2QuickZ's

I see you have bought into VW's prediction. I highly doubt they will achieve that goal without a significant market share grab in the U.S. and that just isn't going to happen with the premium pricing model they are using now. As for the gas mileage figures, the reason you don't see that here is three fold: 1) Americans aren't willing to pay premium prices for a small car unless its something trendy like the Mini 2) Americans aren't willing to put up with 10+ second 0-60 times. 3) Americans will not be into A & B segment cars (and to some degree C segment) with gas under $3/gallon, maybe even under $4/gallon. That is why CAFE sucks. It doesn't create demand for that type of car but simply artificially inflates supply. If the government wants to push fuel efficient cars, do it with a gas tax, not a CAFE mandate. Of course, a gas tax would be extremely unpopular so it's easier to just do it through CAFE. Its so much easier to make the car companies the scapegoats as opposed to the American car buying public.

And the VUE will be dead!

I saw an MKT on the road on Thursday along with a '10 MKZ and I will say that my opinion has softened a little. It's not fugly in person, just ugly. I'm not digging the MKZ too much either. I also saw a '10 LaCrosse on the road Thursday. It was silver. It looked pretty good though it was going the other direction so I didn't get a good look at it.

So I take it this means they are going to stick to producing overweight FWD cars instead?!?

I like the MKS but this thing is just plain fugly.

Even though I own two Saturns and am going to take a huge hit on both of them when it comes time to sell, this is probably the right thing to do. Anybody want to buy a used Aura? Now I need to decide if I should dump it immediately before their value plummets even further than they have already or just hold onto it. All the new cars I want aren't coming out until 2010. About the only 2009 model year car I would want would be the Cobalt SS sedan or maybe a 1LT or 2 LT Malibu.

That is a beautiful car! I love the wheels. Good job, Chrysler! Now as others have said, build the damn thing!!!!!!!!!!!

I really liked the '05 Legacy. Then they kind of uglified it with the little MCE they did. I love Subaru vehicles but really dislike the styling of almost everything they make. I bought an '05 Saab 9-2X Aero so I could have the WRX without the WRX styling! :rotflmao: EDIT: I almost forgot...... that thing is fugly!

I think that is a bit of an illusion based on what you can see in the pictures.

Fit and finish and materials used are, in fact, a big step up!

The sales volume of the Crapola never ceases to amaze me! How the hell do they manage to sell 350k of those things per year? I would rather buy almost any other car in it's class than buy a Crapola. I guess people love their soul-less, style-less appliances.

Actually, Cerberus came in so late they likely had minimal impact on the Ram. I think Daimler mostly stayed out of the Ram development. I can tell you Cerberus and the new management delayed upcoming programs to "fix" what Daimler left them with. They seem to have the right idea on how to improve the product and have been willing to spend the money to do so. Now the question is will they last long enough to see those improved products hit the market?

GM never learns their lessons. A couple of years ago they decided to drop the sticker prices of their vehicles and correspondingly lower the rebates (at least in theory) so their residual values would look better since they are determined from sticker price as opposed to transaction price. Apparently they undid all of that during the 2008 and into the 2009 model year. I know that the 2008 VUE had AT LEAST 3 price increases during the model year that raised the base price a total of around $700 IIRC. My '08 VUE XR with premium and convenience packages and chrome skid plates and cargo cover stickered at $26,750. I was at the dealership a few weeks ago and they were bragging about the fact you could get the '09 XR with the 4 cyl. I checked out the sticker and about had a heart attack! I don't remember exactly what it was but I believe it was over $27k and its only the 4 speed auto! Even though they are already on dealer lots you cannot price out the XR 4 cyl. online because nobody has the pricing information. It's not on Saturn's website or Edmunds. Base on an XR FWD is now $27,130 and equipped roughly the same as my '08 would come out to $29,130. That's a $2380 increase in one model year!

What the hell happened to Sonata sales this month? The drop off for the year wasn't so bad but in December it was huge!! Cut back on fleeting maybe?

