"A 5/8 Ton Truck": C/D Tests Nissan Titan Cummins

[El Kabong]

The gist of it appears to be that the only way to neuter the righteous 5.0 Cummins is to overwhelm it with flab, which at 7200-plus pounds is precisely what Nissan did.

Anyhoo, here's the link:

http://m.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-nissan-titan-xd-test-review

[ccap41]

Damn. I still have high hopes for its performs when not fully loaded and full can and bed. I have to believe it can shave 1000lbs just configured differently.

I definitely thought in any configuration it would wallop the 3.0 Ram. Though I don't think a single sole expected a weight north of 7000lbs.

I'm curious if that configuration would still be good for towing 12,000lbs. They never touched on that.

[Drew Dowdell]

A friend of mine who works for a different publication has driven it already.  He said that the fuel economy was atrocious for the diesel even when it wasn't towing. 

[balthazar]

My '04 2500HD weighs around 6200 (with me in it & the rear seat area holding a couple hundred pounds of tools, it's weighed 65xx lbs on the scale at the scrapyard (after the bed was emptied) . I have 1.6 more liters, in the same neighborhood power ratings, yet I average around 16.3 MPG. It's rated for 12K towing. Nissan is a good 10 years behind the benchmark here.

Edited November 15, 2015 by balthazar

[El Kabong]

My EcoDiesel weighs 6300 with hard tonneau installed and it gets similar acceleration and far better FE, although I'll grant it is "only" rated to about 8,000 pounds.

[Drew Dowdell]

My EcoDiesel weighs 6300 with hard tonneau installed and it gets similar acceleration and far better FE, although I'll grant it is "only" rated to about 8,000 pounds.

 

That sounds like it is most likely an engine limitation rather than a frame limitation..... the Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel is rated for about 7,500.

[El Kabong]

Oh, it's almost certainly an engine thing. Like I said, she's a big rig, especially for a half-ton. Even eight gears can't completely hide the mass. But FE is still around 10-11l/100km so I can't complain too much.

[ocnblu]

Not exactly a Li'l Hustler now, is it?

[El Kabong]

Not exactly a Li'l Hustler now, is it?

I didn't realize that the Titan's frame situation was as confuzzled as it was. As I read it the original frame is going to live on mostly unchanged for some applications.

[FordCosworth]

Damn. I still have high hopes for its performs when not fully loaded and full can and bed. I have to believe it can shave 1000lbs just configured differently.

I definitely thought in any configuration it would wallop the 3.0 Ram. Though I don't think a single sole expected a weight north of 7000lbs.

I'm curious if that configuration would still be good for towing 12,000lbs. They never touched on that.

" At its best, the 2016 Titan can tow 12,314 pounds and handle 2,091 pounds of payload. Yes, that means the Titan XD can tow more than any of its half-ton peers, but just barely. The Ford F-150, when properly equipped, has a maximum tow rating of 12,200 pounds, which is within spitting distance of the Titan XD. That same Ford has a maximum payload rating of 3,270 pounds, which is far and away higher than the Titan XD's max rating. Chevy's latest Silverado 1500 and its GMC Sierra twin can tow 12,000 pounds and boast payload ratings of 2,060, again bumping up very close to that of the Titan XD.

The great equalizer in the towing and payload ratings game is curb weight. In its lightest configuration, which not coincidentally is the one that its max tow and payload ratings are derived from, the Titan XD weighs 6,709 pounds, and its Gross Vehicle Weight Rating comes in at 8,800 pounds. Subtract the former from the latter and you've got max payload. Put simply, the Titan XD is a truck of titanic weight. The F-150 we're comparing it to rolls in with a base curb weight of 4,489 pounds, thanks in no small part to its aluminum bodywork

