Incase you folks didnt know

[Guest Josh]

Flybrian has seemingly taken it upon himself to strip me of every thing I've help create on Cheers and Gears, however I still continue to pay for the web-site.

That said,

I sincerely hope you guys have had enough of me. I will continue to post, however I will not be the poster I once was before.

Hope you catch my drift.

It's been a long ride C&G....now, I continue to write the checks....yet...get f@#ked out of everything else!

[Satty]

Holy crap! The world keeps turning?

[sciguy_0504]

I admit I do not know the whole story but I don't think it is right that you, Josh, continue to pay for C&G.

[Satty]

Fly did say in another thread that he and the other mods have access to the Paypal account while Josh no longer does, which I assume means C&G will continue to be paid for with donations should Josh choose to not pay server costs himself.

[Croc]

Well, Josh, if you hadn't acted like such a drama queen that you pissed off all the mods, this never would have happened. All of the mods got tired of your BS, and why do you care so much? You quit, what, 434589435983459 times already anyway...

[Intrepidation]

So...what exactly happened?

[Croc]

It isn't so much a single thing, but more the result of many things that have culminated over the past couple years...at least that's my understanding of the situation. Honestly I don't know for sure, but this has been coming for a long time, and this news doesn't surprise me one bit.

What I do know is this: it isn't a personal vendetta, but what the mods as well as many of the content contributors think is best for the site.

[Cory Wolfe]

I got the story from Fly, and that's all I'll say. That said... now there's room for me, right?

Edited May 19, 2006 by blackviper8891

[RBB]

I would just like to make it known that I don't have any mod powers at this time, either.

-RBB

[Chazman]

Hey, I might be interested in buying this site, I've been here from the beginning. Does Walt still own it?

Someone give me some details, I'm serious.

[NOS2006]

Well, Josh, I bid thee a warm farewell on the site. I try to keep civility between myself and most others on the site, but I saw many a time conflicts between people on the site (by "people," I mean yourself, Croc, and others). Most of these conflicts are unhealthy to the site, but many members don't even realize what's happening.

I just wish that you, Croc, and others could resolve the problems that you guys have/had with other members and all could be good. It doesn't take much, just a simple, "What have I done wrong?," or, "I'm sorry for doing [insert action here], but I hope you forgive me because [insert excuse here]," or even, "I wish we could just see each other eye-to-eye because obviously you and I disagree on [insert assertion here], but it's not necessary to argue over something so stupid."

We're all car enthusiasts here, and if we weren't, one probably wouldn't find any of us sitting here on a pro-GM website/forum. So, this is to everybody when I say this, respect is the main ingredient. If one cannot share his/her views on a certain topic without being fair enough to accept, or at least civilly question, someone else's views, they don't belong here. In the end, we all just have to respect each other; this site's about cars anyway, not arguments that could've been resolved over animal crackers and chocolate milk in kindergarten.

[Cory Wolfe]

I think it is more of a "you piss off Fly, you'll regret it," quite simply.

[Enzora]

I would just like to make it known that I don't have any mod powers at this time, either.

-RBB

Me neither.

[evok]

Hey, I might be interested in buying this site, I've been here from the beginning. Does Walt still own it?

Someone give me some details, I'm serious.

I like your idea a lot.

[Guest Josh]

It's not a I piss off Fly deal at all. It's a I put him in charge of running the site while I pay for it to take time off and it went to his head too fast.

I can turn the lights off on the board in a minute, but I'm not a dick. I know you guys like the site, but I'm unhappy with how I've been treated here by Fly when it was myself and other moderators that chose him specifically to head things up for awhile.

I havent had access to anything on the site. Little by little my powers, ability, etc were taken away without warning or justification.

Some people dont know the half of it and I suspect C&G won't be open another 6 months. At least not without significant change.

[Northstar]

Josh posted that he wanted to step down from his position at some point, and that there was enough money donated in the PayPal account to pay for the site until June.

Here is what Josh posted in the mod forum:

There sits enough money in the C&G account right now to host the web-site for four months under my watch.

