regfootball

a. the value pricing was a scam. if you look, the MSRP's are up across the board for most decently optioned models. b. the dealers still have no product. most losts still look vacant. c. gas prices are still casuing doubt in consumers whether they should buy a small car or get another large car. d. the economy is still in a lull e. neither GM nor Ford seem to be advertising anymore. f. Ford I know has some big time lease incentive programs going on now too g. the most important thing...new product, even with all the new GM products this year, they still are not bringing out new and improved products to replace their old clunkers fast enough. GM should be doubling the pace of their newest products.

wow. that interior is CHEAP and HORRIBLE.

G20?

well i wasn't saying GM was the leader in this regard. But their cars today are getting better. Packaging efficiency is one thing I like in a vehicle, which is why I have an Aztek and am currently looking at a Ford 500 or Freestyle.

I tested a redline Ion awhile ago and it was an absolute hoot. the interior felt junky, but it had power and handling that will make you smile wide. If the cabin were larger I would buy one. Its too tight for the kid, much less adults, in back, although the rear doors are handy in that aspect. Honestly, if you want a fun car with balls and handling...cheap, you can't go wrong on this one. Get over the dash, you'll adjust. The seats are killer, the shifter is sweet.

:)

if we only had a new Camaro, this would all fix itself.

haha, I'm glad someone else sees the highway robbery going on in that industry. Farmers are the most government incentivized propped up giveaways in this country. and true, the tastes of Americans would love to see more global type cars. Detroit has been naive to think that everyone wants an AMURCHAN flavored car.

they used to. I think now their policy is very few fleet sales. as in close to zero, read that like 2 weeks ago or something. BTW, my Diamante rental on a trip back in 98 is why I have purchsed 2 Diamante rental return cars since then. in lieu of say, a new Saturn L series at the time. I've had Endeavor and new Galant loaners recently that made a great impression on me also. That's partly why I think the Galant would be a sedan I could enjoy driving a lot in spite of its cheap interior. I was able to decide first hand if I liked it. Point being, i do think in some cases, getting good product out in the rental fleets is like good advertising, and getting someone to actually TRY your product instead of just reading a magazine or internet journalist hack article...well, I think that's a good thing. It all boils down to if the car is good. No one is going to like a Taurus from renting it, to buy it. What grates me though, Chrylser, Toyota, etc are now dumping into fleets but NOOOO we hear nothing about it from the press.

it's the walmart loving mentality of our folks that has perpretrated the cheap at all costs culture. tell walmart to stop selling chinese shit then.

scaper, we're all waiting for more pics of your babe too.........

"You don't need to see my pocketbook to see my sunshine" "You're so hot, even if I didn't get to bask in the glow of your sweet sunshine, I bet I could still get *hot* in your shade". :rolleyes: seriously stace, post your mug, we wanna see how much of a babe you are!

Bucik going to a 4/50 warranty is a HUGE step in the right direction. Saturn, GMC, and Pontiac at a minimum need to go that way too.

yes there are all those outside forces, but still, sooner or later, either the workers accept compensation cuts to keep their jobs or all the jobs go bye bye. The external factors will not be fixed anytime soon. It comes down to, do you want the job or not. Its a cute idea to stand up for a matter of principle, but the numbers laugh at principles and will make the decision. Fix what you can now that is under your control. property tax's, school tax's, real estate, rent costs are influenced by so many other things there is no possible way to recitify them to allow GM to continue to prop up an arbitrary (not market set) compensation level. As for the global economy, there is no way to stop it, it can be tempered. But reality is we cannot sustain ourselves with only our own resources and knowledge. Isolationism would be our quick and nasty downfall on so many fronts.

prices on the cars are simply too damn high. the problem is, folks won't pay big stickers for domestic cars and far too many idiots drop huge coin for the imports. that alone necessitates rebates off too high MSRP's to prop up negative equities and still be under a mythical loan value. I like what Mitsubishi has for warranty 5/60 BTB and 10/100 PTRN. Even if you hate their cars, the warranty is great. Thing is, their cars don't need the big warranties because they hold up quite well. I know Hyundai and Kia have what are seemingly good warranties on the surface, but I'm not sure if they really are any good beyond the asterisk. I still would be leery of a Korean car, even with their warranties. Yes, rebates, cheap interest, reasonable msrp's, high lease residuals, warranties, we want it all. Free maintenance items or cost efficient scheduled maintenance plans like Saturns will be huge in the future. I envision a day where if you want to lease, you will roll your lease payment, entertainment and safety subscriptions, and maintenance all into one bill like Saturn can, for worry free, hassle free, customer friendly driving. Folks want less hassle and easier to comprehend pricing structures. Simply put, the cost of cars is oputpacing most average folks' ability to earn enough to pay for them. The upper middle and upper classes seem to get over the hump enough to buy 2-3 luxury vehicles (i.e. no domestics) in their household and they are the ones being so picky and causing the classlike stratification in the market. These are the folks all the car mags write to appeal to. Not the average low to middle class folks.

i am an 80's pop/metal child mostly. If anyone wants to listen to NEW music that is a definite nostalgia trip try to find WIG WAM- Hard to be a Rock and Roller SHA-BOOM! The Race Is On you can get soundbytes and reviews at melodicrock.com I am dead serious when I say its like going back in time. Polished power pop or glam like you never left the 80's or early 90's. Highly recommended. If anyone here likes Rick Springfield, be sure to listen to the relatively new cd Shock/Anger/Denial/Acceptance. He's still excellent even though he's a fossil. I like other stuff like Diana Krall (as in "Diana, krall over to me on yo knees) and some country. I just don't get time to listen these days.

