regfootball

the lambda floors are too high for van use. maybe chevy will someday offer an epsilon 2 van. lighter and more functional.

i sat in a 3door today. nice interior. the center stack items are too low IMHO. the plastics and everything are alright, not anyting to complain about really. the shifter is really nice. gauges are nice, possibly the best in class. why are people not giving saturn props for its interiors? overall, the interior is a good competitor for the top cars in the class. makes the civic interior look stupid (not like it didn't do that itself). sort of a really claustrophobic cabin. low roof. high beltline. very little glass. horrible view out the back. don't buy this car if you like to see what is going on behind you or to the side rear of you. i really didn't feel comfortable in it. the cabin felt intrusive. doesn't appear to have much for cargo space. i thought it seemed tight on space. i had the seat all the way back and i had to keep the seat way down to feel like i had headroom. cabin width wasn't terrible. i will have to sit in the 5 door at the auto show to see if its as cramped feeling. this does not have the appeal of a volume seller. it does have appeal of for a special, picky buyer. It doesn't seem to have the capacity of the VW's or the mazda. however as it is, it will be a nice alternative for those who may be shopping the volvo or the minis, etc. it's definitely not a me-too car, which is odd, because it sells so huge over the pond. it was fricking cold and snowy out so i didn't test drive it. i can understand the appeal of the car, it's nice.

you can get a very loaded kia for about 25 real world pricing. leather, dvd, everything. most of the minivans on the market base out real world in the 18-22 range. even toyota whores the sienna out now for closer to 20 than 25 to start. you can't touch a lambda for less than 26 real world i bet. GMC ads here list starting prices on the acadia at 29 grand. An Acadia with very few options is quickly up at 32,33k and add leather or anything and bam 35 is no problem and they are getting those prices in the real world. The Mazda CX9 starts real world in the 28,29 range and has comparable pricing to the lambadas across the board. 276hp in the lambda with its baby fat = 250hp in the other vans. comparable performance. i am not sure what price point the 4.0 in the dodge becomes an option.

-there are too many dealers, GM wants to downsize the dealer network, but overprotective franchise laws are in place and such that prevent proper downsizing. also, this is part of the reason they cannot kill brands. catch 22. it's not the customer's fault that a dealer has so much overhead they worry about selling only 35 cars in a month. the dealer should trim the fat. the owner is in it for real estate and makes the profit off that so i don't want to hear them piss and moan about not being able to sell cars in a tough economy. trim the fat cats salaries, also while we are at it. what a lot of customers might want today is a sales experience direct to factory without money sucking dealers. why can't we have that? why do we need so many/such huge dealers at all? I would rather spec out my car on line and order it straight from detroit and not have to pay the extra overhead it costs to hold a local inventory, pay a receptionist, advertising, etc. the customer has forced the automakers to trim way too much fat from engineering design and manufacturing. it's time to trim the fat from the sales side. sales, retail, and marketing are way too much of the cost of the car. -GM maybe should have given lambda to chevy first however they rolled out the lambdas with product to fill 3 models first and gradually ramping up production on an unproven product, then adding the second plant for a more proven design at higher volume. to sell the chevy first would have set lower price points and then to try to move up the prices on the other 3 would be tough. this way, they set the price points on the other 3 and then come in the bottom side with the bargain chevy. -GM is at fault for not keeping up with the equinox and trailblazer keeping them fresh but that is a management fault. the lambda is not to be at the expense of the TB/EQ and vice versa. GM simply needs to freshen product faster. its not the lambdas fault that chevy can't keep up on a regular schedule refreshing the rest of their product. -you don't want the traverse probably because it will not sell as well in canada as it will in the US. in the US it will clean up. it is right to say chevy needs to have more smaller offerings that have more style and design and get better FE and smaller pricetags.

the white elephant in the room is that over the bush era (not blaming, just merely coinciding) real wages have declined while expenses and costs for taxes, housing, utilities, food, fuel, health care, education etc. have gone up exponentially. the only way out of the mess is for people's wages to go up at a faster rate while prices stay level. if that happens, people won't have to default on their homes, and maybe they can cut away at their debts. the 10% chosen ones in this country are piling on the wages, especially if mommy and daddy are super earners, but in single income or dual not so great wage earner households, they have no power to keep up with prices. the wage inequity in this country is our biggest problem.

BULL$h! WHERE IS YOUR PROOF OF THIS. My ford dealer cannot keep up with demand.

2 row, cheaper price. lambda is about 5 grand min. more expensive across the board. Some new edges were selling for less than 22 grand during the 07 model year run.

oddly enough, i always see R class quite frequently around here.

the outlook needs a euro carlpeter infusion in the exterior and interior design (think vue meets insignia) and needs some unique options (redline, sports suspension, unique audio options). the interior is most of what is holding the outlook back, that and lack of ads. a more thoroughly saturnized outlook would be the best competitor to the princess of the press, the cx-9.

