Tesla Model 3 to Debut End of March, Production Late 2016

hyperv6 · February 12, 2016

Well The way I see it there is no perfect fit for all in cars today. That is why GM is looking and doing EV, Diesel, Gas, Hybrid and at some point Hydrogen.

The Fact is some folks can live with an EV or are willing to deal with the added changes they will have to accommodate to own one. Some still want the electric feature but do not want to deal with charge times range etc that may not fit their life style. Then you have the gas that is doing fine and will not change anyone life as it is already adapted to it.

There is no right or wrong here just what ever you want and are willing to work with.

The one vehicle that fits most today is a ICE 4 door sedan or ICE CUE. No charging issue and the main reason price. As prices come down more will take an interest in a EV but the Bolt is really the first to make a attempt at that.

The you still have other behavior issues to deal with. The foolish people who just do not take the time to fill up and run out of gas as they only put in $5 at a time. It is still a common thing. In a ICE it is a little more forgiving as a Can of fuel solves the issue. As for those who forget or are too lazy to plug in well you are looking at a flatbed.

Might be a good Idea to invent a battery pack you can plug in and use if you kill the main battery. Just one large enough to get home or to a plug. Hmm Might be a market there for a reserve battey system?

As for battery life some on the list above I have heard and others I have read were 180 degrees opposite?

My wife kills her cell phone all the time and I keep mine mostly charged. After 2 years she needs a battery and mine I give to my son and it goes on for 3 more years under his abuse of killing it.

Hell I have a Apple Iphone 3 that I keep charged up on a stereo just for the I pod and it will still hold a charge yet today if I remove it. God it is so small LOL.

I do know from RC drones and other charging items most say to charge full often.

Use them but do not kill them to the last drop of power.

Store 50% or a little more but never totally drained.

Rapid charging will shorten the life to a degree in most applications. Long charges will prolong battery life.

Cold will sap power as power is lost the colder it gets.

Heat will damage batteries over time be it use or conditions.

A lot of these vary due to the battery as while they may be of the same type they are not all the same.

Like I have said the EV segment is slow growth. It will take time to continue to improve them and to get the price down. They will gain market but they will not dominate the market unless some real changes come soon. A breakthrough on a battery to make it better and cheaper could be a game changer.

There will be some other great changes. I see the EV cars being like Cell Phones. Everyone will want the newest as it will have all the best advanced features. The used ones will be like my old I Phone 3 and no one will want it. Technology will drive sales here as the latest and greatest will hold the most appeal.

The key to the future too is to fine a way to make variations of the EV vehicles that can have larger profiles and weight but not lose range. larger EV CUV models that look like trucks will hold appeal. The Tesla X is more a tall S model so while it is termed a CUV it is still more car like. That is how they keep the CD down.

Styling will be a challenge as aero is important in these car as it represents miles in the battery. It will be a trick to restyle these vehicles with out damaging the aero numbers. Often they are designed around the aero number not the other way around. I think the squared off edges on the Volt were claimed to have added a couple miles alone.

Climate control systems still need some work to become even more efficient.

More charging stations are needed and have to keep pace with the increase in sales.

The older people will cling to the ICE but younger people will adapt more easily. Each generation will embrace them more.

There is just so much socially once we get more in the world that we will learn and have to change or adapt because of the nature of these vehicles. Human nature brings out all the issues we have not considered and we still have much to learn. Charging educate alone will be an issue. I can see someone getting in to charge rage because some is not unplugging when they are charges in time.

How soon before we see a old redneck driving a old Tesla with a Honda Generator tied to the trunk lid running and putting power into the car. Laugh now but I promise you it will happen.

I never forgot the guy with the old Ford who had the gas tank fall off with rust that put a 5 gallon can in the front seat and a line out the vent window and into the cowl to the carb. Never under estimate the human.

Also the guy who decides to fix his old EV himself and zaps himself to the pearly gates. It will happen. I am shocked I have not seen more people get zapped on the new direct injection injectors. Those have a ton of pressure and a lot of voltage. I figure there will be injuries on them once more fail.

Robert Hall · February 12, 2016

I suspect older EVs will be recycled before the rabble can get ahold of them..

oldshurst442 · February 12, 2016

Well The way I see it there is no perfect fit for all in cars today. That is why GM is looking and doing EV, Diesel, Gas, Hybrid and at some point Hydrogen.

The Fact is some folks can live with an EV or are willing to deal with the added changes they will have to accommodate to own one. Some still want the electric feature but do not want to deal with charge times range etc that may not fit their life style. Then you have the gas that is doing fine and will not change anyone life as it is already adapted to it.

There is no right or wrong here just what ever you want and are willing to work with.

The one vehicle that fits most today is a ICE 4 door sedan or ICE CUE. No charging issue and the main reason price. As prices come down more will take an interest in a EV but the Bolt is really the first to make a attempt at that.

The you still have other behavior issues to deal with. The foolish people who just do not take the time to fill up and run out of gas as they only put in $5 at a time. It is still a common thing. In a ICE it is a little more forgiving as a Can of fuel solves the issue. As for those who forget or are too lazy to plug in well you are looking at a flatbed.

