FCA Drops Warranty from 100k. Follows GM to 60K

[Cmicasa the Great]

Fiat Chrysler will abandon its 5-year/100,000-mile powertrain warranty in the United States for the 2016 model year in favor of a 5-year/60,000-mile guarantee.

The move follows a similar change in March by General Motors, which reduced the 5-year powertrain warranties on its Chevrolet and GMC vehicles from 100,000 to 60,000 miles.

“Following changes already made by competitors, FCA US is adjusting powertrain warranty coverage for 2016 model year vehicles to be more consistent with industry practices,” FCA said in a statement to Automotive News. “For 2016MY, Chrysler, Jeep, Dodge and Ram Truck vehicles with gasoline engines will be covered by a 5-year/60,000 mile powertrain warranty.”

An FCA spokeswoman said that the automaker’s basic bumper-to-bumper warranty will remain at 3 years/36,000 miles. Fiat vehicles come with a 4-year/50,000-mile warranty.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20150527/RETAIL05/150529876/fiat-chrysler-reducing-powertrain-warranties-to-60-000-miles-for-2016?template=mobile

For those who don't remember at Mt.. when GM did this certain members were talking more trash than a lil bit. Let their back pedalling begin.. Lol

[SalesmanSean]

It only makes sense, with just a couple makes keeping with those longer warranties why stay out there on that ledge by themselves.  Who really was left with that kind of warranty, Hyundai and Kia?  Though they have come a long way over the years in their perception of quality, I would venture that those are not the companies (company) you would want to be seen as most closely compared to.  Getting in line with the rest of the Detroit folks made the most sense.  Maybe I've become a little more glass half full as I've aged, but to me lower lengths on these warranties is a good thing.  I know some will say it looks like a lack of confidence in your product, but I feel the opposite way.  If you're lowering the warranty lengths, to me it says that you're confident that your product didn't need another 40k miles of warranty, where if you're giving me 100k versus everyone else's 60k, I'm wondering what you're expecting to go wrong in that extra mileage.

[Drew Dowdell]

It is of little significance for most people.  most people don't do more than 12,000 miles a year so they were aging out of the warranty before the miles were up.  This is a liability issue that makes the accountants nervous. 

[TAF]

I rarely put more than 60K on a car in 5 years anyways. However I own many cars so...

[El Kabong]

I'm on pace to do it in my Longhorn. But I doubt I'll still have it by that point. To be honest, offering that kind of warranty on a modern driveline of nearly any kind is futile.

[Cory Wolfe]

I understand the logic behind following the standard set by competitors, but I don't necessarily think it will help them. If you have a company that, say, is at the bottom of nearly every reliability/dependability study, how do you increase consumer confidence in your product by reducing the warranty? As a would-be car buyer, checking out each competitor within a segment and employed with such knowledge, this would raise red flags for me. 

[Cmicasa the Great]

I dunno.. with a Fiat.. it may be a weee more necessary to hold on to that 100K number

 

[Cmicasa the Great]

I understand the logic behind following the standard set by competitors, but I don't necessarily think it will help them. If you have a company that, say, is at the bottom of nearly every reliability/dependability study, how do you increase consumer confidence in your product by reducing the warranty? As a would-be car buyer, checking out each competitor within a segment and employed with such knowledge, this would raise red flags for me. 

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure Sergio saw GM doing it and decided to follow. It was most likely thrown on the table a cost saving measure as will consider the amount of debt that the company currently carries

[Drew Dowdell]

 

I understand the logic behind following the standard set by competitors, but I don't necessarily think it will help them. If you have a company that, say, is at the bottom of nearly every reliability/dependability study, how do you increase consumer confidence in your product by reducing the warranty? As a would-be car buyer, checking out each competitor within a segment and employed with such knowledge, this would raise red flags for me. 

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure Sergio saw GM doing it and decided to follow. It was most likely thrown on the table a cost saving measure as will consider the amount of debt that the company currently carries

 

 

Yup, it is a move to placate accountants and investors.....however, real world impact for purchasers is very minor though there may be a large impact on perception.

 

I do wonder how much longer Kia and Hyundai will keep theirs up.

[Stew]

Oh Casa, shush.  No big deal and not surprising and why not post the 2015 dependability study

 

 

Unfortunately I couldn't find the 2015 IQS

 

[cp-the-nerd]

Holy crap, Stew. Fix your post.

