The O.C.

EVERYTHING I've read here locally shows there is no "bubble." If there's any activity, it will be a softening of the market, but no major dipping of the market. Of course you have to remember that in L.A. and Orange counties, there is less and less area to build. The L.A. area is surrounded by mountain ranges on three sides and the ocean on the fourth. Unless you go past those mountain ranges into the desert or the Inland Empire, there are fewer and fewer places to build new housing. That's something not really found in too many other areas. Okay I admit I don't have the numbers exact, but it's something like this......speaking of O.C., forecasts call for the need of something like 50K new homes in the next 5 years.....and that something like 10K are planned or able to be built. SIMPLE supply and demand. More specifically, if you want to be within 30 minutes of the coast (and many people do....as shown by the relative home prices are you move towards the ocean) then you'll have to pay the money because there is NO (relatively-speaking) new construction to help offset demand for existing housing. If you've lived here for a while, you'll know that it really IS a unique real estate market.....and doesn't live or react to housing trends like any other area of the U.S.....partly because of the geography and population here.... My 2-bedroom townhouse went up in value $200K over three years....and that's just a condo....from $300K to $500K when I sold it. NOW...if I had left for a year or two and moved back, I would have found "my" house had appreciated too much for me to afford to buy again....

According to the trip computer, the car I was driving was averaging 23-24mpg.....

Croc....and you say I brag about our cars..... :lol: (shayes287, I'm just kidding....it's a long story between Croc and I.....)

I'm talking about real estate prices...... Let's say they are in Nashville for two years....in two years' time, the house they sold in L.A. is going to have appreciated at a MUCH higher rate than any house they would be buying in Nashville. SO....the house they sold for, let's say $750K, is now worth $1M or more two or three years later. While the $750K mansion they buy in Tennessee is worth "only" $825K two years later....????? So the level of house they had before in L.A. is now effectively out of their price range. As you know Croc, that kind of appreciation out here is not unheard of....it's more than common.

I don't know....but C&D just got the same car I drove to 60mph in 5.9 seconds (!) I've read GM's estimates at 7.5secs for the NorthStar Lucerne. I'd bet that someone like C&D would get it to 60 in less than 7.0.....maybe close to the 6.9secs 0-60 that they got with the (similarly-sized) Bonneville GXP. More importantly, the Passat FELT as fast as a 5.9sec 0-60......

Coming from a former GM District Sales Manager, we did the SAME thing to GM dealers ALL THE TIME..... This is nothing new.....sad to say

Some would say the executives really had no choice....they are too high up, etc., NOT to move. What about the mid-managers that have to face the fact that IF they leave for Nashville, they would NEVER be able to afford to move back if they wanted to... Hell, I'm not even sure the executives would be able to afford to move back after a few years....and have the same lifestyle in California that they had BEFORE they made the move to Nashville....

:P Croc, I luv ya man! (and not in a "gay" way....hehehehe) I think your post was right spot on....EVERY paragraph....! Thanks for sticking up for us in the gay-marriage thing..... :rolleyes: It's nice to hear a heterosexual that has a logical viewpoint on the whole issue. People, of all races, genders, and beliefs, need to realize that the idea of marriage is a personal belief and you simply cannot force YOUR personal beliefs onto other people...gay OR straight. It's interesting how Bush has been trying to make an amendment to the constitution to ban gay marriage in hopes of "protecting the sanctity of marriage" yet he was recently MORE than willing and happy to host Prince Charles and Camille, who had a widely-publicized affair (for how MANY years?) while he was married to Lady Di.... Back to L.A. versus Nashville.....I too have found that in all my travels, outside of maybe NYC, southern California (even mostly-republican O.C.) offers some of the most tolerant sensabilities of anywhere I've been in this country. I was born in Oklahoma and raised in Texas, so I know how bad it can get. For the MOST part...it doesn't matter where you came from, what color your skin is, or what sexual orientation you have. For anyone of a "minority" (for lack of a better word) that is a MAJOR consideration in deciding to make such a move from California to the South.

You probably aren't Ven....but many people ARE biased in their opinions..... BTW....I DO like the Impala....and I like the interior.....alot.....but I still think it could stand a bit of work in that one area compared to many competitors.... Nissan Murano was another example....I had a rental recently, and although I really didn't like the SUV, it DID have quite a bit of hard plastic inside....but I'll be damned if you could easily tell without touching it. It matched almost perfectly with the soft stuff. Nissan usually isn't this good with interior plastics (Titan, Armada, Xterra, Frontier, Pathfinder) but some of their products are done very well (Murano, <new> Altima, Maxima.)