Might be a good Idea to invent a battery pack you can plug in and use if you kill the main battery. Just one large enough to get home or to a plug. Hmm Might be a market there for a reserve battey system?

As for battery life some on the list above I have heard and others I have read were 180 degrees opposite?

My wife kills her cell phone all the time and I keep mine mostly charged. After 2 years she needs a battery and mine I give to my son and it goes on for 3 more years under his abuse of killing it.

Hell I have a Apple Iphone 3 that I keep charged up on a stereo just for the I pod and it will still hold a charge yet today if I remove it. God it is so small LOL.

I do know from RC drones and other charging items most say to charge full often.

Use them but do not kill them to the last drop of power.

Store 50% or a little more but never totally drained.

Rapid charging will shorten the life to a degree in most applications. Long charges will prolong battery life.

Cold will sap power as power is lost the colder it gets.

Heat will damage batteries over time be it use or conditions.

A lot of these vary due to the battery as while they may be of the same type they are not all the same.

Like I have said the EV segment is slow growth. It will take time to continue to improve them and to get the price down. They will gain market but they will not dominate the market unless some real changes come soon. A breakthrough on a battery to make it better and cheaper could be a game changer.

There will be some other great changes. I see the EV cars being like Cell Phones. Everyone will want the newest as it will have all the best advanced features. The used ones will be like my old I Phone 3 and no one will want it. Technology will drive sales here as the latest and greatest will hold the most appeal.

The key to the future too is to fine a way to make variations of the EV vehicles that can have larger profiles and weight but not lose range. larger EV CUV models that look like trucks will hold appeal. The Tesla X is more a tall S model so while it is termed a CUV it is still more car like. That is how they keep the CD down.

Styling will be a challenge as aero is important in these car as it represents miles in the battery. It will be a trick to restyle these vehicles with out damaging the aero numbers. Often they are designed around the aero number not the other way around. I think the squared off edges on the Volt were claimed to have added a couple miles alone.

Climate control systems still need some work to become even more efficient.

More charging stations are needed and have to keep pace with the increase in sales.

The older people will cling to the ICE but younger people will adapt more easily. Each generation will embrace them more.

There is just so much socially once we get more in the world that we will learn and have to change or adapt because of the nature of these vehicles. Human nature brings out all the issues we have not considered and we still have much to learn. Charging educate alone will be an issue. I can see someone getting in to charge rage because some is not unplugging when they are charges in time.

How soon before we see a old redneck driving a old Tesla with a Honda Generator tied to the trunk lid running and putting power into the car. Laugh now but I promise you it will happen.

I never forgot the guy with the old Ford who had the gas tank fall off with rust that put a 5 gallon can in the front seat and a line out the vent window and into the cowl to the carb. Never under estimate the human.

Also the guy who decides to fix his old EV himself and zaps himself to the pearly gates. It will happen. I am shocked I have not seen more people get zapped on the new direct injection injectors. Those have a ton of pressure and a lot of voltage. I figure there will be injuries on them once more fail.

Thanx Hyper for this post.

I like to read your posts when your opinions are logical in this manner. This post gives people on both sides of the fence on Tesla, and EV cars in general, something to think about and ponder. Maybe it wont sway people to change their minds on whatever side they are on about Tesla or EV cars in general, but at least this post is as close to reality as it can get.

Edited February 12, 2016 by oldshurst442

ocnblu · February 12, 2016

According to the Bolt site's map feature, I can commute back and forth to work for 4 days on a charge, with 6 miles left over to enjoy (more like fret over) on other journeys. But is that on a 30 degree day, or a 70 degree day? What if it is raining? Snowing? What if I am hauling people, or things? There is no place to plug it in at work. What if I decide to take a different route home for some reason and get stuck in traffic?

oldshurst442 · February 12, 2016

According to the Bolt site's map feature, I can commute back and forth to work for 4 days on a charge, with 6 miles left over to enjoy (more like fret over) on other journeys. But is that on a 30 degree day, or a 70 degree day? What if it is raining? Snowing? What if I am hauling people, or things? There is no place to plug it in at work. What if I decide to take a different route home for some reason and get stuck in traffic?

What if???

EDIT...

Mr Cubical has got you on one angle, Ive got you on another...

You are probably gonna be hospitalized with a heart attack and ulcers before you would drain your battery on your EV the way you worry about...nothing.

Edited February 13, 2016 by oldshurst442

Robert Hall · February 12, 2016

According to the Bolt site's map feature, I can commute back and forth to work for 4 days on a charge, with 6 miles left over to enjoy (more like fret over) on other journeys. But is that on a 30 degree day, or a 70 degree day? What if it is raining? Snowing? What if I am hauling people, or things? There is no place to plug it in at work. What if I decide to take a different route home for some reason and get stuck in traffic?

Then you are SOL, I guess... LOL. Never leave home without adequate fuel or charge.