These numbers are for the base, two-wheel-drive Titan S. But here's the bad news: each step up the ladder – from S to SV, SL, and finally Platinum Reserve – brings with it a commensurate step down in towing and payload headroom. Adding four-wheel drive to the base Titan XD lowers the max tow rating to 12,038 pounds and has a similar effect on payload. In its most luxurious, leather-lined form, the Titan XD Platinum Reserve 4x4 can tow 10,608 pounds and has a payload rating of 1,470 pounds. In an effort to make a comparison to the highest-rated half-ton we could find, a 2016 Ford F-150 King Ranch Super Crew with a 6.5-foot bed, four-wheel drive, the 3.5-liter EcoBoost V6, and six-speed automatic transmission is rated to tow 11,700 pounds and has a payload rating of 2,060 pounds, both better than the Titan XD Platinum Reserve. "

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/11/15/2016-nissan-titan-xd-first-drive-review-video/

[FordCosworth]

My EcoDiesel weighs 6300 with hard tonneau installed and it gets similar acceleration and far better FE, although I'll grant it is "only" rated to about 8,000 pounds.

That sounds like it is most likely an engine limitation rather than a frame limitation..... the Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel is rated for about 7,500.

Actually it's a Gross Vehicle Weight thing. Rams 1500 are heavy ( High Curb Weight and low GVW rating ). When measured against their GVW, they have low payload ratings, which hurt tow ratings. They all go hand in hand. PUTC had a good write up on it recently and used a Ram 1500 as their example. I'll see if I can find it. Edited November 16, 2015 by Burnt Valve LS7

[El Kabong]

While the proliferation of diesel engines into classes smaller than 3/4 ton will doubtless invite more comparison with gasoline powerplants, the FE and durability advantages diesels offer usually win over those predisposed to thrift. Turbocharged gasoline engines do not tend to do well in real-world FE as the vehicles they drive grow heavier.

[FordCosworth]

" The Rebel had a full tank of gas and an empty bed and cab, and weighed in at 5,900 pounds. We then subtracted 5,900 from 6,800 pounds ( Gross Vehicle Weight ) to get our 900-pound payload figure. Our test Rebel's door label showed 947 pounds of payload capacity. (You can find a midsize or half-ton pickup's manufacturer payload number on a label inside the driver's side door.)

All this is interesting because we were told the short-bed Rebel crew cab (with a Hemi V-8 and a RamBox) had a towing capacity of around 10,000 pounds. That seemed odd to us, because it doesn't follow the Society of Automotive Engineers' J2807 standard requirement of 10 percent of towing capacity for the recommended tongue weight. Following that formula, the Rebel's 10,000 pounds of towing capacity would have put us 100 pounds over our 900-pound max payload capacity, and that's before adding a driver, passenger or cargo. We should also note that SAE J2807 criteria recommends, before adding tongue weight, adding 300 pounds for passengers as well as 25 to 65 pounds for the receiver and trailer hitch or weight-distributing hitch.

Discarding a 9,000- or 10,000-pound trailer capacity for the Rebel and backing into what the real towing capacity should be based on the SAE requirements, here's what we get: Using 900 pounds of calculated payload capacity and subtracting 300 pounds for passengers leaves us with 600 pounds or so of payload. That means a maximum towing capacity of 6,000 pounds if we use the SAE-recommended 10 percent tongue weight number. But that assumes we can't or won't add any cargo to the bed or carry any passengers in the backseat. If we add a few passengers and cargo, we're down to 300 pounds or less of payload capacity. Does that mean real-world towing capacity — based on the SAE J2807 recommendations — of around 3,000 pounds for a full-size half-ton pickup truck with a V-8? "

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2015/10/a-weighty-issue-calculating-real-world-payload-towing-capacities.html

Edited November 16, 2015 by Burnt Valve LS7

[El Kabong]

Cool, insofar that it's a gasoline-powered truck you are citing.

Perhaps another diesel example would be more appropriate.

