GM Plans On Importing CT6 Plug-In Hybrid from China

This does not bother me and I think it will work well for GM. Eventually I hope that sales get to the point where they can justify building them here.

Makes complete sense. 

The first *GM vehicle to be imported from China will be the Buick Envision.  The Volvo S60 Inscription is already here and is imported from China.

I dunno guys. I love the CT6.  I feel that luxury cars are one of the few cars even that we should expect to represent domestic manufacturing consistently all the time. 

I'm okay with them building the CT6 for local consumption in other markets. Hell, that makes for an intelligent business case. 

But if I had the coin, I'd vote powerfully and not get a plug-in CT6. And I thought there were competitive synergies with building Voltec based vehicles together in the same facility. Clearly, it isn't so. In fact, I want the plug-in to fail in North America, because I simply do not believe consumers of $90,000 plus flagship vehicles should pay for a Chinese made car from an American brand.

I also don't like Audi for building their next North American facility in Mexico for its most profitable models. I just find all this off-shoring appalling. 

And once you lose production, it's gone forever. Part of the blame has to be the noncompetitive organized labour. It's troubling to see them trade away much needed production of vehicles at home in exchange for some meager increases in job security and the production of vehicles that can only succeed in good times with low fuel prices combined. Basically, I think it was so short-sighted to allow production to be off-shored.

Worst case scenario is to see just like the drug discovery industry is see the entire design, development and manufacturing of the cars themselves go along with them out of North America. 

where are the batteries for this made

A Cadillac sold in the USA, made in China is sad.  I think this is the beginning of the slippery slope.  Envision and CT6, then in a few years it could be the Regal and LaCrosse, etc.  Once they start producing cars on the cheap in China they'll keep it going if they can get away with selling them.   I would not buy a Chinese made car.

A Cadillac sold in the USA, made in China is sad.  I think this is the beginning of the slippery slope.  Envision and CT6, then in a few years it could be the Regal and LaCrosse, etc.  Once they start producing cars on the cheap in China they'll keep it going if they can get away with selling them.   I would not buy a Chinese made car.

But I bet just about everything else you own is made in China. Love how the line is drawn because it is the company you DON'T prefer. Given that Benz has a Chinese facility or two, let me ask you a question. Say you had to move to China (call it job related) and you want to buy a new Benz there that you really like (a long wheelbase E-Class is made there) and that it happens to be made there. Would you buy it?

A Cadillac sold in the USA, made in China is sad.  I think this is the beginning of the slippery slope.  Envision and CT6, then in a few years it could be the Regal and LaCrosse, etc.  Once they start producing cars on the cheap in China they'll keep it going if they can get away with selling them.   I would not buy a Chinese made car.

You would't buy a Cadillac build by Mercedes in the S-class factory, so I don't know what the big difference is to you....

A Cadillac sold in the USA, made in China is sad.  I think this is the beginning of the slippery slope.  Envision and CT6, then in a few years it could be the Regal and LaCrosse, etc.  Once they start producing cars on the cheap in China they'll keep it going if they can get away with selling them.   I would not buy a Chinese made car.

LMFAO.. U won't buy an AMERICAN CAR.. and if U did.. U'd put it down because it wasn't German..

Its all laughable since U go out of your way to support a company only builds 2.. of its 17 vehicles in the United States. Ironically the S-Classes we see could possibly be assembled in India.. not just Sindelfingen, Germany

As for the CT6Hybrid.. again.. makes sense. Volume will be low in the segment, especially looking at the competitors Hybrid makes such as the 7Series, S-Class, and Lexus LS Hybrid's sales. GM is smart to utilize its factories. I talked to someone close to the situation and they tell me that this is a situation where there is not profit sharing when they leave the country (China), as it is when they are sold inside.

I wouldn't move to China, just as I wouldn't buy a car made in China.  And I owned 2 American cars before the German one.  And before I bought my E-class I also drove a 2010 Genesis 4.6, 2010 CTS and 2010 or 11 MKZ.   The MKZ was obviously the worst car, felt like driving a Fusion, I did like the V8 aspect of the Genesis, but it was just too boring of a car, and the CTS just didn't have enough power form the 3.6, unless it was at 5,000 rpm.  So I didn't just default to a German car.  But I liked the E-class the best.

