GM Exec Slams Consumer Reports

[dcs]

She's wrong. They buy the cheapest domestics against well-equipped imports. See the not-so-old comaprison pitting a loaded Avalon XLS against a LeSabre Custom and Bonneville SE where they bitched about the floaty rides of the two GMs ignoring the optional touring/sport packages available with BOTH those cars. Oh, and also the fact that one could get a LeSabre Limited or Bonneville SLE for the price of that XLS. That wasn't mentioned once.

--that is the reason I cancelled my subscription to consumer reports 4 years ago, and the rag is still the same today.

[The O.C.]

Did you not see where the Nox and the Highlander got pretty much the same mileage, according to CR, in the city and the highway and their 150 mile trip? Does it make sense that they both get relatively the same mileage city and highway but overall got 2 mpg less? A couple hard blips of the throttle in either vehicle and the out come could swing the other way.

And just because the Highlander has a DOHC motor doesn't give them the right to say, "because you have a OHV motor, your Mileage is poor, but the DOHC, which get basicly the same mileage, gets a fair rating", which is what you are saying. Shouldn't the Highlander get ragged because, after all, it does have a "way superior and better performing powertrain", DOHC and 5-speed auto, but only match the Nox? It doesn't make sense.

You missed the point of testing 17" wheels compared to 16" wheels. Go back and read what I said. With 17" wheels, there is less tire side wall. Which means less tire defection, which increases handle capabilities, maybe not feel from the electric power steering, but that could have been a reason for the difference. With them saying a low point was agility, and the only handling test that I can see they test is the Avoidance maneuver max. speed test, and they are only 1 mph different, something doesn't add up.

About the mileage......if they get the same mileage, the Highlander comes out ahead in my book because it's returning similar mileage to Equinox with a better-performing, smoother, nicer powertrain.

Call it "bang for the buck" when looking at fuel mileage.

Just going to 17-inch tires is not going to significantly affect the handling performance of Equinox.....tire sidewall flex or not.....unless the suspension is tuned to take significant advantage of it.

(Admitedly extreme) example.....adding BMW 7-series 19-inch performance tires to a Roadmaster is not going to make the Roadmaster handle like, or as good as, the BMW.

[Polish_Kris]

The Fusion is MOST CERTAINLY superior to the Camry and Accord, regardless what the media tells us.

And you know this because you test-drove all of them, and made a complete comparison of the vehicles, right?

[Polish_Kris]

This is getting radiculous. GM's reps are crying that CR is treating them "unfairly". Okay, then tell me, what products are GM giving us, that would make car critics choose theirs over world-class vehicles Japan Inc are offering us. Cost cutting, and pushing out half-ass efforts like the CSV vans and a cheap Cobalt/Pursuit where the hoods and truck lids never line up, is the main reason whey their products don't match up with vehicles from Toyota and Honda. If I was them, I would stop whinning, like most of them are, and actually go back to the drawing board, otherwise your cars will always be considered second-class vehicles. Plus, if you are offering us second-class vehicles, stop pricing them as if they were first-class. Heck, I think, if they want to win back customers, they should price these things BELOW the Korean offerings.

[balthazar]

Right: nothing will take the "cheap"ness out of a Cobalt like dropping the price to $6000. Well thought out.

[pow]

This is getting radiculous.  GM's reps are crying that CR is treating them "unfairly".  Okay, then tell me, what products are GM giving us, that would make car critics choose theirs over world-class vehicles Japan Inc are offering us.  Cost cutting, and pushing out half-ass efforts like the CSV vans and a cheap Cobalt/Pursuit where the hoods and truck lids never line up, is the main reason whey their products don't match up with vehicles from Toyota and Honda.  If I was them, I would stop whinning, like most of them are, and actually go back to the drawing board, otherwise your cars will always be considered second-class vehicles.  Plus, if you are offering us second-class vehicles, stop pricing them as if they were first-class.  Heck, I think, if they want to win back customers, they should price these things BELOW the Korean offerings.

Cobalt starts at $12,990... you can't get much cheaper than that. I'd take a subpar compact over an average subcompact any day.

[CaddyXLR-V]

Well I dont think her statements would help out future reviews from CR any....

[Shantanu]

Apparently Wags didn't apperciate Lori's statements:

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...381/1148/AUTO01

That's because Rick Wagoner is a pussy. He never stands up to anyone, sending a 5 feet tall old lady to fight his fights for him, and still backing down afterwards.

[evok]

Apparently Wags didn't apperciate Lori's statements:

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...381/1148/AUTO01

Sounds like Lori Queen was put in her place - What she did was a no no and was uncalled for.

