Drew Dowdell

1. For 47k you can get as loaded a V6 CTS as you can get. 2. For 47k you can get a CTS with NAV which would have eliminated their gripe about the HVAC and Radio controls. 3. For 47k you can get a CTS-v... if that wouldn't effect the outcome, I dunno what will. The V will smoke any of the cars in that list for performance considering it runs in the same league as the M-series BMWs. 4. Car and Driver stacks the deck. Edit: I'm re-reading the review now.... They complain about the 4 preset buttons on the steering wheel. They aren't presets, they are programable for whatever function you want. I left mine in the default up/down for CD track and temperature, but they can be anything. The BMW's pushbutton start ....didn't. The ABS light came on durring the test, they spun the car at 70 because of ABS failure, and then the Airbag light came on. They didn't like the interior, the A/C wasn't strong enough for them..... yet it's the best of the bunch!?!

Carguy, you seem to have a lot of "they should just..." ideas that seem to be a lot more then slapping a coat of lipstick on a pig. They already have trouble with the torque from the 5.3 in the FWD cars. You don't think that 350hp and the corosponding torque won't cause MORE problems? While I'm sure 350hp in a FWD Impala SS is possible, I can't imagine many people thinking of that as a good idea.

I am talking about the bustleback. Why would I want either of those engines? A 350 will mate up to it, so if nothing else I can get an LT1 in there.

I'd love to find a cherry 1985 Seville with the 4100 and drop an LS-x in there.

I find the size of the CTS to be "just right" for me, that's why I bought one. The STS could have been a lil larger in the back seat area. I don't want something the size and weight of a Civic in a luxury sport sedan. I barely consider the 3-series, 9-3, or G35 in the luxury catagory anyway.

That's me right there. So far, with the exception of the CTS, if I like the way the car looks, it's doomed. Some of my favorites: Olds Aurora, Toronado, final gen 98, final gen Riv and Eldo 92-96 Fleetwood, Roadmaster Some of my least favorite: 300c, Hummers, Explorer, Avalon

Some of you <the bimmer lovers> just have no taste. :P I'll give you that the previoius gen 5er is a handsome vehicle, but the rest of them are just too slapped together looking. If I want something that cuts up a mountain pass I'll buy a Vette or a Miata. I want something with some luxury to it and BMW didn't have any of that till the previous gen 5er. But really these are two cars that have two different purposes..... yet each one is striving to be more like the other. The BMW has grown much more luxurious over the years and has lost a bit of it's nimbleness due to size and weight. The Seville/STS has grown much more slender, sleek and european. It's gained so much ground in handling that it only loses compairos to the BMW because Car and Driver doesn't like the turnsignal or some BS like that. Each of these cars are still on their respective sides of the fence, but they are much closer together in all aspects these days. Personally, I think it's a bad thing. The BMW is held up as a false ideal. It's not a bad car, but the car rags <and you bimmer lovers> insist that BMW is the only proper car. So then the sheep go out and buy a 5-series and use it a 4/10ths it's abilites. My 72 year old grandmother went out and bought a 745i because my Uncle told her they were the best even though she's had Park Avenues for as long as they've been building Park Avenues. Do you really think an '06 DTS would have suited her any less? BMW is a false ideal... and that's that.

And justifiably so....

1. That ass needs to go on Jenny Craig. 2. How does one know what gear one is in?

Same here fly.... and I can cherry pick also: Which one of those is the one that tells people you've arrived and which one is some quirky professor at a liberal arts college car? This one is an easy choice for me: Bangle... or beautiful?

This is great! More please GM!

It's easier to make in super high volume applications. For example, look at the number of installations the GM 3800 + 4speed FWD auto is in. All the W-bodies, G-bodies, H-bodies, Dustbuster mini-vans, Reatta, I've seen them in Fieros, Celebrities, Citations as mods. Fit it in the box <L,W,H> and it works, doesn't matter at all what's south of the firewall. Single design, fits in everything, saves engineering dollars, and you get big economies of scale by building so many of them. Think of it this way. There is some insane company out there that takes final gen Eldorados and drops an entire second powertrain in the trunk. Twin engine, twin transmission, 4 wheel drive, 800 hp <he tweeks the northstars>, and the engines can be run independently. It doesn't get much more portible then that. Can't do that with a CTS.

Remember the first rule of Automotive Journalism. If it isn't a BMW, automatically deduct 10 points. Extra 5 points deducted if it's a GM and an additional two if it's a Buick, Olds or Pontiac. Rule 2. If it is front wheel drive, no matter how well it handles or doesn't have torque steer, automatically deduct 20 points. Rule 3. Eight point deduction for a non-alfanumaric name.