Robert Hall · February 13, 2016

Let's see...my current commute is approx 24 miles a day, 5 days a week. 120 miles a week, and then maybe another 25 miles around town on the weekends and evenings. So maybe 150 miles a week. At current gas prices, it's only about $20-25 a week to fill up (I average 16 mpg). So an electric w/ a 200 mile range could work for me, but I'd need an outlet outside to plug it in..don't have a 220 outlet. My current office parking garage is putting in charging stations for EVs.

But it's all a moot point, since in a few months, my commute will probably be completely different...

oldshurst442 · February 13, 2016

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-us-mexico-nafta-clean-energy-mou-1.3444675

Canada-US-Mexico clean energy deal...signed...TODAY!!!

Green energy boom
"It's the fact we are recognizing that our energy relationship is more than just oil, and there is more to the Canada-U.S. relationship than the Keystone pipeline," said Keith Stewart, head of Greenpeace Canada's climate and energy campaign.

Stewart points out a type of green NAFTA is new territory for the three governments

"This is the kind of thing that has been done on trade, it hasn't been done on climate change. If this is a first step in that direction, it's a good thing," Stewart told CBC News.

Clean energy groups predict today's agreement means the continent's industry is about to take off.

"It shows how seriously our countries will be starting to take clean energy." said Clare Demerse, senior policy adviser with Clean Energy Canada.

Demerse says it could create a bigger market for Canadian renewable energy.

For example, the U.S. Clean Power Plan allows coal-burning states to import clean Canadian energy that has come online since 2012 to reduce their emissions. Despite a recent court-imposed delay, most environmentalists believe that plan will eventually proceed with a big demand for Canadian hydro, solar and wind power.

There could also be a chance to develop a continent-wide infrastructure for electric cars.

"All three countries manufacture cars, all three are thinking about the next generation of cars," Demerse said.

"There is a lot they can do together to make sure, for example, you could drive an electric car anywhere on the continent and know you can charge it."

Electric cars are the future...internal combustion engine cars are dying...a very slow death...but they are dying...

hyperv6 · February 13, 2016

I suspect older EVs will be recycled before the rabble can get ahold of them..

Never underestimate a redneck!

hyperv6 · February 13, 2016

According to the Bolt site's map feature, I can commute back and forth to work for 4 days on a charge, with 6 miles left over to enjoy (more like fret over) on other journeys. But is that on a 30 degree day, or a 70 degree day? What if it is raining? Snowing? What if I am hauling people, or things? There is no place to plug it in at work. What if I decide to take a different route home for some reason and get stuck in traffic?

Well you would charge it every night. Plugging it in like a Cell Phone would be the new routine.

Even a cold day would not kill 200 miles in a local commute.

Ran is not an issue.

Hauling How much are you going to get in a Bolt to start with. Date only skinny women and you are golden.

Different routes should be no issue (See plug in every night above]

Traffic? If you are not moving the only electric used will be Climate control, LED lights and Radio. All use little power but the heat.

regfootball · February 13, 2016

Well The way I see it there is no perfect fit for all in cars today. That is why GM is looking and doing EV, Diesel, Gas, Hybrid and at some point Hydrogen.

The Fact is some folks can live with an EV or are willing to deal with the added changes they will have to accommodate to own one. Some still want the electric feature but do not want to deal with charge times range etc that may not fit their life style. Then you have the gas that is doing fine and will not change anyone life as it is already adapted to it.

There is no right or wrong here just what ever you want and are willing to work with.

The one vehicle that fits most today is a ICE 4 door sedan or ICE CUE. No charging issue and the main reason price. As prices come down more will take an interest in a EV but the Bolt is really the first to make a attempt at that.

The you still have other behavior issues to deal with. The foolish people who just do not take the time to fill up and run out of gas as they only put in $5 at a time. It is still a common thing. In a ICE it is a little more forgiving as a Can of fuel solves the issue. As for those who forget or are too lazy to plug in well you are looking at a flatbed.

Might be a good Idea to invent a battery pack you can plug in and use if you kill the main battery. Just one large enough to get home or to a plug. Hmm Might be a market there for a reserve battey system?

As for battery life some on the list above I have heard and others I have read were 180 degrees opposite?

My wife kills her cell phone all the time and I keep mine mostly charged. After 2 years she needs a battery and mine I give to my son and it goes on for 3 more years under his abuse of killing it.

Hell I have a Apple Iphone 3 that I keep charged up on a stereo just for the I pod and it will still hold a charge yet today if I remove it. God it is so small LOL.

I do know from RC drones and other charging items most say to charge full often.

Use them but do not kill them to the last drop of power.

Store 50% or a little more but never totally drained.

Rapid charging will shorten the life to a degree in most applications. Long charges will prolong battery life.

Cold will sap power as power is lost the colder it gets.

Heat will damage batteries over time be it use or conditions.

A lot of these vary due to the battery as while they may be of the same type they are not all the same.

Like I have said the EV segment is slow growth. It will take time to continue to improve them and to get the price down. They will gain market but they will not dominate the market unless some real changes come soon. A breakthrough on a battery to make it better and cheaper could be a game changer.