When the money is exhausted I will not be paying for the web-site or supporting it in anyway.

That being said, either yourself or others I feel have a significant amount of time to find hosting and decide who will pick up the tab.

Once I am done hosting the site, I also ask that my name be removed from any C&G contacts page (as it so blantantly has been already) and no reference to me exist as a person in position.

At the time of my departure, any website that should be created will no connections with C&G.

I think that pretty much clears things up...

[Variance]

So...does that mean in four months C&G isn't going to be "C&G" anymore?

[VenSeattle]

Josh PM'd Flybrian in March that he will pay for the site through June (based upon the original influx of donations received during the push back in February.)

Afterwards we (the admin team) will be responsible for the costs and hosting... this has been long in the running. Josh's statements are very slanted against the admin staff here.

------------------------------------

You know what... Let's set the record straight.

Josh resigned from running day-to-day Admin responsibilities last year and placed Flybrian in charge. We had another Crash... lost everything... and then Josh took over hosting and paying for the site. Walt continued (and continues to this day) to own the Cheersandgears.com domain. That has not and will not change.

Then Jan 17th comes around. With no provocation, warning or explanation Josh notifies the Admin Team that he's resigning from any and all responsibilities for the site:

I have no desire to play an important part in this website in the short term or any other enthusiast web-site. I'll fund the site and hope we can someday garner the attention that is necessary.

As for now, Walt I know you'll read this, so it's upon you to either take the reigns back in or chose somebody or somebodies to head up the site and the advancement of it. Or to let the web-site slip away and be nothing more than a distant memory in the mind of the many enthusiasts that read this site.

I'll visit, I'll comment, but as of now and for the forseeable future...I want no roll in administrative duties.

So the Admins had to pick up all the slack. Josh did not assist in the transition of responsibilities. We had to figure things out on our own.

Then The OUTLOOK story happened. That's right. The OUTLOOK fiasco happened after Josh already resigned. Josh notified us in the Admin section that he had a huge story and he didn't know what to do with it. This is what he posted:

I've read the issues about the site and us not being focused on news which I feel we now feature more news than ever, however people think GMI does a better job. So. Be. It.

The Saturn Outlook has been shelved as of now and I got the memo two minutes after GM employees received it.

The vehicle is shelved due to "possible brand re-alignment"....whatever that means. They also mentioned cost structure inluding supplier issues.

The best bet is this....do NOT go out being negative because of this news and it was announced literally less than 24 hours ago to GM employees and it was released on an internal GM certified confidential memo.

What we can do? I know how I want to run with this now when I get home from K-Zoo and I feel we can all make it worthwhile

In an almost unanimous decision (not everyone responded), we wanted Josh to let the Insiders know in order to obtain some type of validity to the story... or at least get feedback. Josh took it upon himself to run with the story without notifying us or placing it in pre-publish for everyone's review. He presented it as a "C&G" Exclusive and used "We" at every opportunity. None of us really appreciated that because we were against blindly publishing something without being verified. Most of us here respect our insiders very much and prefer to seek their council when it's of a serious nature... like the Outlook issue was.

This resulted in Josh's "Public" announcement to the board that he was resigning... despite that he had already done so in January, and many of the changes had already occurred behind the scenes. He leveraged the Outlook issue as justification, but that was not the truth. We left it be for the sake of a single/unified reason without all the drama. Oh Well. So much for that.

Site problems were rampant. The site had long down times and there were overages for the hosting plan that we were on. We all decided to switch hosts. We asked C&Gers for suggestions and started forming a plan of attack. We started a topic in the Admin section. Josh never responded to the questions, Fly asked Josh to respond and participate:

Josh, please do respond to this. We are waiting on you since you're the only one dealing with the host and are the only one with access to the PayPal donations.

No reply from Josh. Then, Josh PM'd Fly. Fly posted the PM in the Admin section:

There sits enough money in the C&G account right now to host the web-site for four months under my watch.