Edited November 16, 2015 by El Kabong

[FordCosworth]

My EcoDiesel weighs 6300 with hard tonneau installed and it gets similar acceleration and far better FE, although I'll grant it is "only" rated to about 8,000 pounds.

What's the GVW rating? 6900lbs? That's the true gage for towing limits.

My EcoDiesel weighs 6300 with hard tonneau installed and it gets similar acceleration and far better FE, although I'll grant it is "only" rated to about 8,000 pounds.

What's the GVW rating? 6800 - 6900lbs? That's the true gage for towing limits. Edited November 16, 2015 by Burnt Valve LS7

[El Kabong]

I dunno, off the top of my head. My primary motivation for buying it was durability, thrift, and a good ride.

Now, that Nissan.

7200 pounds is too darn much for a sub-3/4 ton truck.

Edited November 16, 2015 by El Kabong

[FordCosworth]

I dunno, off the top of my head. My primary motivation for buying it was durability, thrift, and a good ride.

Next time you go to drive, check the door frame. It'll tell you. Then you can calculate it's real tow rating

[El Kabong]

Eh, it's all good.

Thanks for caring tho

[FordCosworth]

Eh, it's all good.

Thanks for caring tho

You're welcome. Just trying to help the mislead and misinformed. Because by not knowing the limits, insurance and warranty could then be void.

[El Kabong]

Good.

Now, really. The Nissan...

12,500 units sold last year. I'm a bit surprised they didn't shutter the program entirely, but the new lineup should help them quite a bit, wot?

Edited November 16, 2015 by El Kabong

[G. David Felt]

Good.

Now, really. The Nissan...

12,500 units sold last year. I'm a bit surprised they didn't shutter the program entirely, but the new lineup should help them quite a bit, wot?

 

Not sure the diesel will help them that much, people do not see Nissan as a truck that can handle commercial jobs let alone consumer jobs as to why they only sold 12,500 and have plenty of old Titans on the lots. Dead Product line that should have been killed off. This seems to be more of a pet project of an executive who is trying to justify his job and those below him for having done not much over the last few years.

 

Nothing special or great about the Nissan truck line. Would have been better for them to invest in their auto and cuv lines with the money.

[ccap41]

I'm just disappointed because I thought this was going to be a beast. Maybe in its lesser trims it still will be. But at 7200lbs that's quiet some heft to carry around.

[G. David Felt]

I'm just disappointed because I thought this was going to be a beast. Maybe in its lesser trims it still will be. But at 7200lbs that's quiet some heft to carry around.

Doubt it, not sure why or how this got through in development, but this is a pig no matter how you look at it. FAILURE!!!

[ccap41]

I don't think it's really a failure if it's actually capable in its lesser trims. Most people that are buying a truck to do work aren't buying them in mega cab, full leather, and full bed. It's made to carry an ass-ton of weight for it's class. While it doesn't tow much more than just an F150 the weight of itself should lend it to be a more secure haul. But, ya know what..as of yet it hasn't proven anything so I'm not as optimistic as I was a week ago.

[cp-the-nerd]

The truck is a joke. What is the niche this attempts to fill? Are they (Nissan) trying to push it as an "HD-lite"? The capacities are in line with American half ton trucks, and it fails to deliver any sort of diesel efficiency advantage because of the 7000 lb curb weight.

 

The 9+ second 0-60 run makes it slower than the Ram ecodiesel, which nets mid-upper 20s for fuel economy and has a slick 8-speed auto for surfing the torque wave. This thing drives like a dog and offers no clear advantage to a more nimble American V8 half ton, and god help it next to a real HD truck.

[ccap41]

Well, had it not underperformed I think it would have filled that gap very well actually. An adequately sized diesel v8 that isn't under powered or overpowered that SHOULD have returned good mileage would have been great.. it just underperformed on all of those fronts.

 

I mean take the 7200lbs out of the equation and just think of a 5500lb Ram/Chevy/Ford with a 5.0 Cummins in it. That would be a fantastic truck. They just..screwed up somewhere..

