G. David Felt

Bolt has been stated to be below 7 sec in 0-60, everyone that has driven it says it feels like a 5 or 6 sec car to 60, so this Reality FWD CUV is equal to a Vaporware RWD 4 door Sedan.

Cool, I hope GM is listening as they should be offering it in their lineup also.

Looks like a compass, hopefully they will have a plug-in hybrid or pure ev in this thing. No need for the Diesel.

What are your thoughts if it was a pure RWD / AWD EV Pony car? 315 mile battery pack with 420HP and 560lbs of torque from Zero all the way to 10,000 RPM! http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=8&products_id=300&osCsid=lp4a56n4mkff5ujfs17hap8805 This would be awesome to have in either a Mustang or Camaro pony car.

I understand the point your making, but the Tesla 3 is Vaporware at this point. In 2018 or 2019 when ever they actually get delivered, then you can compare them. At this point lets talk about what is reality. BOLT, Leaf, etc. there are plenty of current auto's to compare that are actually at the point of being built like the BOLT or in production like the Leaf. We actually have EPA numbers to compare rather than vaporware statements.

Glad you love your new car. You have your work cut out for you as over the weekend on my road trip I just got back from, it was amazing to hear so many millennials talk about Mustang and Camaro as old people cars reliving their youth. I just got back from the greater LA area from the burial of my 96 1/2 year old grandma and it was very interesting to listen to my nieces and nephews and other california youth talk about how dated and out of touch these cars are. One thing that was clear was the styling was still acceptable, but the powertrain thing was just dated. I did hear a very strong debate that GM or Ford could kill it if they took the Tesla S AWD Ludicrous mode power train and put it in one of these pony cars.

Sad, this is one area that is as stated, so out dated. Anyone should be able to sell direct if they want too.

I have seen that the higher the income, the cheaper they become and that not having a rebate in the future will only hurt Tesla Sales. Just read the Tesla Forums and you will see how many comment on how they love their car and got it for the $7500 rebate. The rebate makes a major impact for at least 1/3 of these buyers. 2/3rds of the buyers would get a less featured auto if no rebate and clearly 1/3 like you said would buy no matter what. End result is that the loss of rebates in the future will affect the sales and I expect 1/3 of the Tesla 3 buyers to cancel and ask for a refund when they realize the car is not available for $35,000 before rebate and that the rebate amount of $7,500 is gone. Another 1/3 of these people are looking at getting the car and reselling it at a markup as they think they can profit on it. But by the time Tesla delivers, I doubt the Tesla 3 will have the appeal after so many other OEMs deliver their EV auto. Back on BOLT! In reviewing the colors, I am disappointed that their is no Metallic flake Forest Green or Jade green or any proper Green color to represent that this is an Awesome Green Auto! Wonder Why GM is not offering Green?

Now your just making things up. The base Tesla 3 is RWD auto with unknown 0-60 speed and could actually be slower than the BOLT. Tesla 3 is supposed to have an option for AWD, Ludicriss mode, etc. but since right now it is vaporware with no firm facts, lets keep to the facts and that is that the BOLT is a game changer that no one else has at this time not even your coveted MB.

Apple products suck outside of the graphic design industry and Sheeple who want a company to tell them what they can and cannot do. Tesla is no different and their concept Tesla 3 is as BUTT Ugly as the S series or the Steroid X. Only thing going for the X is the funky Gull Wing Doors. I take a Bolt every day over the Tesla 3 concept. Hopefully instead of comparing apples to oranges, you would debate it on a level field like Bolt to Leaf and acknowledge that not everyone likes Apple, wants Apple. Same with Tesla. I am very glad Tesla came along to push the others, but their products do nothing for me and millions of others also. Seem 400,000 Sheeple love to have their money taken from them for years with nothing back but a vapor ware promise.

