Detroit Auto Show: 2016 Cadillac CTS-V 640HP, 200MPH

Awesome job Cadillac. I think the 0-60 is conservative tho. 3.7 secs is absolutely sweet, but considering GM has been being conservative on this metric lately I'm betting more in the area of 3.4-3.5 the majority of test will get

95% awesomeness. Now give it that extra 5% to make it totally awesome with a manual transmission.

You got there just before I did. 

Can U merge?

I'll add that I believe that due to lack of AWD if may be on par with the E63AMG to 60. The AWD is advantage in the Benz due to lack of spin on take off, but.. Cadillac may have quelled that issue with the new Performance Traction Management tho. I'm thinking Cadillac bench-marked and exceeded the 11.6 sec @ 121.8 mph of the Benz E63AG from MT especially considering it boasts 50lbs of torque.. 63 more HP, and weighs 400lbs less than it and 300lbs less than the M5. Handling wise the two GErmans match the VSport's .95g.. I'm thinking the VSeries will beat this as well.

ugh... merge wasn't the right answer, but I got it all fixed

You know, I thought I'd like this car more than the ATS-V, but I don't. The design is just a tad more tidy and restrained on the ATS. Entirely intentional, I'm sure, as the CTS is already the more expressive of the two. Yet, when it comes to non V models, I prefer the CTS over the ATS for the same reasons I prefer the latter with V models. I can't really put my finger on why...

Anyways... With that said, excellent car overall. It's more of a logical, evolutionary move keeping many aspects of what made the last model such a highly-praised sports sedan (and wagon, and coupe; one the best cars I've ever driven). This will likely continue to rock the worlds of BMW, MB, and Audi as it has done so before. The only disappointing thing I see is the lack of manual transmission option. That's really only a minor issue, though it should be noted that BMW will surprisingly let you have an M5 with one. The RS6 (not sold here), E63, and XFR-S are all automatic only as well. 

This is a marvelous automobile. Cadillac has always been towards the top in luxury, but now adding power and sport to it makes it one of a kind. V8 and supercharged!!!! WOW!!!

Awesome auto, be interesting to hear how SMK picks it apart. Overall I think Cadillac outdid themselves on this auto. Be interesting to see what the German loving magazines have to say.

Absolutely what Cadillac needed to do to show the world what's up.

I like the styling more than the base CTS, the base car looks boring, the styling adjustments liven it up and make it more interesting. Not a fan of the carbon fiber package, I think the carbon fiber spoiler looks horrible (like those boy racer XKR-S Jaguars) it goes too far and looks tacky.  But that is optional, so no big deal.  I give them a well done on the styling, and the base CTS is a car I am not a big fan of styling wise.

Huge power, from a marketing standpoint it will be easy to advertise the 640 hp and how it is most powerful car in the segment.  But you wonder if they should have invested in all wheel drive instead of just more power, because power is only good if you can put it on the ground.  An Audi A6 with only 420 hp does 0-60 in 3.7 seconds because of the gearing and awd.  Even if Cadillac's number is conservative, which I doubt because they claimed 3.9 on the last car and that is what it was, I don't see them beating 3.5 and the all wheel drive AMG's can do that now.    But they gave the car the power and top speed an acceleration it needs, the margins are all so slim between all these sub 4 second sedans that a normal driver on a normal road won't be able to get any where near the limit.

I think on product execution, well done to Cadillac.  The problem is it is still a CTS, and if it is priced like an E63, it becomes a $100,000 CTS and is the market going to pay that?  The market didn't want a $77k STS or a $76k XLR, Cadillac cars struggle in that upper price range.

I just thought of something else.  This sets up a nice $100k American luxury sedan competition with the Tesla D-85.  The Tesla is faster than the CTS-V and no fuel costs.  Intriguing competition there with the gas vs electric.

The front split grille needs to be all CHROME to accentuate the new emblem.

If they do one of these in black with chrome wheels, a CHROME grille (not a blacked-out grille), and a manual transmission, then this thing would be perfect.

A solid performer and a good design. I think it is more cohesive design compared to the CTS V-Sport. Given sedan body style is a compromise in itself, a very well executed executive sedan.