[TAF]

What was wrong with his post or did he already fix it?

[Stew]

Crud, stupid links didn't post right lol.

[Stew]

It won't let me edit, so hopefully this will show the right chart for 2015.

 

[Cmicasa the Great]

^^^^^ but Stew.. I think my point is made with that chart as well. Lol. With exception to Ram, every FCA brand is below the industry average. Fiat itself is last place

[cp-the-nerd]

What was wrong with his post or did he already fix it?

 

On my screen his post shows the same exact giant J.D. Power chart twice. I wasted a couple minutes of my life trying to figure out what he was comparing before realizing it was a mistake.

[Cmicasa the Great]

Oh Casa, shush.  No big deal and not surprising and why not post the 2015 dependability study

 

 

 

 

 

Just saw the question.. sorry.

 

Uuuum because the 2015 one is damn near identical    

[Suaviloquent]

Well that's the thing. There's a quantitative number of problems and then the qualitative; the exent of the problems.  We need both.

[daves87rs]

I understand the logic behind following the standard set by competitors, but I don't necessarily think it will help them. If you have a company that, say, is at the bottom of nearly every reliability/dependability study, how do you increase consumer confidence in your product by reducing the warranty? As a would-be car buyer, checking out each competitor within a segment and employed with such knowledge, this would raise red flags for me. 

 

 

Thinking the exact thing....

[Intrepidation]

This is pretty common practice in other industries too. For example, "premium" car battery warranties have got down from 5 year (3 year replacement, 2 year pro-rated) down to 3 year free replacement. Some parts stores started doing this, and other followed sighting "industry practices".

[G. David Felt]

Amazing the badge snobs who think Land Rover is so awesome with their off road capability and yet they are just one notch above Fiat for the worst built auto's. Not sure how it can do well off road when it can barely stay running in the inner city.

[hyperv6]

This was to save cost but in the case of FCA they also have the most vehicles in the top ten for defects and already have a repeat buyer percentage of 23%.

 

I think the GM move was fine as their reliability is near the top but with Chrysler the savings here may cost them in the long run.

Guys FCA is in real trouble and if they are not sold, broken up or shut down in 10 years I will be shocked. Sergio has gone public with begging for a dance partner and no one wants to touch them. They have spun off Ferrari and only Jeep and Ram are of any interest to other companies.

Even VW has not taken the bait as they would love to have Ram and Jeep but not the baggage that comes with them.

 

While this is a common practice of a company with solid sales and high quality ratings it is not common practice of a company with questionable reliability and highly discounted prices.

 

God knows I do not want to see them fail as we have lost too many names and brands in the last few years as it is. But they are in real trouble. They have yet to replace the Neon with anything good. They are still selling the old RWD platform cars that needed replaced 5 years ago and is really falling behind the new Mustang and Camaro. The reviews of the new RWD Dart and 200 have been positive but left with a better than what they had but not class leading.

 

To buy time and attention they did the Hellcat that is impressive but it is far from what they really need right now.

Even my in laws just bought a 300 that is nice but it was discounted to the price of a Malibu. That should not be happening.

Every time Sergio goes public begging for a dance partner it just get more trouble for me. He is acting in public with the air of desperation on a topic that is best spoken of behind close boardroom doors.

[ocnblu]

Serge's email:  "Hey Mare, if I cut my warranty to match yours, will you MARRY MEEEEEE?  PLEEEEEEASE?"

[Drew Dowdell]

I don't think FCA is in that much trouble. Jeep and Ram will keep them alive.  Chrysler actually sells okay for only having 3 models.  

 

What they need to do is stop with this fool hardy attempt to make Alfa into the next BMW. 

[Stew]

How is FCA in trouble?  62nd consecutive month of year to year sales increases and first time selling over 200k vehicles in a singe month in nearly a decade, they are fine.  There ae HUE issues with these studies and most of them today have VERY plitle to do with actual reliability and more to do with a new owner bitching because they are too dense to use the features and electronics their cars come with these days.....  I see far more Dodge, CHrysler, and Ram long term tests that have ZERO issues for he full test than I do GM or Ford and even Honda and Toyota these days.  There is nothing wrong with their reliability, just the reliability of these so-called reliability tests. 