There will be some other great changes. I see the EV cars being like Cell Phones. Everyone will want the newest as it will have all the best advanced features. The used ones will be like my old I Phone 3 and no one will want it. Technology will drive sales here as the latest and greatest will hold the most appeal.

The key to the future too is to fine a way to make variations of the EV vehicles that can have larger profiles and weight but not lose range. larger EV CUV models that look like trucks will hold appeal. The Tesla X is more a tall S model so while it is termed a CUV it is still more car like. That is how they keep the CD down.

Styling will be a challenge as aero is important in these car as it represents miles in the battery. It will be a trick to restyle these vehicles with out damaging the aero numbers. Often they are designed around the aero number not the other way around. I think the squared off edges on the Volt were claimed to have added a couple miles alone.

Climate control systems still need some work to become even more efficient.

More charging stations are needed and have to keep pace with the increase in sales.

The older people will cling to the ICE but younger people will adapt more easily. Each generation will embrace them more.

There is just so much socially once we get more in the world that we will learn and have to change or adapt because of the nature of these vehicles. Human nature brings out all the issues we have not considered and we still have much to learn. Charging educate alone will be an issue. I can see someone getting in to charge rage because some is not unplugging when they are charges in time.

How soon before we see a old redneck driving a old Tesla with a Honda Generator tied to the trunk lid running and putting power into the car. Laugh now but I promise you it will happen.

I never forgot the guy with the old Ford who had the gas tank fall off with rust that put a 5 gallon can in the front seat and a line out the vent window and into the cowl to the carb. Never under estimate the human.

Also the guy who decides to fix his old EV himself and zaps himself to the pearly gates. It will happen. I am shocked I have not seen more people get zapped on the new direct injection injectors. Those have a ton of pressure and a lot of voltage. I figure there will be injuries on them once more fail.

The resale market will do a lot to determine what cars and powertrain configuration will rule out with EV's. Pure EV's may have an extremely limited resale market, because the range anxiety issue may not be something people are willing to deal with when buying a car second hand. Voltecs are ready for any situation with the range extender. So if you can explain to a potential buyer that it runs fine on gas as it does plugged in, that means future viability and flexibility will be maintained.....you will still have a large base of people that will buy your car. I still believe GM should do what they can to give the volt a much higher plug in range.

Pure EV would be nice but the problem is the time and money to convert to a full EV 'refueling' infrastructure will take at least 20 years plus. I am guessing ICE will still be sold on cars for at least that long. ICE cars bought in 2020 will still be looking for fuel stations in 2040. Convenience stores with quick charge won't completely replace gas pumps so there is the whole thing about how convenience stores will remodel to accommodate both gas pumps and charge stations. Even though whack jobs at the federal level (encouraged by whack job enviros) will likely push for elimination of ICE and fuel stations, if someone buys a car in 2027 with an ICE and in 2033 can no longer use it, they will be really pissed off. Then, cash for ICE clunkers will have to buy back ICE vehicles. And we'll have to be guaranteed that our grid can supply every ounce of power that is needed.

There will be no course anytime soon that pure EV only can serve the entire market, and because such, it will naturally be a limited market for quite awhile. If that ends up being 40% of the market, that is still a lot of cars no doubt. But it will be proof that it is a limited market, new and more importantly, resale. It is always tough to sell a new car that is bludgeoned with the prospect of a limited resale market, and then values tank, and the spiral begins.

Just be sure to read about the value of lease return Nissan Leafs sometime.

When those leafs bottom out in value however, they will become popular for people to buy as a cheap 3rd car, that is a neighborhood runaround.

hyperv6 · February 13, 2016

The thing with these cars is it will take a little thinking and responsibility to own and drive a car like this In other words you will need to plan ahead and anticipate future trips you may not have planned on.

In other word it would take a little intelligence to function as if you make the wrong choice or decision you could put yourself at a deficit that is not easily or quickly remedied.

Lets face it these are to a degree a change in lifestyle and you will have to organize and plan things in your life a little differently. It may not be a big deal to some but to others who like to act on a whim and never keep a full tank of gas may struggle.

To me I always fill up at half a tank. Two reasons. One that is what I use in a week and two you never know when you may get caught out. I remember the lines for gas on 9/11. Also when the east coast went down with the black out a few years ago there were few places to get gas. I was one of the few with power in Ohio for some odd reason and our one station was open but they ran out of gas as everyone filled up asap.

In this day and age you never know if you may need the gas So I try to never get caught short. Not that I am a conspiracy guy but in this day and age one dirty bomb could make you need to bug out fast. I have never been given specifics but my friend in the FBI says to be prepared as you never know.

oldshurst442 · February 13, 2016

The resale market will do a lot to determine what cars and powertrain configuration will rule out with EV's. Pure EV's may have an extremely limited resale market, because the range anxiety issue may not be something people are willing to deal with when buying a car second hand.

Electric infrastructure is growing...and give it another year or two...it will start growing by leaps and bounds...