I wonder how many cars GM decides to make in China and import.  This is the 2nd one, what if there is a 3rd, 4th, or 5th?

As explained in this article and the Envision ones, it's based on where the car will sell the most copies. They're only planning on selling 60k Envisions here, they sold 174k in China in 2015. The CT6 PHEV will likely be very low volume in the US, larger in China, but still relatively small. Makes sense to only have one production line for such a low volume vehicle.

I expect Regal will move out of north America too eventually, but I could see that going back to Germany where they need the volume to fill the factory capacity. The Chinese bought nearly 100k Regals last year.

So if the CTS has more sales in China than in the USA, should they move all CTS production to China as well?  I get why they are doing it with the Envision, they need a crossover yesterday and this is the fastest way to do it.  As far as the CT6 goes, they might sell 20 plug in hybrids a month, so I get not wanting factory tooling for that.  I just think if it works here, what is to top GM for building every Cruze in China and shipping it here?  Once you go down that road it is hard to turn back.

I wouldn't move to China, just as I wouldn't buy a car made in China.  And I owned 2 American cars before the German one.  And before I bought my E-class I also drove a 2010 Genesis 4.6, 2010 CTS and 2010 or 11 MKZ.   The MKZ was obviously the worst car, felt like driving a Fusion, I did like the V8 aspect of the Genesis, but it was just too boring of a car, and the CTS just didn't have enough power form the 3.6, unless it was at 5,000 rpm.  So I didn't just default to a German car.  But I liked the E-class the best.

 

I wonder how many cars GM decides to make in China and import.  This is the 2nd one, what if there is a 3rd, 4th, or 5th?

You didn't answer my question. The key phase there was "if you HAD to move to China" and you side step that completely. That pretty much answers my question though. Thanks.

So if the CTS has more sales in China than in the USA, should they move all CTS production to China as well?  I get why they are doing it with the Envision, they need a crossover yesterday and this is the fastest way to do it.  As far as the CT6 goes, they might sell 20 plug in hybrids a month, so I get not wanting factory tooling for that.  I just think if it works here, what is to top GM for building every Cruze in China and shipping it here?  Once you go down that road it is hard to turn back.

You seem to lack a certain fundamental understanding of world economics. 

So if the CTS has more sales in China than in the USA, should they move all CTS production to China as well?

IMO.. and to spite the American workers who go off and buy Foreign vehicles built by foreign labor.. I'd say YEAH.. Eff the American worker. They reap what they sow. U want GM and Ford to build exclusively in America.. then everyone in the American population needs to shun the Foreign makers and buy strictly GM and Ford, or at the very least.. only vehicle by Foreign companies made right here in the U.S. U can not give GM $h! for importing two vehicles, one very low volume, and not give Toyota $h! for importing the 100K+ Annual Prius from Japan. China or Japan.. same difference to me; feeding a mouth and putting food on a table that isn't AMERICAN

So if the CTS has more sales in China than in the USA, should they move all CTS production to China as well?  I get why they are doing it with the Envision, they need a crossover yesterday and this is the fastest way to do it.  As far as the CT6 goes, they might sell 20 plug in hybrids a month, so I get not wanting factory tooling for that.  I just think if it works here, what is to top GM for building every Cruze in China and shipping it here?  Once you go down that road it is hard to turn back.

How do you walk around at work without bumping into things? Your vision is so narrow. 

The CTS is built on the same production line as the ATS and Camaro.  Look at the total volume for those cars and that is why they won't move it to China.   The Envision doesn't share a platform with anything currently built in the US (I'm told it will be so different from the Terrain and 'Nox, that even sharing with them is still a question mark for GM).  The Regal would make sense to move to Germany because 1) Volumes are low. 2) Opel could use the extra production volume. 3) The Oshwa plant already has trouble making enough Chevy Equinoxes so freeing up space from Regal would allow greater 'Nox production. 4) It would cut Regal production plants from 3 to 2.

If I had to live in China, no question I would buy the Cadillac made in China.

I'd be the only way.

But what we know is that the hamtramck plant will also build the Bolt. The batteries are coming from LG Chem from South Korea anyways.

