regfootball

G6 - GTP SEDAN ENGINE, 3.9L HO V6 SFI TRANSMISSION MANUAL 6 SPEED BLACK TRIM, EBONY MANUFACTURER'S SUGGESTED RETAIL PRICE $ 24,210.00 Options installed by Manufacturer LICENSE PLATE BRACKET, FRONT NO CHARGE TRANSMISSION, 6-SPEED MANUAL (REPLACES STD/OPT TRANSMISSION) $ 0.00 LEATHER PACKAGE: GTP LEATHER APPOINTED SEATING 6-WAY POWER DRIVER SEAT HEATED FRONT SEATS LEATHER WRAPPED STEERING WHL STEERING WHEEL RADIO CONTROLS LEATHER WRAPPED SHIFT KNOB AND PARK BRAKE HANDLE $ 1,265.00 ENGINE BLOCK HEATER $ 35.00 ONSTAR SYSTEM -INCLUDES 1 YEAR SAFE & SOUND $ 695.00 AXLE RATIO 3.55 NO CHARGE TOTAL PACKAGE SAVINGS $ -500.00 PREMIUM VALUE PACKAGE INCLUDES: (4) 18" 5 SPOKE ALLOY ULTRA-BRIGHT WHEEL AM/FM STEREO 6 DISC CD PLAYER (REPLACES STD/OPT/PKG RADIO) PANORAMIC ROOF, POWER $ 2,350.00 (4) TIRES, P225/50R18 SUMMER-ONLY PERFORMANCE $ 150.00 FRONT SIDE IMPACT AIR BAGS & HEAD-CURTAIN SIDE AIR BAGS $ 690.00 TOTAL OPTIONS $ 4,685.00 TOTAL VEHICLE & OPTIONS $ 28,895.00 DESTINATION CHARGE $ 625.00 TOTAL VEHICLE PRICE*** $29,520.00

"No question that the 3.9l is a bit more thirsty" ok, so we've just eliminated the fuel economy issue. By the way, lots of real world testimonies from Nissan owners report quite good mileage from their vq's. Honda's get good mpg also. The Mazda/Ford v6 gets its best mileage with the CVT in the Freestyle/Fivehundred. In fact, the 500 manages a 20/29 rating for a heavier car. "The 3.9l is adequate in it's current form." Its got decent power on paper but we've yet to see times on it and I haven't driven one. And I'm not gonna for 29 grand. TRY TO FIND A G6 GTP manual anywhere under 28,500 or whatever on gmbuypower.com. Last time I checked each and every one was optioned up to around 29,300. Sorry, but that's too much. "For a 240hp engine, it gets equal, if not better gas mileage than Nissan's 6cyl's." I would doubt that (see above). I've read lots of owner reports that say the Nissan gets pretyt good mileage. Not bad for 9-10 time in a row Wards winner. "It's got a nice, broad, flat torque band to boot." Fine, can it rev at all too? The Maxima has balls on the band top to bottom, torque and power. Its got awesome amounts of both. We all say we love torque just like we all say the chubby chick has a nice personality, even though we really wish she was built more like Jessica Alba as well. One reason the GM Ecotec 4 cylinder I enjoy them so much is that they can rev as well as have good torque. But I've yet to drive an OHV GM v6 that feels as lively and energetic through the whole powerband as even the Ecotec 4's. I will have to find me a G6 manual to drive to see if its any good as its numbers do intrigue me. But more than one buff book said the 3.9 didn't feel hardly any more powerful than the 3.5, and that's not encouraging. "It gets better gas mileage than it's comparable 3.6l DOHC engine" hardly a scant bit better. If barely. If at all. NON issue. "-- and here's the kicker: it's cheaper to build" at 29,300 that savings is going into somebody's pension fund or GM's pocket, its not saving me any money versus that Altima. that Sonata might still be faster and its like 4 grand or more cheaper. "and it's potential hasn't even been fully tapped yet!" true, but GM is slow to get this going, the 3800 in the 06 Lucerne isn't much more powerful than the early-mid nineties versions of the 3800. from carsdirect.com (and they usually high still) Mazda Mazda6 4dr Sedan s Sport (leather/roof/v6/manual/SAB/SAC) $26,730MSRP Price: $24,382Invoice Price: $24,632Sales Price:($3,000)Manufacturer Rebates: Target Price: $21,632 (I'm sure you could get it even another thou cheaper at some dealers). I cannot buy that G6 with leather and stuff for that price. The G6 in some cases has the panorama roof and stabilitrak as advantages, but even the G6's with leather and a standard sunroof are still around 29 grand. So much for value pricing. Its fair to say the G6 GTP manual is a spot on competitor for the Mazda6 manual. C/D ran a 6.4 second 0-60 with their sedan and their wagon ran 7.2 0-60 fresh and new. I would ask that the G6 should be able to meet at least 7.0 in the same run and if it could come close to the 6.4 it would be nice. Will it we don't know. I am only presenting this this way. GM's achievement here is the incorporation of the vvt into a pushrod design which deserves credit. BUT I don't think it makes it a class leader or anything. Its a nice feature set for a basic family car or minivan I suppose. And yet it doesn't seem to give any major end benefit to the consumer, either in money saved, or advantages in performance or fuel economy. It would have been a bigger splash for the G6 to arrive in GXP form with the 3.6 hf and 270 hp at the same price point its trying for. Get this, I'd lay money that even the new four cylinder Passat with stick may have a good chance of outrunning the GTP G6, for less or about the same money. The G6 GTP ought to be at the same real out the door pricing levels as the Mazda 6s, because it needs to perform about the same as that, and hopefully it ought to match its acceleration numbers. I don't wet my pants on the Mazda 6, I think it even is overrated, but here I am merely using it to present the value equation here to whow that I just don't think the end user sees the value of the use of pushrods in this case at too high a price for what you get.

