oh why have I not been on board before now?

There has been basically zero investment (compared to petrol car R&D) in electric cars until the Pruis and Insight came out. Now we have electric cars with 200+ mile range and 0-60 sprints of 3 seconds.

All the mfrs will eventually have to get together to standArdize plug in only electric infrastructure and electrical architecture before it takes off but gm could choose to lead in this area. It will take a world effort however. Many countries. Many automakers.

This is the problem. They should get together but as of now they are just in a pissing match to promote their system as the leader. We have seen it before with Electrical plugs globally where it is still unresolved but we have also seen it in thing like Video that had the Beta/VHS war that was resolved and now means little.

What I think needs to be done is all MFG need to hold a conference and see if they can come to SAE standards with the electric car but with so much innovation going on it is hard to do this at this time. What we have now can be completely changed in 5-10 years.

Just look at Cell Phones and how things have changed there. I see this also happening in the EV field.

https://history.gmheritagecenter.com/wiki/index.php/1966_Electrovair_II_Concept

SUCH great strides in electric car range since then!  Oh why have I not been on board before now?   

Yes like Drew pointed out investments did not come till interest started to rise. Even before the Prius the EV1 drew a lot of attention but many failed to understand this was not a production car and never was intended to be production. It at best was like the old Chrysler Turbine and was more a demonstrator for the public for GM to learn from.

Today we have many factors at play today.

Emissions and stiffer regulations

Environmental Consumers

Higher and higher CAFE

The increase of investment for Hybrids that can be carried over to the EV cars

Increased improvement in smaller and better batteries that not only can be used here but also in cell phones and lap tops or any other electronic device.

The fact is time was right to invest here as the things we have needed are now here. This has simulated investment as the one who comes up with a battery that is faster charging and longer lasting stands to make a lot of money. We can not say it can not be done as they used to say that about many things like going to the Moon or Transplanting a Heart.

Automakers hope to help off set some of their emissions and CAFE here so it is in their best interest to invest. Also companies like GM if they can lead the pack can also help set the standard of where this goes vs. being forced into using someone else's system that may compromise what they have already invested in.

The one reason the Volt has so many people against it on the web was many MFG could not afford to let it be a run away hit. Many already have billions invested and they fear a new model like the Volt could change the dynamic of the market that could render much of what they have invested useless.

They Hybrid and EV segment may not sell a lot of cars but the companies here are more competitive than ever. They want to win this game and they will continue to invest and try to get that breakthrough that will put them on top.

As hyper alludes to. Electric infrastructure being not much and charge times being an issue. All electrics being majority still long ways off. HOWEVER the tech crowd rightfully is enamored and gM should be the automaker to claim making electrics mainstream. Not tesla. Gm won't make a full court press on pure electrics though because they are too cheap too. Not only that, their investment may get leapfrogged be other technologies related to what happens when the infrastructure stRts to develop. Why should gn put so much in now? Pure electrics will only become viable when the same gas stations you stop at on road trips now have 5 minute chargers as well. This will require a complete dismantling of our grid and distribution somehow someday. In the meantime, the volt is a pretty damn good way to get electric and still go far. Where GM is faulty here is not making a voltec malibu, Equinox, i.e voltecs for its mainstream lineups. Plug ins. Not just hybrids.

And with 200 mile plug in range. I think in 2-3 years the 50 mile range will look like a joke. All for 30 grand or not much over. Sorry but to lead means to conquer hard tasks. An Equinox with a volt powertrain and 200 mile plug in range would be lights out.

Would agree, electric motors have been proven now with superior torque and HP to really move large auto's, no reason not to have the suburban be a Voltec auto. An electric powertrain with a generator would really make it rock.

Consolidation to a industry-wide standard is going to happen soon. 

It's just that the current conditions still make electric cars a niche. Other than Tesla, no manufacturer is really pushing their own charging ecosystem such as transformer boxes, plug interfaces, or on board charging equipment.

But, there's a competitive advantage to equip better chargers, and lower charging times for a vehicle. That's where we are seeing differences. But that'll go away soon enough.

The first automakers to really introduce an affordable electric car that can fully substitute gas powered cars of the same size and shape will be real winners. 

Electric motors have been abler to do this for years. In fact they would have been much easier to use in larger vehicles as it was more difficult and expensive to make them smaller and lighter in the new smaller cars.

