The O.C.

This is a point that, in my mind, is missed way too often in the industry. There needs to be a way-stronger look at actual retail registrations in this country. That alone shows the true consumer demand for a product. And while your average of 1-in-4 GM products not being sold to individuals is pretty spot-on....the sad part is that there are still WAY too many GM products that fleet out a WAY higher percentage....... And before anyone brings it up, I think the last time I saw fleet/rental percentages......Camry/Corolla were around 15% fleet/rental (someone correct me if I'm wrong and they have actual figures)......high for Toyota....low compared to a domestic product. I remember WAY too many times at Buick.....when having a tough month, our fleet department would, at the last minute, find a hole with one of the rental agencies where they could dump a large number of cars.....simply to be able to show a stronger "sales" number at the end of the month. How f*cked of a business model is that?

What I meant was his comment that he likes cars in general and has no real allegiance to any country's industry over another...... I'm the same way. While I have a certain amount of passion for GM because of my history, I an interested and intriqued by cars not only in other countries around the world, but from ALL the manufacturers we have here in the U.S. I don't "hate" Toyota for their successes......I don't "hate" the Koreans because they used to peddle crap......I don't "hate" the Germans because they are over-priced and the source of so much car-snobbery in this country....... Not saying you fit any or all of the above......but there are a ton of people on this site that have passions very focused on GM (or the domestics) and GM alone. Anything else is (generally speaking) not worth the time.......

We did get the turbo All-trac for a very short time......I think that unit produced, what, 200hp for it's time?

Oh my bud....you really don't know me. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, without being shy about it, it's my very experience in SO many markets around this country that many times leads me to the very comments I make on here......

'Bloke's point was......he's a car enthusiast (as am I and others on here.) Your point above simply shows that you are really not a car enthusiast......but really just a GM enthusiast (or domestic-car enthusiast).....and that's fine.....but there is a significant difference.....

Your spin is losing it's punch. Giving me an objective opinion that a Lucerne "simply looks better" doesn't answer how the Avalon is necessarily perceived as more "boring." I'm sure there's plenty of people out there that think the Avalon is better looking than the Lucerne too...... As far as the performace, Avalon V6 is quicker, not "as quick" as a Northstar Lucerne......so if "performance" is your definition of "boring" I'd say that the Buick is the "boring" one....IF your definition is based around "performance." I'm simply trying to make the point that calling something "boring" or an "appliance" is a vague generalization at best......and totally objective.....and can be spun to fit whatever manufacturer loyalties one may have......

Is this an actual ad? This is the kind of $h! we don't need from General Motors....I am SO disgusted with this......Someone said it was "juvenile".....I say that's being nice..... BMW poseurs, fans, and enthusiasts are laughing right now at Pontiac, GM, and the G8....... How can GM ever be taken seriously when they produce this kind of garbage? I agree with whomever else on here said they should have done a classy ad showing both cars in performance driving around mountain roads, and down long stretches of road so that the G8 could show off it's performance potential compared to the BMW......and could also show the car in motion....maybe show it screaming around the N'-Ring or something.....

OK.....not to defend Toyota......but let's look at a couple of things...... How is a (admittedly new in '09) Corolla any more "boring" than a Cobalt LS/LT sedan? How is a Camry any more "boring" than an Impala? Even a V6 Camry will run close to a V8 Impala SS. Or....how is a Malibu (as much as I like it more than the Camry) that much less boring than a Camry overall? How is a Lucerne any more "exciting" than an Avalon....? A V6 Avalon will dust a V8 Lucerne....if your definition of "not boring" is performance....? All I'm saying.....is that yes....Toyotas are "boring".....but GM has it's fair share of boring appliances as well.....let's just call a spade a spade.....I'd most likely take most any GM product (Cobalt, Malibu, Lucerne, etc.) over a comparative Toyota....but not because I find the GM product necessarily that much more "exciting...."

I'm the same way. I voted that I have no beef with Toyota either. I sincerely respect the amazing sales performance and reputation they've been able to develop here in the U.S.......(and puleeeez no responses about the Japanese manipulation of the yen, etc, etc.) It's not my cup of tea......and I'd most likely never buy a Toyota.......but I see nothing fundamentally wrong with them or their products other than the fact that I find them relatively boring and appliance-like.

Well, I hardly ever see any A-bodies around unless they are in the "ghetto" and in rusted-out shape. I never, NEVER see any old A-body (or similar generation GM products) on the road in any sort of decent condition.

BTW.....I hope you guys that live in other parts of the country and have a "basement" as part of your house don't take it for granted.....! We don't have basements here....and the storage opportunities are missed ten-fold.....

I've got C&D, MT, Automobile, and R&T back to almost 1970.....with only various issues missing in between. (BUT, I have all of Automobile's mags, and of the other three, from say the late-80's on, I have all of them too.....complete years.) I'd keep them.......you could get a small amount of money for them....but not anything substantial that would make them worth anything. I go to AutoBooks in Burbank every few months because they get in old issues every so often.....and I scour through them to find back issues that I'm missing from the 70's or early 80's......AutoBooks only charges $1 per back issue.....so they can't be offering people much to take them in. As far as Jean......I met her back in 1989 when she came and spoke at GMI. That was 18 years ago.....she was much skinnier, and much more youthful looking back then (of course....18 years ago) so maybe DED was tapping that.......LOL

I tend to categorize cars like the Malibu, Accord, Camry, CTS, even G8 as midsize products........versus cars such as the Lucerne, DTS, Avalon that appear to me as full-size cars. I'd most likely put the Taurus/Sable in the full-size category as well..... That's just my informal opinion...... I won't harp on the G8's weight anymore.....it's a great product in any event. The only time recently it's really pissed me off was the CTS.......if that car weighed 200-300 lbs less, the 300hp DI V6 would be way more sparkling in that car. As it is, a base 328i and a base C300, both with about only 230hp will run with the over-300hp CTS...... I shudder to think that an even heavier CTS-v might not run all that much faster than a 300hp 3-series or a 330hp G37.......(Caddy is quoting a mid-4sec 0-60 for the new v-Series......)

