regfootball

wow. car got HUGE. what's the purpose of the RL now? interior looks starchy. exterior looks better in these pics, except for the food slicer in the front. and only a 12.5 cu ft trunk? WTF?

well PCS, i depends if those pushing the end of personal transport and all this walkable communities stuff, taking your cars away, etc....how is one supposed to get around and see it? MASS TRANSIT? lol

neighbor has an SX4 hatch and LOVES IT. the sx4 gets nav std for 09 i think at a 16k price point. ballsy move. wish GM had a clue like that.

VW is nice to offer a ballsy 5 as standard, but really this cars mission would be better served with a 2.0 160hp 4 cyl as standard with a 6 speed manual. Rabbit should have a wolfsburg option like the jettas get then, for a cheap turbo.

the vans are chryslers bread and butter product. they seriously screwed the pooch on bad styling and horrible interiors. they need to fix that last month already or their top product is forever forgotten. The LX's do not have even mid class interiors, even with the new halfway updates. Look at the 300's leather quality for example, or the terrible dishwater gray and dismal black plastics. Improved, yes, but not yet 'desirable'. When a car like the 300 whose styling has fallen off the trendy map, the way to still sell the car is too give it a whizbang interior. So compared to the domestic competition, the LX interiors might be credible, but in importville, none of these cars will get a second look in that regard. All the LX's i see on lots are 2.7's (why?) and hemis still. Worse, Chryslers v6 the torqueless one has not had updates for several years now. While Nissan puts 270+ and now even Mazda 270+ in their volume v6's, and look at GM with their direct injection v6's....close to 300hp or more. Not to mention there is no 6 speed auto for the LX cars either with the v6. So its safe to say they are behind the curve now, and its not like you get an mpg benefit out of it. AWD? Shop the lots, where are they? ALMOST NEVER on the v6's. Worse yet, you gotta bundle unwanted options to get em. In order to get an AWD 300, i believe you need leather. That's bull$h!. A simple 3.5 tan cloth 300 with a sunroof and AWD? Not possible. Much less to be able to find one even if you could. Had Chrysler made AWD a standalone it would have made the most sense, and they should ditch the 2.7, redo the 3.5 to get real hp out of it, and attach it to a modern tranny (6 speed). Diesel would be nice but Chrysler would be far better off to get the gas powertrains they have competitive first. One of the main reasons people avoid the 300 like the plague now is because of the rep it got when introduced. That thing got a hemi? Yeah, still does, a big fuel sucking hemi. Doesn't matter if the v6 sells more now, nobody knows that. Public perception is that the 300 is a big v8 hood car that drinks fuel. Chrysler has done nothing to remake the image of that car, nor take advantage of the ability to sell its wet weather AWD advantage in snow climates. Everyone still thinks the 300 is a v8 RWD burnout machine to cruise the hood with in your jewry.

trip this wkd., 3 people and FULL trunk in the 500. running on a fresh oil change and some fuel system cleaner and tires properly inflated (but prob not to 36 psi like i like) there= 231 miles @ 9.0 gallons = 25.66 mpg (with leadfoot wife driving, most often exceeding posted speeds by 10-25 mph). return= 225.7 @ 8.8 gallons (yet to verify) = 25.64 mpg (a large portion of this trip was stop and go and gridlock on the interstate from wefest and brainerd international raceway traffic). I figured I was on pace for 28 or so with me driving, but it all went out the window when this slowed up everyone..... I would say the owner of this vehicle got had it been just me with high psi and no stop and go, I would have gotten 28+ i think.

i like the g6 coupe. the GXP version i even like a lot.

the aveo5 has some surprising upgrades. I hope GM doesn't try to price it out of the market. I think its cargo bay is small too.

oh no! that sucks! hope you get your ride back soon!

there is a couple things chrysler could do right now to help. immediate interior gut and redo on the vans, as well as an exterior revision. update the 300/charger interiors, and update the v6 and make it the primary powerplant (85-90% production) in those models, and drop the price, and get the fuel economy up. make AWD availabel in a greater percentage. get a small car in the showroom now. rebadge another makers vehicle if that is the quickest path.

well, they just needed to make better platforms and keep them fresher

if a lot of folks would be willing to get off their high horse and accept all of GM cars being on a front bias platform (except caddies and camaros and vettes) GM could build most of their stable of cars and stuff off very few platforms. GM needs to commit to versatile front bias/all wheel optional platforms, maybe in 4 sizes. the difference in quality of the vehicles made on these could be made up for with suspension specs. i.e. cheap shocks vs. expensive shocks plus magnaride or whatever. As I was test driving the Aura last weekend it occured to me, 'this would be a killer platform for a right sized crossover'. But, we have lambdas (which are perfect size in their own regard) and theta, which is the equinox which makes for a good sized vehicle but GM has never got the equinox totally right. then for example if the next gen impala and next gen 9-5 are built on say a larger epsilon platform, the impala obviously is not tricked out like the Saab would be. but you see what i mean. Toyota is gonna sell assloads of those freaky venzas and you think 'its a tall camry wagon'. So, why doesn't chevy have a 'tall malibu wagon'? we get the traverse, sure, but not everyone needs that much car. A 'tall malibu wagon' would compete with the edge and journey nicely i think. even look at the compact segment. the cobalt is a small compact. a sentra is a large compact. Gm should have a platform where they can build larger and smaller compacts to compete across those classes. i just hope GM continues to work on consolidating platforms where it makes sense and investing a lot in making each platform really good. I still don't think they are there yet.

