The O.C.

Pictures? Pictures? Pictures? :AH-HA_wink:

(all this talking about input and output shafts is getting me ALL hot and bothered......)

It does, however, still cost $2,000 less than the '07 Sport I just picked up....and it's got alot more horsepower..... (I still like my car better though......)

Hmmmm.....well, we might have our share of challenges......but concerning the "escalation of prices....." Los Angeles is a Pacific Rim metropolis......an economic powerhouse......the home of our entertainment and television industry......places like Orange County even are enjoying a booming economy.....a diversified economy at that.....(it wasn't always) and southern California is even one of the largest manufacturing bases in our country. Tourism.....people from all over the world travel to southern California to vacation. It's a destination. It's got some of the best weather in the country. It's geographically beautiful (palm trees, mountains, ocean, beaches, tropical landscaping.) You can snow ski and lay out on the beach on the same day in the winter. California is the 7th largest economy in the WORLD. End result.....it's not perfect....and not the best place in the country to live for everyone....but in the end, it remains a HUGELY desirable place for a great many people to live and call home......either because they love California, or they have a prosperous job that has brought them here. THAT'S why you see prices so out of sight in this state. It doesn't really defy logic....it actually seems QUITE logical.

Good idea! Thanks!

whatEVER.....

....depends on how badly Toyota wanted to get one out for the public to see....if that's all they had...?

Benz has to be pissed....! Although I'm sure they will have no problem meeting production now that I think about it.... (California being their #1 volume market....with the top 2 or 3 volume Benz stores located in Southern California.....)

whatEVER...... Seriously though......I'm chalking it up to the engine still being VERY green..... I'm driving very conservatively and 70% freeway driving...... I averaged low-20's in the Mazda6 manual that I had....and that WAS driving it like I stole it (it was a company car).....and I averaged low-20's with both my 3-series (also with manuals.) Thing is....I don't remember either of them exhibiting such a drastic difference in mpg from a "green" engine to being "broken in."

Guys....guys....guys...... I'm TELLING you that interior looks like it has pre-production prototype trim inside of it. Those HVAC knobs could just be some prototype parts they stuck on and not even representative of production. That plastic on the dash has the same weathered, yet shiny look that I used to see all over pre-production GM interiors on new vehicles. (Why they would SHOW a truck with pre-production trim I don't understand....but that's another question.) I've seen all this type of stuff before at GM design staff.....none of us really can comment on the interior of this vehicle until we see production stuff.

That's funny....... However, most nav systems I'm familiar with download streets/etc. from a current DVD one time.....and the manufacturer sends you a new DVD when updated information is available. The nav system isn't constantly running a DVD.....that's why it's "satellite-based" navigation.

Ahhhh....BUT.... BMWs are "hard-packaged" too...... You have usually two or three models (525, 530, 550) and multiple "packages" such as the "Premium", "Sport", "Cold-Weather" packages. Sure you'll always have some stand-alone packages.....but the best you can do to combine popular options in one package, seriously reduces your build combinations.

Nicely put, C. Honda does it best. Every vehicle they build is "hard packaged" with no options. You have DX, LX, EX, EX Nav, etc. The only "options" are dealer-installed accessories. I can't pretend to understand all the cost and engineering reasons behind it....all I can tell you, is when I was in Buick product planning, reducing build combos was one of our TOP priorities.....and they told us it was ultimately because of cost to the company. Plus....the VAST majority of vehicles ordered are ordered by dealers or manufacturers' district managers. Actual customer orders are SO small, it's almost insignificant.

OK....I don't mean to ....but I'm going to anyways..... SECOND tank........15mpg. First was 17.5, second was 15.0...... Now....I LOVE this f cking car.....I really do. But the gas mileage SUCKS! I should have gotten a v-Series...... PLEASE realize that I drive the car very conservatively.....short shifting....with at LEAST 50% of my driving being freeway with little stop-and-go. i'm getting barely 260-270 miles on a tank. My C6 is consistently getting better mileage than my V6 CTS. I'm HOPING it's due to the engine still being so green (600+ miles on it.)

