smk4565

I think the 2000 STS interior is better than the XT5. The XT5 looks boring, and that wide swath of beige on the dash and black center console looks terrible. They couldn't pit some wood or carbon fiber in there?

Sergio is probably the worst automotive CEO there is. Do they plan to have Chrysler sell only the Pacifica and 300? And for Dodge to sell a retro looking sedan on a 2005 retro platform? Consumers aren't flocking to full size sedans either, that market is striking faster than the segments the Dart and 200 reside in. Why even have Dodge or Chrysler anymore, just build Ram and Jeep.

Agreed on the black trim on the wheel and around the nav screen. It doesn't make sense.

What the CT6 has going for it is full size luxury at slightly above mid size prices. The only cars sitting there are Genesis and K900 which aren't really any threat to anyone, at least not yet. Cadillac is in a good position without having much direct competition so it just comes down to how many buyers want this sort of car. As far as V8s go, GM is building about 600,000 V8s a year for Silverado, Sierra, Tahoe and Yukon. There is the CAFE hit, so if it is doom and gloom for the V8, what replaces those engines? Does the Silverado go with the 3.0 TT v6 to replace the 5.3 and 6.2 V8s? They could and should put the 4.2 liter V8 in the CTS V-sport and ATS-V. The 15,000 4.2 V8s Cadillac would sell a year are nothing on the total CAFE number.

The XTS is on the way out and it will no more steal sales from the CTS than the S Class does from the E Class. CT6 and CTS are $10,000 apart on base price and like $6,000 apart V6 to V6 with all wheel drive. E-class to S-class is a $45,000 jump. Larger gap there. And AGAIN, a V8 is coming. Just drop it already with the "it needs a V8" non sense when it is getting one. And please stop comparing pony car buyers to luxury car buyers. That is just asinine. I am not comparing pony car buyer to luxury car buyer, but only saying both tend to be car enthusiasts. Luxury buyers like V8s, Infiniti, Genesis, K900, Lexus GS, LS, BMW 5-series and up, Jaguars, Mercedes, Audi, etc. They all have V8s, have had them for years. Cadillac made a mistake when they cancelled the Northstar replacement 5-10 years ago. Better late than never, but if Cadillac is serious, and I think they are actually, you need to bring the big guns. Yes it is. Sorry to break it to you. Just because snobby rich folks want it and buy it doesn't make it any less that fact. Rolex is the number one luxury watch seller in the world but they are also way overpriced. I only sold them for a decade or so. I'm not going to even bother with the rest of your post. That dead horse needs a break and you won't learn your lesson anyway. A $90k Tahoe isn't over priced? Cadillac prices the Escalade that way because they can and people buy it. If you have a brand image or high demand product you cash in on it.

I brought up the A8 because Hyper said the CT6 turbo V6 would outrun the German V8s. It won't. A 750i is 4.3 seconds 0-60 the A8 is 3.9 seconds. When you get into the upper echelon of cars, buyers want the ultimate in everything. CT6 is not in that upper echelon so they don't need to offer it all, and I know the V8 is coming, I hope it comes soon. When they get to CT8 though, they better have all it all.

So since you admit that it does not compete with the S Class, then why does it need a V8 now (I say "now" because a V8 is on the way, as you have been told many times here)? The XTS is on the way out and it will no more steal sales from the CTS than the S Class does from the E Class. CT6 needs a V8 because a lot of big luxury sedan buyers like a V8. Chrysler 300C buyers like V8s, Genesis G90, K900 have V8s, the 6-series, CLS and A7 offer V8s. I'd imagine a lot of buyers spending $70k might want the V8 option. Even the Camaro and Mustang have V8s, because sports car enthusiasts like them. CT6 and CTS are $10,000 apart on base price and like $6,000 apart V6 to V6 with all wheel drive. E-class to S-class is a $45,000 jump. Larger gap there. That is because the S Class too high to begin with and that does not mean an only $10K gap is going to be a big deal. There is only a $13K gap between the C-Class and E-Class. How many sales are being robbed there? And AGAIN, a V8 is coming. Just drop it already with the "it needs a V8" non sense when it is getting one. And please stop comparing pony car buyers to luxury car buyers. That is just asinine. S-class isn't priced too high, it is the #1 seller in it's segment for decades. I am not comparing pony car buyer to luxury car buyer, but only saying both tend to be car enthusiasts. Luxury buyers like V8s, Infiniti, Genesis, K900, Lexus GS, LS, BMW 5-series and up, Jaguars, Mercedes, Audi, etc. They all have V8s, have had them for years. Cadillac made a mistake when they cancelled the Northstar replacement 5-10 years ago. Better late than never, but if Cadillac is serious, and I think they are actually, you need to bring the big guns.