But...different markets have different needs at some levels. I object to any Cadillac flagship iteration being assembled in China to sell in America not because the product won't be up to the quality.

I fear that people looking at moroney - and Cadillac is a whole should not put any reasons for people to be belligerent towards the cars it makes, especially a flagship product (even as a placeholder), because Cadillac is really going for it. 

Or Cadillac can hedge their bets, and "fire" any customers that were looking to excuse themselves of excellent product because of bounded rationality and loyalty.

The difference is, that we auto enthusiasts know the score. It makes utter absolute sense for Cadillac to source the car from where it'll sell most. Heck, Ford would've done that for the new Taurus, but probably didn't want the test the "Made in China" waters yet - or didn't want to be the first.

Cadillac will have a hell of a time trying to get people to empathize with them if they nitpick against the place of origin of the CT6 plug-in. But because I do not see the value (the intangible ability to fully claim that the vehicle is fully American, the height of luxury built by Americans, for Americans) being delivered through this arguably wise financial decision... I have to say I would not buy the plug-in.

I'd surely get the 3.0TT Platinum this, check box that, sign here please, Thank you Thursday... thank you.

I just think once you build 2 cars in China, it is easy to build 3 or 4, and then they are going down that road.

Johan told Car and Driver that they are working on a 4.2 liter bi-turbo V8 with upper 400s horsepower for the CT6.  They need that ASAP, and I'd actually like to see them put that in the CTS V-sport and ATS-V.  Then the 3.0 TT V6 can be the mid-level engine in the CTS and ATS, and the 2.0T would be the base engine.  Then you don't really need the 3.6 V6 anymore, and Cadillac sedans would be all turbo.  

I thinking that the HP rating he gave us was buckus. Why building a turbo 4.2l v8 with 460+ when the LF4 already boasts almost 470hp with a smaller displacement. I think this engine will be in the 500 range.

I thinking that the HP rating he gave us was buckus. Why building a turbo 4.2l v8 with 460+ when the LF4 already boasts almost 470hp with a smaller displacement. I think this engine will be in the 500 range.

I agree, I think he was just blowing smoke for now and expect the twin turbo V8 to be near 600HP when it comes out, no less than 550HP.

This sounds like it is a model turbo V8 and such an engine does have a place in the line-up in base trim.  That doesn't mean it can't be tuned up higher from there.

Based on the Hp/L Cadillac is getting out of the 3.6, the 4.2 should be in the 540 range when maxed out. I have a suspicion that the number will be 500... exactly. 500 has been a magical number for Cadillac before. 

I think the car will be an incredible achievement in technical aspects.

But I think the car does not communicate its purpose so well. I just look at this as another luxury bruiser. But in reality it is a full sized luxury Corvette. So people may still try to gauge the conventional aspects of the car - such as interior quality and overall styling over the dynamic aspects.

And really, the Buick Lacrosse, no, just even the Chevy Impala are excellent enough driving large sedans.

Even ConsumerReport's resident Mercedes-lover, the guy with slickster hair, always wears a tasteful sweater and accent akined the driving dynamics of the Impala to (If I recall correctly) an current gen E-Class. That's good enough in my books, to say the least.

So how much more are people really willing to pay for a better driving car... that is up in the question books. Because the traditional "driver's cars" have regressed in that respect to focus on overall luxury.

I think the car will be an incredible achievement in technical aspects.

 

But I think the car does not communicate its purpose so well. I just look at this as another luxury bruiser. But in reality it is a full sized luxury Corvette. So people may still try to gauge the conventional aspects of the car - such as interior quality and overall styling over the dynamic aspects.

 

And really, the Buick Lacrosse, no, just even the Chevy Impala are excellent enough driving large sedans.

 

Even ConsumerReport's resident Mercedes-lover, the guy with slickster hair, always wears a tasteful sweater and accent akined the driving dynamics of the Impala to (If I recall correctly) an current gen E-Class. That's good enough in my books, to say the least.

 

So how much more are people really willing to pay for a better driving car... that is up in the question books. Because the traditional "driver's cars" have regressed in that respect to focus on overall luxury.

I've been bombarded with this comparison before.. many times. My Impala is constantly thought to be a luxury car. It is constantly challenged by Es and 5s.. GSs and even ugly Equus. Each on have been seriously taken aback.. or had their asses busted.