To me I always fill up at half a tank. Two reasons. One that is what I use in a week and two you never know when you may get caught out. I remember the lines for gas on 9/11. Also when the east coast went down with the black out a few years ago there were few places to get gas. I was one of the few with power in Ohio for some odd reason and our one station was open but they ran out of gas as everyone filled up asap.
In this day and age you never know if you may need the gas So I try to never get caught short. Not that I am a conspiracy guy but in this day and age one dirty bomb could make you need to bug out fast. I have never been given specifics but my friend in the FBI says to be prepared as you never know.

I never thought of that....and yes...these are words of wisdom to live by in this day and age...even if I do live in Montreal Quebec, Canada...

A country that is considered "peaceful" by many, even by those terrorists...from time to time...Canada does get mentioned that its a terrorist target...and even if it is in the Frenchie part of Canada, a place that wants to separate from Canada and Montreal...a very cosmopolitan, multi-cultural city...

In the 1970s....with all those gas stations around...many motorists were left stranded because there simply was no gasoline available...

The last picture looks like its a gas station in the middle of nowhere...imagine running out of gasoline there?

Edited February 13, 2016 by oldshurst442

hyperv6 · February 13, 2016

Well The way I see it there is no perfect fit for all in cars today. That is why GM is looking and doing EV, Diesel, Gas, Hybrid and at some point Hydrogen.

The Fact is some folks can live with an EV or are willing to deal with the added changes they will have to accommodate to own one. Some still want the electric feature but do not want to deal with charge times range etc that may not fit their life style. Then you have the gas that is doing fine and will not change anyone life as it is already adapted to it.

There is no right or wrong here just what ever you want and are willing to work with.

The one vehicle that fits most today is a ICE 4 door sedan or ICE CUE. No charging issue and the main reason price. As prices come down more will take an interest in a EV but the Bolt is really the first to make a attempt at that.

The you still have other behavior issues to deal with. The foolish people who just do not take the time to fill up and run out of gas as they only put in $5 at a time. It is still a common thing. In a ICE it is a little more forgiving as a Can of fuel solves the issue. As for those who forget or are too lazy to plug in well you are looking at a flatbed.

Might be a good Idea to invent a battery pack you can plug in and use if you kill the main battery. Just one large enough to get home or to a plug. Hmm Might be a market there for a reserve battey system?

As for battery life some on the list above I have heard and others I have read were 180 degrees opposite?

My wife kills her cell phone all the time and I keep mine mostly charged. After 2 years she needs a battery and mine I give to my son and it goes on for 3 more years under his abuse of killing it.

Hell I have a Apple Iphone 3 that I keep charged up on a stereo just for the I pod and it will still hold a charge yet today if I remove it. God it is so small LOL.

I do know from RC drones and other charging items most say to charge full often.

Use them but do not kill them to the last drop of power.

Store 50% or a little more but never totally drained.

Rapid charging will shorten the life to a degree in most applications. Long charges will prolong battery life.

Cold will sap power as power is lost the colder it gets.

Heat will damage batteries over time be it use or conditions.

A lot of these vary due to the battery as while they may be of the same type they are not all the same.

Like I have said the EV segment is slow growth. It will take time to continue to improve them and to get the price down. They will gain market but they will not dominate the market unless some real changes come soon. A breakthrough on a battery to make it better and cheaper could be a game changer.

There will be some other great changes. I see the EV cars being like Cell Phones. Everyone will want the newest as it will have all the best advanced features. The used ones will be like my old I Phone 3 and no one will want it. Technology will drive sales here as the latest and greatest will hold the most appeal.

The key to the future too is to fine a way to make variations of the EV vehicles that can have larger profiles and weight but not lose range. larger EV CUV models that look like trucks will hold appeal. The Tesla X is more a tall S model so while it is termed a CUV it is still more car like. That is how they keep the CD down.

Styling will be a challenge as aero is important in these car as it represents miles in the battery. It will be a trick to restyle these vehicles with out damaging the aero numbers. Often they are designed around the aero number not the other way around. I think the squared off edges on the Volt were claimed to have added a couple miles alone.

Climate control systems still need some work to become even more efficient.

More charging stations are needed and have to keep pace with the increase in sales.

The older people will cling to the ICE but younger people will adapt more easily. Each generation will embrace them more.

There is just so much socially once we get more in the world that we will learn and have to change or adapt because of the nature of these vehicles. Human nature brings out all the issues we have not considered and we still have much to learn. Charging educate alone will be an issue. I can see someone getting in to charge rage because some is not unplugging when they are charges in time.

How soon before we see a old redneck driving a old Tesla with a Honda Generator tied to the trunk lid running and putting power into the car. Laugh now but I promise you it will happen.

I never forgot the guy with the old Ford who had the gas tank fall off with rust that put a 5 gallon can in the front seat and a line out the vent window and into the cowl to the carb. Never under estimate the human.

Also the guy who decides to fix his old EV himself and zaps himself to the pearly gates. It will happen. I am shocked I have not seen more people get zapped on the new direct injection injectors. Those have a ton of pressure and a lot of voltage. I figure there will be injuries on them once more fail.