Who knows what form the next generation Tacoma is going to take? I don't think Ridgeline's architecture is the reason for it's sales (or lack thereof.) I think it's UGLY.....that's why it doesn't sell. Like EVOK said, everyone poopoo'd unibody SUVs when they first came out....now look where they're at.... I wouldn't sign the death knell just yet for the idea of a unibody pickup like Ridgeline..

.....and to change gears.......let's put this in a "domestic" perspective....what if GM decided to uproot and leave Detroit and the midwest? Set up shop in the south....where all the transplants are....start anew....get out of the Michigan mindset.... Move white collar operations....sales, marketing, and service...? I know it's about as likely to happen as hell freezing over....but it's an intriguing thing to think about....long term.... If Nissan's deciding it's good for them.....maybe it's the kind of fresh thinking that the General needs to consider.

empowah, you're right.....didn't mean to generalize.......like in the South Bay, here in south O.C. there's a bunch of award-winning public schools.....but I know that in many places in the southland public schools aren't as fortunate....

The Grand Vitara is a totally new Japanese platform that shares nothing with Equinox/Torrent. Also, it's RWD-based and the V6 is the same 2.7L DOHC V6 currently used in the XL-7.

Man....I don't wanna argue....but I'm totally AMAZED that some people still give credit to GM when credit isn't due..... I'm referring to the LaCrosse comparison. I just spent three days in that Passat and let me tell you I've been in Cadillacs that don't have leather as buttery soft as what was in the Passat...the LaCrosse leather doesn't come CLOSE. As far as the LaCrosse's tiny buttons, the new Passat had a wonderfully intuitive center stack with simple to use HVAC controls and one of the easiest combo navigation/radio systems I've ever used.... And the "hidden" side window shades in the tops of the rears doors was simply artful. Back to Impala....I don't even KNOW how you can defend the (hard) plastics inside that car. Sure the interior is much better than in the past, but you can hardly call the hard plastics non-glossy and evenly-grained???? :o I'm not sayin' they suck, but GM fan or not, I can easily admit that the LaCrosse and Impala do not stand up to solid comparison with the new Passat. Maybe that's where VW's extra cost makes sense then....

.....and you can thank a good portion of those lousy schools on the illegal immigrant situation that is draining our financial resources in this state......all those illegal immigrant kids do nothing to help reduce student-to-teacher ratios either... As a result, most middle-class families put their kids through private schools here, however.....so the kids are mostly getting a good education, it's just not through the public school system unfortunately....

Two things on the Passat's hard plastic.... 1) People (like me) rip on the Impala's lower dash hard plastic because the graining and finish (shiny) doesn't match very well with the nice soft touch stuff on the dash and door panels. The reason Passat gets away with it, is they do a masterful job of matching the graining on the soft dash and door panels with the hard stuff below....and the hard stuff is the same matte finish as the dash top. It's hard, YES....but simply way higher quality hard plastic than what GM tends to do. You really do have to touch it to tell IF it's hard or soft... 2) I sat in another 3.6L Passat at a VW dealership, and in THAT car, the lower "hard" plastic on the dash was softer. Not squishy like the dash top and door panel tops, but it was like hard plastic that had some "give" when you pushed your finger into it....does that make any sense? I'm wondering if VW made a running change to the new material to improve that part of the interior?

Nah.....Envoy COULD be a Cadillac (baby Escalade) but Sierra, Savannah, and Sonoma would more than easily be rolled into the corresponding Chevrolet versions...

Guess what? The new Passat has a floor-hinged throttle pedal!!!!!!!! Yippee!

You could have a good point with that..... They FIGURED that many people would not move......and you are right, they can hire new workers and pay them alot less..... Do you think that's a good enough reason for them to do it, however? I'm totally confused.... Even more confused about reading Peter's comments about the operations cost issue...

Read Peter's comments about this issue in this week's AutoExtremist. The cost of operations is a non-issue. Everything in California had been paid for a LONG time ago...and the longer they keep their brick-and-mortar, it will only keep going up in value. He explains quite clearly why the costs of operation in Nashville will not be as beneficial long-term.....even considering the tax advantages the state and city are giving them.