The Driving capabilities of Epsilon II are just too great to ignore. U just can't do it. Even without MRC they are hands down some of the, if not the, best handling FWD cars on the market. I don't kno what the hell GM was thinking when engineering these vehicles but the result was my Impala can out-handle many RWD tuned application no issue. Even more scary is that the Regal GS and Malibu LTZ... is even more competent. 

To the CT6; I believe that when the embargo lifts next week and U start seeing test drives of the vehicle we will be in awe. If all Cadillac did was transfer the ability of the CTS over to this car it would still be best in class handling.. couple in the size being as large as any of the German 3, with even more tuned, technological capabilities, such as RW-Steering (I will adapt to RWS) and U have a game change.. BEFORE the CT7 and 8 even arrive. That's something. 

I am seriously hoping reviewers, when testing and doing comparos, will put aside their prejudice and preconceived notions about the car not being an "S-Class competitor.." IT IS. Again in the same way the Panamera and XJ are.. and to an extent the LS460.. this car is an S-Class competitor BEFORE the actual S-Class competitor arrives. That's saying something. The question to ponder is; If this is 95% of what the S-Class is supposed to be.. what the EFF does Cadillac have in mind for the CT8?

I think the car will be an incredible achievement in technical aspects.

 

But I think the car does not communicate its purpose so well. I just look at this as another luxury bruiser. But in reality it is a full sized luxury Corvette. So people may still try to gauge the conventional aspects of the car - such as interior quality and overall styling over the dynamic aspects.

 

And really, the Buick Lacrosse, no, just even the Chevy Impala are excellent enough driving large sedans.

 

Even ConsumerReport's resident Mercedes-lover, the guy with slickster hair, always wears a tasteful sweater and accent akined the driving dynamics of the Impala to (If I recall correctly) an current gen E-Class. That's good enough in my books, to say the least.

 

 

So how much more are people really willing to pay for a better driving car... that is up in the question books. Because the traditional "driver's cars" have regressed in that respect to focus on overall luxury.

 

A lot of luxury cars sell well, and the luxury market overall seems to be growing.  People pay $85k for a Cadillac version of the Tahoe, just like people will pay $40k for a BMW 3-series that is the same size a a $20,000 Mazda 3.  I think there are always people willing to pay more money for more performance or more luxury.  A Camaro can do 90% of what a Corvette can do, but they still sell 30,000 Corvettes a year.

I'm not so sure the CT6 will be a game changer, or even do a whole lot to steal from the Germans or Lexus.  But I am quite interested to read the reviews and see the test drive videos, and see the comparisons.

ANOTHER post I making a la OLDHURST441 Style.

These are some thoughts I've had about what Cadillac is trying to achieve with the CT6. They're random ramblings, and many things I sometimes disagree as totally absurd... and then I flip-flop in my mind because then I keep finding things that Cadillac is doing that belie their true intentions. I agree to continue to disagree with myself. But I do agree I would never actually consider the German makes. I like Caddy, Lincoln/Buick and Lexus (if the LS is as nice as the LC 500, then put the LS before Lincoln/Buick) and Genesis in that order in the anything full-size premium or above sedan segment.

The CT6 is a game-changer for Cadillac in some ways. In other ways it isn't, because it became yet another placeholder for a car that doesn't yet exist. Cadillac has yet to clear the business case for the next one up. Again, I love the car. But I feel Cadillac is giving mixed communications. I'm dead-set that the product is going to be spectacular for everything that is really on the bottom of the priority lists for flagship car buyers of the competition and in some respects it comes of as staunch hypocrisy against their supposed heritage - but it damn works for them somehow. The competition is trying to do cars that drive themselves. Full autonomy. Which means their clients are slowly becoming convinced that only lower class folk steer their vehicles. Again... random rambling, rabble rabble....

And really, if the "true" flagship is built on Omega...how is the CT6 going to sit next to it? I think the problem with another large sedan with a nicer interior...perhaps more concept car looks... is that they take up the really same segment space and are redundant, and a fancy headlights and leather job is much more profitable as a trim line than new model. Unless it's like a Mercedes-Maybach style thing. Which is again following a standard set by someone else. But if they incorporate a Mercedes-Maybach style enlargement and do a Lincoln Black Label style interior sprucing, then I see some mojo going right.