[Cmicasa the Great]

Serge's email:  "Hey Mare, if I cut my warranty to match yours, will you MARRY MEEEEEE?  PLEEEEEEASE?"

 

 

The only way.. but in reverse.  

 

[Cmicasa the Great]

How is FCA in trouble?  62nd consecutive month of year to year sales increases and first time selling over 200k vehicles in a singe month in nearly a decade, they are fine.  There ae HUE issues with these studies and most of them today have VERY plitle to do with actual reliability and more to do with a new owner bitching because they are too dense to use the features and electronics their cars come with these days.....  I see far more Dodge, CHrysler, and Ram long term tests that have ZERO issues for he full test than I do GM or Ford and even Honda and Toyota these days.  There is nothing wrong with their reliability, just the reliability of these so-called reliability tests. 

 

 

 

FCA's troubles are Debt. Quite frankly I think that the pairing of Chrysler with Fiat only put off another inevitable BK.. third one for the company for all INTENT. People talk trash about  what Daimler did with Chrysler, but in reality Sergio is kinda doing the same using it to keep Fiat afloat. The only thing that really is, business wise, good going on at FCA right now is Jeep and Ram.. and Ram only because it is selling well via incentives and old as hell underneath. U can bring up Hellcats all day long, but they are not the stuff that make a company stay around very long. Right now FCA isn't moving on new tech or upgrading vehicles in hopes that it can merge with another "sucker." I say another because GM was that sucker back in 2002 when it allowed them (Fiat) to leave the Empire and take $2Billion with nothing relevant to show for the money spent. At the very least it should have taken Ferrari.

 

But alas.. FCA is essentially made up of companies that would find it almost impossible to survive on their own.. or were on their own and had to be combined to sustain life. Sergio, right now cannot afford what's coming on his own.. hence his reason for wanting to merge with someone else... and if U notice he completely avoided the most obvious choice, PSA, because he knows that they are fundamentally in the EXACT same situation. Both need a larger company selling almost or more than double to survive... leaving only GM, VW, Toyota, Hyundai or a combined Nissan/Renault.. and maybe Ford. VW and Toyota won't touch him. GM won't touch him. GM was the most obvious choice because it would automatically put them both at a level so far above all others that the savings opportunities would be worth it. Combining with Ford would make them on par with what Toyota, GM and VW get from Suppliers.. which isn't enough to pull FCA out the $h!. 

 

What is kicking me in the head is with Carlos Ghosn's once great desire to merge with GM.. why is he not talking with.. NO.. moving forward with a merger of Renault/Nissan, FCA, and a pull in of PSA to make the a 14-15 Million a year seller conglomerate. Of course the problem would still remain initially of only one company within bringing home any bacon.. and that one would be French/Japanese, and Ghosn would titty f@#k Sergio daily

[Stew]

I really didn't feel like reading that mess......  So I didn't......  Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, and Ram are profitable and IMHO he 500X should help FCA's bottom line in the states.   Like Ford and GM's European arms they are having issues in Europe, probably more so than the others honetsly, but Chrysler itself has a great product line, ever increasing sales, and isn't going anywhere.  I know, they are not GM so they suck, right?  You would be ok if you weren't so anti-anything not GM.  Heck, GM reduced their warranty first and companies adjusting to match each other is nothing new and FCA is far FAR from the first to do such........

Edited June 2, 2015 by Stew

[SalesmanSean]

I really didn't feel like reading that mess......  So I didn't......  Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, and Ram are profitable and IMHO he 500X should help FCA's bottom line in the states.   Like Ford and GM's European arms they are having issues in Europe, probably more so than the others honetsly, but Chrysler itself has a great product line, ever increasing sales, and isn't going anywhere.  I know, they are not GM so they suck, right?  You would be ok if you weren't so anti-anything not GM.  Heck, GM reduced their warranty first and companies adjusting to match each other is nothing new and FCA is far FAR from the first to do such........