Gee, i should go ask my boss right now. He has an Acadia (18-19 mpg, by the way). I'll show him the traverse and the enclave pictures. Then i will ask him, "would you have bought the chevy?" "would you have bought the enclave?" here is what he will say (and i can guarantee this or something like it) "why would i want a chevy? that's bottom end" "why would i want the buick? it's not trucky enough it looks like a princess car"

your scenario about johnny dealer 'losing the battle' only applies if segment demand is eclipsed by GM overproducing. CUV's are enfuego and GM call sell every lambda produced right now at great prices and profit and fast turn. the customer surely does not give a FF if your chevy dealer loses a sale to the saturn dealer. the customer may prefer the look of the outlook to the chevy. etc. GM's flaw in the past has been overproducing and putting out bad product. will the traverse flood the market? doubt it. CUV demand is insatiable for the foreseeable future. sedans are being cannibalized and the CUV segment is booming. in my shopping, the outlook is the same price as the acadia similarly equipped. now i would expect chevy to be lower. but its a chevy. more chevys will be sold. less rare=cheaper and more common. GMC will get denali and v8 options and other things about it to maintain pricing and keep volume moderate but sales profitable. Buick also. not everyone will have the Enclave or Acadia. so if the product is top level and in demand which is the case here, GM will be ok and in the end its just the greedy dealer pissing and moaning. I don't see the dealer pissing and moaning because they took a sale from the lame ass Pilot or Highlander. Lambda is the bomb. ride the lambda wave. Be a good dealer and focus your sale on more than just price. Service, friendly sales process, etc. all add into the equation. GM is making it really easy for you to make money on Lambdas by making them so good. Why bite the hand that feeds. Ride the wave.

i thought gxp was getting the 436hp mill from the base vette? this for me means no stick with a basic GT or the v6. So that rules out stick for me. I may have to consider if the g8 is feasible for me. I wanted a stick and the GXP will be too pricey. I can live with the automatic i guess, but then it doesn't matter to me whether its v6 or v8. It will become a price dependent decision. I wish the v6 had DI. Any chance the 09 v6 has DI? A v6 DI with AWD stick would be the way i would be happy with my G8. I think the RWD only may mean I will have to cross it off the list as I really want AWD in my next vehicle. but i really love the G8.

some here ( you know who you are) want to piss and fricking moan but the fact is GM sells 4 desirable lambdas in all its dealers, and all are superior to the piece of $h! highlander and pilot. my cube neighbor at work, 2 seats away, bought an Aura last week. No way he buys Chevy. He's a Saturn fan. NFW a brand snob buys a chevy. Some people like Buicks. Some like the trucky image of GMC. I likely cannot afford the Enclave. The GMC I like. The Saturn I like, even if I do not like its interior 100% compared to the acadia. Now i see the traverse and its the one I like the most at least in pics but I would be happy with the outlook and acadia as well.

i hardly think the 4 different versions is a problem. we are talking about the hottest segment (CUV's) in the market for the foreseeable future. The Buick and GMC will still sell. the Chevy will sell like hotcakes. It still is a benefit even if it only sells 24k a year or so to have them in the saturn channel as well. GM will then have the lambda available in it's entire dealer network which gets the product in more dealers than any other company in the USA. What saturn does need to do now however, is some fixes to make it unique. A redline package, paddle shifters, let Opel design an appearance makeover on the soft bits of the interior. lower the suspension a bit, give it a unique and aggressive color palette. unique audio and nav options. everyone bitches about rebadges, but if th product is good, then its not an issue. hell, even VW is rebadging chryco vans now. the mits outlander is a citroen and peuguot in europe.

dont stop believin

or camry, or a jetta...... http://thehollywoodextra.blogspot.com/2008...-acura-tsx.html at least we know where honda is trimming expenses these days. they must have laid off the design department.

i like to think of it as a Yaris coupe or a tercel.......

you have never toted kids and kid gear have ya? the reason this vehicle type exists has more to do with space than anything else. vw knew the sharan would bomb here. people need to take everything with them plus 4 or 5 people when they travel. strollers, packnplay, coolers, toys, trikes and bikes, beach chairs, no point to buying a vehicle you cannot use to haul all your stuff. if people are gonna drive nerdwagons (one box vehicles) then they want to go all out and go size XXL on them. meanwhile, back at headquarters, all minivans pretty much get the same real world mpg regardless of size. that mazda mpg had no end user benefit in terms of TCO compared to the larger caravans. gas mileage, insurance, payments, all probably added up to the same or more TCO for the mazda. yet, many grand caravan owners speak lovngly of its superb highway mpg. honda even got a clue and wised up and made the odyssey real sized after the first pretender. tundra too. the bigger sin is to buy something that you find out you cannot use the way you wanted. if its too small you've wasted a lot of resources driving something that doesn't suit your needs or someone has built something you end up having to trash because its no use to you.

mazda mpv GM vans ....... size matters.

here's a question. i wonder if car and driver had tested this VW instead of the GC in their recent minivan slugfest, if it would have mysteriously ranked higher.

this pickup reminds me of "IT'S PAT"

some folks are saying this will cannibalize the tahoes and suburbans but the real truth is folks are downsizing in droves and the lambdas are the size and feature set that allows fans of those large vehicles to downsize, yet still retain the best traits of them. in that regard, GM is keeping buyers in the fold because those buyers would have defected to other brands. this is why we have 4 lambdas. they will replace the market share they lose and keep it in house. this is a proactive move, to make these lambdas all awesome.

how is the traverse bland? yeah the highlander and pilot are atrocious. the traverse is really nice! what is your basis of comparison!? what is your level of expectation for this thing?

pretty SHAWDdy attempt at freshening up an already struggling car.

note......read the specs on GM's media site. Traverse can be had with heated/COOLED seats. Also, cargo cap. behind third row is 26.9 cf......an uptick from the other lambadas? 6459 GVWR = suv tax break? curb weight= 4720 / 2141 (FWD) 4925 / 2234 (AWD) Direct injection standard Bosch 8.0 Chassis Controls: ABS / ETC / ESC w/rollover mitigation Key competitors: Toyota Highlander; Honda Pilot; Ford Explorer BLUETOOTH (no voice command of you IPOD though, jerks) get that uplander now baby GM needs to make smartslide power operated.