Like BV said, it is disappointing to not to have manual transmission, considering 1 in 7 Gen 2 CTS-V sedans were manual transmissions. Again, GM ignores those small numbers. In this case, it is even more disappointing as the profit margin on the car is higher.

I just thought of something else.  This sets up a nice $100k American luxury sedan competition with the Tesla D-85.  The Tesla is faster than the CTS-V and no fuel costs.  Intriguing competition there with the gas vs electric.

Its silly to even think of "an American luxury sedan" competition when the ones that they need to worry about are all foreign.

Furthermore I wish people would be more ENTHUSIAST acting on these sites and understand that 0-60 is the dumbest thing in the world to judge a car carrying over 350HP, let alone over 600. 1/4 Mile is the measurement, and at a point we will have to veer off from even that as the more power these cars get the less likely they are gonna be able to depart from going further below the 3 sec runs. Other things, like chassis refinement, proper launching mechanisms, better tire technology etc are going to also be needed. Its one of the reasons why the 707HP Charger/Chall is probably gonna be slower to 60 when the comparisons are done to cars with only 650. Hell if U look at the numbers, even the 580 ZL1 isn't far off its 0-60 numbers. 

Hence the reason why the Charger HC can pull 11.8 sec @ 124.3 mph, .5sec less, and 9mph more than the ZL1, but its insignificant 0-60 is 3.7 vs the 3.9 by the ZL1. That's with over 127 more hp. Hence me loving the engine.. but not even remotely impressed with the car

A solid performer and a good design. I think it is more cohesive design compared to the CTS V-Sport. Given sedan body style is a compromise in itself, a very well executed executive sedan.

 

Like BV said, it is disappointing to not to have manual transmission, considering 1 in 7 Gen 2 CTS-V sedans were manual transmissions. Again, GM ignores those small numbers. In this case, it is even more disappointing as the profit margin on the car is higher.

Never say never. I could see them using it as a rolling change in a future year or with the addition of the coupe

I just thought of something else.  This sets up a nice $100k American luxury sedan competition with the Tesla D-85.  The Tesla is faster than the CTS-V and no fuel costs.  Intriguing competition there with the gas vs electric.

 

 

Its silly to even think of "an American luxury sedan" competition when the ones that they need to worry about are all foreign.

 

Furthermore I wish people would be more ENTHUSIAST acting on these sites and understand that 0-60 is the dumbest thing in the world to judge a car carrying over 350HP, let alone over 600. 1/4 Mile is the measurement, and at a point we will have to veer off from even that as the more power these cars get the less likely they are gonna be able to depart from going further below the 3 sec runs. Other things, like chassis refinement, proper launching mechanisms, better tire technology etc are going to also be needed. Its one of the reasons why the 707HP Charger/Chall is probably gonna be slower to 60 when the comparisons are done to cars with only 650. Hell if U look at the numbers, even the 580 ZL1 isn't far off its 0-60 numbers. 

Hence the reason why the Charger HC can pull 11.8 sec @ 124.3 mph, .5sec less, and 9mph more than the ZL1, but its insignificant 0-60 is 3.7 vs the 3.9 by the ZL1. That's with over 127 more hp. Hence me loving the engine.. but not even remotely impressed with the car

It's actually pretty dumb to judge even everyday cars by. People like SMK wander around talking about how the lastest family sedan will never sell because it gets to 60 0.5 seconds slower than the Accord V6 manual... when the vast majority of buyers don't care. Or like when I get questioned on my purchase of an Encore because it is slow (it is, if I were racing it) but around town it is geared to feel zippy.

Unless you are actively racing a car on a drag strip, none of these measurements matter, and the only time to bring it up is if a car is slow enough to be dangerous in traffic.

 

A solid performer and a good design. I think it is more cohesive design compared to the CTS V-Sport. Given sedan body style is a compromise in itself, a very well executed executive sedan.

 

Like BV said, it is disappointing to not to have manual transmission, considering 1 in 7 Gen 2 CTS-V sedans were manual transmissions. Again, GM ignores those small numbers. In this case, it is even more disappointing as the profit margin on the car is higher.

Never say never. I could see them using it as a rolling change in a future year or with the addition of the coupe

 

It will be good news but I doubt it. I can see GM middle execs making business case of not having one. I wanted to see the 7-speed being used on more applications, given how marvelous it is.