interiors and dated pushrod v6/4sp autos the interiors i was reminded of after riding in someone's blazer over lunch today.

zeta's weight is its downfall.

a slide out cupholder that happens to get in the way of your working the stickshift to the manual tranny. to be honest, the cupholder behind the brake lever does not bother me. having to have an armrest added, does. the lack of audio input is unforgivable in the 7-8 years since the ipod was introduced, but as i mentioned before, the real deal breaker is the high engine rpm and drone at freeway speeds. the lack of attention on the armrest and cupholder is a prime example of GM not caring enough about detail though. Another example of how they will not go the distance, only part way.

Journey has lots of positives. Incredibly functional cabin, nice exterior. But if the Edge and Taurus X exist and they both have sync, then a journey will always be below them to me. From what i am seeing the higher level Journeys are maintaining their prices pretty well.

suburbanz hav B PILLURZ

saturday i was car shopping and went to a saturn dealer. it was very busy. i went to the chevy store across the street right after that and the salespeople were all sitting on their ass, there was no one there.

bing!

ONE THING THOUGH it would look out of place to be driving the Cobalt, and wearing the gold chain. That's a look you can only really pull off adequately with a genuine camaro (or trans am).

GTI has a couple demerits. I like the GTI (was admiring one over noon) but...... pricey compared to a basic Jetta, especially since the wolfsburg is several grand cheaper and way cheaper to lease....GTI or GLI lease is out of my budget. GTI is at a significant disadvantage to larger more functional vehicles for the same price. For example, a 28 grand GTI is hard to justify as a second family car when i could get a seriously nice Edge new or lightly used for that price. The GM product has advantages over the pricey GTI because of price and the fact that i can tap 2k in GM card dollars. Astra is far cheaper with new leasing deals and pricing adjustments, as is the Vibe GT is cheaper too. HHR SS has sim performance, but holds a huge functional advantage and saves $$$ to boot as well. Mazdaspeed is cheaper than a GTI by a little bit. Not sure I like mazda's anyways. Rather feminine. The sterile German car thing gets to me also. VW's are tidy, but rather unimaginative on the inside.

ok here x2 but remember, you always can count on the people's republic of california to eff a common sense plan like that up.

election is coming up, duh. the people profiting from high gas prices found big resistance and pressure from forces when it went north of 3.50. they were reminded not to bite the hand of the american public that feeds. they were reminded that all sorts of legislation would be put in place to end their gravy train if they didnt do it themselves. who's gonna buy a car to use the gas they sell when the price is too high. so gas will drop....and cheney and bush and their buddies will still have plenty of time to make out like bandits before they go.

cool thread.! GM and Ford should really let their US customers know how well they do in Europe.

