Drew Dowdell

Yes, there is more to it than just those features. But those features should be reserved for the premium price classes.

I'm not insinuating that. I think it's a host of things that people get their panties in a bunch about. Bluetooth, Nav, heated seats, dual zone, XM, DOHC, RWD..... remember there is a Zeta Impala coming out soon (we hope) and with how big the Malibu is now there is going to HAVE to be something other than the smallish size difference to justify it. If the Malibu were designed by a committee of C&G members, it would end up being a hydrogen power 7-series with every electronic gizmo known to man, yet base under 20k. and somehow GM would have to make a profit on it.

don't tease :AH-HA_wink:

And what does Toyota not have? Pontiac, Saturn, Saab, and Buick. What you're really pushing for is the elimination of the non "C" brands.

But not in the same class for cheaper than the Malibu. Keep in mind that you're going to pay $24k for a Mazda 3 with Nav, leather, etc.

If Honda were offering NAV in a $24,000 Accord, I'd say no. However, NAV only comes on the most loaded models that reach well into Buick*, Saab, and even Cadillac territory. You said it yourself, only 10% of your inventory had NAV. Not having NAV increases the value of Buick, Saab and Cadillac. If someone gives up a Malibu and goes and buys a $32k Altima, that's their own problem for not visiting Buick, Saab, or even Lincoln. *where Buick should be.

That is Buick, Saturn, and Pontiac's and over all GM's problem, not Chevy's. Fix those other brands and this issue goes away.

Wow... imagine that.

I don't accept that GM made a mistake because I don't accept the idea of homogenization of the brands. I'll buy into your idea as long as you buy into the idea that GM will have to kill Pontiac, Buick, Saturn, and Saab to do it. You basically want a Malibu, Malibu Lux, Malibu SE, and Malibu EU. All the epsilons start within 6k of each other. Just ditch the other brands. You cannot tell me that people only buy the ES330 because it has a L on the hood and they completely ignore the other options.

GM MAKES MORE THAN ONE CAR TO COVER THIS! THE MALIBU DOESN'T HAVE TO BE EVERYTHING TO EVERYBODY! You guys are saying that I'M stuck in old school GM think. It's YOU guys who are stuck in that mindset. You want every epsilon to have Nav, Bluetooth,get the same engines, etc. etc. etc. you want their option sheets too look identical and only the front and rear fascias be different! Congrats people! If you get your way it will be the 1977 B-bodies all over again. Shesh, even the W-bodies had more differentiation than what you guys want.

My first two paragraphs ARE relevant. You want GM to produce a car that it basically won't be able to sell! If Honda, Nissan, and Toyota only move a small number of cars configured this way, how well do you think Chevy is going to do? Honda and Toyota at least have built in lifers who would buy a giant cow turd on wheels as long as it had the proper badge on the front. I care more about GM making a profit than being a volume leader. If you want NAV that bad, you can still visit your Saab dealer and get a car on the same platform with NAV for 30k. It's not like GM doesn't sell something that covers what you want. If you were making this argument about the Aura, Lacross, or even maybe a redesigned G6, I'd support it. GM has no less than 4 other vehicles that *should* have these options for any flavor you like <euro, sport, luxury,american>. Edit: The cheapest Accord with NAV is $27,895 for a 4cylinder/5-speed. Cheapest V6 is $30,895. The cheapest Altima is a V6 with 5-speed for $31,805, BUT you get cloth interior, no sunroof, no heated seats, no XM, no Homelink, no Bluetooth, no duel zone climate control. You can get a Saab 9-3 Turbo with every option box checked and STILL come in cheaper than the Altima.

Oh yea... and how's VW doing profitability these days? Sales of the Passat, Jetta, Phaeton, Tourage, Beetle doing that well these days? Yes, Nissan, Honda, and Toyota all offer their midsized sedan up over the 30k mark. How many of those actually sell? All three admit that the vast bulk of their sales are the cylinder variants. Passat is an extreme example, but it was possible to get that car up over 40k. Should Chevy be aiming for that too? When the Camry, Accord and Altima start selling primarily in the $32k range then the Chevy needs to readjust. I'll say again, if you really want all the doodads, have $32k to spend, and the best thing you can come up with is an Altima, you're either not paying attention or you need to go see Dr. House for an MRI of your skull.

And *that* argument is flawed because that is exactly what got GM into trouble in the first place. J-Body - Cavalier, Sunbird, Fierenza, Skyhawk, Cimmeron A-body - Celebrity,6000,Cutlass Ciera, Skylark G-Body - Monte Carlo, Grand Prix, Cutlass Supreme, Regal B/D-Body - Caprice, Impala, Bonneville, Catalina, Parisianne, Safari, Delta 88, Custom Cruiser, Electra, LeSabre, Roadmaster, Brougham There needs to be differentiation if you want to keep the brands. If you are advocating cutting GM back to just Chevy and Cadillac, then fine, just say it. However With as many brands as GM has, each brand needs to occupy a smaller segment. That's the harsh reality. Either cut brands or cut the segment size each brand covers. GM can offer a car for everybody's wants and needs, but you may have to go to a different dealer to get it.

Which is why I vote that we cut our losses and move on. There is obviously the support from "Viewers like You!" to pay for a new host. A host that I've been using for a few years now and have been very happy with has been Bluehost.com. 10 people contribute $10 and that is 14 months of service with them.

I agree about the bluetooth, however, Chevies aren't supposed to be luxurymobiles. If you want high end doo-dads go to an Oldsmo... uh... Saturn dealer or Buick dealer after Buick fixes themselves. Again, the Chevy is by far the cheapest of the bunch, nearly $4,000 cheaper than the next car up. Once you hit 30k, I'm no longer thinking Chevy... or Nissan or Honda or Toyota.

Sounds like my kinda place!

None?! That's unusual unless there is a valve stuck open somehow. IDK if the 3800 is an interference engine or not... not something that generally comes up with OHV engines.

For the last time.. no! There are still plenty of "head up our asses" reviews out there. GM doesn't have to win every review, the review just has to be fair. You didn't see us getting up in arms when the malibu placed 3rd in one review because even though it didn't win, the review was still fair. It's the unfair ones we're pissed at.... and they are still out there..... like that USAToday review of the Malibu.

What are you talking about? The Monte Carlo was discontinued earlier this year!

There's my new sig

If it's all highway miles, the battery pack doesn't get used very often at all in a Civic because the gasoline engine still does most of the work. It's when your accelerating that the car dips into battery reserve. I do like the Civic hybrid a lot though. I drive one regularly via Flexcar. The hybrid aspect really helps the low end torque on what is otherwise a torqueless car. 600,000 miles is still impressive regardless of hybrid or not.

Is this like the vehicle stability control that doesn't actually function if the Tundra is in 4wd?

How many people would be willing to donate $10 towards service from a new/better host?

No but I do feel a seizure coming on....