smk4565
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Everything posted by smk4565
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Fiat News: No One Wants To Take FCA Says Marchionne
smk4565 replied to William Maley's topic in Fiat
No one wants it because you get the debt and pension and union obligations that come with it. That is why the Jeep name is worth more than the whole company. FCA has too many brands for anyone to buy it. Most car makers want 2 brands may be 3 unless you are VW. No one wants to take on 8 more brands and try to market them and feed them product.- 35 replies
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I thought that was a Lincoln and back then it was Continental Town Car or something, it was before they split the name into 2 models.
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Buick doesn't compete with Mercedes, they aren't even on par with Lincoln.
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- august 2017
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The ML/GLE outsold the X5 in 1999, 2000, 2001, 2006, 2008, 2016 and 2017 YTD.
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Here is a quote from the chief engineer in charge of the Lexus project in the 1980s that became the LS400: "The car is not something that sits around, it’s something that needs to move around. So I thought. I want to build a car that beats Mercedes-Benz in the most basic function a car has, its driving performance." He also used this survey from the 80s on what Mercedes buyers find most import: Status and prestige of image High quality Resale value Performance (e.g., handling, ride, power) Safety I think at the time they thought the 250 hp V8 would beat Mercedes in performance, but Mercedes got the S-class from like 240 hp to 389 hp in top trim in about 2 years time, and then that was over. But yes, Mercedes was Lexus's original target in the 80s. Cadillac had many reasons they failed yes, mostly reliability which is what Lexus capitalized on. Even today if you ask a Lexus RX buyer why they bought it instead of a Cadillac XT5, I am sure the #1 response would be the Lexus is more reliable.
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That is my point, the XT5 and GLE have the same length and width, it is the same footprint. The Equinox is 183" x 73" x 65" which is pretty spot on to a GLC, and I imagine the Cadillac XT4 will be pretty spot on size wise to the Equinox. So the XT4 will be sized identical to a GLC, but they can't price it like a GLC, because the XT5 is priced there, so that forces XT4 downmarket to the price of the sub-compact euros. Benz isn't raping anyone on price, they sell a small SUV at the price range of a C-class, and a mid-size SUV at the price of an E-class. I don't see Cadillac selling the CTS at $38,950 so it is E-class size at C-class prices, that was a complaint for years by many here.
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When Toyota decided to launch the Lexus brand, the basis was Mercedes-Benz. That was know as the benchmark luxury car of the 80s, they used surveys of what Mercedes owners found most important in their purchase decisions, they took the LS400 to the Autobahn, the whole point of the project was to out-Mercedes, Mercedes. Where Lexus has done well is quality and reliability, they are the best in reliability and that is what they built their reputation on. The reason Lexus took a lot of business off American luxury car companies, is the same reason Toyota took business off Chevy and Ford, reliability.
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I never drove an NSX, but it was $75,000 in 90s money for a 270 hp version of the Accord V6. More money than a Porsche 911 and nearly double the price of a Corvette, even though the C4 Corvette wasn't that good, it was still faster at half the price. Nothing with an Accord engine is worth 911 money.
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Why would I compare Mercedes to GM? Cadillac who makes up less than 5% of GM's global volume is the only GM brand competing with Mercedes and they only do it in 2 markets. Comparing GM to VW, Toyota, or Renault-Nissan makes sense. And I originally said that Mercedes wasn't worried about Cadillac, they seem more concerned with Tesla and AMG has their sights set on Porsche. The consumer can compare whatever they want. Mercedes is worried about the future and how quickly EV's will take over, how much ride-sharing makes an impact, how quickly the EU says no more ICE engines, etc.
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Not replace ICE, Add 10 EV's to the existing line of ICE vehicles. No ICE cars are getting dropped, except the SLC which would get dropped anyway due to slow sales and they have other convertibles. Post 2030 they might not even make a gas or diesel engine, and post 2040 they won't for sure, so they have to start the transition.
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The 1993 SL had a V12 too.
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More than Lincoln, Cadillac, Infiniti, Lexus, and Acura combined.
