regfootball

product is what people want, not marketing product arises from actual need. marketing in most cases only exists to make up for piss poor product. marketing is nothing more than a whole bloated industry designed to mind f-ck people into buying crap they otherwise don't want or need in most cases, at least as far as how its evoloved in the USA. sadly, marketing is now needed in our US economy to keep it moving. Imagine the crap you would buy if you weren't bombarded by marketing 24/7. There is much debate today as to whether we are now overmarketing and whether excessive marketing repels customers. GM is stuck having to rely too much on marketing. the products need to be improved and rely less on marketing to get healthier. the product first and foremost has to be right. you can market the crap out of a BAD product, and if you sucker folks into buying it, they'll only be oeven more pissed off when they buy the inferior product and after awhile grow to hate it and the company that made it, even more and more.

not two comparable items. not everyone can afford a vermont teddy bear. vermont teddy bears are not everyman items like cars are. cars have intense price competition. if someone thinks a nice teddy bear is cute, and they are loaded, they can part with 80 bucks. GM can't spit out sloppy LeSabres and throw a 75 grand price tag on them. Plus teddy bears don't have safety regulations and all that other crap that the auto industry has.

well, maybe if one of those guys on the floor works his ass off, gets prmoted into management, works his way up the ladder, gets more education, and makes a personal investment in the company in terms of buying stock or unpaid overtime or whatever sure, then reward that person with a board seat.

we have reached a new low in human evolution. people are defending the design of a CAMRY!!!!!!!!!!! "we're done as a society"

LOL! exactly!

ugly is only one component of the equation. the engine is average in terms of output. My God, not even 140 lb. ft of torque in a PERFORMANCE CAR (Si)? at what 6500 rpm? they only place where having that useless of a powerband would benefit you in on the track. And last I checked we spend almost all our driving on the street.

that's still more torque than the Si, isn't it?

wake me please those camry pics put me to sleep. hey fly can you have one of those fancy alarm clock radios sent to my house to wake me up?

my plan for fixing GM is much simpler -much better styling across the board. take a couple brands and ditch the midwestern cruiser car motif and go euro. tighten those panel gaps more. -enormously better interior designs and quality including decent seats and really nice plastic. this is GM's single greatest flaw still. -better engines and powertains across the board including ditching all the 'underteched' pushrod v6's, even if only for marketing reasons. -more feature content and whizbang features per car -lower msrp's or at least correlation between MSRP and sell price. -getting the albatross (unions and supplier contracts) off their backs that keep them from flexible and profitable manufacturing HERE in the US. -educating car salesmen on how to treat customers instead of spending their time being asses, smoking in public (how inviting is that to the general public), and not studying up on their product. and finally Jill Wagner in a tight stretchy LOW cut top selling GM cars instead of Mercury's.

by limited in appeal i mean, NARROW demographic as opposed to BROAD demographic. overextended but overly image conscious twentysomethings, ricers, and hybrid ecoweenies who couldn't wait for the Prius may buy the car in droves. hey, its a decent car. it just completely lacks overwhelming credentials to be CAR OF THE YEAR.

i guess if we all magincally revert to age 28 and just saw 'fast and furious' for the 28th time.

sure, because i was there with calipers and stuff to measure the gaps myself.

the ford motor is questionable. the hemi that made the list should have been the SRT version, although the lesser hemi has DOD. imagine if GM had gone ahead with the twin turbo intercooled HF 3.6. I think that would be an excellent STS and CTS motor. And seeing the nasty weight distribution on the STSv, they could benefit from a little less weight under the hood.

Best Interstate Cruiser Cadillac DTS no reason to be ashamed about that. although the Lienerts and Jobs of the world must be in a huff because some toyota didn't make it.

why would i want a crappy ricer civic when the Mazda3 is a classy appealing car. push it all you want. the new civic is ordinary, cheesy, and limited in appeal.

want one so bad

watching adult movies on this thing would be strange.

maybe someday we'll have to get a sheryl crow shrine going -in the lounge.

excuses

rotflmao!!!!!!!!!!!

i am saying that most americans need or want a car with more substance under the hood and at much fewer rpm than this thing. i stick by my earlier statement that one big reason this car won was because it was offered also as a hybrid. take that away and the merit of this car line becomes extremely ordinary. it offers no distinct superiority in engines, performance, styling, packaging, room, price, ANYTHING. MT was simply humping the hybrid bandwagon and throwing a bone at the ricers so they could lower their subscriber demographic.

LOL

what bothers me about why the 3800 was so celebrated is because it was 'reliable' as if to suggest 'its rare that a GM engine was ever relaibel so man that this thing can last more than 80,000 miles without teardown really kicks ass!' as if doing such warranted a medal or trophy or something. Like no one would expect anyone to build acar with an engine that would last awhile. i mean, the asian competitors built reliable engine after reliable and complex engine and we have celebrate the fact that GM can build ONE stinking engine that outlives your payment book? In deifying this average engine we've also come to include suggestions that the thing was a miracle performer also. It was a PRETTY GOOD engine that unfortunately was left out to pasture and became dated a few years ago. I've driven like 10 cars with the 3800 or some variant and I just never saw what any of the fuss was about. The good mpg was more than offest by its slow revving, growly nature, and huge footprint under the hood. GM move on please. why this thing is in the Lucerne speaks volumes about what sort of KNUCKLEHEADS are planning product at GM and the Buick division. STILL.

point is, its gone soon and maybe then GM can move on, and up in the v6 world. it was great in its day. by 2000 or so it was not up to par.