Lordy.... How ironic that she's doing a video-ad on MT's website.....LOL..... She can write....but damn she's not nearly as good speaking in front of a camera........

Wrong-o......Global is fully-prepared to bring Mahindra into the country. The question is when the Mahindras will be ready. I've got a friend that is on the management team at Global so I get pretty frequent updates on how things are going. In fact, my friend has been actively involved in signing up dealers. Global is in no way another "Chamco." BUT, even my friend acknowledges that Mahindra will most likely only really thrive once Tata buys the U.S. distributor outright......

LOL....that was the exact same argument many used against the Koreans when they first came here. Look where they are now.......hmmmm.......

C'mon Reg......there's no statistical or factual evidence I've ever seen to demonstrate that the imports, for example a Camry or Accord, which is a couple-hundred pounds lighter than a comparably-equipped Malibu or AURA is in any way more "fragile", less "stout", or more "flexible" than the heavier GM products. G8 and CTS both are more midsize in my mind......but both weigh around 4,000lbs.......heavy for their respective classes......as is Malibu/AURA, and as you mentioned, VUE. Lamdas are as well......all of them at or slightly over 5,000lbs. I'm not debating the fact that these GM products drive with a feeling of solidity and quality, but others feel just as solid but don't suffer the setbacks in performance and fuel economy that GM is having to compensate for because of their heavier products......

Where's the friggin' stick-shift? All I've heard about is that POS CVT.....

In the United States, if you are given a company car, you are taxed on that car as "income." However, every single company I've ever worked for that provides a company car "grosses up" your income to compensate. At the end of the day, you pay $0 in taxes for the use of a company car. (Same thing happens if they give you a "car allowance.") Therefore, yeah.....the Britons are taxed far harder......but company cars are far more prevelant over there as well.

We'll see....the new midsizer looks good.... But....history will repeat itself unless Suzuki does something innovative with it to get consumers into a Suzuki showroom to look at a midsize sedan. It better have something other than simply styling......as we all know, and this is a huge understatement, the midsize market is perhaps THE most competitive........

Your arguments regarding the automotive market here versus Japan and Europe is SPOT-on......most people in this country simply don't understand the nuances surrounding automotive markets around the world...... (such as your mentioning of the European company car statistics......something we simply don't encounter here in the same vein.) I'm also surprised you didn't bring up the hideous taxation rates that Europe (I'm more familiar with Britain's taxation policy) imposes on "contract hire" (company) cars.......those taxation rates flucutate wildly.....not only from car model to car model (Mondeo to Focus to Fiesta) but even something as simple as drivetrain choice for a single model of car. These are prime examples of factors that greatly influence purchase (or company car) decisions in Europe.....factors we simply don't have to deal with over here.

I have to admit.....

I would agree with the vast majority of your post.....I just don't think it's a viable long-term strategy.....because I don't see them doing innovative things like a city-car, or sub-SX4 vehicle.....OR something unique and fun like the tiny Cappucino... I haven't seen year-to-year numbers, but I can tell you that I still keep in contact with many local Suzuki dealers that I knew well, and the "word on the street" is that the XL7 is doing very poorly.....alot resulting from fit-and-finish issues, cheap-looking and poor quality interior, and price (all compared to the previous-gen XL-7 which, ironically, had a much higher-quality interior in it's last form, and was relatively bullet-proof, and was priced and incentivized better.) Again.....just word on the street from what I hear from dealers and people I still know at ASMC.

I had an SVT Focus for about a year......one of the best-driving cars I've ever had. But remember it only had 170hp (similar to today's Cobalt Sport) and I think most car rags had it going 0-60 in 7.5secs or so. But I can tell you, the car was extremely sweet-revving, had a great clutch and shifter, and was a handling demon with it's chassis/suspension/tire setup......but it wasn't a rocket....although pretty competitive in the day (no Neon SRTs, SC Cobalts, or MazdaSpeed3s back then.) I did waste a V6 Contour SVT one time on the I-10.......

Loaded Lucerne CXS..... I was at my local car wash, and since I live in yuppie-land, the usual cars being attended to are your usual BMWs, Benzs, Land Rovers, Lexus', SUVs and pickups of all sorts.....so I was excited to see a new Lucerne CXS being cleaned up and wiped down. It was loaded, pearl white, beige interior, chromes, etc..... Being this is Orange County, CA., I was excited to see one of GM's latest entries, NOT a rental, being attended to amongst all the highline imports. And it actually looked good....like it fit in...! I started scanning the crowd of people waiting for their cars to see if I could guess which business man, or young professional would claim the Buick once it was done. Then.....my head just dropped. This guy that looked like he was 80 years-old or more walked up, got in it (slowly and deliberately) and drove off. On the back, to make matters worse, was a "handicap" license plate.....