Found this interesting statistic in the APTA reports: 60-foot Articulated Bus: 37,500 average miles per bus 45-foot “Compo” Bus: 18,750 average miles per bus 40-foot Bus: 48,952 average miles per bus 30-foot Bus: 13,833 average miles per bus Less-than-30-foot Bus: 40,086 average miles per bus Average Transmission lasts about 250,000 miles Average Diesel engine lasts about 3-500,000 miles depending on environment. Less on the east coast, longer in the south. Bus Fleet Management report The National Transit report especially the last two pages are very eye opening when you see what the actual cost is to the taxpayers versus the fares recovered. National Transit Report This report shows that the national average of bus cost for Diesel is $14.43 per mile. Multiple this by the average miles driven per but type above gives you the following: 60-foot - $541,125 per year which seems crazy 45-foot - $270,562.50, still crazy cost 40-foot - $706,377.36 30-foot - $199,610.19 So if I am reading the last couple pages of the National Transit report right, this covers the cost of fuel, maintenance to the bus, wage to the workers, bus driver, mgmt. etc. I would be pushing to go EV as fast as possible as the reduction in maintenance cost alone would be huge I would think. Very cool, that does show good reason to change out the Diesel ASAP on top of the reduction in climate change emissions.

Just found that the APTA does actually keep records on costs. Most current is for 2015, in which 4,434 buses were reported purchased with an average transaction cost per Diesel bus of $504,446. Compared to these EV Buses at $740,000. But the maintenance cost is greatly reduced. 2016 APTA Fact Book You can see all the various reports here: APTA Reports

Just found this 2012 cost of Clean Diesel versus CNG which shows while the CNG buses cost 50-80K moreover a diesel bus, the savings in fuel cost yearly made a huge difference in the overall cost of running them and maintenance cost that went down. http://www.catf.us/resources/publications/files/20120227-Diesel_vs_CNG_FINAL_MJBA.pdf Based on reviewing this report, it would tend to imply with the even lower maintenance cost of electric buses, costs should continue to drop making the slightly higher cost of these EV buses still a bargain.

Granted cost have gone up but this report done in 2004 based on 2000 costs for going to alternative energy had the following listed: http://www.eesi.org/files/eesi_hybrid_bus_032007.pdf Diesel - $300,000 CNG Bus $319,000 Diesel-Electric bus $385,000 I found this story on About Money that shows that in 2011 Chicago Transit Authority was paying $600,000 per Diesel bus. North Carolina in 2011 was paying $714,000 per public Diesel / Electric Hybrid. http://publictransport.about.com/od/Transit_Vehicles/a/How-Much-Does-A-Bus-Cost-To-Purchase-And-Operate.htm So based on this information, I would say $740,000 per EV Bus should recover costs much faster than the Diesel / CNG / Hybrid buses.

I know some love this product line and look, but for me, I have to say it is one of the ugliest I have ever seen.

@Drew Dowdell Thanks for all the help in the new system. @ccap41 Agree, their fast charge system Proterra has that charges from the top of the bus should allow these buses to quickly replace old dated Diesel and then as the Hybrids wear out, be replaced by these. Hopefully in 10 years we will no longer have smelly loud public transit.

Check out the video to see Proterra's Quick Charger system. Very cool in terms of being able to quickly charge and be on your way for a bus. https://youtu.be/toRabte8Qv4