he 2.2 ecotec typically exceeeds its EPA figures in most cars it goes into. Still, GM could detune/modify the 2.2 down to a 1.9 or so, add vvt, and some other tricks, and put it in the Aveo and base Cobalt and let see what it does. I'd bet 33/45.

a neat idea in concept. the govt will get stuck with a lot of this health care bill eventually anyways. even 2% a year would help.

For that reason my bottles of 'obsession' and 'eternity' and 'polo' have lasted since like 92. I've got some other crap that I can't remember the name of it, actually its pretty decent stuff, i just can't remember the name, dammit. shit. JOOP! that's it! wierd smelling, but nice in a cigar lounge sort of way. do any of those 'pheromones' additives work, like that 99x shit by "Dr. Winnifred Cutler"? Those ads are in the back of all the car mags. I doubt that shit works, but man I am curious. If that stuff did work, it'd sell for 1000 bucks a bottle, not 100. I love all your guys' suggestions. More, please. I need some new scents to improve my stock around the chicks at work. If enough of the women like the way I smell, they'll want to work with me, tell their supervisors, and then it will get to MY boss, then I'll get a raise. My mother in law used to get me nasty frickin cologne every year for Xmas. One time on new years day I dumped like 3 bottles of nasty cologne down the toilet. One of them was like 'by Billy Dee Williams' or something. RUDE SHIT. for the cheap colognes, stetson is tolerable, especially for chicks dancing in country bars. from what i remember. Every week we get the department store flyer with colgne samples. Actually, i snorted some Britney Spears cologne the other day and it wasn't bad. Usually celebrity perfume sucks. I can't remember if Debbie/Deborah Gibson perfume was any good but if she was wearing it I'd be all over her anyways. Like I WANT to smell like Michael Jordan's jock itch. I recently have got Chanel no 5 for my wife. Its a classic and its the bomb. Chance by chanel is very good too. And Allure by Chanel is top notch as well. I owuld buy my wife like 50 bottles of perfume if I could afford it. When women walk by and you catch a whiff, it can be deadly.

[quote name='regfootball' date='Sep 30 2005, 05:39 PM'] what I get for the money? haha, I have searched GM buypower for a G6 GTP with 3.9 and manual transmission. I lost complete and total interest when the MSRP of each and everyone of them was absurdly priced at like 29 thousand. So a car I would actually consider buying even though it has pushrods....'what I get for the money'? Well, I'm getting decent but not stunning hp. And I'm not getting great gas mileage then, either. But, I can get a Mazda 6 with will likely register equal performance numbers with said manual transmission and I can buy it in a trim that I can get for 7-10 grand less out the door. I guess if I have to buy a car with a 29 thousand dollar sticker, I can settle for a base Maxima or an Altima SE-r where I get more value for the dollar. Or now an Accord EX 6 speed. Or, I can get a Mazda 6 and save big coin. GM's 3.9 powertrain option is not giving me value in this scenario, and it has no performance advantage or mileage advantage. So as for PM giving an award for something that cannot outperform its contemporaries vs. price.....they only gave the award because it was the application of vvt to a pushrod engine. Not because the engine itself was fantastic. I bet I would like the G6 GTP, but it would have to be f*ing stellar under the hood to justify its insane price tag for what you actually get, which I am laying money down still isn't a complete match to the Nissan VQ series or the Honda v6. If value to the customer here is part of GM's equation for the creation of this engine, then lower the MSRP by 5-6 thousand on that GTP G6 I want. If it doesn't, its merely just a manufacturing savings pocketed by GM with no obvious performance benefit to the end user. At least with the 3800 series you could always make the engine that you were getting better mpg, which was true and for some was worth selecting the car based on that criteria. and driving the Malibu and G6 with the 3.5, I have found that the 3.5 while improved over the 3.4, is still not up in total power and refinement with the competition.

no, i totally get what you are saying as well. its market responsive. but there is a small facet of this that benefits the labor aspect of it as well I think.

all the LaCrosse improvements are good, good job GM. I would say its a bit odd if a base Sonata has stability control standard, I think that should force buick to make it std on all the models, or at least the mid and upper level ones.

some accountant said they would save 3 cents a mirror by making them black instead of body color. Meanwhile, Jettas and such get folding mirrors in body color with turn signal repeaters.