well, i've driven a buttload of stuff now. a few left to drive. a few i want to drive again, but basically i like my car i have (500) and would be plenty happy with a new taurus or sable. that said, an edge or flex or taurus x would be fine too. the edge maybe is a leader due to its style factor. The Taurus X impressed me a lot for its athleticism and car like manners for a 3 row crossover. I don't even really mind the focus that much (I've had two separate 08 focus this year each for a week as loaners) and its a pretty good little commuter car. that said i have some GM car dollars also that are burning a hole in my pocket. more on that shortly. VW was high on my list but between arrogant VW salespeople and the fact that the Jetta (and Rabbit) sedan is really the only affordable product.....sportwagens with options start to even get high.......that, and i am just not VW material. not urban enough, or thin enough, or metrosexual enough. whatever the case, i just don't think its me. I probably should just try a mazdaspeed 3 just to make sure I am not missing out on something dandy. If the right Magnum or 300 came along used with 3.5 and AWD for cheap i may be snagged. I've driven an Accord and Odyssey and to be honest the chassis feels a bit light and the handling in the accord was good. the odyssey is overrated. it holds a corner good but the cabin is too loud and the chassis feels weak and not isolated enough for this type of vehicle. The accord creeps me out anyways. I do give it credit for lots of room. I can get a super deal on a used Endeavor and they hit the bogey with me on many areas, space, handling and ride, comfort, cargo, function....all that. big warranty left even on a used one. But premium gas and lesser than desired mpg make me pause on them. The seats in the bendover are some of the most comfy out in SUV land and the handling is pretty excellent, especially for an SUV. The fact that no one wants one might make a good deal for me. i've even scoured the net for used Freestar/Monterey vans. Bad mpg is their stigma, and they are not refined like newer vehicles, but they offer a ton of space and all that for cheap. And my wife would have a great time loading up the back on Lowes and Home Depot trips. I've considered Caravans and Quests but i just could not get a caravan I dont think and Quest now is just weird to me even though i almost got one 3 years ago and then swtiched and got the 500. so, the problem with Fords has been that I am leasing and i got a great deal on my 500, this time around i do not think i can get equivalent value. I may be forced to downgrade and go some other make.....GM. LOL. My sales dude suggested a Fusion to me, but to be honest, every time i have driven either the FUsion or the Mazda6 I am underwhelmed. I just don't get much out of it. Its really just a mediocre creepy car.....maybe the 010 Fusion is improved. The 09 Escape i drove with the revised v6 and 6 speed was pretty good.....so the fusion will benefit from that. So coming back to GM, the products that have wowed me......initially i liked the astra and still do. but the high engine rpm and lack of power in general is a complete dealbreaker. I could live with no sync and no armrest and no cupholder and all those flaws but the engine is not sufficient. but the best part of being interested in an astra was really being able to drive the Aura. I have come to really like the Aura 4 cylinder. Great engine, the rest of the car feels great. I would like more tire, and more grunt off the line. Maybe an 09 Aura XR 4 cylinder with alum wheels and wider tires and 6 speed auto will fix all that (can't wait to drive the 6 speed and paddle shifters!). I will not consider an Aura XR because i dont think the price or mpg or any of that is a real advantage over my just reupping on a taurus. To me the appeal of the Aura is an economical but fun 4 cylinder powertrain option. It really made me appreciate the rest of the package. JUst the right amount of sport and space and all that. If i can swing a great lease deal, i may do it and use my GM card dollars. In comparison, the Malibu sits well also, but is overstyled to me. I like the more athletic look the aura has. I prob need to drive the g8's again, but i think the RWD in my climate keeps them out anyways. The v8 was impressive. i thought the v6 lacked powertrain refinement. Enough that the car just didn't feel all of a piece. It needs a 6 speed auto and some suspension or noise control. The rest of the g8 I love. The g8 styling is TO DIE FOR. Perhaps too pricey for me anyways. I've wanted to try a Vibe GT but haven't yet. I need to do that. The price and packaging is appealing. Wish it had an ecotec instead of a toyota mill. The Saturn Outlook is still desirable to me, but now feels too large. It's just too big for me to drive everyday but I do love its capacity. It really would be an awesome tripmobile. Its fairly athletic in town, too.....but its taller than i think i would want. the cockpit is soooo comfy on this vehicle. Yet the FLex feels as comfy and doesnt ride as goshdarn high as the outlook. So i would get a Flex over an outlook anyways. The car that has made the most favorable impression on me aside from the Taurus X is the Saab 9-3. A base 9-3 without the 17 inch wheels netted a great ride and handling combo to me, this i could tell after driving an Aero v6. The firmer ride of the Aero i think i would enjoy in time after having the base car to break in for awhile. The 4 cyl turbo has no lag and the clutch and shifter were sweet. I've always loved the dash layout. And the looks of the 9-3 improve each year, its a sweet looking car now. The pretty big deal breaker on the Saabs is price of entry and the blg flaw, SMALL BACK SEAT. unforgivable size really. But liked the Saab much better the creepy VW's I drove. Jetta is fine, its the Passat that weirded me out and i think the 9-3 is a better car than the Passat. I should probably drive a Malibu and a CObalt. I should try a Lucerne too because its a sweet looking car, but it would be too pricey for me i think. I gave up any notion of a Grand Prix after piloting my FIL's yesterday for a length of time (right after my Aura test drive). The Aura 4 cyl is a much nicer car than the Grand Prix with the 3800. The W body can go away AFAIAC. The real darkhorse here for me is the HHR aside from the Aura. I really enjoyed my HHR SS test drive and I love the 4 comfortable adult seating positions. there are few very vehicles that accomodate 4 adults so comfortably. I love the cargo area and i love the dash. It really is a cool vehicle. I think i could even like a more basic one with a stick of course. Fold flat seat! Rebates are huge on the HHR right now and it might even make the turbo affordable. The turbo is sweet and relaxed. I think that the HHR SS is a great road vehicle and in town is very agreeable and docile as well. And I am sure my kid would absolutely think the little truck is a HOOT. For GM, do i wait for 09's ? (USB and bluetooth) or take advantage of 08 deals? One reason i really want the Ford is sync, pretty damn badly actually. Anyways, for GM, the Aura and HHR really do it for me as far as affordable rides. Aside from whatever used bargain presents itself, talking new, the question is, spend more for the more expensive fords or go for the smaller leaner GM cars? Both the Aura and HHR really impress me a LOT. I'm a ford guy tho, every ford with the 3.5 impresses me a lot too. I've gotten used to higher riding cars, so the Aura is a low rider to me, yet it feels comfy and sporty.