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smk4565

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Everything posted by smk4565

  1. smk4565
    Genesis replaced a 311 hp V6 with a 300 hp turbo 4 and replaced a 420 hp V8 with a 375 hp V6. They subtracted horsepower, will raise the price, and they think they will find success? Maybe there is a higher output model coming, maybe a hybrid is coming, but the competition already does that.
  2. smk4565
    Genesis is the low price value leader now and has no volume. Even taking out the fact that they needs crossovers, their sedans don’t even sell well. The G70 is a sales dud, big warranty and good JD Power ratings did nothing for it. I think G80 is a better effort than G70 was but I still think it comes up short of where they need to be. Likewise with GV90, it falls short.
  3. smk4565
    If it were that easy then why don't Genesis, Cadillac, Infiniti or whoever copy Mercedes and fleet sale like crazy? Mercedes has been selling E-class taxis for 40-50 years, and yet segment by segment they charge more than any Asian, Korean or American car company, and they outsell them all segment by segment. All these arguments against Mercedes, BMW or Audi with high maintenance cost, or fleet sale or whatever are meaningless. Because that has been the case for 40 years and those 3 are still the top 3. Bottom line is it comes down to product and brand image in the luxury game. What makes the Genesis brand special? Mercedes won the Formula 1 championship 6 years in a row, Audi and Porsche win Le Mans with the same frequency that people eat cheeseburgers. These guys know performance. They have legendary histories. Genesis has no grab to get people in, even if the G80 looks nice, it will probably look dated in 4 years since they mostly copy other people's past design and have an all new styling language every few years.
  4. smk4565
    It is a taxi because it is the longest lasting, most durable mid-size sedan in the world. And the diesel version gets over 40 mpg. And you seem to think that how they use it in Europe has any impact here or there. If it mattered or hurt the image of the car, then Cadillac, Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, etc would have been able to compete with it, none of them could. I'd be more concerned if I were Cadillac or Genesis that my top luxury cars can't get as much status as a taxi.
  5. smk4565
    But did Genesis do enough? Even at a $10k discount to any German sedan now, the G80 is outsold by a huge margin. They have better styling, better interior and better engines on this new one, but can they keep the $10k price discount to attract buyers? G80 sells like 10k units a year, even if they double it, it is still a relatively low volume car. And I don't think they'll double it. This is sort of like when Lincoln brought back the Continental, people got excited and now 4 years later or whatever it has been the car is dead. Because Lincoln didn't do enough and the Contintenal should have been Lexus ES money at best, not where they priced it. The Continental was a dressed up Taurus a the end of the day, while a Lexus ES is a messed up Avalon. And Lexus has way better quality, reliability, resale and image than Lincoln. A Continental starts at $46k, $60k for a Reserve and $70k for Black Label. A Lexus ES starts at $39,900, $45k for the F-sport which is the top trim, and throw $10k in options on and assume $55k for the nicest one. Genesis is in similar spot as Lincoln was with Continental. The Continental wasn't a good car, it was on a crap platform with carry over engines, Ford switchgear and quality and Lincolns have atrocious resale value. So who in their right mind at Ford thought they should charge more than a Lexus ES? And the trap all these companies fall into is they look at $55k for a base 5-series or E-class and think their car is on par with those guys, when in fact they aren't even close.
  6. smk4565
    So you want to compare a base E-class vs a top trim pickup? How about a base Cadillac CT5 with no options to a loaded Toyota Avalon? Which is more luxurious? And if the E-class isn't a luxury car, and has a taxi stigma, how come Cadillac, Acura, Lexus and Infiniti can't challenge it, and Lincoln quit building sedans? The E-class has put the CTS, CT6, Q70, and Continental in the graveyard and the RLX and GS are next. E-class is so great a luxury vehicle it has survived when the rest have all failed, and the E-class has a higher price than all those competitors, even with discount pricing none of those brands could compete. G80 will be no different.
  7. smk4565
    Bad idea, waste of taxpayer money that can go to more important things. Also if did it, they would require the new car to be an EV (which are mostly too expensive, especially for people that have economic hardship) or it would have to be on a car that gets 30 or 35 mpg combined or something fuel efficient and Ford quit making their cars and has nothing fuel efficient, outside of an Escape Hybrid. We don't need more corporate welfare, auto companies were making billions in profits a couple years ago, I didn't see them giving it all away to charity or to the government to pay extra taxes.
  8. smk4565
  9. smk4565
    Exactly, they are pointless comparisons because American luxury brands have gotten to be so sad, the American car fans are left with Ram and Sierra pickups as the last best option. Here is 2019 Revenue: Volkswagen $282.9 billion on 10.34 million units Toyota $272 billion on 9.70 million units Daimler $186.6 billion on 3.34 million units Ford $156 billion on 4.90 million units Honda $141.1 billion on 4.83 million units Hyundai-Kia $137.8 billion on 7.2 million units Renault-Nissan $129.9 billion on 9.22 million units GM $110.9 billion on 7.74 million units FCA $108 billion 4.36 million units Daimler is 3rd in revenue and has the lowest volume of the bunch. I think they are doing fine.