Well like I said....I've never driven a QX so I can't judge. I KNOW I'm no fan of the Infiniti's interior though..... I'd have to say that the Audi is a PERFECT fit in this competitive segment. You can't always compare vehicles on total size......people are looking to spend $50-$60K on a "full" size SUV....inevitably the Audi WILL be compared to vehicles such as Escalade (and Navigator, GL-Class, etc.) And about comparing CTS to 3-Series......well, I'm one example....when it came down to it (and I crossed the 5 off my list) my last two cars that I was cross-shopping WAS CTS and 3-Series. SIMILAR price, SIMILAR size..... CTS is a bit bigger......and a bit cheaper......but definitely close enough to be a viable 3-Series competitior.

:AH-HA_wink: Okay....it's been a tough day. BUT my point is.....I'm not "condemning" Cobalt because of that one experience.....but regardless...it was an extremely disappointing experience. I've had plenty of GM cars as rentals that seemed like they were holding up quite well. This particular Cobalt wasn't.....

....and cars like the Range Rover even have a chick with a british accent. Not giving the street names is inexcusable. This is another cheap-ass move by GM to try to short-change consumers instead of simply (isn't Lutz the one that said it recently...) GIVING THEM WHAT THEY WANT. Hell....even the new Mazda3 and Civic offer satellite navigation. Gee.....it hasn't even made it on Lucerne yet.....has it....? Has it? It was supposed to be a "late arrival." BY THE WAY....since I'm in a bitching mode.....when I ordered my CTS with the 18-inch wheel "Sport" package.....navigation is UNAVAILABLE. You CAN order it on CTSs with the 17-inch wheel sport package....but NOT the 18-inch wheel sport package. So YOU guys out there can hopefully tell me the logic in THAT. There's no dash changes or wiring changes or anything on the 18-inch sport package that would keep Cadillac from offering navigation with it....!

????????????????????? This thing makes the new GM trucks look positively puny....... I guess to each his own.......

Looking again at the title of this thread....."C&D BS".... Why don't you guys that are so overly GM-supportive bitch at GM THEMSELVES for putting out a new product with such a major design fault as a cumbersome-to-remove 3rd-row package with a lack of roominess? Why is C&D "dishing out BS" because they hold Caddy's feet to the fire on this? Listen....I like the new Escalade. But instead of trashing C&D, I'd rather raise holy hell at GM for not equipping their most important new vehicles (GMT-900) with class-leading features that are a must-have in this segment. Why all the (truly) mis-directed anger? Why "protect" GM when they truly missed this market in this area? Why NOT congratulate (the losing....) Navigator for it's IRS and roomy 2nd- and 3rd rows? Why NOT congratulate (the winning....) Mercedes for offering as much or more vehicle in a (slightly) smaller and more efficient package? Why do you guys ALWAYS seem to give GM a break on crap like this? It's what I truly don't understand..... .....but.....I digress........ On to the next topic......

don't f cking bitch at me because the biggest exposure I had to Cobalt was a rental car....! Everyone on here is SO quick to pick on people that offer comments on a certain vehicle without driving one....or even sitting in one.... So shoot me if my best exposure happens to be that rental. If a Cobalt topic comes up, that's the best experience I've had to relate. MOST people out there that may be in the market for a car might ALSO have their ONLY experience with a GM car being a rental.....(lord knows they put enough of them in service.) So if I can get a $h!ty one.....so can Mr. Joe Blow that has owned nothing but Hondas all his life.

I have yet to see an Azera rental. I'm sure they fleet some of them.....but I don't see Azera rentals like I see Sonata rentals....

This may just be an educated guess......but if we were to see trade-in and cross-shop data, I bet the number of people that cross-shop Avalon and Lucerne are in the single-digit-percentages.....IF that... I'm more likely to lay my money on Avalon versus ES, Maxima, and Azera. Anyone? Evok? Anyone have access to cross-shop data? I KNOW we used to have it at GM when I worked there.....we used it for comparison purposes all the time.....

Canada IS different. That's not the way it is in the U.S. GM handles sales to rental agencies internally......unless a local dealer has a deal worked out with a local, small rental agency. And even then, sometimes, GM will decide to work with that small local agency internally instead of approving any fleet incentives for the dealer to use with said agency.

In all likelihood the 4.0L would not meet ever-changing emissions standards. It's is an ANCIENT engine you know....... Plus, it's long inline-6 architecture would be too tough to fit within other platforms....and probably would be cost-prohibitive to keep it in production JUST for Wrangler. It wouldn't have the efficiency, NVH levels, or refinement to fit something like a sedan, coupe, or minivan.