The resale market will do a lot to determine what cars and powertrain configuration will rule out with EV's. Pure EV's may have an extremely limited resale market, because the range anxiety issue may not be something people are willing to deal with when buying a car second hand. Voltecs are ready for any situation with the range extender. So if you can explain to a potential buyer that it runs fine on gas as it does plugged in, that means future viability and flexibility will be maintained.....you will still have a large base of people that will buy your car. I still believe GM should do what they can to give the volt a much higher plug in range.

Pure EV would be nice but the problem is the time and money to convert to a full EV 'refueling' infrastructure will take at least 20 years plus. I am guessing ICE will still be sold on cars for at least that long. ICE cars bought in 2020 will still be looking for fuel stations in 2040. Convenience stores with quick charge won't completely replace gas pumps so there is the whole thing about how convenience stores will remodel to accommodate both gas pumps and charge stations. Even though whack jobs at the federal level (encouraged by whack job enviros) will likely push for elimination of ICE and fuel stations, if someone buys a car in 2027 with an ICE and in 2033 can no longer use it, they will be really pissed off. Then, cash for ICE clunkers will have to buy back ICE vehicles. And we'll have to be guaranteed that our grid can supply every ounce of power that is needed.

There will be no course anytime soon that pure EV only can serve the entire market, and because such, it will naturally be a limited market for quite awhile. If that ends up being 40% of the market, that is still a lot of cars no doubt. But it will be proof that it is a limited market, new and more importantly, resale. It is always tough to sell a new car that is bludgeoned with the prospect of a limited resale market, and then values tank, and the spiral begins.

Just be sure to read about the value of lease return Nissan Leafs sometime.

When those leafs bottom out in value however, they will become popular for people to buy as a cheap 3rd car, that is a neighborhood runaround.

I do not see an end to ICE unless government regulations drive them from the market. Contrary to what some folks like to believe in the EV segment we are not going to be out of oil anything soon so we have time to work on these other options.

Our first issue may be where will the power come from?

Wind and Solar will not replace power plants in total. We are not building nukes and the president has tried to shut down coal that was just stopped for now this week. Increased in demand and increases in cost will be for sure so electric in the end may not be cheaper.

My local power supplier is crying for rate hikes now and they need to put in new plants and do some major reconstruction of their systems. They even took their Nuke off line this week.

Our power grid is not in all that good shape.

Like Jimmy Buffet says There is a Lot to Think About.

oldshurst442 · February 13, 2016

I do not see an end to ICE unless government regulations drive them from the market. Contrary to what some folks like to believe in the EV segment we are not going to be out of oil anything soon so we have time to work on these other options.

http://www.carscoops.com/2015/12/eight-us-states-and-four-european.html

http://hybridtechcar.com/germany-and-some-other-countries-are-going-to-completely-ban-on-their-expensive-cars-with-internal-combustion-engines-by-2050/

The artices above have some countries wanting to ban ICE cars by 2050

The article below has California pushing for that by 2030.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/08/california-air-resources-board-automakers/

so yeah...and with the Canada-US-Mexico clean energy deal that was signed today...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-us-mexico-nafta-clean-energy-mou-1.3444675

That thought is... a very real threat...

ocnblu · February 13, 2016

Greenpeace, eh?

ocnblu · February 13, 2016

According to the Bolt site's map feature, I can commute back and forth to work for 4 days on a charge, with 6 miles left over to enjoy (more like fret over) on other journeys. But is that on a 30 degree day, or a 70 degree day? What if it is raining? Snowing? What if I am hauling people, or things? There is no place to plug it in at work. What if I decide to take a different route home for some reason and get stuck in traffic?

What if???

EDIT...

Mr Cubical has got you on one angle, Ive got you on another...

You are probably gonna be hospitalized with a heart attack and ulcers before you would drain your battery on your EV the way you worry about...nothing.

Skeeterbite, I am not the only one with these questions. They are legitimate.

oldshurst442 · February 13, 2016

Thanx for the downvote Blu...

But Blu...

YOUR country...and mine...signed a bill today...

THAT is the sign that OIL...is dying off...not for plastics...nor perfumes and soaps and all other shyte that crude oil is responsible for...but for powering automobiles...

Again...down vote all you want...someday soon...you will grow up...

ocnblu · February 13, 2016

I am a grown ass man who wants nothing to do with electric cars. And at 5'5", I am not going to grow much any time soon.

"Signed a bill"? What bill?

Edited February 13, 2016 by ocnblu

hyperv6 · February 13, 2016

The resale market will do a lot to determine what cars and powertrain configuration will rule out with EV's. Pure EV's may have an extremely limited resale market, because the range anxiety issue may not be something people are willing to deal with when buying a car second hand.

Electric infrastructure is growing...and give it another year or two...it will start growing by leaps and bounds...