  10. smk4565
    I haven't seen where they have split out the percentage and take rate. But I still stick to there is a price limit where a pick up truck won't sell and there are $200,000 sedans, coupes and SUVs, heck there are $400,000 options in those 3 body styles, there is not even a $100k pickup. The Detroit 3 would charge that kind of money if they could get it. G80 as I said looks nice, but sedans are slow sellers and G80 will need crazy aggressive pricing to have any chance. Where the effort needs put is GV60 and GV70 because small and compact SUVs are what sell. And one day they'll try a GV90 but again, who is going to pay $90k for a Genesis SUV? Not going to happen.
  11. smk4565
    If Ram sells more $50-70k trucks than Mercedes, which I still doubt since a very low percentage are Big Horn, then I guess Ram is beating Cadillac at the luxury game too. And as I have said earlier Mercedes sells more $100k+ vehicles than any other car brand in the world. That is the difference, yes Mercedes sells $40k vehicles but Ram sells $22,000 Promaster Citys, GMC sells $26,000 Terrains, Chevy sells $13k Sparks next to $75k Corvettes, it doesn't matter. And truck incentives are the highest in the industry, JD Power puts the avg light duty pick up with a $51,700 sticker but a $42,036 avg transaction price. The Ram and Sierra start at $29k, and those Denali and Big Horns still are stuck with the same switchgear that is in those cheaper trucks. Not luxury vehicles regardless of what they cost. And if these truck interiors were so great, why haven't Chevy, Ford and Ram put those interiors into their sedan and SUV lines and saved them from being taken over by Toyota and Honda?
  12. smk4565
    See, I don't think truck buyers will be that loyal to Detroit if a better option came along. The Tundra isn't good and it like a 2007 time capsule being sold in modern times. But Toyota put Detroit our of business in sedans (for the most part) and minivans save for the Pacifica, Toyota outsells the Ranger and Colorado. The RAV4 and Highlander took a big chunk of Detroit's SUV market. So all those buyers were not loyal to the Detroit 3, I don't think truck buyers are all that different. Yes some will only buy Ford or only buy Chevy no matter what, but if Toyota came out swinging with their massive cash supply, they could pump $2 billion into an all new Tundra that mops the floor with the competition. I don't think they'd outsell Chevy, but I bet they could sell 250,000 Tundras and steal 50,000 sales from each of the Detroit 3.
  13. smk4565
    Which is why pickups aren't a luxury vehicle, the high power versions were short lived and done, the 2 Lincoln attempts and 1 Cadillac attempt didn't work. People aren't going to pay above a certain level for a truck like they will for an SUV or car. Tesla has fans that will support anything they build. And the Cybertruck won't sell just because it is fast, but it will sell by having the front trunk, that ramp in the tailgate, crazy styling, etc. It will do stuff no other truck can do because of the electric drivetrain and how that is packaged. The Tacoma is the best selling mid-size truck and the Land Cruiser proves they can build an off roader. Problem is the Tundra is old as dirt, and not competitive. And look at the rest of what Toyota does: Corolla- near top of its segment Camry- benchmark in its segment RAV4- benchmark in its segment Lexus RX- most popular in its segment and benchmark front drive crossover. Avalon/Lexus ES- pretty much the last man standing in their segment Prius, the benchmark hybrid until the RAV4 became the #1 selling hybrid in America Wherever Toyota puts effort they are successful. But they put zero effort in the Tundra.
  14. smk4565
    China keeps Audi afloat. Audi sells about as many cars in China as Chevy sells Silverados in the USA. GMC Sierra Denali is probably the nice truck out there, the new Ram has a nice high trim, and the F150 I'd say lags behind both. So buyers don't really have another choice if they NEED a pickup and want the nice one. This is where Toyota totally misses in the full size truck game. The Tundra is dated as can be, has a V8 from 13 years ago that has seen no updates, the truck is a joke. I know an all new Tundra is coming, but there should be an all new Tundra ever 6-7 years. They should sell easily double the number of Tundras that they do now. They can sell 500,000 RAV4's but they can't sell 100k Tundras a year? And there should be a Lexus Truck that is a hybrid turbo V6, 450ish hp, that has all he off road capability of the Land Cruiser (which would make it the most capable truck) all the luxury and tech of an LS or LC plus Lexus-level reliability. This should be such a no-brainer. Toyota has nearly endless cash, they could outspend Ford's F150 program any day of the week if they wanted to, and they have one of the premier luxury brands and premier reliability and resale value brands in the stable. They could easily sell a Lexus pickup starting at $75-80k, with options up to $100k. I think that would outsell the LS500 at the same price point and most of the tooling is already paid from the Tundra that they already have that is a volume product.