When the money is exhausted I will not be paying for the web-site or supporting it in anyway.

That being said, either yourself or others I feel have a significant amount of time to find hosting and decide who will pick up the tab.

Once I am done hosting the site, I also ask that my name be removed from any C&G contacts page (as it so blantantly has been already) and no reference to me exist as a person in position.

At the time of my departure, any website that should be created will no connections with C&G.

So...okay...

So, the migration to the new host site became our problem, not Josh's. He gave us a deadline (4 months... June'06). This is why we had to drop all other plans until we could migrate the site to a new hosting company. We've selected and created a new host plan with the current admins donating towards the initial costs and we're hoping to have this done very soon. A notice will be placed on the home page when we migrate. We're hoping for this weekend or next. We'll see if that holds.

So there's the story.

[Croc]

I think it is more of a "you piss off Fly, you'll regret it," quite simply.

Well, not just Fly...add in the other mods, AH-HA and a few other people.

NOS, I really don't know what you're referring to. Josh no longer being in an administrative capacity had zero to do with me. Am I a mod or admin? Nope...

[Northstar]

So...does that mean in four months C&G isn't going to be "C&G" anymore?

No, that simply means Josh is not paying for it anymore. The other mods (Fly, Camino, Z, Ven, myself, and others) have made donations to pay for the site for 2 more years. We will be switching hosts and getting off this crappy server shortly, and it will all be paid for for 2 years.

I should also add that the end of 4 months is June.

[Croc]

Thanks, Ven.

[Variance]

No, that simply means Josh is not paying for it anymore. The other mods (Fly, Camino, Z, Ven, myself, and others) have made donations to pay for the site for 2 more years. We will be switching hosts and getting off this crappy server shortly, and it will all be paid for for 2 years.

I should also add that the end of 4 months is June.

I see. Well, this all does clear quite a bit up.

[Croc]

Some people dont know the half of it and I suspect C&G won't be open another 6 months. At least not without significant change.

Yes, the significant change being your exit.

Blame Fly all you want, but Fly is a very nice and patient person. He hasn't mistreated you, Josh, nor will he because he isn't vindictive. Fly does the job better than you ever did, all the while maintaining his composure and refraining from throwing drama queen hissy fits every week and "quitting." If there's anything I can say about Fly it's that he is the most patient person on this site. He hates confrontations and puts them off until they just have to be done. He's patient with members and gives them many chances and such before raising their warning level a tick. Basically, Fly is NICE. You are not, clearly, since instead of accepting your own resignation (WTF??) with dignity and grace, here you are dragging Fly through the mud. You resigned, Josh! That means you lose admin powers! So quit bitching about how Fly took away your admin powers!

Edited May 19, 2006 by Croc

[Chris_Doane]

I'm pretty sure Fly plans on explaining all the aspects of this once the server switch is done. So no need to go jumping to conclusions or biting each others head off.

Simma-down-now!

Edited May 19, 2006 by CD/BP

[Cory Wolfe]

It's not a I piss off Fly deal at all. It's a I put him in charge of running the site while I pay for it to take time off and it went to his head too fast.

I can turn the lights off on the board in a minute, but I'm not a dick. I know you guys like the site, but I'm unhappy with how I've been treated here by Fly when it was myself and other moderators that chose him specifically to head things up for awhile.

I havent had access to anything on the site. Little by little my powers, ability, etc were taken away without warning or justification.

Some people dont know the half of it and I suspect C&G won't be open another 6 months. At least not without significant change.

Well... I, quite possibly, am going by, realistically, what Fly said to me and others. Personally, I don't have a problem with you, but honestly, you weren't... just... someone who helped C&G's reputation. Between your pissing matches with Croc, bad decisions on your part, failing to keep your word, as well as simply taking this site for granted... you only hurt C&G. Yes, I respect that you are the one that paid for the site, but I've heard from others that the big crash wasn't all accidental and could have been prevented. Look, if anything, C&G is better off... You're not the sole reason C&G is running and I'm sure, with the help of donations, merchandise, and the upcoming PMP someone will easily be able to pay for the site and keep it running. Again, nothing personal...