It's too bad that they may not survive long enough to see their new products hit the market. From the few I've seen, they were going to be vast improvements over their current products. Also, the new Ram is a really nice looking truck, inside and out. Appearance wise, I think I like the new Ram better than any other truck on the market, especially in the high end trim levels. I'm not a truck guy so I haven't driven any to compare. It's probably been 2 years since I've driven any full size trucks.

You're right. I forgot about that. I'm not interested enough to track down a Mitsubishi dealer and go check one out. Oh well.

Thanks to the Evo. If not for it and the little bit of good will it brought to the Lancer name plate, I think Mitsu would be out of the U.S. market. I can't really comment on the Galant as I've never driven one or been in one but my guess is fleet sales are up? I may have to check one out at the NAIAS just to satisfy my curiosity.

Wow, Volvo's numbers are dismal. That's too bad. I really like the Swedish brands. I think their cars are not too bad but just aren't priced correctly. $40k for a loaded Volvo S60 T5 or Saab 9-5 Aero? Both are a solid $8k overpriced if not more considering the quality of the competition. It's not much better with the S40 or 9-3.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, the interior was refreshed for MY08.

I did my part. I voted against every incumbent, even the ones I liked. Republican or Democrat - it didn't matter. Our government is stuck in neutral. It needs a good swift kick in the ass to get moving again!

Well said. I think it would help us all to have a country full of independent thinkers. Better yet, it's time to vote out ALL of the long term senators, regardless of party affiliation. Term limits would be great.

While I would hate to see GM lose any of those divisions, the harsh reality is that some need to go. I own two Saturns and my two previous cars were Saabs but if they killed both divisions, I would understand. It would obviously kill the resale value of the two Saturns I currently own but so would a GM bankruptcy. I also would have no problem seeing Pontiac go. GM MUST get smaller to survive. They do no have the market share to justify all the brands they have now. I know a lot of you hate to hear it and it pains me deeply to say it, but Pontiac is the brand it makes the most sense to shut down. They have been starved of competitive product, their reputation is shot, and there are almost no stand alone dealerships anymore so it would be relatively cheap to shut it down. If GM decided to keep Saturn, it could then be folded in with Buick and GMC to broaden the dealership base. Personally, I think GMC should go away as well. Buick, thanks to their popularity in China are being set up as a world brand. Much of the next LaCrosse was designed in China. If it were up to me, I would kill/sell brands in the following order: 1) Hummer 2) Saab 3) Pontiac 4) Saturn I was at the Saturn dealership last night and was talking to my salesman. I qualify what he said by stating clearly that I live in SE Michigan so that tends to amplify things in the domestics favor. He told me two things that surprised me: 1) Sales at their dealership have been strong in spite of the downturn and their sales have only recently started to decline. 2) He was talking with a friend of his that was a salesman at a different dealership/brand. That salesman had a friend that was a salesman at a stand alone Pontiac dealership that has yet to sell a car THIS MONTH! Ouch!

As much as I hate to say it, it appears as though a big factor in GM beating estimates is an increase in fleet sales over Sept. 2007. Malibu was 53% fleeted! http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articl...06_FORTUNE5.htm

My wife and I really liked the 9-3 2.0t we leased from '05 - '07. It was a great cruiser and got excellent gas mileage. Still, Saab's are way overpriced, IMO, and the only reason we got it was because of a ridiculous lease deal they offered us. This thing basically competes head to head with the M3 and a nicely equipped CTS (on price, not size ) and I would take either of those cars before this Saab. 9-3's should start in the mid 20's and top out in the mid 30's with convertibles a couple grand more. Of course, how many Saabs are ever actually sold new? When I bought my 9-2X the salesman said he couldn't remember the last time he sold a car as opposed to leasing it. Mind you, we got both of our Saabs from one of the largest Saab dealerships in the U.S.

http://www.reuters.com/article/companyNews...G36179820080919