  15. smk4565
    Cost doesn't equal luxury. A Freightliner Cascadia is $150k base model, doesn't make it luxury. Sierra's with the 6.2 upgrade or the diesel and Allison transmission or the 2500/3500 level are expensive because of towing/hauling capability. Look at a Terrain or Acadia, interior, powertrain, ride/handling, etc, compare that to an Acura or Infiniti even and GMC loses, compare to an Audi or Mercedes and it isn't even a discussion. Heck the Terrain and Acadia aren't even nearly as luxurious as the Cadillacs that share mechanical bits with them. And that $153k is for a Sierra Denali, what about a Terrain Denali, what is the household income of that buyer? Good for GMC for attracting higher income buyers, I would say why don't they raise the price higher? A GMC Sierra has a base price of $29,600. Why not just make it start at $49,600, and charge $100k for the Denali if this buyer pool is so wealthy? And it comes down to even if the avg Denali household income was $10 million a year, they aren't going to spend $100k on anything that says GMC on it.
  16. smk4565
    GMC, even the Denali isn't a luxury brand, Cadillac is nicer than anything GMC has and Cadillac themselves are tier 2 brand. No one thinks a GMC truck is nicer than an Escalade, and half of Audi's lineup is more luxurious than an Escalade is. The Genesis G80 is nicer than any GMC Denali product on the interior and the G80 is going to struggle to sell. GV80 might do okay to the less discerning crossover buyer. GV80 is undercutting the XT6 and Aviator in price, it is $4k more than an Acura MDX, so it is right in the meat of the segment there, it could do fairly well if it cleans up on the dated Acura and Infiniti models and the lackluster XT6.
  17. smk4565
    Some original MSRP's from 1977 Rolls-Royce Silver Spur $42,000 Mercedes 450SEL 6.9 $39,377 Mercedes 450SEL $25,241 Mercedes SL $22,601 Mercedes 280E $17,114 Mercedes 240D $11,920 (the cheapest Mercedes sold, a 4 cylinder diesel E-class) Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham $11,546 Lincoln Town Car $9,636. They broke in with higher prices and still won, plus Karl Benz invented the car 70 years before they sold a car in the USA, where as Genesis is a total upstart from a car company that itself isn't all that old.
  18. smk4565
    Right, they build for work and utility, not luxury.
  19. smk4565
    A 420 hp Sierra or Silverado does 0-60 in 5.7 seconds vs like 4.7 for a G80. Also trucks have sloppy handling. Let me know when the Silverado beats a CT5-V around a race track.
  20. smk4565
    Pickup trucks don’t have performance and won’t until the Cybertruck arrives. Also a King Ranch or High Country truck is still a far cry from an Audi A6 in terms of interior and technology let alone the higher luxury vehicles. I mean the Kia Telluride has a better interior than a Denali pickup, can’t get Super Cruise in a Silverado or Sierra either and Audi A8 has a system more advanced than Super Cruise. Trucks are expensive (and do well on resale) but that doesn’t make them luxury.
  21. smk4565
    Mercedes in the 70s and 80s cost more than Lincoln or Cadillac did. Granted they also mostly had SL, S-class and E-class so they started with their top cars and worked down. But high prices didn’t stop them from taking the market because they had the best engineered products. I don’t know if G80 and even GV80 are up to the task of taking on E-class, 5-series, GLE and X5. All 4 of those offer a 600 hp option Genesis might stop at 375, and if the chassis was built to only 375 hp, it probably isn’t as good as the one built to handle 600 and get around the Nurburgring. Genesis really needs a GV70 more than anything. Genesis is practically sales proof, they sold under 4,000 cars in Q1. 2 of them have an inline 6 that will win on smoothness all day. Mercedes and Audi will soon have mild hybrid on ever car. I doubt Genesis does any hybrids, plug-in or electric for years. There are going to be Audi drivers racing these Genesis’s saying “E-tron just kicked in, yo!”
  22. smk4565
    And yet the G80 currently starts $12k lower than a 5-series or Eclass and is still outsold 3 to 1 by them, maybe more than that. The new G80 is nicer but Genesis has no brand image at all. They undercut the S-class by $40,000 with the G90 and still can’t sell them.
  23. smk4565
    The Germans engineer cars for performance, ride, handling, etc. I’m not convinced that a G80 can match a 5-series on that front or an E-class on interior materials. The German cars aren’t over priced they are priced correctly for the market since they sell the best. An overpriced car would not have demand. I think the G80 looks sharp and I like the interior. It stomps an Acura or Lexus GS that is as old as dirt at this point. On the surface the G80 looks like a strong competitor but how well will it drive? And what will the price be? This car is dead in the water if it is 5-series money, needs at least a $10k discount.
  24. smk4565
    They'll sell a few, but they will probably price it at 95% the cost of a BMW or Mercedes, and people aren't going to pick a Genesis over the German options. We see that with the G70, I think the challenge gets even harder the farther you go up the ladder.
  25. smk4565
    But the CT6 is gone and I wonder if this G80 is more CT5 size. The G90 would be the CT6 competitor. GV80 however sizes up well with the XT6.
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