[Cory Wolfe]

Thanks, Ven.

...And that pretty much agrees with what I said, IMO.

[Croc]

Oh yea, I don't anticipate a lack of donations at all.

[Drew Dowdell]

If we need another fund drive, we have another fund drive..... that's all there is to it.

[Drew Dowdell]

Flybrian has seemingly taken it upon himself to strip me of every thing I've help create on Cheers and Gears, however I still continue to pay for the web-site.

That said,

I sincerely hope you guys have had enough of me. I will continue to post, however I will not be the poster I once was before.

Hope you catch my drift.

It's been a long ride C&G....now, I continue to write the checks....yet...get f@#ked out of everything else!

Oh yea, I paid a substantial amount of money to the site as well.... and I got squat.....

which is precisely what I asked for.

[Flybrian]

I would like to ask everyone to go back to the first page and read through Venseattle's post. It sums things up in a very proper and accurate fashion.

I do, however, feel the need to respond.

By Josh's own admission, he isn't paying a cent for the site. Rather, the past three months and next one month of site hosting is funded by those who graciously donated to Cheers and Gears. Now, Josh, you can claim that you've had to pay 'bandwidth overages' amounting to a figure you quote to be 'several hundred dollars,' but the fact is Voyage Hosting has never charged us a nickel for exceeding our bandwidth (something we've done only twice recently). I know because I had a conversation with the gentleman in charge of running our server.

Josh's posts regarding his own resignation speak for themselves. Not only was this done to the moderators, but also to the membership in general following the Outlook debacle. It was up to myself with the generous help of the other moderators to pick up when Josh abandoned the site and continue the vital things such as updates, purchasing spy photographs, revising the site, and most importantly stepping up to pay for new host.

In regards to funding, let me make this crystal clear - we consider the original PayPal donation account to be empty because Josh refused to provide any detailed information regarding its balance to the rest of the Admins and Mods, a team that he trusted enough to run the site when he resigned. The 2-year pre-paid cost of the new host amounts to approximately $385.00, a bill a half dozen of us including myself paid.

That last statement isn't meant to draw sympathy or thanks for us. Its meant to show that C&G is a true hobby for us, something for which we gain no tangible reward for the time, energy, and money we put into it. We know this going every day and yet we donate a good amount of the aformentioned towards it knowing that our only reward is the ability to log into the site the next day and the day after that.

Josh, I don't exactly see why you're so surprised about what has happened. I'm sure you really enjoyed being here in the past, but something happened to you. You let the personal vendettas get the best of you and its very clear. You resigned both publically and privately. You left this site with absolutely no leadership and questionable leadership prior to your fifth and final quitting. It took days and weeks and months to get scraps of information necessary for us to continue pressing forth with C&G. As for respect, its clear you have none for us. You went behind our backs to run stories that you know will have to be pulled. You join other message boards to continue your personal feuds, ignoring any consequences it has for C&G. And you told me personally through IM not so long ago that "I'm f@#king sick of most of the Mods and if I'm ever back in charge, 7 of them will be gone in a second." And this, the most recent of multiple instances where you've threatened to take the board offline...

I can turn the lights off on the board in a minute

...shows your true colors.

This will be my final word on the subject, not because I can't fight the battle, but because there is no battle to be fought. Josh resigned, we're moving a new Josh-free server, Walt will continue to own C&G, I will continue to be the Administrator, the other staff will continue staffing, discussions will continue, news will be posted, Toyotas will still suck, BV and Ocn will still be gay, and life will go on.

For everyone, I truly do thank you from the bottom of my heart for all the support you've given us in every way. We honestly do this all for you guys, and you guys have made it very, very worth it.

[Intrepidation]

No, that simply means Josh is not paying for it anymore. The other mods (Fly, Camino, Z, Ven, myself, and others) have made donations to pay for the site for 2 more years. We will be switching hosts and getting off this crappy server shortly, and it will all be paid for for 2 years.

