Drew Dowdell

I think that the Aura will sell to folks who: 1. Have an Altima but got bit by Nissan's current reliability 2. Have/interested in a Mazda 6 but need something bigger 3. Last 4 cars were Camlys and now they want to try something else. 4. Former Sebring/Stratus owners.

I'm not a millionaire..... yet :AH-HA_wink: I'll only call myself a milionaire once my net assets are over one million. Right now, only gross assets are there.

As if the insurance companies needed an excuse to drive rates up...... but still, insurance premiums are not calculated that way. There is no "perception" about it at all. It's all based on past performance. The equation goes like this: (Last years medical bills for the entire company + 10%)/number of members in the plan = individual insurance premium for the year. again, it has nothing to do with any perception at all Most of the fortune 500 companies, GM included, offer partner benefits. If the insurance thing was going to be an issue it would already have happened! You cannot marry a goat because a goat cannot legally consent. Same reason you cannot marry a child. The difference is that one day, the child becomes a legal adult, and then they can legally consent. I like how you throw Darwinism and religion into the same rant. You are using a logical fallacy call Slippery Slope. I don't care if you affirm my union or not. That's your business. I just want my union legally protected in all the ways yours would if you were married. I'll let the nature of english language take it's course on the rest. :AH-HA_wink: No, it doesn't offend a gay person at all. But when I'm holding hands with my partner while walking through the mall... guess what, you can get over it. no, you took his statement the wrong way. He was saying how it is hipocritical of people to expect gay people to be invisible <no hand holding, etc> while straight people can be affectionate in public. It isn't the affection that is offensive, it's the hipocracy. because you keep setting up pins for me to knock down. eh, we pretty much all agreed it was a stupid commercial, and it is stupid for the gay rights group to get upset over it.... no one else had anything more to say about it so we moved on to a more important discussion.

Short wheel bases will do that to ya...<the fit's wheelbase that is>

BTW, The unitarians, episcopalians, lutherans, some sects of jewish faiths, many american indian faiths, and I'm sure some others, have some sort of homosexual union/marriage cerimony.

Kids are smart. Why not let them figure it out on their own?

uh.... we're everywhere. Not all gays live in little clusters in big cities. I live in a quiet, upscale suburb.

Majority rules? That's why we can no longer discriminate on race right? Calling it marriage is religious based? Three things to address that: 1. Seperation of church and state, you are now discriminating against me based on religion. 2. Some religions allow gay marriage. You are discriminating against one religion in favor of another. 3. The false assumption that the current definition of marriage that you tout is: a. The only current definition of marriage b. The way marriage has always been defined. Keep setting up the pins. I'll keep knocking them down.

How is promoting a monogamous relationship between two guys going to cause "higher risk"? The whole idea of allowing and promoting gay marriage is to promote monogamy. If gay men are monogamous, I fail to see the "high risk" you do. Secondly, that's not even the way company sponsered insurance works. They take the total cost of the employee's bills from the previous year add a little padding, then divide by the number of participants. Have someone with a major case of cancer in the company, and every one's bills go up. You want to target people affecting your health insurance co-pay/premium? Go after smokers. You keep setting up the pins. I'll keep knocking them down.

Mediocre? Why though? If this is the best of the epsilons, where does mediocre leave the G6, Malibu, and 9-3? Let's not lose our heads here....

I don't see what all the fuss is about, I think it still looks great... on of GM's current best below Cadillac and certainly the best of the Epsilons.

Actually, it IS that easy. If I have a marrage certificate, then the other person listed on the certificate is my spouse. Nothing else needs to be re-written. With healthcare, marriage couples just get the discount rate from the insurance agency not the employer. If two guys have seperate insurance policies, then get married, it costs the company nothing more then if a heterosexual couple gets married. I didn't know that if gays got married, heteros would somehow have to pay for it..... I'll have to look that up. If I can get a bunch of straight people to sponser the costs of my wedding, that would be awsome..... oh wait.... parents.... right. There are a ton of reasons why gays need the legal recognision of marriage: Visitation rights in the hospital. When my partner was in a coma back in November, I was not allowed in to intensive care to see him until his parents gave permission to the hospital. I am very close to his parents so I knew it would not be a problem. Others aren't so lucky. When one half of a heterosexual married couple dies, the other half inherits <nearly automatically> the assets tax free. I currently own close to a million dollars worth of investment property. I can will all of it to my partner, but NONE of it would be tax free and he'd likely have to sell off a substantial amount just to pay the taxes... thereby generating even MORE taxes. As far as feeling "complete". You're right, all we need is each other. We'll still have a wedding some day and exchange rings, but I would really like to know that he is going to be legally protected if I were to die. I am not close with my parents and he could have a legal battle with them <while also dealing with my death/hospitalization> if my parents choose to fight him. It will take a substantial amount in legal fees to afford him the same protections as you would get by filling out a marrage certificate and paying your $55 fee. There was a time in this country when the majority of the population felt that inter-racial marriage should be illegal and the minority <interacial couples who wanted to get married>, should just shut up about it... isn't their love enough... etc. Yeah... we should go back to those days. Short answer: Because gays getting married doesn't hurt you in any way shape or form. Do you feel harmed because gays can be married in Massachusetts now?

I would argue that "gayest off-roader" would still be the Wrangler.... but that's just personal observations...

In this segment, "quiet" is a desirable trait. The interior of the Lucurne is still nicer then the interior of the Hyundai. The northstar has much more torque. ... and it's a real buick.

In other news, GM, Ford, and Chrysler out produce Mitsubishi.

I was wondering why Wagoner was on 60 minutes, NPR and the local papers all in the same week.

Here is a shirt for the baby.

I thought the commercial was just kinda "eh". I didn't get offended over it and I'm gay. I did think to myself "Some Human Rights Commision types are going to get their panties in a wad about this" Not all gay people a mindless whining minorities. I tell some of the best gay jokes around.

The CTS and STS share a 5-speed. If one gets a 6-speed, likely both will.

If Mercedes Benz put a 7 speed in the 7-series, I'm sure BMW might have a thing or two to say about that. :AH-HA_wink:

Holy CSVs batman! Uplanders, Terazzas and Relays oh my! It's like they hit critical mass here in Western PA.

What does an M3 engine cost again? What does a 3800 cost? Oh... yeah... right. *sips Kool Aide* The M3 engine is the ROXARS! It should be in every car EVAR! Face it, for loafing along on the freeway, efficiently, cleanly, cheaply, quietly, there are few V6 engines that can beat the 3800 in ALL of those aspects.

Two words: Timing Belt

uhm.... he didn't love the Seville, he complained about the FWD and maintainence on it all the time..... just sayin...