Large elective motors have run large pit mine dumps for years You know the Terex kind of dumps that are the size of a building.

The real issue is how much battery do you need to move a vehicle the size of a Tahoe? Will you tow far? How expensive will it be? How bad will the aero kill miles? Also how much pay load would be compromised with larger batteries.

The truth is the SUV would make the most sense as or making something more efficient But you also have to consider the SUV and Truck segment are mostly the people who say they can have my V8 when they pry it from my cold hands. It really is not a segment where many are all that eco minded to pay that much more for something they feel does not need fixed in the first place.

Now with the CUV you have a better shot but Aero again is going to be an issue with taller vehicle.

All the mfrs will eventually have to get together to standArdize plug in only electric infrastructure and electrical architecture before it takes off but gm could choose to lead in this area. It will take a world effort however. Many countries. Many automakers.

This is the problem. They should get together but as of now they are just in a pissing match to promote their system as the leader. We have seen it before with Electrical plugs globally where it is still unresolved but we have also seen it in thing like Video that had the Beta/VHS war that was resolved and now means little.

Tesla did it. They've open-sourced everything needed and provided the necessary leadership for standardized infrastructure.  

Trouble is, nobody important wants to follow Tesla anywhere.

Clearly the mad rush to debut electric cars and beat Tesla is in no way related to Tesla. 

It must be hard hating what you can't have. 

Trouble is, nobody important wants to follow Tesla anywhere.

Tesla's the best shot there is at making electric vehicles viable for large scales. Not GM, not Ford, not Toyota. No one is at the cutting edge as Tesla.

And no one else is going to build a $5 billion facility to manufacture batteries, here in America. And Musk isn't even American.

Audi, Benz, Chevy, BMW, Ford all have electrics now or will very shortly.   I'm sure I'm forgetting others. 

Trouble is, nobody important wants to follow Tesla anywhere.

Saying no one wants to follow Tesla is like saying no one wants to follow Apple.

Why do you hate American companies?

Audi, Benz, Chevy, BMW, Ford all have electrics now or will very shortly.   I'm sure I'm forgetting others. 

I think anything from VW being positioned as an alternatively fueled/powered vehicle has had its reputation either tarnished or severely reduced.

So that means they're out of the picture. And Ford's Focus electric is seriously compromised. The Leaf, while inexpensive and rather a genuine product effort; it's still too unconventional in style. And BMW's i8 can hardly be considered better than a Volt for "green purposes". 

A person who gets an i3 can afford a Leaf, which is in every way a better electric car; but can't afford a Model S, which is the best electric car. So they're stuck with one with great engineering but rather lackluster range for something so focused from BMW. 

Everyone else just isn't even on the radar for electric vehicles. The Volt is a great product, but I do not see it as a true competitor to any Tesla current or future. ELR sucks plain and simple. It's a Chevy in a Cadillac tuxedo. Very stylish, but very compromised. 

So we're back at Tesla. Now I don't really want to root for Tesla, but they're still the best at it. The Model S has almost reached mid-cycle in its product life. The next 3 years are just waiting to be conquered by Tesla.

The Bolt is a wait and see sort of deal. I think it's going to conquest Volt or Leaf buyers more than anything else.

I am far more intrigued and impressed with $30K electric cars that can go 200 miles, than I am with $100K electric  cars.

I am pretty sure a GM or Ford can build a $100K electric car to rival Tesla.

Considering sales volumes of them, I don't think they are in any hurry to do so.

I am far more intrigued and impressed with $30K electric cars that can go 200 miles, than I am with $100K electric  cars.

 

I am pretty sure a GM or Ford can build a $100K electric car to rival Tesla.

Considering sales volumes of them, I don't think they are in any hurry to do so.

Of course, any would be. But none of them exist as of this time. When they will, Tesla will also have the Model 3 for sale. Tesla's got the brand equity, the reputation and the backs of early adopters. They hold a position of strength. People do complain that Tesla loses money of every sale, but then we have to consider what's the reduced cost of every Volt produced? How about an i3? or Leaf or Focus electric?

My guess: atleast a few multiples of the supposed $4000 that Tesla loses; and Tesla's losses are attributable to their massive investments in charging infrastructure and product development, not because of products that are salesproof to the vast majority of the conventional buyers for the respective brands.

The first cars were luxury products until, Ford for example, rationalized the idea of selling at a lower price by radically increasing production volumes and keeping product permutations to a minimum. Musk is doing the same for electric vehicles. Why not get the most out of the transition period?