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Maybe Mercedes preferred front engine cars, they still do. And Mercedes had a 400 hp V12 at the time that 270 hp NSX went on sale. Honda knows nothing about performance, the McLaren Honda has defaulted half the F1 races this year Mercedes has 435 points to McLaren/Honda's 11 points this year.
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I think the price and gas mileage are really good, but it doesn't quite look like an SUV, and I think that is why the sales are a little lack luster.
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Hey look, a super car with less torque than a 1996 Buick LeSabre! That 90s NSX is still the most overpriced car ever.
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I do know that performance is more than acceleration, it is about braking, ride quality, handling, sound deadening, etc. Mercedes does all that, they have like 25 AMG models to 2 V-series, 2 Lexus F models and zilch at Infiniti. The XT5 and Lexus RX are the size of a GLE, not GLC. The XT4 should be $40k and the size of an Equinox, an XT5 should be like $50-85k. Then the XT3 in the $30s. This is no brainer stuff. Even the number on the car XT3-4-5 can help people know that it is $30,000, $40,000 and $50,000 starting price since Cadillac likes that sort of sequential order.
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Right, but I never claimed Cadillac didn't make luxury cars, they always have. It is false for people to say Mercedes didn't make a luxury car in the 60s or 70s. The 1966 Fleetwood Brougham Sixty Special was $6,695. A base model Mercedes 600 in 1965 was $22,000. And a 1966 Mercedes 300SE was $8,048.
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Funny how Cadillac fans have to go back in time 50 years to find the last time they competed with import luxury cars, and that was mainly because 50 years ago there were no import luxury cars in the USA. As soon as the Germans came in the 70s and the Japanese in the late 80s, Cadillac went from 1st place to 7th place.
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Ummmm
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Mercedes build the most expensive, most technologically advanced luxury sedan in the 60s and 70s with the 600. More expensive than any Rolls or Bentley.
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You don't need a V8 to be a performance car, but you need horsepower, which Mercedes has a lot of. Ferrari was a sports car and really a racing company in the 50s and 60s that also build street cars. Mercedes was a luxury sedan company with a few cruiser convertibles, they didn't compete back then. They don't really compete now either.
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Haha, the 300SL was the fastest car in the world in 1955, so they didn't forget how to build performance. The 460SEL 6.9 had a 147 mph top speed in 1976, even the Corvette had a top speed of 130 mph in 1976. Oil crisis slowed down the performance in the late 70s, early 80s, but the S-class with the 5.6 liter was faster than any other luxury sedan back then, and they brought out the V12 in 1991 and a 209 mph SLR in 2003. There has always been performance and engineering. And their luxury SUVs sell just fine.
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- august 2017
- mercedes-benz
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Mercedes built luxury cars in the 1920s and 1930s, this isn't new to them. ATS-V and CTS-V came long after cars like the 450SEL 6.9, or the C36/C43 of the 90s, the 500E of the early 90s, the Cosworth 190 of the 80s, the V12 SL of the 90s, etc. The 300SL was the first supercar, they have been at the performance game a long time. Cadillac has 1 sedan with a V8 and Cadillac fans want to call them a performance brand. Mercedes has coupe/sedan/convertible C-class with V8, E-class sedan/convertible/wagon with V8, S-class sedan/Coupe/convertible with V8 and V12, Maybach with V8 and V12, SL with V8 and V12, AMG GT coupe/roadster with V8, CLS with V8, etc. The XT5's success is mid-size car for small size prices, same way Lexus and Lincoln do it. Mercedes doesn't do that.
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Cadillac itself is hardly a weapon against Mercedes, Mercedes is more concerned with Porsche and Tesla than they are Cadillac. I have said for years there should be an Alpha SUV, and I said the same for Omega once that platform came out. But we'll never know how one would do in driving dynamics vs an X5 or GLE because Cadillac won't build it.
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Because they are smart and cover all the segments, and they had 4 SUVs in 2009 well ahead of the crossover wave that Cadillac missed.