[cp-the-nerd]

Yeah, if the truck had fuel economy in the range of 16/24 mpg and accelerated in a more usable 8-second range, it would be a solid package with the Cummins name. Basically, they need to put this drivetrain in the non-XD Titan, assuming it weighs a couple thousand lbs less.

[ccap41]

Well from MT's Real MPG testing it was right in the middle of the two Ram diesels mpg-wise.

 

"Motor Trend was able to snag an example long enough to run the diesel Titan XD through its Real MPG test. The result was 15.8 city, 20.8 highway, 17.7 combined miles per gallon."

 

"The puts the tweener Titan - said by Nissan to have a max payload of 2,000 pounds and a tow rating of "12,000-plus pounds" - betwixt the two diesels in the Ram truck line, the only other diesel trucks to far tested in the Real MPG program. The four-wheel-drive Ram 3.0-liter 1500 EcoDiesel Crew Cab scored 18.3 city, 27.2 highway, and 21.6 combined, the four-wheel-drive Ram 3500HD Laramie Longhorn Crew Cab with a 6.7-liter Cummins returned 14.1 city, 17.6 highway, and 15.5 combined mpg. We'll know more when we get into it next month, but the bell for round one is rung."

[G. David Felt]

Still a Failure in my book as they did not clearly beat the Americans.

[Frisky Dingo]

This truck is going to  be a bust.

 

5/8 Ton Truck is being generous. Even if it were true, it looks to be 7/8 ton truck pricing.

[Suaviloquent]

I think the pricing information so far actually does the truck some favour. Granted, it is the XD model pricing, but you do get more truck. Not less, better truck, just more truck. Some people might need that.

 

There's also the non XD, but I think all the information on it so far says it's going to be using the old chassis. Not a lot of innovation here. 

 

Some reviewers did say how the truck tows with a lot of confidence, the kind you would really only get with heavy duties.

 

However, this clearly isn't going to be like how the Canyonado twins (that entered an under-served niche) are perpetually sold-out since launch

 

What's most intriguing to me is that even though the XD is a new truck from the ground up, everything from the looks of it feels conventional. Like I feel I've seen many parts of the interior just cribbed from past Nissan BOF vehicles, how the design is unoriginal yet at the same time just distinct yet uninspired and, well and C/D was right.

 

This truck just has no ambition to be great. Just par for the course. Not bad, but still the worst you could do.

[El Kabong]

If you get the regular Titan it isn't even all-new apparently. The frame on the half-ton version is mostly carryover from the last one, at least according to the article I cited.

[Suaviloquent]

If you get the regular Titan it isn't even all-new apparently. The frame on the half-ton version is mostly carryover from the last one, at least according to the article I cited.

 

Well, maybe they don't need a brand-new frame. When the Titan came out, it had some pretty stout ratings for towing. I'm still wondering what it comes out to be. But seriously, if an F150 and Sierrado weigh more than half a ton less, that's not going to be competitive in terms of advancement in design at all. But it's not as though previous gen trucks were all that bad to begin with.

 

I think of the regular 2016/17 Nissan Titan as a competitor to the Ram 1500 before it got EcoDiesel.

 

By that I mean the Nissan is a truck that's already old, becoming even more obsolete despite the redesign. Yeah Nissan better be priced like a midsize to sell this somewhat cartoonish rendition of a truck.

[El Kabong]

Anything is a step up from 12,000 sales last year. I didn't realize it was that bad-they'll be dancing in the streets if the new one breaks 40,000 this year.

[G. David Felt]

Anything is a step up from 12,000 sales last year. I didn't realize it was that bad-they'll be dancing in the streets if the new one breaks 40,000 this year.

Lets try for doubling existing sales first with 24K in sales.

[ocnblu]

Please be kind, dudes.  Nissan will sell at least 12,500 new Titans next year.  w00t.