Anyways, back to the Bolt everyone. I'm done indulging why Tesla is still a winner.

I don't want tesla, check it, make that Elon Musk to succeed.

My preference is GM or ford make the breakthrough or the world automakers collaborate to define the electrical infrastructure before the governments tell them more specifically how to build their cars.

Really, global electric car standards may force global electricity production standards, grid design etc. plus the possibility of roadways that themselves collect electricity. What will creep in too, unfortunately is integrating automated driving cars and their tyranny with big brother. A truly globally managed solution I'm afraid. Self driving little plastic $h! boxes that look like tata cars and have every bit and piece monitored or controlled by one central think tank.

 

I am far more intrigued and impressed with $30K electric cars that can go 200 miles, than I am with $100K electric  cars.

 

I am pretty sure a GM or Ford can build a $100K electric car to rival Tesla.

Considering sales volumes of them, I don't think they are in any hurry to do so.

 

Of course, any would be. But none of them exist as of this time. When they will, Tesla will also have the Model 3 for sale. Tesla's got the brand equity, the reputation and the backs of early adopters. They hold a position of strength. People do complain that Tesla loses money of every sale, but then we have to consider what's the reduced cost of every Volt produced? How about an i3? or Leaf or Focus electric?

 

My guess: atleast a few multiples of the supposed $4000 that Tesla loses; and Tesla's losses are attributable to their massive investments in charging infrastructure and product development, not because of products that are salesproof to the vast majority of the conventional buyers for the respective brands.

 

The first cars were luxury products until, Ford for example, rationalized the idea of selling at a lower price by radically increasing production volumes and keeping product permutations to a minimum. Musk is doing the same for electric vehicles. Why not get the most out of the transition period?

 

Anyways, back to the Bolt everyone. I'm done indulging why Tesla is still a winner.

 

If they are losing money on every $100K car they are currently selling, how will they continue to be 'winners' by introducing a Model 3 that generates far less ATP's?

I don't see it.

 

 

I am far more intrigued and impressed with $30K electric cars that can go 200 miles, than I am with $100K electric  cars.

 

I am pretty sure a GM or Ford can build a $100K electric car to rival Tesla.

Considering sales volumes of them, I don't think they are in any hurry to do so.

 

Of course, any would be. But none of them exist as of this time. When they will, Tesla will also have the Model 3 for sale. Tesla's got the brand equity, the reputation and the backs of early adopters. They hold a position of strength. People do complain that Tesla loses money of every sale, but then we have to consider what's the reduced cost of every Volt produced? How about an i3? or Leaf or Focus electric?

 

My guess: atleast a few multiples of the supposed $4000 that Tesla loses; and Tesla's losses are attributable to their massive investments in charging infrastructure and product development, not because of products that are salesproof to the vast majority of the conventional buyers for the respective brands.

 

The first cars were luxury products until, Ford for example, rationalized the idea of selling at a lower price by radically increasing production volumes and keeping product permutations to a minimum. Musk is doing the same for electric vehicles. Why not get the most out of the transition period?

 

Anyways, back to the Bolt everyone. I'm done indulging why Tesla is still a winner.

 

 

 

If they are losing money on every $100K car they are currently selling, how will they continue to be 'winners' by introducing a Model 3 that generates far less ATP's?

I don't see it.

 

I didn't explicitly or implicitly suggest or intended to suggest for Tesla to win it will beat others in the electric segment profitability.

Back to Bolt.

I am pretty sure a GM or Ford can build a $100K electric car to rival Tesla.

They did. It was called the ELR and it sits on lots for 30K off sticker price. 

That's not an electric car. It has a gas engine.

I am far more intrigued and impressed with $30K electric cars that can go 200 miles, than I am with $100K electric  cars.

 

I am pretty sure a GM or Ford can build a $100K electric car to rival Tesla.

Considering sales volumes of them, I don't think they are in any hurry to do so.

 

Of course, any would be. But none of them exist as of this time. When they will, Tesla will also have the Model 3 for sale. Tesla's got the brand equity, the reputation and the backs of early adopters. They hold a position of strength. People do complain that Tesla loses money of every sale, but then we have to consider what's the reduced cost of every Volt produced? How about an i3? or Leaf or Focus electric?