The 0-60 time doesn't really matter that much, as I said earlier the margins between a CTS-V, M5, AMG, S6, Panamera, etc are so slim and most normal drivers couldn't tell the difference. Without a race car driver on a race track you couldn't really tell which car is fastest.

I do think if the CTS-V interior was in the ATS 2.0t it would be a better match for the C-class.

The automatic probably makes it faster than the manual. And perhaps AWD is planned for the future and maybe that won't pair with a manual.

 

 

A solid performer and a good design. I think it is more cohesive design compared to the CTS V-Sport. Given sedan body style is a compromise in itself, a very well executed executive sedan.

 

Like BV said, it is disappointing to not to have manual transmission, considering 1 in 7 Gen 2 CTS-V sedans were manual transmissions. Again, GM ignores those small numbers. In this case, it is even more disappointing as the profit margin on the car is higher.

Never say never. I could see them using it as a rolling change in a future year or with the addition of the coupe

 

 

It will be good news but I doubt it. I can see GM middle execs making business case of not having one. I wanted to see the 7-speed being used on more applications, given how marvelous it is.

 

We'll ask Donny when we see him. 

The 0-60 time doesn't really matter that much, as I said earlier the margins between a CTS-V, M5, AMG, S6, Panamera, etc are so slim and most normal drivers couldn't tell the difference. Without a race car driver on a race track you couldn't really tell which car is fastest.

I do think if the CTS-V interior was in the ATS 2.0t it would be a better match for the C-class.

I'd put it another way... the margins between those cars are so slim that it comes down to driver skill and how many miles are on the tires.  On an actual track, it would come down to driver skill.

despite the amazingness, if had the dough for a car like this, I'd want AWD.

I think this car will do for the CTSV what the new Z06 did for the Corvette. This will put the car on the map for consideration.

Now with that said we have to also consider that this is not the destination Cadillac is even going to anymore. This was the original target but the new target has been advanced even more now. So in other words expect it to get better. This is where your AWD and other things will come in later. In the mean time do not underestimate the traction management program as GM has been know to have one of the best around. The AWD car will come out of a corner a little faster but odds are it will not be as fast winding out with more weight. Also it takes power to run the AWD so you have to account for that too.

As for the manual. It is easy to just say put it in but there is so much more involved. The fact is how may are they going to sell total? How much is the extras emissions testing? Will it have to be crash tested again and how much there? How long is this version of the car going to be with us as it is?

Consider this. If Cadillac is going big with their own engines in a couple years would it be worth the money for only a few years and only a few cars sold with it?

I am sure those who built this car would want it too but the fact is it comes down to money and if there is little to be made after all they have to deal with or for as long as this combo is in play they will not do it.

This car is only a stepping stone and we have better and badder yet to come. Trust me on that. In the mean time this car will help enhance Cadillac's image and they will continue to advance. As I have said the new image is built one new model at a time and this is just the next brick in the image wall.

The refinement of handling of this car is where it will shine out more than anything. GM has finally grasped how to properly tune a car that will set fast track times but also ride great and still know how to handle great going down the ruff back roads of America. This one will take what was already good to the next level. They no longer just slap on stiffer springs and bigger tires and it really shows they know how to do it right.

The Complains will be with the Cue and some interior trim issues but that will be about it other than some subjective things like the rear wing etc.

I just thought of something else.  This sets up a nice $100k American luxury sedan competition with the Tesla D-85.  The Tesla is faster than the CTS-V and no fuel costs.  Intriguing competition there with the gas vs electric.

Overrated Tesla, you can only go cross country on select roads unless you want to waste hours charging at 110. This car can be driven anywhere just about. Take this any day over Tesla.

Anyone that buys a $100k car isn't driving cross country, they are buying a plane ticket for $400.  The Tesla's range is fine for 95% of driving.  The Tesla does have image going for it, it has some wow factor, and it is a cool car to have.  The Cadillac brand still has baggage to get rid of.  I get that they are working on it, but it is still there.

Anyone that buys a $100k car isn't driving cross country, they are buying a plane ticket for $400.  The Tesla's range is fine for 95% of driving.  The Tesla does have image going for it, it has some wow factor, and it is a cool car to have.  The Cadillac brand still has baggage to get rid of.  I get that they are working on it, but it is still there.