You don't think the Corvette won't have a V8 in 5-10 years? The V8 will survive in performance cars and top end luxury cars because enthusiasts want them. If batteries get cheap and get more capacity, that is when they will get more into the main stream. No doubt 4-cylinders will be common place even in the $30-50k cars and probably a lot of crossovers as well. I think the Chevy Traverse could be 4 cylinder in 2017 for example. But the V8 won't just die off. And Mercedes offers 4-cyldiners since the competition uses them, and they do have to hit CAFE and the Euro regs and Chinese displacement tax. Mercedes sill offers a V12 and has said they will continue to well into the future. If they want to sell those V12s and V8s they do need to offset somewhere. Plus a lot of C-class buyers and probably a fair number of E-class buyers are happy with 0-60 in 6.5 seconds. But the bigger engines are always offered too.

So since you admit that it does not compete with the S Class, then why does it need a V8 now (I say "now" because a V8 is on the way, as you have been told many times here)? The XTS is on the way out and it will no more steal sales from the CTS than the S Class does from the E Class. CT6 needs a V8 because a lot of big luxury sedan buyers like a V8. Chrysler 300C buyers like V8s, Genesis G90, K900 have V8s, the 6-series, CLS and A7 offer V8s. I'd imagine a lot of buyers spending $70k might want the V8 option. Even the Camaro and Mustang have V8s, because sports car enthusiasts like them. CT6 and CTS are $10,000 apart on base price and like $6,000 apart V6 to V6 with all wheel drive. E-class to S-class is a $45,000 jump. Larger gap there.

The Audi A8L V8 does 0-60 in 4 seconds and gets 29 mpg highway. Car and Driver had the 2013 A8 at 3.9 seconds, and they added 15 hp last year. It is a pretty quick car. The CT6 needs that V8 option. I agree that luxury cars are like printing money, that is why I was advocating for more Cadillac models in one of the other threads. Cadillac needs a convertible and the expanded crossover lineup in a hurry. The profit gold mine for GM is in the Cadillac brand, not the others.

They need that V8, as it stands, the fastest CT6 is slower than the slowest S-class. But I still don't really think the CT6 competes with the S-class because of the price gap. But so much for the it weighs less, it will be faster theory. Better comparison might be the E450 or AMG E43, whatever the mid-level E-class gets called.

I still don't get why they aren't using their rear drive chassis to build crossovers, rather than build them off front wheel drive Chevy platforms. Well actually, I know why they do it, because it is cheaper and most crossover buyers are dopes and don't know the difference. However, if you want to be the standard of the world, and topple the Germans, you don't do that with the Epsion chassis. The Epsilon chassis can't even topple the Fusion.

It seems like they hit a lot of positive marks on ride, handling and agility. I think it was Automobile's review that said how the interior of the CT6 is a let down because it isn't on par with the big Germans. But it is a lot cheaper than the big Germans. It falls in size and price against the Equus and K900, but it handles much better than those cars, and the interior easily seems on par or better than the Koreans in that price class. So I think they have them beat at the discount full size sedan game. I think though an E-class has technology and interior quality better than a CT6, the 5-series and A6 aren't slouches either. I think Cadillac is going to try and steal people that want mid-size car performance in a full size car package. But I am not sure there are so many "sport sedan" buyers that want a full size car. I guess on one hand they are trying to carve out a niche, but I think it could be hard to steal sales off the establishment, they'll probably steal more sales off the XTS or CTS.