Bias expectations against GM. Stupid coments about interior materials and how soft they are. It's not a pillow people, it's a door panel. Anyone remember when cars had machined stainless steel <the real stuff> on their dashboard? Soft touch my ass. ;-) Stupid comments about how a 4-speed auto is not as smooth as a 7 speed, 6 speed or 5 speed. Accord 5 speed autos have NEVER been smoother then the GM 4speed. 98% of the people who aren't members of this website probably don't know how many gears are in their automatic. Stupid comments about OHC being better then OHV because it's newer technology. Sure, it's newer technology, by about 10 years. OHC has been around since the mid 1920s at least. GM makes some of the finest OHV engines out there. People complained when GM shoehorned the pushrod corvette engine into the CTS-v. Yelled that it should have been a northstar. Fine, put a northstar in... and LOSE AT LEAST 80 HP!! Would people have complained if they put a Hemi in there? It's just kneejerk venom towards any OHV GM engine. The fucking footbrake. How many times has the CTS been dinged for having a foot activated parking break? How many people here know what kind of parking break the G35 Coupe w/auto has? I know... I sat in one today. I've never heard of C&D bashing Infinity for it. The fact that every automotive journalist does a test of a car only in the mindset of an automotive performance enthusiast. People here are guilty of it also. The only good car is the BMW 5-series. Period, that's it. That is the summery of every automotive review you'll EVER READ! I have for years wanted to start an automotive magazine that reviews cars based on the manufacturers intended purpose. Who in their right mind puts a non-GNX Buick through a slalom expecting it to handle like a corvette? Where is the DTS Drag Racing Federation of America that C&D keeps reviewing FWD dragsters for? They'll ding the DTS for having soft cushy seats....but it's SUPPOSED to be a soft cushy car! It's the homoganizing of the car industry. A few editors at large magazines have decided that BMW is the only manufacturer to make a car worth anything. The market is reponding to the percived quality and status. Then the competiors try and emulate the leader. So in the end we'll all be driving nearly identical cars with different badges on the fender. Congradulations. Now, my mother, who would have loved a Riviera or god willing an Eldorado because they were good looking <to her> and front wheel drive can't buy one.

That BMW just looks like a bland, eurocar that isn't even in the same class as the Seville. It has no presense. In the Seville you have arrived. In the BMW you simly got there. Put the BMW next to any other euro car of the same vintage and it is completly anonymous. That it handles great is simply an interesting footnote, it doesn't make it a luxury car. Corvettes handles great also. 1979 Volvo 1979 Saab Bimmer

They are reluctent to turn back because the best selling cars are all front wheel drive. Add up the yearly sales of of the following: All GM W-bodies Camry Accord Taurus/Sable You'll come up with a number that is larger then the combined sales of all of BMW and MB.

The droopy nose on the front makes it look like a mini-van

Seriously, the bimmer even broke down on them....

I have this C&D in front of me.... lets see here: A 42k Bimmer probably at or near sticker or a 36k CTS that I can probably get at employee discount around 32k. 42K will get you a LOT of CTS after employee discount. Certainly one with NAV what would kill their complaint about the dash screens. Or..... A 47k ?! Volvo... when I could get a CTS-v for probably the same price. It's just another case of C&D stacking the deck so they get the outcome they are looking for.

Oh... and you being abnormal and me being mad are not mutually exclusive ;-)

Seeing as they're all in the same lot, it would make it incredibly easy to end the problem with a few laps in a monster truck.

Well Hertz/Avis/Alamo... it was one of those. I did all the negotiation 350 miles from the actual car. Got her a 6 year, 60,000 mile warrenty lumped in to boot.

Are you doing any of your assesment of the LaX from actually sitting in one or spending any reasonable amount of time behind the wheel? The impression you are giving is that all your assesment is from those pictures. I think you need to go twiddle the knobs in a LaX before compairing them to an Accord because they are one of the things on the LaX that made me think Audi. The center stack in the LaX does flow rather well. If you're going to go after a poor flowing stack from GM, feel free to attack my CTS for it, but the LaX shouldn't be on your hit list. The LaX does have softer seats, the accord has firmer ones. That is a personal preference thing. I don't find either seat particularly comfortable but I prefer the LaX to the Accord. One of the things that sold me on my CTS was that the seat felt like it was designed specifically for my butt.

Why? Given that budget, what would you want your mother to drive in a Boston winter? Keep in mind that she's probably not going to invest in snow tires, she's probably not the best in bad weather. I much rather have my mother is a relatively tame FWD car with decent stability, some luxury features, and good looks. That's why I picked out a nice V6 Aurora, Hertz special for her. Fairly loaded for a V6 model, 6,000 miles, $26,000. It's a 2001 that she bought in 2002. A LaX CXS would be a great replacement for her.

Oh look, they decided to update the Dodge Raider.