We'll I have to disagree as I get no WOW factor out of Tesla, impressive for the technology but as a car, you sit on the floor, ease of getting in and out is not there and not impressed with driving dynamics.

Cadillac might have some baggage but then so does the over priced cost of repair and low dependable MB and BMW auto's. Only badge snobs buy them and yes if you want to throw money away on $1500 tuneups and wait weeks if not months for replacement parts to come, fine but I think Cadillac beats them both in many ways while still having plenty of options to expand to in the future.

There must be 1.5 million badge snobs born every year to keep that Mercedes factory rolling then.   Mercedes maintenance is costly but it depends on what it is, and usually it is because the parts are more expensive than what you get in a Toyota or Chevy.  The spark plug change/tune-up  service that is every 91,000 miles is about $550, but it includes some other BS checks and inspections and lubricate this and that, and an oil change.  A stand alone oil change on my car which is the V8 using 9.5 quarts of Mobil 1, is $127 plus tax at the Mercedes dealer and it lasts one year or 13,000 miles.  I think $130 per year for oil changes is pretty reasonable.   The ripoff service is the transmission fluid and filter change on the 7-speed auto, for some reason it is $403.

Image creates and supports many companies because people buy by the label.

Image sells better than reality.

I see it for years and collected money from people willing to pay through the nose for it with BMW and Benz.

The sad side is where I see people that buy the car and then can't afford to fix it. They are so short sighted to understand the ability to own one of these cars goes well past just buying it. You have to be able to afford to repair and service it too.

Just look at some guy who can afford the 308 Ferrari with low miles. Then he needs to do the 30,000 mile service and then finds he can no longer afford the car. But he does own a prancing horse label.

Logic and practicality has no place in the high end market. If it did they all would be driving Sonics.

despite the amazingness, if had the dough for a car like this, I'd want AWD.

Just don't see a need for it.. Then again.. if I'm going out in any weather where I may need a lot of traction I'm driving my Yukon.. or at the very least the Impala. Thing is I am so anal about my "upper" cars being clean that I wouldn't even drive it in the rain. 

At least they got the CTS-V right after they saddled the ATS-V with the inferior LF3 Bi-turbo engine instead of giving it the lighter, smaller, less expensive, just as fuel miserly and power powerful LT1 V8. I am somewhat luke warm to the styling, especially the big black spoiler on cars that have it, but perhaps they'll rectify that with the replacement of the previous generation's (very pretty) coupe.

Still, this is a car I will seriously look into buying 3~4 years down the road when it is available as a 3 year old pre-owned. I like it, but I have a personal code to never buy a new car -- ever -- due to the horrible economics of new car depreciation.

 

despite the amazingness, if had the dough for a car like this, I'd want AWD.

 

 

Just don't see a need for it.. Then again.. if I'm going out in any weather where I may need a lot of traction I'm driving my Yukon.. or at the very least the Impala. Thing is I am so anal about my "upper" cars being clean that I wouldn't even drive it in the rain. 

 

I can respect you not wanting to get your upper cars dirty, but then it is designed to be driven and have fun. That is why I drive my Trailblazer AWD SS everywhere even in snow, it is a blast to drive. Some day I will have to repaint it and clean it up and replace parts but till then, drive it like I am going to hell and trying to escape.

AWD will come in time but right now the price and weight may be an issue.

Let them get a little more upscale and then use one of the more advance Haldex system as an option.

Right now to get a system strong enough and advanced enough to handle the power may be costly for what people will pay for the present Cadillac. As time goes on they will see the value and then the price would not be as tough to pass on.

I expect once Cadillac moves to their own drivetrains and lines they will make this an option on most levels.

The front split grille needs to be all CHROME to accentuate the new emblem.

If they do one of these in black with chrome wheels, a CHROME grille (not a blacked-out grille), and a manual transmission, then this thing would be perfect.

Yep.  A chrome grill would give this Caddy a sharper look.  The designers may have been going after that "understated" look; nevertheless, my personal opinion is that the black grill cheapens the overall appearance of the car.  Chrome would give it the pop to stand out.  In addition, I, too, barely even noticed the new emblem.