I feel like Cadillac's recent strategy has been to copy what others had work. Lexus RX sells big, the SRX basically copies the name, similar size, price, fwd v6 set up, etc. The ATS and CTS were made to copy the 3 and 5 series. The XTS was a split between catering to Deville buyers, but also copying the Lexus ES, which is a dressed up Avalon, as the XTS is a dressed up Lacrosse/Impala. XTS was also a stop gap product, I am not sure what CT6 is. To me CT6 is 7-series size for 5-series money, just as the CTS used to be 5-series size for 3-series money. I'm not really sure what the point of going back down that road is. I don't think Cadillac has a real plan other than to mimic the Germans size segments for crossovers and sedans, and undercut them on price in the process.

I'm not so sure the CT6 will be a game changer, or even do a whole lot to steal from the Germans or Lexus. But I am quite interested to read the reviews and see the test drive videos, and see the comparisons.

Actually in thinking about it, almost any car that added a DOHC engine got better. The C4 Corvette with the 1991 ZR-1 had a DOHC V8 and get better. The Pontiac Torrent GXP, Bonneville GXP, Buick Lucerne Super, Malibu when it switched from the 3500 V6 to the 3.6 DOHC, even Mercedes when they dropped the 3.2 V6 and 5.0 SOHC twin spark V6 and V8 for the DOHC 3.5 and 5.5 V6 and V8s.

A lot of luxury cars sell well, and the luxury market overall seems to be growing. People pay $85k for a Cadillac version of the Tahoe, just like people will pay $40k for a BMW 3-series that is the same size a a $20,000 Mazda 3. I think there are always people willing to pay more money for more performance or more luxury. A Camaro can do 90% of what a Corvette can do, but they still sell 30,000 Corvettes a year.

The GXP Torrant has the 3.6 DOHC rather than the 3.4 Pushrod.... it was made specifically to appease SMK. I just looked up the Torrent GXP, it is better than I thought. 264 hp and 250 lb-ft at 2,300 rpm. The DOHC design really makes it a winner. Also remember the Saturn Vue Red Line which had a Honda sourced 3.5 liter V6 with V-Tech! Too bad they never put the Northstar V8 in an SUV, besides the SRX, which the gen 1 SRX is probably under $10,000 now, but probably high miles.

That is right, I forgot there was a Torrent GXP. I almost forgot about GXP Pontiacs altogether, and I just suddenly had a Northstar Bonneville flashback. I think the GXP Torrent had like 245 hp V6, but that is just working off memory.

I hear that a SUPER/Sports CAR is in the works after 2020.. that will be the "STx" Line But what about the XTS? or the Dodge Charger SXT? or the SRX?

XT5 should be priced $10,000 above SRX, the XT3 would be smaller like ATS size and priced where the current SRX is, that still allows for a compact $32k crossover around 178 inches long. Make a 3 row crossover and that gives you 4 total.

Ellinghouse says there are going to be 2 crossovers below XT5 and a 3 row crossover above XT5. He said there could even be a 5th crossover in the line-up, that would also be above XT5. I am curious how they price the XT5, because if they price it against the Lexus RX it is going to be hard to get 2 vehicles below that.

I just think once you build 2 cars in China, it is easy to build 3 or 4, and then they are going down that road. Johan told Car and Driver that they are working on a 4.2 liter bi-turbo V8 with upper 400s horsepower for the CT6. They need that ASAP, and I'd actually like to see them put that in the CTS V-sport and ATS-V. Then the 3.0 TT V6 can be the mid-level engine in the CTS and ATS, and the 2.0T would be the base engine. Then you don't really need the 3.6 V6 anymore, and Cadillac sedans would be all turbo.

The Infiniti names were always a bit jumbled. I can hardly keep straight what is what in their line up. They don't market their products well, and basically every Infiniti gets miss-mashed together because they all have a similar name with no meaning. And as far as some aspiration stepping stone, what a joke that is. They think the Q50 buyer aspires to buy a Q60 the next time (which is a 2 door) then buy a Q70, a big four door, and then buy a Q80 that doesn't exist so they buy a Genesis G90 instead? I think that moving up thing is a myth anyway. If you love the 3-series, you will probably keep buying 3-series because you like the nimble handling and sportiness. I don't know if a 3-series buyer wants a 7-series that is 2 feet longer and weighs 5,000 lbs.

Pontiac Torrent. Those have to be dirt cheap at this point.