after speaking with the Ford dealer today, Ford is stepping up to the plate with AGGRESSIVE programs on the 500/freestyle and who knows, maybe I'll have one by the end of the week? the manufacturers must be scared shitless about another bad month and I'm guessing Ford is getting proactive and is gonna stimulate buisness on their slow moving non-truck models. either that, or the arrival of the Fusion means 'gotta dump the chicago trio'. I don't care. 3 rows of seats so i can shove the moth-in-law in the back.

and stace, you could humor the group and show us your sunshine.

scaper, she's insanely frickin hot, but I can only see two pics. I almost gotta see more to make sure. :)

all of a sudden i am getting images of someone's bent over grandma with hip waders on. i suppose if you're a gay male you're seeing a grandpa with hip waders now. everytime i hear gloria estefan sing 'coming out of the dark' its kinda like, 'is that the theme song for coming out of the closet?'

I can't say I disagree at all. The magazines all have become quite elitist, mostly to appease the readers who have big $$$$ to spend on cars, whereas the low-middle class (i.e. average everyday folks) can't even buy a new Impala without figuring out 'how in the hell do i pay for this'? I think Road and Track has remained relatively objective and hasn't turned into a big yuppie book. Motor trend used to be very populist but has turned into a yuppie bent now too, although I think they're actually quite readable. they aren't as pompous as Car and Driver. Car and Driver is the worst these days. Its like the editors there are a bunch of spoiled children and they all sit around talking about their new toys (i.e. cars they get to test drive). But the worst offenders are the half assed internet journalists. Nearly every one of them is a pain in the ass. James healy is a good read on USA Today, but hacks like the jobs, Lienerts etc. need to turn in their badges. I do think the time is right for the everyday folks magazine. I mean seriously, Car and Driver doesn't even test vehicles anymore that most normal folks buy. C/D didn't really roast Ford for the Freestyle or 500, which I acutally think is an example of where they were complimentary and fair in their review. But try to search any web sites or magazines for any past road tests on say, a Saturn Vue or Ford Escape 4 cylinder 5 speed and what do you find? Almost nothing. Cause cars like that aren't good enough for them.

yeah, I saw that article. I see a lot of Camry's in the Hertz lot by my house. Infinitis, Mazda's, no Accords yet, but Honda must succumb eventually. Let me get back to this simple point, if the car is good, then it shouldn't make a hill of beans if it gets sold to fleets. The ultimate point is, have great product and refresh it and remake it often so you continually end up with product folks line up to buy. you don't have to revert to taurus style dumping to keep the factoriues running because its less of a loss to run the factory and dump the cars at a loss than to pay out for an idle plant. Part of the reason we bought our car was we rented it one time on a trip and really liked it. I want to see the press spin on this.

funny that blu posted this topic. I thought i was close to selling my car, so I went shopping this weekend. Keep in mind I need something with room and practicality so I've narrowed it to Nissan Quest, Fords 500 and Freestyle, Mits Galant In fact I emailed the Ford dealer by my house about a new leftover 2005 500 base model all wheel drive they marked down AGAIN to an absurdly low price. The Galant only exists due to it still has a good combination of power, sporty handling, nice seats, and lots of room in the front for two and in the back for the kid. Oh sure, there's other cars I'd rather be driving, but for what I think I can get for what i pay and what I need, these are the leading candidates. I don't care for some occasional sluggishness in the Fords and the Quest reliability worries me, but honestly, it seems like there are VERY few cars that don't have some sort of glaring weakness. I wouldn't mind a smaller car, actually with high gas prices, but its hard to go small when you have a kid and the associated stuff. I would love a GTO 6-speed or some other fun car like a GXP GP or something. With some of those kinds of cars, they sometimes are too pricey and maybe in some cases impractical for me (2 dr, RWD only, etc.). The Impala SS and Gradn Prix GXP I would really like but they are simply not priced for the middle markets. They are too expensive. Go price some new 06's and you'll see the whole 'value pricing' thing is a big farce. I like the new Fusion and Milan, but I already have a low slung, nice looking, semi-cushy, smaller mid size car with a decent interior but I really just need something different right now. Space and utility are kindof my thing right now. And the 500 is almost cheaper right now anyways. if i need to go cheap I'll just get a vue 4 cylinder 5 speed, or keep what i've got. i think if i could get my fun car, I'd be fine with a BMW 3 series with manual and sport pkg. or a 5 series, although both now are ugly. other cars considered -fusion/milan -mazda6 hatch -maxima/altima -escape/tribute -element -jetta and passat 06 -ion (2.4 with 5 sp manual), cobalt, focus, mazda3, hhr, pt cruiser -impala, malibu, GP, G6, LaCrosse -used S60 manual, X-type manual, 9/3 or 9/5 manual, or aurora -another aztek because I can't find any other cars out there with a decent comfortable ride, lots of space and utility, normal mpg and nice interior for not an arm and a leg.

viper, that GXP pic at the beginning of the forum is a really nice looking sunfire. I think you would be on the path to duplicating that look with the matching body kit as was suggested, and i also thought GM or someone offered supercharger kits for the ecotec? beyond that, it would get darn costly and would make more sense to just pony up for the Cobalt SS with Stage 1 or II upgrades and enjoy that.

like my coworker with her xterra, LOL