I should also add that the end of 4 months is June.

Glad to hear that the annoying downtimes will stop

[Chris_Doane]

BV and Ocn will still be gay

What about me and Drew?

[Guest YellowJacket894]

What a mess. What an utter f@#karow.

Well...I, quite possibly, am going by, realistically, what Fly said to me and others. Personally, I don't have a problem with you, but honestly, you weren't...just...someone who helped C&G's reputation. Between your pissing matches with Croc, bad decisions on your part, failing to keep your word, as well as simply taking this site for granted... you only hurt C&G. Yes, I respect that you are the one that paid for the site, but I've heard from others that the big crash wasn't all accidental and could have been prevented. Look, if anything, C&G is better off... You're not the sole reason C&G is running and I'm sure, with the help of donations, merchandise, and the upcoming PMP someone will easily be able to pay for the site and keep it running. Again, nothing personal...

Anyhow, when the server switches, will everything -- user accounts, post counts, active topics, so on and so forth -- go down? Or will there just be a new address to go to and everything stays the same?

I find it a shame Josh had to go from doing rather decent job fufilling his resposibilities here to becoming somewhat of a leech that has sapped this site of a small portion of its reputation.

And I find it a shame that the last crash could have been prevented. But I guess Josh had lost the flame he had with C&G sometime before that and didn't much care to rekindle it from what I've read.

What a f@#karow.

But, it doesn't matter. Not anymore, anyway. Brian seems to know what to do with the site and how to fix it. I wish him the best of luck and hopes he keeps this place floating for a few more years to come.

I guess the regular members like myself are going to just sit back and watch C&G re-invent itself again.

[Intrepidation]

discussions will continue, news will be posted, Toyotas will still suck, BV and Ocn will still be gay, and life will go on.

priceless

[Enzora]

What about me and Drew?

No, I'm pretty sure you're going to wake up one day soon with an uncontrollable urge to have sex with women.

Edit: Upon discussion with an anonymous (see: fictional) admin who has inside info on the new server, it turns out that it will actually be able to support 60% MORE gay bandwidth than the current setup. Looks like everyone gets to hold on to their sexual identities for now.

Edited May 19, 2006 by Enzora

[Brandon Lutz]

Toyotas will still suck

Best...

Post...

EVER!!!!

[Charger4U]

Flybrian has seemingly taken it upon himself to strip me of every thing I've help create on Cheers and Gears, however I still continue to pay for the web-site.

That said,

I sincerely hope you guys have had enough of me. I will continue to post, however I will not be the poster I once was before.

Hope you catch my drift.

It's been a long ride C&G....now, I continue to write the checks....yet...get f@#ked out of everything else!

My take on this is that you want evryones sympathy...cause you keep coming back when you dont get it..im pretty sure you said you were gonna quit posting a while ago...and taht neevr happened...when you say your gonna quit this or quit that..well we only need to hear it once.. just my 2 cents

Sorry to the people who pay for this board cause i dont have credit card number to donate the money o should owe..

[bowtie_dude]

There's less political back-biting in Congress.

Interesting that all of this has taken place, but also fantastic to have an administration staff who cares enough about a bunch of weirdos they've never met to pony up their own hard earned dough to keep the site running for TWO MORE YEARS!

Amazing, fantastic, superb. A big hand to them all!

:sign0200:

EDIT: I'd have more emotes, but the board said I had too many.

3 cheers for the administration!!!

Hip-hip, hooray!

Hip-hip, hooray!

Hip-hip, hooray!

Edited May 19, 2006 by bowtie_dude

[sciguy_0504]

Thank you guys for your side of the story, it does a lot to clear things up. To be fair, I would like to hear Josh's side of the story but I realize if posted publicly it would likely start a nuclear war so if you, Josh, would like to PM with it, I would be thankful. Again, to be fair.

I would like to say that regardless of what actually happened, the mods did a great job keeping the site up and running as smoothly as possible. For me, I noticed nothing had changed. Yes, sometimes the server would crap out but that has been happening since I first arrived on the scene...nothing out of the ordinary.