Previous Page Next Page All-electric zero-emission that can finally replace all petro powered buses in North America was unveiled at the Annual APTA (American Public Transit Association) meeting in Los Angeles. Proterra which is known to have launched the first fleet of alternative fuel buses has pushed American engineering with over $130 million in private equity funding to produce a true replacement for all diesel / alternative fuel buses. The Catalyst E2 bus series hit the new milestone at the Michelin's Laurens proving grounds. A 600+ mile passenger free track run translates into 350 miles of continuous real world driving according to Proterra's CEO Ryan Popple. Proterra states that bus fleets said they could fully replace fossil fuel buses if they had buses that could cover routes for a single day up to 350 miles fully loaded with people. Proterra achieved this challenge by using carbon fiber and increasing energy density in the buses battery pack. Proterra battery packs come in choices of 440 KWh to 660 KWh size. The base model bus with a 440 KWh battery pack is what was used to set their new world record for electric distance in a bus. These battery packs are 6x more than the recently announced Tesla S/X P100D. These batteries can handle sustained quick charging plus they can also use the industry standard J1772 CCS plug-in chargers. The first 34 buses are scheduled to be delivered to Foothill Transit Authority in Los Angeles County this fall. Reno, Nevada and 11 other cities including Seattle, Washington will follow in 2017 with taking delivery of these pure long distance electric buses. Proterra expects to deliver over 300 buses in 2017. Safety first was more than just a slogan at Proterra, with this guiding principle, the Catalyst bus was engineered from the beginning as the battery packs are located outside the passenger compartment. The are liquid temperature controlled and incorporated with both active and passive safety features. They are also ruggedized with reinforced enclosures and a safety barrier between the batteries and the passenger compartment. The buses are also build with Mobileye crash avoidance technology and using plenty of impact absorbing carbon fiber materials. Proterra's main competitor is Chinese based BYD with production facilities in California who also aims to deliver EV buses. However, BYD buses will only have a range of 160 to 200 miles compared to Proterra's. California has help fund both Proterra and BYD development, with the requirement that the engineering and production of the buses be done in California. The recent Volkswagen emissions scandal is cited as a reason cities are no longer wanting diesel buses. They also point out that the public is asking for much cleaner transit solutions. Proterra states that customers want a environmentally friendly bus, that does not smell, has much reduced noise pollution, and makes for a more comfortable trip. Their $740,000 buses depending on configuration was a hit at APTA with many transit authorities asking for more information especially on the east coast which has lagged behind moving to cleaner alternative energy buses and runs some of the oldest bus fleets in the country. An example of how quiet these buses are, the Proterra Catalyst is only 57 dB lower than normal conversation at 60 dB much less a diesel bus 72 dB, Formula 1 Racecar 115 dB, and a Jet plane taking off at 140 dB. Per Proterra own web site, efficiency is the goal and with that you have proof in the cost to run an EV bus as follows: Proterra Catalyst - 21.4 MPGe @ average of 19 cents per mile CNG - 3.27 MPG at 74 cents per mile Diesel - 3.86 MPG at 84 cents per mile Hybrid - 4.58 MPG at 63 cents per mile. Quoting Mass Transit Mag who was at the APTA meeting: Compelled by a total cost of ownership significantly lower than fossil fuel-based alternatives, transit agencies across the U.S. agree that diesel’s dominance is waning, giving way to the economic and environmental benefits of battery-electric mass transportation: J. Barry Barker, executive director, Transit Authority of River City: “TARC now has largest deployment of Proterra battery-electric buses east of the Mississippi. Providing both environmental benefits and cost savings, these buses are a symbol of Louisville’s sustainability efforts. We are proud of these positive impacts and to call Proterra a partner, as they pass this key milestone in their journey as the foremost transport innovator in the world.” Doran Barnes, executive director at Foothill Transit: “We just surpassed one million miles of revenue service with our battery-electric Proterra fleet, and we’re looking forward to many more miles to come. Since our first EV bus procurement with Proterra in 2010, we knew that zero-emission buses were the future of mass transit. Now, with the new Catalyst E2, this vision is a reality. We’re excited by the possibilities of an all-electric future.” Jonathan Church, administrator at Worcester Regional Transit Authority (WRTA): “More and more, we’re witnessing our neighbor agencies consider all-electric buses, as they see how well our Proterra buses have weathered some of the ugliest Northeast snow storms. We look forward to continuing our partnership with Proterra as their technology continues to expand within North America.” We have previously covered early versions of Proterra EV buses. These early buses achieved 23 miles per charge and have become popular with inner city routes are being outclassed by this new generation of EV Bus. Proterra states their EV buses to date have logged over 2.5 million miles of trouble free use on city streets, reducing fuel use by 540,000 gallons of diesel