 

My guess: atleast a few multiples of the supposed $4000 that Tesla loses; and Tesla's losses are attributable to their massive investments in charging infrastructure and product development, not because of products that are salesproof to the vast majority of the conventional buyers for the respective brands.

 

The first cars were luxury products until, Ford for example, rationalized the idea of selling at a lower price by radically increasing production volumes and keeping product permutations to a minimum. Musk is doing the same for electric vehicles. Why not get the most out of the transition period?

 

Anyways, back to the Bolt everyone. I'm done indulging why Tesla is still a winner.

 

 

If they are losing money on every $100K car they are currently selling, how will they continue to be 'winners' by introducing a Model 3 that generates far less ATP's?

I don't see it.

 

I didn't explicitly or implicitly suggest or intended to suggest for Tesla to win it will beat others in the electric segment profitability.

 

Back to Bolt.

It IS an impressive vehicle, isn't it?

An impressive ELECTRIC vehicle, based on what we've been promised.  The proof will be in the pudding.

All the mfrs will eventually have to get together to standArdize plug in only electric infrastructure and electrical architecture before it takes off but gm could choose to lead in this area. It will take a world effort however. Many countries. Many automakers.

 

This is the problem. They should get together but as of now they are just in a pissing match to promote their system as the leader. We have seen it before with Electrical plugs globally where it is still unresolved but we have also seen it in thing like Video that had the Beta/VHS war that was resolved and now means little.

 

Tesla did it. They've open-sourced everything needed and provided the necessary leadership for standardized infrastructure.

Yes Tesla offered what they had but the truth is no one is interested in their system. Again they all are looking to be the one who sets the standard. If everyone came to GM, Toyota and or any other MFG and asked to use their connectors they would get it for free too.

You have to understand Musk is the master of PR and only did his offer in public for image nothing more. He offered nothing that most others would also serve up.

The real problem is no one even Tesla is selling enough cars to claim the right to set the standards. Who ever sells the most cars or make the most charging stations will gain an advantage but even there the Tesla charging stations are still too few to take the right to set the standard.

Again this really needs to be settled with all makers in a SAE standard. We had this problem back in the early days of the automobile where everyone made nuts and bolts to what ever standard they wanted. In time they got together and settled on the SAE standard and that solved many issues going into the future.

 

I am pretty sure a GM or Ford can build a $100K electric car to rival Tesla.

They did. It was called the ELR and it sits on lots for 30K off sticker price. 

 

Wrong, the ELR is not a Pure EV auto. It is a glamoured version of the Volt, Hybrid electric auto with a generator. We all know they missed many things to make this better as to why they sit around.

I am far more intrigued and impressed with $30K electric cars that can go 200 miles, than I am with $100K electric  cars.

 

I am pretty sure a GM or Ford can build a $100K electric car to rival Tesla.

Considering sales volumes of them, I don't think they are in any hurry to do so.

GM and Ford haven't built anything like that though. So while any big company "CAN" these companies AREN'T. 

The ELR was just a deal where some of the old GM people thought it was a good idea to take a show car never really intended for production and put a Volt Drivetrain in it. Once they were gone you can notice that the new Cadillac people have no interest in it.

The fact is Tesla really did not do anything different than to offer a very expensive large sedan that no one in the industry though anyone would buy. Well they did mostly due to over the top marketing as Musk rivals PT Barnum in generating excitement.

The fact is the rest now know it can be done and they all will enter this market sooner than later. GM can do it very easy and I expect with the coming platforms they will enter a Tesla fighter in due time. The Truth is Cadillac is more focused on a Benz and BMW fighter than Tesla right now as the volume is so very low in this segment. I expect a due use car where it may be offered in Gas and Electric models. This way they can spread the cost out. Tesla could use a gas version of their car right now as it would really increase the volume to where they need it. You can only go on losing money per unit for so long. Lutz addressed this in his column in Road and Track this month.

There is no doubt that GM and Ford could build a Tesla killer but why? Tesla is not making money yet and the segment is small. To do this right they need to make a platform designed to be used correctly with the electric platform. This is expensive and at this point they would never recover the cost short term. These models will come in time and now is not the time. How many other things does Cadillac and Lincoln need to address first. Many!

By the way start to watch for work with Honda. Mark let it slip that GM and Honda are working together on technology for a new driveline. I suspect it is Fuel Cells as both are well vested in it and Honda could use a dance partner here to share cost and help advance the program. GM could do both very easily.