But wouldn't that be the slightly longer wheelbase flagship that Cadillac would've wanted in the first place? But then the materials and supply chain dudes pointed out that some door handles cost $0.25 while the ones worthy of glory or infamy (like worthy of glory like the S-Class or infamy like the Conti) are like a $1.00 each...things like that...

I will say the competition has like absurd price jumps. $100,000 up to like $250,000. Damn!!! And that's how get away with low volume minor body style work.

But Cadillac going from $55,000 to $140,000 ish (pimped out CT6-V)...it's the same kind of doing the uber price spread. Okay, variants. Good point. It's meaningless. 

I feel....but I really don't want to accept but seriously where the hell is the great dare? Is it $12 billions dollars away from now?

The great dare ought to be a great joke, because excellent product belies that fact that Johan lied when they said they wouldn't follow anyone, because it seems they are always following. Where do they decide that they've made a great dare? Because filling the long lack of a true American counter to full-size flagship luxury isn't much of a dare...it's something that has been poignantly missing at the cost of loss of prestige in an area where American sedans used to hole their own.

Now my counter to that feeling is

Throwing money at the problem (more leather, more wood trim, MOAR MOAR MOAR) is escalation of commitment of the wrong kind. so making a car the company can't sell is also flushing money down the toilet. And look at the Escalade. Cadillac certainly ain't following anyone there... and thus they control 75% of the full size luxury SUV market in America.....

Or if the next flagship is going to be a BMW style rehash of the same platform to get a slightly different body, how the hell is that not copying BMW?

I want to see Cadillac do things that put it on top, not on the same level as Mercedes or BMW. That is what I want to see. I want Cadillac in many respects cave in to what people want.  The only different thing I feel Cadillac is doing with the CT6 is that they are trying for an absurd value for money kind of deal for the lower-end CT6 models and it kinda throws a wrench in the works for the other products. The V6 with AWD upgrade is downright cheap compared to on the CTS where it's a like $5000 dollar jump in price. WTF?!!!

Why get an ATS sedan with the 2.0T when you can get a CT6 which is only 300 lbs heavier and is much bigger?  That is the message Cadillac is sending. By moving so quickly, the brand is doing great things...but everything before is being left behind. Even I don't expect the true flagship in the same fashion to weight less than an ATS because hey the CT6 weighs less than the CTS, and another 3 years of development means more mixed materials. More good stuff means more less weight. 

Everything so far - the products we see for 2017 and 2018 are before his time. He's only had the influence on names and market strategy. I don't trust JD as much as Reuss and Welburn. 

FEEL FREE TO DISAGREE, I recommend if you do disagree, please do DOWNVOTE, DISCUSS, CRUSH ALMIGHTY..RIP a new one...and if you agree, don't UPVOTE...because I myself am back and forth.

I feel like Cadillac's recent strategy has been to copy what others had work.  Lexus RX sells big, the SRX basically copies the name, similar size, price, fwd v6 set up, etc.  The ATS and CTS were made to copy the 3 and 5 series.  The XTS was a split between catering to Deville buyers, but also copying the Lexus ES, which is a dressed up Avalon, as the XTS is a dressed up Lacrosse/Impala.  XTS was also a stop gap product, I am not sure what CT6 is.  

To me CT6 is 7-series size for 5-series money, just as the CTS used to be 5-series size for 3-series money.   I'm not really sure what the point of going back down that road is.  I don't think Cadillac has a real plan other than to mimic the Germans size segments for crossovers and sedans, and undercut them on price in the process.

Another comparison on the progress the CT6 shows.  The CT6 Turbo-4 has more horsepower and lots more torque than the first gen CTS 3.6.  It has three more gears, and it is 14 inches longer.

It weighs 180 lbs more. 

ANOTHER post I making a la OLDHURST441 Style.

 

These are some thoughts I've had about what Cadillac is trying to achieve with the CT6. They're random ramblings, and many things I sometimes disagree as totally absurd... and then I flip-flop in my mind because then I keep finding things that Cadillac is doing that belie their true intentions. I agree to continue to disagree with myself. But I do agree I would never actually consider the German makes. I like Caddy, Lincoln/Buick and Lexus (if the LS is as nice as the LC 500, then put the LS before Lincoln/Buick) and Genesis in that order in the anything full-size premium or above sedan segment.