and reducing emissions by 10 million pounds of carbon not released into the planet atmosphere. Ryan Popple, CEO of Proterra says, "The question is no longer who will be an early adopter of this technology, but rather who will be the last to commit to a future of clean efficient and sustainable mobility." Proterra believes they have broken down the final barrier to widespread market adoption of EV buses. Proterra, leaving Diesel in the past! Source: Proterra Press Release Press Release on Page 2 PROTERRA CATALYST® E2 SERIES SETS NEW INDUSTRY PRECEDENT WITH A NOMINAL RANGE OF UP TO 350 MILES September 12th, 2016 Highest-performing bus on the road can serve toughest bus routes on a single charge Los Angeles, Calif. – APTA 2016 – September 12, 2016 – Today at the American Public Transit Association (APTA) Annual Meeting, Proterra, the leading innovator in heavy-duty electric transportation, unveiled the newest addition to its fleet of zero-emission vehicles: the Catalyst E2 series, named for its unprecedented Efficient Energy (E2) storage capacity of 440 – 660 kWh. Last month, an E2 series vehicle achieved a new milestone at Michelin’s Laurens Proving Grounds where it logged more than 600 miles on a single charge under test conditions. Its nominal range of 194 – 350 miles means the Catalyst E2 series is capable of serving the full daily mileage needs of nearly every U.S. mass transit route on a single charge and offers the transit industry the first direct replacement for fossil-fueled transit vehicles. The high-mileage Catalyst E2 series joins the existing Catalyst FC and XR series vehicles, designed for circulator and intermediate-mileage routes, respectively. The Future of Transit Arrives: Proterra Customers Across the U.S. Praise Electrified Transport Compelled by a total cost of ownership significantly lower than fossil fuel-based alternatives, transit agencies across the U.S. agree that diesel’s dominance is waning, giving way to the economic and environmental benefits of battery-electric mass transportation: Barry Barker, Executive Director, Transit Authority of River City: “TARC now has largest deployment of Proterra battery-electric buses east of the Mississippi. Providing both environmental benefits and cost savings, these buses are a symbol of Louisville’s sustainability efforts. We are proud of these positive impacts and to call Proterra a partner, as they pass this key milestone in their journey as the foremost transport innovator in the world.” Doran Barnes, Executive Director at Foothill Transit: “We just surpassed one million miles of revenue service with our battery-electric Proterra fleet, and we’re looking forward to many more miles to come. Since our first EV bus procurement with Proterra in 2010, we knew that zero-emission buses were the future of mass transit. Now, with the new Catalyst E2, this vision is a reality. We’re excited by the possibilities of an all-electric future.” Jonathan Church, Administrator at Worcester Regional Transit Authority (WRTA): “More and more, we’re witnessing our neighbor agencies consider all-electric buses, as they see how well our Proterra buses have weathered some of the ugliest Northeast snow storms. We look forward to continuing our partnership with Proterra as their technology continues to expand within North America.” 2.6 Million Miles and Counting With annual sales already 220% higher than 2015, Proterra is experiencing a breakthrough year in the mass transit sector and expects the debut of the Catalyst E2 series to only further magnify this success. Doubling production in 2017 to serve unprecedented customer demand, Proterra will have both of its manufacturing lines in full operation in Greenville, S.C. and the City of Industry, Calif. To date, Proterra buses across the United States have completed over 2.5 million miles of revenue service, displacing 540,000 gallons of diesel, and eliminating over 10 million pounds of carbon emissions. “Proterra’s primary goal has always been to create a purpose-built, high-performance electric vehicle that can serve every single transit route in the United States. Today, with the unveiling of the Catalyst E2 Series, that goal has been achieved,” said Ryan Popple, CEO of Proterra. “The question is no longer who will be an early adopter of this technology, but rather who will be the last to commit to a future of clean, efficient, and sustainable mobility. With the Catalyst E2 offering a no-compromise replacement for all fossil fuel buses, battery-electric vehicles have now broken down the final barrier to widespread market adoption.” About Proterra: Proterra is a leader in the design and manufacture of zero-emission vehicles that enable bus fleet operators to eliminate the dependency on fossil fuels and to significantly reduce operating costs while delivering clean, quiet transportation to the community. Proterra has sold more than 312 vehicles to 35 different municipal, university, and commercial transit agencies throughout North America. Proterra’s configurable EV platform, battery and charging options make its buses well suited for a wide range of transit and campus routes. With unmatched durability and energy efficiency based on rigorous U.S. certification testing, Proterra products are proudly designed, engineered and manufactured in America, with offices in Silicon Valley, South Carolina, and Los Angeles. For more information, visit: http://www.proterra.com and follow us on Twitter @Proterra_Inc. Proterra Media Contact: [email protected] Previous Page Next Page View full article

Could it be that GM does not think people will take the BOLT on road trips compared to the VOLT? Good question to ask GM.