z28luvr01

I love the 87-88 Cutlasses with the dual-element headlamps like the last one posted. We had champagne '84 Calais and a black '85, both with 231 V6s. I wish we could have held on to at least one of them. Any love for the first-gen Cutlasses?

Okay, so there's two problems emerging: Zeta is a sedan platform, so any Camaro based off of it will be heavier than it "could" be If Alpha won't support a V8, there's no way we get a 6th gen Camaro on Alpha, for the very same reason why you didn't start this thread on CZ28. Here's some of my patented off-the-wall thinking: The Kappa cars are said to be slated to merge with the Corvette and XLR programs. Obviously, the platform that results will be lightweight, able to support a V8, somewhat affordable, and yield a low-slung sports-car stance, how about moving Camaro there as well? I'd imagine that a Camaro built on this platform would end up costing as much as a "Zeta II" Camaro that bears the extra cost of lightening Zeta. In any event, a non-V8 Alpha Camaro would piss a lot of people off. As far as other wish-list items go, I'd love to see the 6th gen drenched in 70-73 Camaro DNA.

Not a bad deal at all. If you want the '77 to drive right away, I'd check the floorboards, etc. for rust before taking the plunge. If you want it as a project, go for it - parts are plentiful for these, and you could always turn it into a dune buggy.

Mustang is unquestionably the worst of the three. It's a tossup between Camaro and Challenger. Both have elements that I like and that I wish could be better.

A cargo plane full of Toyotas, providing it happens at sea or in a desolate location, because nothing's worse than having half a burning Camry on your front lawn.

I don't think keeping the Escalade around for those people is any better an idea than offering pale pink as a color choice in the hopes that Mary Kay saleswomen will buy one. And even if they "need" a full-sized luxury SUV, they can always go with a GMC Denali, which should be made even better in the absence of an Escalade.

The NA 1.4 should've been here already. The Aveo can only dream of 38.5mpg while rolling down hill with a steady tailwind, and given its smaller size it could probably pull down over 40mpg highway with this engine. If the turbo 1.4 can give comparable performance to my 2.2L while giving high 20s/low 30s city MPGs, I'd be all over it as a daily driver to justify buying a nice toy.

The newer SCs come with the Ecotec, which should be still faster. So do the 02+ J bodies and N-bodies, and some of those came with the Getrag 5 speed.

Don't forget Holden - they're going to be a large part of making this happen, and they should probably get one of every variant mentioned here: coupe, sedan, wagon, convertible, 2dr and 4dr pickup, crossover, etc. Of course the volumes needed for Holden would be infinitesmal compared to GMNA's demands, but I think harmonizing the tooling in the GMNA Zeta plants with the Elizabeth plant will yield a very powerful scenario where GM could shift production of various Zetas between GMNA and GMH as demands and currency rates fluctuate. Perhaps this could even justify significant investment in Elizabeth or the creation of another Australian Zeta plant to handle the extra export demand.

I like it. Groupthink suggests that GM leave the trucks as they are, and decimate the passenger car lineups. This actually diversifies things a bit - most civilians don't NEED a Silverado, Tahoe, or an Avalanche but get one because there's no better option at GM. Case in point - how many Silverados out there do you see with nary a scratch in the bed? A compelling small pickup or wagon/crossover could entice people away from the large trucks and into vehicles that, while fully capable of handling Home Depot runs and towing a small boat or trailer, are smaller, lighter, more manageable, more fun to drive, and more efficient. I'm surprised you didn't allocate yourself an El Camino. The Chevy could be the handyman's special (and optioned as such) while the Pontiac remains focused on sport/youth. And another thing, I think a Zeta II that is lighter and more flexible is possible if GM is overwhelmed with consumer demand for the first generation Zetas.

Wow, what a thread. I have our IM conversation saved and will post it tomorrow when I get in. My meeting lasted a LOT longer than I expected. I think we should all take a step back for a while. It's pretty heated in here. The CAFE regs are here, the CO2 emission regs are coming, and GM as well as the rest of the industry needs to figure out the best way to deal with them, while getting a decent ROI on Zeta and not asking too much of Alpha. What PCS has done (as said by Camino) is make us aware of the internal struggles at GM with regard to how to satisfy both conditions. Love him or hate him, he's just a messenger (self appointed or otherwise) from one of the dueling factions and shouldn't be tarred and feathered. I don't think he takes any joy in being the cause of every GM brand outside of Chevy, Saturn Caddy, and Opel dying. He might enjoy Holden's death a bit, but even that's debatable. These ideas aren't his own, but he must carry them out. And truth be told, he hasn't done anything up to this point to even warrant a warning, much less a banning. I keep reading Buickman comparisons, yet when did Buickman ever start "Happy Birthday" threads in the Lounge? Also, instead of having a public intervention, send us a PM. We'll consult over it and respond appropriately.

There's probably a fuse panel somewhere on the driver's side, either underneath the dash, or behind a pull-out panel on the left side of the dash where it meets the door panel. On the panel they should be labeled RADIO, HORN, A/C, etc., but if they're not you'll probably need a service manual to tell you which one's which. Oh, and since this involves a Mazda, +1 rock.

Careful - if you end up buying a Spyder, that's as good as coming out of the closet.

This is old news. I've witnessed this in practice at least since I was in high school back in the mid 90s. Ultimately it shows both ignorance AND cowardice, as anyone racist with balls would just call a black person the n-word right to his face, not that I condone doing so.

Very nice, Bob. I really like how the new front end plays out in silver. The LaCrosse CXS I rented in San Antonio was a real warrior, even with the 3.6L. This car should give you decades of trouble-free service. Lots of luck with it.

I know, I know. My parade of smileys wasn't directed at you; it's more for those inside GM (and anywhere else) that still insist that rear-drive cars are inherently less efficient or more polluting, just because they're rear-drive. Every time I hear this half-assed, baseless excuse, a little bit of my patience dies.

Uh, guys...I think I may have hit on something here:

RE: The "that website is garbage" comment, I'm just going to take the high road. There's just no need for me to do otherwise. Sad news for him I'm sure. He had high hopes for GMS, it just never materialized.

I see your point. Pontiac should eschew this, the G8, and the Solstice and dedicate itself to making FWD fleet specials. That'd be a much more successful strategy.

Eclipse Spyder

+1 on wanting the regular cab. I really liked the H3T concept pickup, so I'm a little let down. It'll do fine though, and the inside blows away the Colorado/Canyon

Calm down, I can hear your screams of joy from all the way over here I have a feeling someone is looking up Amtrak train schedules. This is good news. If GM throws their marketing muscle behind it and the G8 like they did for the Malibu, things might just be OK for Pontiac.

March 19-20: Press Days March 21-30: Open to the public I'll probably go somewhere between the 24th and the 28th. I try to avoid the first couple of days. I usually take the LIRR into Penn and just hoof it to the Javitz Center - it's about five blocks away. Plus, they have a package where if you buy a round trip ticket the ticket to the show is severely discounted.

I'm pretty sure I will. It'll have to be during the week though because my Saturdays from March until May will be booked training for a century ride again. I hope they have a G8 on the floor that I can sit in.