 

The CT6 is a game-changer for Cadillac in some ways. In other ways it isn't, because it became yet another placeholder for a car that doesn't yet exist. Cadillac has yet to clear the business case for the next one up. Again, I love the car. But I feel Cadillac is giving mixed communications. I'm dead-set that the product is going to be spectacular for everything that is really on the bottom of the priority lists for flagship car buyers of the competition and in some respects it comes of as staunch hypocrisy against their supposed heritage - but it damn works for them somehow. The competition is trying to do cars that drive themselves. Full autonomy. Which means their clients are slowly becoming convinced that only lower class folk steer their vehicles. Again... random rambling, rabble rabble....

 

And really, if the "true" flagship is built on Omega...how is the CT6 going to sit next to it? I think the problem with another large sedan with a nicer interior...perhaps more concept car looks... is that they take up the really same segment space and are redundant, and a fancy headlights and leather job is much more profitable as a trim line than new model. Unless it's like a Mercedes-Maybach style thing. Which is again following a standard set by someone else. But if they incorporate a Mercedes-Maybach style enlargement and do a Lincoln Black Label style interior sprucing, then I see some mojo going right.

 

But wouldn't that be the slightly longer wheelbase flagship that Cadillac would've wanted in the first place? But then the materials and supply chain dudes pointed out that some door handles cost $0.25 while the ones worthy of glory or infamy (like worthy of glory like the S-Class or infamy like the Conti) are like a $1.00 each...things like that...

 

I will say the competition has like absurd price jumps. $100,000 up to like $250,000. Damn!!! And that's how get away with low volume minor body style work.

 

But Cadillac going from $55,000 to $140,000 ish (pimped out CT6-V)...it's the same kind of doing the uber price spread. Okay, variants. Good point. It's meaningless. 

 

I feel....but I really don't want to accept but seriously where the hell is the great dare? Is it $12 billions dollars away from now?

 

The great dare ought to be a great joke, because excellent product belies that fact that Johan lied when they said they wouldn't follow anyone, because it seems they are always following. Where do they decide that they've made a great dare? Because filling the long lack of a true American counter to full-size flagship luxury isn't much of a dare...it's something that has been poignantly missing at the cost of loss of prestige in an area where American sedans used to hole their own.

 

Now my counter to that feeling is

 

Throwing money at the problem (more leather, more wood trim, MOAR MOAR MOAR) is escalation of commitment of the wrong kind. so making a car the company can't sell is also flushing money down the toilet. And look at the Escalade. Cadillac certainly ain't following anyone there... and thus they control 75% of the full size luxury SUV market in America.....

 

Or if the next flagship is going to be a BMW style rehash of the same platform to get a slightly different body, how the hell is that not copying BMW?

 

I want to see Cadillac do things that put it on top, not on the same level as Mercedes or BMW. That is what I want to see. I want Cadillac in many respects cave in to what people want.  The only different thing I feel Cadillac is doing with the CT6 is that they are trying for an absurd value for money kind of deal for the lower-end CT6 models and it kinda throws a wrench in the works for the other products. The V6 with AWD upgrade is downright cheap compared to on the CTS where it's a like $5000 dollar jump in price. WTF?!!!

 

Why get an ATS sedan with the 2.0T when you can get a CT6 which is only 300 lbs heavier and is much bigger?  That is the message Cadillac is sending. By moving so quickly, the brand is doing great things...but everything before is being left behind. Even I don't expect the true flagship in the same fashion to weight less than an ATS because hey the CT6 weighs less than the CTS, and another 3 years of development means more mixed materials. More good stuff means more less weight. 

 

Everything so far - the products we see for 2017 and 2018 are before his time. He's only had the influence on names and market strategy. I don't trust JD as much as Reuss and Welburn. 

 

 

FEEL FREE TO DISAGREE, I recommend if you do disagree, please do DOWNVOTE, DISCUSS, CRUSH ALMIGHTY..RIP a new one...and if you agree, don't UPVOTE...because I myself am back and forth.

Hilarious.