To me I always fill up at half a tank. Two reasons. One that is what I use in a week and two you never know when you may get caught out. I remember the lines for gas on 9/11. Also when the east coast went down with the black out a few years ago there were few places to get gas. I was one of the few with power in Ohio for some odd reason and our one station was open but they ran out of gas as everyone filled up asap.

In this day and age you never know if you may need the gas So I try to never get caught short. Not that I am a conspiracy guy but in this day and age one dirty bomb could make you need to bug out fast. I have never been given specifics but my friend in the FBI says to be prepared as you never know.

I never thought of that....and yes...these are words of wisdom to live by in this day and age...even if I do live in Montreal Quebec, Canada...

A country that is considered "peaceful" by many, even by those terrorists...from time to time...Canada does get mentioned that its a terrorist target...and even if it is in the Frenchie part of Canada, a place that wants to separate from Canada and Montreal...a very cosmopolitan, multi-cultural city...

In the 1970s....with all those gas stations around...many motorists were left stranded because there simply was no gasoline available...

The last picture looks like its a gas station in the middle of nowhere...imagine running out of gasoline there?

These folks that would do harm today would take out as many French Canadians as they could take out as they do not care how progressive and peaceful you claim to be.

Seriously the Canadian government needs to tighten things up. You already have had terror attacks and there will be more.

Like it or not we are at war. Or at least they are at war with us and more will die unless we take some more harsh measure. Out lax leadership here now has put us in a bind. I pity who ever gets in office next as it will take them 8 years just to fix some of the damage.

ocnblu · February 13, 2016

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-us-mexico-nafta-clean-energy-mou-1.3444675

Canada-US-Mexico clean energy deal...signed...TODAY!!!

Green energy boom
"It's the fact we are recognizing that our energy relationship is more than just oil, and there is more to the Canada-U.S. relationship than the Keystone pipeline," said Keith Stewart, head of Greenpeace Canada's climate and energy campaign.

Stewart points out a type of green NAFTA is new territory for the three governments

"This is the kind of thing that has been done on trade, it hasn't been done on climate change. If this is a first step in that direction, it's a good thing," Stewart told CBC News.

Clean energy groups predict today's agreement means the continent's industry is about to take off.

"It shows how seriously our countries will be starting to take clean energy." said Clare Demerse, senior policy adviser with Clean Energy Canada.

Demerse says it could create a bigger market for Canadian renewable energy.

For example, the U.S. Clean Power Plan allows coal-burning states to import clean Canadian energy that has come online since 2012 to reduce their emissions. Despite a recent court-imposed delay, most environmentalists believe that plan will eventually proceed with a big demand for Canadian hydro, solar and wind power.

There could also be a chance to develop a continent-wide infrastructure for electric cars.

"All three countries manufacture cars, all three are thinking about the next generation of cars," Demerse said.

"There is a lot they can do together to make sure, for example, you could drive an electric car anywhere on the continent and know you can charge it."

Electric cars are the future...internal combustion engine cars are dying...a very slow death...but they are dying...

This whole thing is pure B.S.! hahaha

oldshurst442 · February 13, 2016

According to the Bolt site's map feature, I can commute back and forth to work for 4 days on a charge, with 6 miles left over to enjoy (more like fret over) on other journeys. But is that on a 30 degree day, or a 70 degree day? What if it is raining? Snowing? What if I am hauling people, or things? There is no place to plug it in at work. What if I decide to take a different route home for some reason and get stuck in traffic?

What if???

EDIT...

Mr Cubical has got you on one angle, Ive got you on another...

You are probably gonna be hospitalized with a heart attack and ulcers before you would drain your battery on your EV the way you worry about...nothing.

Skeeterbite, I am not the only one with these questions. They are legitimate.

No they are not...

The Bolt has a range of 200 miles...

Like a car...the way you drive dictates your range...

Sure...batteries are more fickle than black gold...

but...there are solutions...in the very near future....

http://www.gizmag.com/uk-electric-highways-trial/38897/

wireless charging highways...

ev-lane.jpg?auto=format&ch=Width%2CDPR&f

I posted this before...but..some of you behave like little children and just ignore the reality of what is going on in the world regarding ELECTRIC SOLUTIONS...

Dude...Canada-US-Mexico signed a clean energy deal today...

Dude...before XMAS...in France...many countries are in agreement to ban ICE cars...TOYOTA themselves want to stop producing ICE cars by that time...

All this is for 40-50-60years from now...I understand that...your argument is now...2016...

Dude...many Quebecois have adopted Chevy the Volt, the Tesla Model S...and they have adapted quite well to it...

YOU refuse to see the writing on the wall...

I dont care what you do...just stop being childish in your thought process....or continue...but dont act like electric cars are dying...its the ICE cars that are dying a slow death...

I am a grown ass man who wants nothing to do with electric cars. And at 5'5", I am not going to grow much any time soon.

"Signed a bill"? What bill?

You are a grown CHILD...

The link is above...signed today...

Its nice of me to keep you current...yes pun intended.

PS...I dont care if you want an electric car or not...

Stop with the BULL$h! facts you like to spew about range anxiety and the like...in 2016...range anxiety is non-existent...