Sorry to say, but I have to agree with Casa here.  If FCA wasn't in pretty bad shape they wouldn't be looking for partners to help keep them afloat.  In reality I think very little of that is the Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep/Ram portion of it, but you can't just look at them separately.  Fiat is not selling here in the states, and the 500X isn't going to make a significant difference.  They're just hemorrhaging too badly in the non-Chrysler portion of things to stay afloat for any extended length of time without either finding a partner or... I don't know, I'm not sure if product-wise there is a way for them to keep going long-term.  I don't like it, and I don't want to see things happen that way, but it does seem to be the way things are heading.  I think it would be easier for them to find help if they tried to sell off the Chrysler bits separate from the rest of FCA, but they can't afford to do that because what is left will just tank even faster.  If they could sell the other divisions they would be better off, but nobody wants to take on that debt, especially since it only shows signs of continuing to grow.  So, they have to try and move the company as a whole, and even still it hasn't proven to be an attractive enough opportunity for anyone to want to step up.  I said before that I think the warranty reduction is fine and makes sense, but that doesn't mean that some of the motivation wasn't also to try and save some money and hold off going under for a little while longer.

[Cmicasa the Great]

I really didn't feel like reading that mess......  So I didn't......  Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, and Ram are profitable and IMHO he 500X should help FCA's bottom line in the states.   Like Ford and GM's European arms they are having issues in Europe, probably more so than the others honetsly, but Chrysler itself has a great product line, ever increasing sales, and isn't going anywhere.  I know, they are not GM so they suck, right?  You would be ok if you weren't so anti-anything not GM.  Heck, GM reduced their warranty first and companies adjusting to match each other is nothing new and FCA is far FAR from the first to do such........

 

 

 

Bud... U are barking up an otherwise "Don't Give a $h! one way or Another " tree. If U didn't read it.. eff I care. I typed what I typed because its the truth. It contains not one bit of fanboism or homage to GM.. in fact it insults GM old management for being dumb enuff to fall for the Agnelli Rope-a-dope. Mary didn't.. She told that clown to put his peter back in his pants and go wag it at the French.. Germans.. or Japanese.

 

The Chrysler Co not including the other parts of FCA are still in debt because FCA is using them for leverage in the market. Saying what U said is like a wife saying that her live-in, loving, and "no chance in hell of divorce" husband, whom all her credit is jointly owned, has 460 FICO, but her's is A-1

 

The warranty thing is no issue for me..I wouldn't buy their $h! if it again.. AGAIN.. had a lifetime limited warranty.. which it did.. then it dropped to 100K.. now down to 60K. 

 

And for the record they suck because they are not American anymore, have, evidenced by YOUR OWN chart, some of the worst reliability on the market.. have old platforms.. and their one.. maybe two tick pony is their Jeep brand which is about as much JEEP as Mini is MINI.. and the Hellcat engine pushing 707HP. What else they Got??? 

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

I really didn't feel like reading that mess......  So I didn't......  Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, and Ram are profitable and IMHO he 500X should help FCA's bottom line in the states.   Like Ford and GM's European arms they are having issues in Europe, probably more so than the others honetsly, but Chrysler itself has a great product line, ever increasing sales, and isn't going anywhere.  I know, they are not GM so they suck, right?  You would be ok if you weren't so anti-anything not GM.  Heck, GM reduced their warranty first and companies adjusting to match each other is nothing new and FCA is far FAR from the first to do such........

Sorry to say, but I have to agree with Casa here.  If FCA wasn't in pretty bad shape they wouldn't be looking for partners to help keep them afloat.  In reality I think very little of that is the Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep/Ram portion of it, but you can't just look at them separately.  Fiat is not selling here in the states, and the 500X isn't going to make a significant difference.  They're just hemorrhaging too badly in the non-Chrysler portion of things to stay afloat for any extended length of time without either finding a partner or... I don't know, I'm not sure if product-wise there is a way for them to keep going long-term.  I don't like it, and I don't want to see things happen that way, but it does seem to be the way things are heading.  I think it would be easier for them to find help if they tried to sell off the Chrysler bits separate from the rest of FCA, but they can't afford to do that because what is left will just tank even faster.  If they could sell the other divisions they would be better off, but nobody wants to take on that debt, especially since it only shows signs of continuing to grow.  So, they have to try and move the company as a whole, and even still it hasn't proven to be an attractive enough opportunity for anyone to want to step up.  I said before that I think the warranty reduction is fine and makes sense, but that doesn't mean that some of the motivation wasn't also to try and save some money and hold off going under for a little while longer.