[daves87rs]

I kinda feel like it 's

"as the Gears turn"

I've seen less drama then a bus full of cheerleaders....

Anyways, I'm quite glad to see the site will be around for quite a while..

that is good news.

[bowtie_dude]

Ok, how about this!

Make me acting CEO. We continue to take donations and all the admin staff that ponied up their dough will continue to pay for the site as well, except I'll be responsible for making sure everything gets paid.

I use all the money to buy a Toyota Camry, the site goes offline July 06, I skidaddle out of the spotlight, leaving Brian to take the rap, and we have our own miniature Enron!

Huh? Huh? Yeah, I knew you guys would be on board!

[ocnblu]

My personal thanks to everyone and anyone who has been working behind the scenes in any capacity to keep this site going.

[FAPTurbo]

My personal thanks to everyone and anyone who has been working behind the scenes in any capacity to keep this site going.

Here Here.

[bowtie_dude]

My personal thanks to everyone and anyone who has been working behind the scenes in any capacity to keep this site going.

[BigPontiac]

So, the donations that some of us made HAVE been being used to pay for keeping the site running, correct? I am hoping the paypal account was not used as a "Solstice gas fund"...

Interesting that AH-HA had made an offer to pay for the site before leaving...but had a "no Josh" condition attached to it...since it sounds like that was possible at the time, it's too bad things ended so badly then and now.

[Satty]

Josh--> <--Fly Et Al.

I dont think its any big secret that Josh and I have never really seen eye to eye, which is what led to me stepping down as a mod nearly a year ago. I felt when I resigned and believe to this day that Josh's ego, and nothing else, is what led to C&G becoming less of a close knit community than it was. I feel that with today's revelations, C&G will be able to get back to where it was, back to being the #1 source for GM news and discussion on the internet. That said, I would like to wish the best of luck to the new, Josh-free moderating team. They're a good group of guys, hardworking and dedicated to General Motors as well as Cheers and Gears, not themselves. guys, motor on.

[z28luvr01]

Well, I don't really have much of anything to say now that everything seems to be out in the open. I regret seeing things unfold the way they have, but unfortunately this day was inevitable. Josh has been a pillar of this site since I joined and thanks at least in part to him we still have a C&G to visit today. But now the best thing for both sides (C&G and Josh) would be to move on and not dwell on today's events or whatever transpired behind the scenes these past few months. C&G will rise above this just like it has everything else that's threatened its existence. As for Josh, one chapter has ended in his life but another one is about to begin.

As far as the hosting situation goes, it is my utmost priority to ensure that all the site's data remains intact throughout the transfer. I don't want a "start from scratch" scenario any more than you do. The site files and an old copy of our database are residing and working on the new server. I will update that database with the latest version available once the switch in the DNS is thrown by Walt. Noone should be required to re-register: the worst case scenario would be that we lose a few posts.

[bowtie_dude]

Well, I don't really have much of anything to say now that everything seems to be out in the open. I regret seeing things unfold the way they have, but unfortunately this day was inevitable. Josh has been a pillar of this site since I joined and thanks at least in part to him we still have a C&G to visit today. But now the best thing for both sides (C&G and Josh) would be to move on and not dwell on today's events or whatever transpired behind the scenes these past few months. C&G will rise above this just like it has everything else that's threatened its existence. As for Josh, one chapter has ended in his life but another one is about to begin.

Thats what really gets me. I remember when I first started posting here back in Feb 02. I remember considering Josh someone to respect and as someone that was always super nice and who never seemed to have a problem.

Yet, for the past 18 months or so, all that changed. At least Brian still makes good jokes!

[NOS2006]

In the end, I think we're all just taking people we don't know any more than an internet alias far too seriously..

But I'm with oblu..

[bowtie_dude]

In the end, I think we're all just taking people we don't know any more than an internet alias far too seriously..

But I'm with oblu..

You're probably right!