Add this to the expanding lineup of electric and more fuel efficient gas and diesel GM will have a strong line up with all they will have to offer.

The ELR was just a deal where some of the old GM people thought it was a good idea to take a show car never really intended for production and put a Volt Drivetrain in it. Once they were gone you can notice that the new Cadillac people have no interest in it.

 

The fact is Tesla really did not do anything different than to offer a very expensive large sedan that no one in the industry though anyone would buy. Well they did mostly due to over the top marketing as Musk rivals PT Barnum in generating excitement.

 

The fact is the rest now know it can be done and they all will enter this market sooner than later. GM can do it very easy and I expect with the coming platforms they will enter a Tesla fighter in due time. The Truth is Cadillac is more focused on a Benz and BMW fighter than Tesla right now as the volume is so very low in this segment. I expect a due use car where it may be offered in Gas and Electric models. This way they can spread the cost out. Tesla could use a gas version of their car right now as it would really increase the volume to where they need it. You can only go on losing money per unit for so long. Lutz addressed this in his column in Road and Track this month.

 

There is no doubt that GM and Ford could build a Tesla killer but why? Tesla is not making money yet and the segment is small. To do this right they need to make a platform designed to be used correctly with the electric platform. This is expensive and at this point they would never recover the cost short term. These models will come in time and now is not the time. How many other things does Cadillac and Lincoln need to address first. Many!

I agree with you on most points and believe GM needs to get the VOLT powertrain out on multiple lines of auto's, every car line for sure should have a version of the VOLT powertrain.

Tesla hates petro so much sadly they will lose due to not embracing some kind of VOLT type power train. Imagine a generator on an auto with a 200 mile range of battery and with generator 600 miles is capable. This becomes a real road trip capable auto.

The ELR was just a deal where some of the old GM people thought it was a good idea to take a show car never really intended for production and put a Volt Drivetrain in it. Once they were gone you can notice that the new Cadillac people have no interest in it.

 

The fact is Tesla really did not do anything different than to offer a very expensive large sedan that no one in the industry though anyone would buy. Well they did mostly due to over the top marketing as Musk rivals PT Barnum in generating excitement.

 

The fact is the rest now know it can be done and they all will enter this market sooner than later. GM can do it very easy and I expect with the coming platforms they will enter a Tesla fighter in due time. The Truth is Cadillac is more focused on a Benz and BMW fighter than Tesla right now as the volume is so very low in this segment. I expect a due use car where it may be offered in Gas and Electric models. This way they can spread the cost out. Tesla could use a gas version of their car right now as it would really increase the volume to where they need it. You can only go on losing money per unit for so long. Lutz addressed this in his column in Road and Track this month.

 

There is no doubt that GM and Ford could build a Tesla killer but why? Tesla is not making money yet and the segment is small. To do this right they need to make a platform designed to be used correctly with the electric platform. This is expensive and at this point they would never recover the cost short term. These models will come in time and now is not the time. How many other things does Cadillac and Lincoln need to address first. Many!

I agree with you on most points and believe GM needs to get the VOLT powertrain out on multiple lines of auto's, every car line for sure should have a version of the VOLT powertrain.

 

Tesla hates petro so much sadly they will lose due to not embracing some kind of VOLT type power train. Imagine a generator on an auto with a 200 mile range of battery and with generator 600 miles is capable. This becomes a real road trip capable auto.

Tesla and Musk do not hate gasoline he just believes he can do this all on a couple models and all electric and fully committed to it.

the real trick is for GM is they have to continue to perfect the Volt system to the point it is cheaper and more capable. Then each platform much be designed to be used with it. We have seen a marked difference in the Cruze based Volt with the new platform vs. the converted old one.

I feel GM's plan is to make all platforms able to support this and even all electric along with the gas powered drivetrains as this would open the door to about anything even Fuel Cell.

The truth is with the coming regulations they need to be prepared for about anything.

Must could really offset the losses with a gas powered version of his car but I really don't thing it is possible with the way it is. Also he really now does not have the money for it unless he takes it out of his own pocket. That is what prevents this not that he hates gas. For Gods sake the man used to own a McLaren F1 and may still own it. Musk in a entapenure not a tree hugger when you really learn about him. He may poses himself as saving the world but he feels he can do it by paying people to make things the can make money with. He also wants to make an image of himself as a Henry Ford and Edison while paying others to do the inventing.