 

 

 

The effed up part is that if FCA were able to convince buyers, meet demand, and utilize profitable platforms, not to mention manage Alfa, Maserati, and Ferrari they could have a line-up similar to what VW has with Audi, Porsche, and Lambo. They are basically similar in that regard. Fact is the Fiat part of Fiat is probably their worst part of the corp. Chrysler/Lancia, Dodge/Ram/SRT, and Jeep are pretty much the VW/Seat/Skoda equivalent. The problem is that Ferrari is too high end, Maserati is somewhat insignificant in this day and age, and Alfa died in 1990. To save FCA.. Sergio absolutely needs to get with another company. He needs this like a junkie needs not just a fix.. but to get knocked up by a 1970s-90s rock star so she can constantly have a source of funds to get that fix.

OH.. and I would love to see GM still getting Ferrari if Sergio were to put it up for sale. 

[Stew]

Say what you will, it is incorrect, all i am saying, you simply hate them to hate them and I would guess you hated them in 98 before any merger.  The 4 legacy US brands ARE showing profits and ARE showing their best sales in a decade.  Yeah, Fiat isn't doing to great, but neither is everything GM has, IE every Cadillac bu the Escelade, and for the most part Buick as what they do sell is VERY small volume.  If you say the whole company is going to die over ONE of it's subsidieries, you MUST think the same of GM.  And FYI, FCA is showing profits, they are NOT in the red..  

Also, from what i read, what was sent was NOT a request for a Merger, but rather a tech exchange and mutual investment, asGM has already done with Ford and their 10 speed transmission.  you can accomplish a lot more by pooling resouces than ou can alone.....

[Cmicasa the Great]

Say what you will, it is incorrect, all i am saying, you simply hate them to hate them and I would guess you hated them in 98 before any merger.  The 4 legacy US brands ARE showing profits and ARE showing their best sales in a decade.  Yeah, Fiat isn't doing to great, but neither is everything GM has, IE every Cadillac bu the Escelade, and for the most part Buick as what they do sell is VERY small volume.  If you say the whole company is going to die over ONE of it's subsidieries, you MUST think the same of GM.  And FYI, FCA is showing profits, they are NOT in the red..  

Also, from what i read, what was sent was NOT a request for a Merg

 

er, but rather a tech exchange and mutual investment, asGM has already done with Ford and their 10 speed transmission.  you can accomplish a lot more by pooling resouces than ou can alone.....

 

 

Starting to think that U are in denial. Every source on the planet says Sergio asked GM for a merger... He wants a whole bunch of consolidation in fact.

 

The financial issues of FCA have very little to do with Fiat in the U.S... it has everything to do with Fiat minus acquired Chrysler. There is also an issue with transaction pricing and incentives of acquired Chrysler. 4GODSAKE look at the profits.. or lack of.

 

BTW.. The Buick brand is selling over 1 million globally.. but most will only quote U.S. numbers despite the U.S. Numbers being only 25% of its total sales. Buick is up for the year, and its weakness comes from the market wanting CUVs over cars at the moment. Ironically,.. the Encore and Enclave are up 20+% last month

 

 And I love the idiotic attempt, but let's use facts if U are going to try and eff with me..  Cadillac's best selling model this year is the SRX... it was up for last month as well. The Escalade is its second best, and both are most likely equally profitable by percentage due to this being the SRX's 6th year on the market and being partially based on a global platform utilized by other high selling divisions. The XTS isn't doing so bad either, technically.. again on a shared depreciated platform.  When U go for the jugular at least kno what the eff U are talking about. The CTS and ATS are both the slow sellers at Cadillac versus competition, but for reasons to do with selection not quality or lackluster ability.. The ELR really has no competition so what's the gauge? For 2014 Cadillac, in the U.S., dropped 6.5%, but fail to mention that in Global sales it actually went up 6%. 

[Guest Guest]

No denial, read what was actually sent and it was more for tech exchange than a merger

[Drew Dowdell]

Actually, by my reading, Serg wants both.  He wants to merge FCA with someone but he also wants to homogenize technology.... everyone gets the same 2.0T engine..... everyone shares transmissions.

 

He wants to turn the auto industry into the computer industry.   HP didn't build your laptop.... they assembled it using off the shelf parts from many other companies and put an attractive wrapper around it.   Those same parts are used in the Dell and the Apple sitting next to it. 

 

That's what Serg wants to do. ... and to some degree, he's right. 