I absolutley love hockey; its a shame the strike really hurt the league badly. GO NORTH STARS......er, WILD.

if the plants are big enough, a strike can still be crippling, however, if a car can be made globally, any where, any time, and still meet all reg's then it gives GM great flexibility in utilizing all plants and on the fly deciding where the best place is to produce at any time any one of their models. It's a great move. If they strike in Lordstown, for example, and can build the same car in Mexico...they can just shift the production and keep making the cars. That doesn't mean the strike isn't damaging, but it wouldn't totally cripple the company. The net result would be more pressure to the union to get their demands closer to what the end result needs to be.

check those gas mileage figures of the 3900 in the G6, yeah, that's saving gas.

yup. if they wanted to cheap out on making cost efficient engines, why not just make simple SOHC head versions of the same HF v6's without vvt or anything. they could put those in base model cars but would still see the benefits of the smoother ohc design.

but you gotta admit, if it helps them respond to market faster and allows them to more quickly build what the market needs, its still a good thing from that standpoint. It helps them be competitive with other makers that way.

aside from the whole union labor/strike thing, its massively beneficial to be able to build multiple models at multiple plants, for demand reasons etc. Imagine if a design is successful, they can crank it up at some underutilized plants and respond to the market quicker. If a model is tanking, scale back and build something else and more efficiently use the manufacturing capacity you have. Other industries have been doing this since basically forever, so its great to see the carmakers being able to start doing this and lessening the harmful strike factor, as well as having more responsive and efficient production. "Hey folks, if you don't wanna build em in Michigan, we'll just build em in Texas", etc.

you might have beat me to saying that very thing

if you are a family, and need say, a van, and you work for Ford, but really thought the Freestar was a pile of dung, why shouldn't you be able to buy a Sienna or a Grand Caravan? Or let's say you want an AWD sedan but work for GM and you can't afford an STS? What if the Aveo has an inferior warranty to the Accent? What if you just flat out prefer the looks or interior or engine on a competing product and can't reason spending your hard earned money for something you don't want? Company pride is one thing, but people have choices and standards and their own criteria as well.

i thought Chrysler dropped their 7/70 powertrain warranty for 06?

anjelina=hot hot hot

well, that's the price of owning the car.

if mercedes was selling 20,000 dollar cars, you could see why they need to trim expenses, but they sell 80,000 dollar cars and still can't make enough money?

both are the same. Neither GM nor Mits can move most of their cars without them. So the pot calling the kettle black stuff is not a viable point number five. You have no other response because you know its true. Gm can't move iron without insane gimmicks either. So its simply not fair to rip on anyone for that. Be it Ford, Mits, VW, whoever. And that's ALL I'm pointing out, is that its hypocritical to say it, even though its true. Mazda's incentives are actually some of the highest right now. Your average Mazda 6 has about 6 grand in total discounts on the hood right now. Mazda is incentivizing leases on RX-8's so they can persuade anyone to take em for 200 bucks a month. The failure of the Mits zero zero zero program was very real, but it was because their lame ass customers couldn't afford to make payments on their cars. From a marketing aspect, their sales went up like 43% in two years. The fault was poor finance screening, not the cars. It wasn't the maker's fault. Your point number 5 was just a potshot and nothing else. Even if it were Ford or whatever, I would have to call 'you' on the carpet for it, even if it wasn't you. It's insane for a die hard GM fan to make a point of saying 'x' and 'x' has to resort to incentives to move cars. I'm simply pointing out the hypocrisy in that statement, if it were anyone else ripping on any other competitor, your point #5 is just inherently hypocritical. whatever. You can say its not related. Its the same thing. one advantage a Raider has over a Dakota is a better warranty.

"I'm merely calling attention to Mitsubishi's alarming dependence on gimmicks to sell cars" scratch out "Mitsubishi", insert "(GM Brand)" here. its 'worked' basically only twice for GM. Once after 9/11, and just now for employee pricing. I'm sorry, but GM has had just an alarming dependence and its been no more successful otherwise. And c'mon, 6000 dollar and more rebates? Typical GM fare. GM's been running constantly on gimmicks since Sept 11, 2001. You have no leg to stand on trying to crucify another carmaker for the exact same sort of thing GM is the industry leader for. Do you know how horrible the sales for GM would be right now had they not pulled the Employee discount out of their ass 4 months ago? And now, they just keep riding it like a great big joke. GM's red ink and sales losses just kept mounting for most of this year and it took the monster of all gimmicks to fuck the public into thinking they were getting some spectacular once in a lifetime deal. That is the biggest gimmick of all time!

new face-nice the center stack still needs a redo. overall the new Fusion still looks nicer.

basically, I think they liked the car a lot, but they stopped short of gushing about it. Because you know, C/D cannot gush over a GM product. But if we weren't bombarded with this RWD phase/fad of cars right now that the mags are gushing over too, they would like the GXP even more.