Believe it or not, per capita, there's more asian people in the San Francisco Bay Area....AND there's a big port there (Oakland.) I think they settled on Southern California because, yes, it's closer to Asia. Secondly, there is the largest port complex in the country here (the combined L.A./Long Beach port.) Third, there's a (very) large population of educated white-collar workers. Fourth, Los Angeles has been labled a "Pacific Rim" city because of all the ties we have to those nations economically.

I FULLY understand your argument. Actually, I've always liked the GMC grille treatments and such better than the Chevy's.... BUT....for those of us that subscribe to the theory that GM still has "too many models" and "too many divisions" then for me, the logic dictates that GMC is redundant. I feel that you need Chevy trucks and then Cadillac trucks. Maybe you can badge an upscale Chevy as a GMC...I don't know...all I know is that product-wise, they are too close to make much sense as separate division all sparring for their fair share of the General's resources. Even a LaCrosse and Impala have completely unique sheetmetal, interiors, and powertrains. If it's marketing, not product that has primarily differentiated GMC and Chevy (assuming because product differences are very minor) then marketing (over time I'm sure) will bring people back to Chevy or Cadillac in the absense of GMC. I still feel that it's not necessarily the best long-term decision to hang on to it because "we've always had GMC." I think, long-term, any profits lost in the short-term will be more than made up in the long-term because of a sleaker, trimmer, General Motors.

:unsure: Croc...sorry....not trying to be overly sensative, but I didn't have things handed to me...we worked hard for what we have and I struggled for MANY years living here but in the end, it's payed off nicely for us. That's all. Dude....I love this company.....and you are right. I am VERY critical of GM. I wouldn't call it "exaggerated bashing" of GM, but I would call it harsh criticism and I admit that. I used to be "blindly loyal" to GM and I don't like that about myself. I don't WANT to make excuses for GM. That's why I'm vocal about the crappy interior materials on a Solstice, or the aged W-body chassis on the LaCrosse, or the cartoonish design of certain past Pontiacs. If you remember, I've given more than enough props to GM when IMHO they HAVE done things right. And no one else is happier than I am to see them come out with the C6, or the new Tahoe/Escalade, or even the Lucerne.....for example. I wasn't "bragging" about the C6....merely pointing out a few times that if I didn't have a certain confidence in GM, I wouldn't have spent the money on buying a Corvette. I see it as a big investment financially in the General....a big vote of confidence on my part. About the my house and what it cost....also not "bragging" here....just trying to make a point that a "normal" non-celebrity and non-millionaire can make it here and live comfortably here. But it IS tough to do, and it was tough for us for many years and I recognize that not everyone will want to go through that to live here. I hope that clears up some of it. AND for the record, while I don't hide my affection for the X5, I have shared much of my criticism for the shoddy quality of the S500. Now....back to Nissan and Nashville....... B)

Croc....what's with the attitude? First of all, I've never "bragged" about my cars. I'm sorry if I have nice cars. Last time I heard, this was an automotive enthusiast website (GM fans) and many of us own non-GM cars....in addition to our GM cars. If it comes up in a post what kind of car I have, then so-be-it. If you are jealous of that, or you think I'm "bragging" about them, then that's your problem and not mine. I've never "name-dropped" any financial status.....because I'm not rich.....we both have good jobs, two car payments, and a mortagage...just like many other couples out there. And you know what? We DIDN'T come from well-off families. I don't know WHAT your problem is, but you need to hold your personal judgements to yourself.....I don't wanna read 'em on here Croc. Why don't you get to KNOW me first......you know we both have email addresses....? Then if you STILL think I'm like that, you can post on here about me to your heart's content...... (Sorry for off-topic)

First of all, L/M's "California experiement" failed because Ford never embraced the ideal, even though they moved them out here. Ask ANY L/M or Ford employee you know and you'll see that Dearborn never gave them the level of support or the empowerment to take action and do the things that the new California employees wanted to do. Dearborn still pulled the strings....and didn't listen to the people they moved out here. Secondly, the asian companies didn't move to L.A because they could employ more asians....that's ludicrous. I worked for two asian companies and there were a majority of white, black, and hispanic people that worked there. Sure there are asians that work there....but asians in L.A. do alot more than just work for asian car companies....