[Cmicasa the Great]

Actually, by my reading, Serg wants both.  He wants to merge FCA with someone but he also wants to homogenize technology.... everyone gets the same 2.0T engine..... everyone shares transmissions.

 

He wants to turn the auto industry into the computer industry.   HP didn't build your laptop.... they assembled it using off the shelf parts from many other companies and put an attractive wrapper around it.   Those same parts are used in the Dell and the Apple sitting next to it. 

 

That's what Serg wants to do. ... and to some degree, he's right. 

 

 

To some degree... it is essentially already happening, as many of the suppliers are selling to all manufacturers. Engines, some transmissions, and styling are the most exclusive components to each company.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

Actually, by my reading, Serg wants both.  He wants to merge FCA with someone but he also wants to homogenize technology.... everyone gets the same 2.0T engine..... everyone shares transmissions.

 

He wants to turn the auto industry into the computer industry.   HP didn't build your laptop.... they assembled it using off the shelf parts from many other companies and put an attractive wrapper around it.   Those same parts are used in the Dell and the Apple sitting next to it. 

 

That's what Serg wants to do. ... and to some degree, he's right. 

 

 

To some degree... it is essentially already happening, as many of the suppliers are selling to all manufacturers. Engines, some transmissions, and styling are the most exclusive components to each company.

 

 

Right.... Serg is looking to expand that.  The poorness of his timing can be summed up in one word: Takata

[Cmicasa the Great]

No denial, read what was actually sent and it was more for tech exchange than a merger

 

 

Chairman of Fiat/ Chrysler, John Elkann, confirmed  that CEO Sergio Marchionne had sent an email to GM to suggest merging

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

 

Actually, by my reading, Serg wants both.  He wants to merge FCA with someone but he also wants to homogenize technology.... everyone gets the same 2.0T engine..... everyone shares transmissions.

 

He wants to turn the auto industry into the computer industry.   HP didn't build your laptop.... they assembled it using off the shelf parts from many other companies and put an attractive wrapper around it.   Those same parts are used in the Dell and the Apple sitting next to it. 

 

That's what Serg wants to do. ... and to some degree, he's right. 

 

 

To some degree... it is essentially already happening, as many of the suppliers are selling to all manufacturers. Engines, some transmissions, and styling are the most exclusive components to each company.

 

 

Right.... Serg is looking to expand that.  The poorness of his timing can be summed up in one word: Takata

 

 

 

No doubt. True savings might be better found at this point in returning to a time of captive manufacturing. What I would love to see is a GM takeover of Magna... they could do it, and they are GM's main supplier.

[El Kabong]

How is FCA in trouble?  62nd consecutive month of year to year sales increases and first time selling over 200k vehicles in a singe month in nearly a decade, they are fine.  There ae HUE issues with these studies and most of them today have VERY plitle to do with actual reliability and more to do with a new owner bitching because they are too dense to use the features and electronics their cars come with these days.....  I see far more Dodge, CHrysler, and Ram long term tests that have ZERO issues for he full test than I do GM or Ford and even Honda and Toyota these days.  There is nothing wrong with their reliability, just the reliability of these so-called reliability tests.

 

 

 

FCA's troubles are Debt. Quite frankly I think that the pairing of Chrysler with Fiat only put off another inevitable BK.. third one for the company for all INTENT. People talk trash about  what Daimler did with Chrysler, but in reality Sergio is kinda doing the same using it to keep Fiat afloat. The only thing that really is, business wise, good going on at FCA right now is Jeep and Ram.. and Ram only because it is selling well via incentives and old as hell underneath. U can bring up Hellcats all day long, but they are not the stuff that make a company stay around very long. Right now FCA isn't moving on new tech or upgrading vehicles in hopes that it can merge with another "sucker." I say another because GM was that sucker back in 2002 when it allowed them (Fiat) to leave the Empire and take $2Billion with nothing relevant to show for the money spent. At the very least it should have taken Ferrari.