Stop with the false information regarding electric vehicles...

Dont ever buy one...just stop with the opinion based "facts" that you like to throw around...

Stop going "LALALLALALA I CANT HEAR YOU!!!" like a child...and INFORM yourself...dont EVER buy en electric car...just be INFORMED!

Edited February 13, 2016 by oldshurst442

ocnblu · February 13, 2016

How do you know this? There is no preponderance of evidence to support your misguided position.

oldshurst442 · February 13, 2016

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-us-mexico-nafta-clean-energy-mou-1.3444675

Canada, the United States and Mexico have signed a trilateral agreement that could mark the start of discussions on the first North American accord on climate change and clean energy.

Natural Resources Minister Jim Carr, U.S. Secretary of Energy Ernest Moniz and Mexico's secretary of energy, Pedro Joaquín Coldwell, signed a memorandum of understanding on North American climate change and energy collaboration in Winnipeg on Friday.

"As of today all of our North American energy data and energy maps are gathered on one platform for the first time. This is significant because it allows us to think about continental energy integration in a new light," Carr said Friday morning in Winnipeg.

"This memorandum takes the important strides we've made in recent years towards a continental approach to energy and expands our relationship in support of an even more ambitious clean-energy environmental agreement."

Moniz credited today's agreement to the "tremendous" change in the the energy scene in North America, the "revived relationship" between the three countries and "the change of government here in Canada."

"The trilateral relationship certainly is not missing a beat," the U.S. energy secretary said on Friday.

"If anything, I think it's accelerating even more with the very strong Canadian commitment in the areas of energy, environment and innovation."

Coldwell, who spoke in Spanish through a translator, said wind power is the fastest growing energy source in Mexico.

He spoke of the three countries' "common objectives" to offer competitive electricity rates from clean-energy sources supported by sustainable infrastructure.

Sources told CBC News the emphasis going forward will be on a "low-carbon future" for North America.

Finding that 'sweet spot'

This essentially kickstarts the detailed, behind the scenes work needed for a continent-wide agreement that will enable all three countries to work together on clean energy and options to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

The North American nations have been working toward this since last May, when they set up a working group on continent-wide clean energy co-operation.

There have also been clear signs it's a big priority under the new Liberal government that campaigned on the need for such a deal.

Carr acknowledged that with more job losses on the horizon as oil and gas prices continue to plunge, the road ahead will not be an easy one.

"Our challenge … is to use this very low spot in the commodity cycle to make transformational change; to find that sweet spot between resource development and environmental stewardship," Carr said on Friday.

The briefing notes for the new minister of natural resources, acquired by CBC under Access to Information, refers to "repairing our relationship with our North American partners" on energy and environment.

"A renewed memorandum of understanding could form the starting point for more far-reaching discussions on a continental clean energy agreement and climate change," the briefing notes say.

It's also significant because for the first time since 2008, when the Keystone XL pipeline was proposed, the energy discussions between the U.S. and Canada are not dominated by pipelines.

Green energy boom

"It's the fact we are recognizing that our energy relationship is more than just oil, and there is more to the Canada-U.S. relationship than the Keystone pipeline," said Keith Stewart, head of Greenpeace Canada's climate and energy campaign.

Stewart points out a type of green NAFTA is new territory for the three governments

"This is the kind of thing that has been done on trade, it hasn't been done on climate change. If this is a first step in that direction, it's a good thing," Stewart told CBC News.

Clean energy groups predict today's agreement means the continent's industry is about to take off.

"It shows how seriously our countries will be starting to take clean energy." said Clare Demerse, senior policy adviser with Clean Energy Canada.

Demerse says it could create a bigger market for Canadian renewable energy.

For example, the U.S. Clean Power Plan allows coal-burning states to import clean Canadian energy that has come online since 2012 to reduce their emissions. Despite a recent court-imposed delay, most environmentalists believe that plan will eventually proceed with a big demand for Canadian hydro, solar and wind power.

There could also be a chance to develop a continent-wide infrastructure for electric cars.

"All three countries manufacture cars, all three are thinking about the next generation of cars," Demerse said.

"There is a lot they can do together to make sure, for example, you could drive an electric car anywhere on the continent and know you can charge it."

Sources say the timing of today's announcement is not a coincidence. Domestic climate policy will reach a new chapter next month when Prime Minister Justin Trudeau meets with the premiers in Vancouver to talk about a national climate strategy. A week later, Trudeau heads to Washington for an official state dinner with U.S. President Barack Obama.

Demerse thinks today's agreement puts the two countries back on the same page.

"For years the American government has been trying to talk to Canada about clean energy and unfortunately they kept hearing back about pipelines," he said. "It was a bit of a dialogue of the deaf.

"Now, we are finally catching up to where our allies are, and that will make the conversation and relationship a more effective one."

The energy ministers met Thursday in Winnipeg ahead of the official signing Friday morning.

oldshurst442 · February 13, 2016

Blu you think that this does not involve ICE cars?

Grown ass man you say?