 

But alas.. FCA is essentially made up of companies that would find it almost impossible to survive on their own.. or were on their own and had to be combined to sustain life. Sergio, right now cannot afford what's coming on his own.. hence his reason for wanting to merge with someone else... and if U notice he completely avoided the most obvious choice, PSA, because he knows that they are fundamentally in the EXACT same situation. Both need a larger company selling almost or more than double to survive... leaving only GM, VW, Toyota, Hyundai or a combined Nissan/Renault.. and maybe Ford. VW and Toyota won't touch him. GM won't touch him. GM was the most obvious choice because it would automatically put them both at a level so far above all others that the savings opportunities would be worth it. Combining with Ford would make them on par with what Toyota, GM and VW get from Suppliers.. which isn't enough to pull FCA out the $h!. 

 

What is kicking me in the head is with Carlos Ghosn's once great desire to merge with GM.. why is he not talking with.. NO.. moving forward with a merger of Renault/Nissan, FCA, and a pull in of PSA to make the a 14-15 Million a year seller conglomerate. Of course the problem would still remain initially of only one company within bringing home any bacon.. and that one would be French/Japanese, and Ghosn would titty f@#k Sergio daily

THIS is the big concern I have with Mopar as a whole. Product-wise they are kicking it, but their finances are pretty precarious. My worst fear is that Sergio uses cash from Ram/Jeep/Chrysler in particular to prop up Fiat in Europe. That would be a disaster.

[oldshurst442]

What are FCA's long term plans other than this merger and/or sharing of technologies that Sergio keeps pushing?

 

I havent heard what new RWD platform will underpin the  next generation LX cars.

I havent heard about what Maserati's RWD platform's would be. The only recollection I have is when Sergion got his hands on Chryco., he mentioned that the 300 and a new Maserati based on the 300 will appear.

Ditto for Alfa Romeo. I remember BEFORE Sergio acquired Chryco that he had "huge" plans for Alfa Romeo...you know...because Alfa Romeo was to make its big debut in North America...with at least 4-5 new models. And technically, right about now...as in 2015...Alfa Romeo was supposed to be on its way to be selling close to BMW numbers...what ever happened to that plan?

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

 

How is FCA in trouble?  62nd consecutive month of year to year sales increases and first time selling over 200k vehicles in a singe month in nearly a decade, they are fine.  There ae HUE issues with these studies and most of them today have VERY plitle to do with actual reliability and more to do with a new owner bitching because they are too dense to use the features and electronics their cars come with these days.....  I see far more Dodge, CHrysler, and Ram long term tests that have ZERO issues for he full test than I do GM or Ford and even Honda and Toyota these days.  There is nothing wrong with their reliability, just the reliability of these so-called reliability tests.

 

 

 

FCA's troubles are Debt. Quite frankly I think that the pairing of Chrysler with Fiat only put off another inevitable BK.. third one for the company for all INTENT. People talk trash about  what Daimler did with Chrysler, but in reality Sergio is kinda doing the same using it to keep Fiat afloat. The only thing that really is, business wise, good going on at FCA right now is Jeep and Ram.. and Ram only because it is selling well via incentives and old as hell underneath. U can bring up Hellcats all day long, but they are not the stuff that make a company stay around very long. Right now FCA isn't moving on new tech or upgrading vehicles in hopes that it can merge with another "sucker." I say another because GM was that sucker back in 2002 when it allowed them (Fiat) to leave the Empire and take $2Billion with nothing relevant to show for the money spent. At the very least it should have taken Ferrari.

 

But alas.. FCA is essentially made up of companies that would find it almost impossible to survive on their own.. or were on their own and had to be combined to sustain life. Sergio, right now cannot afford what's coming on his own.. hence his reason for wanting to merge with someone else... and if U notice he completely avoided the most obvious choice, PSA, because he knows that they are fundamentally in the EXACT same situation. Both need a larger company selling almost or more than double to survive... leaving only GM, VW, Toyota, Hyundai or a combined Nissan/Renault.. and maybe Ford. VW and Toyota won't touch him. GM won't touch him. GM was the most obvious choice because it would automatically put them both at a level so far above all others that the savings opportunities would be worth it. Combining with Ford would make them on par with what Toyota, GM and VW get from Suppliers.. which isn't enough to pull FCA out the $h!. 

 

What is kicking me in the head is with Carlos Ghosn's once great desire to merge with GM.. why is he not talking with.. NO.. moving forward with a merger of Renault/Nissan, FCA, and a pull in of PSA to make the a 14-15 Million a year seller conglomerate. Of course the problem would still remain initially of only one company within bringing home any bacon.. and that one would be French/Japanese, and Ghosn would titty f@#k Sergio daily

THIS is the big concern I have with Mopar as a whole. Product-wise they are kicking it, but their finances are pretty precarious. My worst fear is that Sergio uses cash from Ram/Jeep/Chrysler in particular to prop up Fiat in Europe. That would be a disaster.

 

 

 

THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HE IS DOING. Right NOW. 

 

And product-wise, they really only have stand-outs at Jeep.. and their SRT/HC models. That's pretty much it. And that really relies a great deal on the V8.. which is becoming more and more scarce and toxic to a company post 2016 without any real mass-selling efficient cars.

 

 

FCA has relied on North American operations, where sales have risen for 60 straight months, to overcome weakness in Europe, where it made money in the fourth quarter for the first time since 2007.

The dollar's gain versus the euro enhances the margin coming from U.S.-built SUVs and trucks when the company converts those earnings into euros. The euro tumbled 21 percent against the dollar in the 12 months through April 27.

The company reported cash of 21.9 billion euros, down from 23 billion euros in the first quarter of 2014. FCA said it had a gross industrial debt of 33.3 billion euros, down from 33.7 billion euros it had at the same point in 2014.

Autonews Europe

[Cmicasa the Great]

I will add that the Chrysler 200 has strong sales right now, but a strong amount is coming from Fleet sales as it is a replacement car for both the previous 200 and the Avenger.. which sold on the same lots everyday of the year before. The 200 is a much better car than either, but it still isn't the epitome of efficiency.. thus my statement about mass efficient vehicles to off-set CAFE penalties of selling the SRT models and Ram

[Stew]

All i read is blah, blah, blah.  For cafe we have diesels in the Ram and GC, there are new 4 cylinders coming in roughly a year, do some freaking research and ou see they are not being idle at all and their debt IS dropping.  You do not like them and you DO want to see them fail apparently.  i laugh everytime I see someone singing gloom and doom for Mopar and hen they rise back up. 

[SalesmanSean]

All i read is blah, blah, blah.  For cafe we have diesels in the Ram and GC, there are new 4 cylinders coming in roughly a year, do some freaking research and ou see they are not being idle at all and their debt IS dropping.  You do not like them and you DO want to see them fail apparently.  i laugh everytime I see someone singing gloom and doom for Mopar and hen they rise back up. 

I don't see that much of anyone is rooting against Mopar, you're looking at this too much as people talking negatively about them specifically.  What we're doing is pointing out negative facts about the parent company.  I think most have agreed that the Mopar brands are the strength of the FCA lineup, and I think even Casa would cheer for them again if they could find their way back under some American ownership, which seems to be his biggest gripe with the Mopar section of things.  For better or worse, FCA is in bad shape, and it's not the fault of the Mopar brands, but more accurately despite their success that this has happened.  I do think that the Mopar contingent have shown their value, and should FCA as a whole go under I still think that someone will find a way to snatch them up and keep them going.  They have profitability, heritage, and a nice line of vehicles when taken as a whole.  It may take them getting all the way to the brink, though, before they are given that chance at redemption.

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

All i read is blah, blah, blah.  For cafe we have diesels in the Ram and GC, there are new 4 cylinders coming in roughly a year, do some freaking research and ou see they are not being idle at all and their debt IS dropping.  You do not like them and you DO want to see them fail apparently.  i laugh everytime I see someone singing gloom and doom for Mopar and hen they rise back up. 

I don't see that much of anyone is rooting against Mopar, you're looking at this too much as people talking negatively about them specifically.  What we're doing is pointing out negative facts about the parent company.  I think most have agreed that the Mopar brands are the strength of the FCA lineup, and I think even Casa would cheer for them again if they could find their way back under some American ownership, which seems to be his biggest gripe with the Mopar section of things.  For better or worse, FCA is in bad shape, and it's not the fault of the Mopar brands, but more accurately despite their success that this has happened.  I do think that the Mopar contingent have shown their value, and should FCA as a whole go under I still think that someone will find a way to snatch them up and keep them going.  They have profitability, heritage, and a nice line of vehicles when taken as a whole.  It may take them getting all the way to the brink, though, before they are given that chance at redemption.

 

 

 

 

Yup... I was more of Mopar fan when Cerberus owned them.. because they were American. I am no fan of Fiat