[Polish_Kris]

Right: nothing will take the "cheap"ness out of a Cobalt like dropping the price to $6000. Well thought out.

Yeah, so let's raise the prices to almost what the competition is selling theirs, to make our products look "not cheap". Give me a break.

[balthazar]

As pointed out, the 'balt is $12.9K. That's a great price for the entry-level class. How is your proposed price 'lower than the koreans' --assumedly without any cost-cutting in the product -- supposed to be accomplished?? You suggestion doesn't seem to be serious.

[thegriffon]

Isn't that the Suzuki-built Chevy-badged Tracker?

Nope, that's the CAMI-built, jointly-developed Tracker.

[mikef]

Give em hell Lori!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CR can suck my Darelique! [/zoolander]

Most of the comments on this post will do nothing to help GM. You are prime examples of bad parenting. GM (and Ford) need to build better, more competitive products. I worked for GM for 3 years 25 five years ago and GM has been saying for years that we are going to improve and the press just needs to give us a break. Except for full-size SUV's none of GM's products are competitive.

[caddyfan2004]

Most of the comments on this post will do nothing to help GM.  You are prime examples of bad parenting.  GM (and Ford) need to build better, more competitive products. I worked for GM for 3 years 25 five years ago and GM has been saying for years that we are going to improve and the press just needs to give us a break.  Except for full-size SUV's none of GM's products are competitive.

Yeah, none of their products are competitive, that's why they sell more vehicles than any other manufacturer in this country - nearly twice as many as Toyota, by the way. In fact, Chevrolet alone outsells Toyota.

[Intrepidation]

The other day while poking around at my old Chevy dealer (where I used to work) I ran into a fellow colegue. He's a great guy, not muhc of a car enthusiast in the traditional sense but a real, honest genuine person. He drives a late 90s Tracker ragtop... 5-speed. He has worked for several different dealerships in the course of the last 30 years or so. Ford, Mazda, Suzuki & now Chevy. He's not really biased in favor or opposed to any manufacturer. He bought the Tracker because he thought from his first hand experience at a Suzuki dealer that the Tracker/Sidekick is/was a great vehicle for the price. He likes the old-school non-nonsense RWD, 4x4 for extreme weather conditions & the manual trans & ragtop for the fun to drive factor.

After talking to him for the first time in like a year I was reminded of a great example of why CR surveys are bull$h!.

A few years ago Russ was sitting there watching TV while his wife was filling out a CR survey. As Russ tells the tale she's a "CR is the bible of capitalism" kind of gal.

So at one point she asks: "How much money in maintenance/repairs/upkeep have you spent on the Tracker in the past year?"

Russ thinks for a minute and says something like $300. This is the grand total for oil changes, a couple of minor repairs and wearable items. (air cleaner etc.)

So the wife notes this fact and continues with her survey.... Their teenage daughter drives a 1999 Celica and so at one point the wife asks Russ how muhc money they've spent on the Celica in the past year...

same as wiht the Tracker Russ thinks for a minute and then says $900-something dollars.

The wife looks up stunned and says:  "NO way! ... we did nto spend that much"

Russ says: "probably more than $900 but I know for a fact just the brakes alone that we did this past year cost us $900 for front and rear" Remember, the car needed rotors etc....

So the wife says in a snide voice:

"You mean to tell me that your piece of $h! 70,000 mile Chevy Tracker cost us one third of the money to maintain this past year that our daughter's almost new TOYOTA Celica did?"

Russ say matter-of-fact like: "Yes... what of it, the car needed brakes and we had the Toyota dealer do the job"

So get this....

The wife says: "That's bull$h!... I'm writing down $180 for the Toyota, everyone KNOWS that a Toyota is a better car than some Chevy."

Russ just shook his head and decided to not argue and therefore make his life miserable.

So I ask you, if the wife of a Chevy salesman hates American cars this much and thinks Toyota is somehow infalable than how many others like this are there out there?

I guess maybe I should subscribe to CR and fill out all their surveys... I don't need to lie to make GM out to look good. Even the STS I hate so much has not been bad to me for cost of maintenance... I've only invested like $10,000 total in that car so oh-well... but I've gotten amazing bang-for-the-buck with most of my GM rides.

Man If I were that guy I would have told her to put the facts down or sleep outside. What a bitch. Every damn car is gonna need repairs no matter who makes it. My friend has a 92' Corolla. That things has had it's share of issues, from bad sparkplug housing to something broken with the fuel injector...it's also had the passenger side window crank break off, cuz depsite what people think of Toyota's superior plastics..those door plastics quality, both the door handles and the cranks are made out of the $h!tiest cheapest plastic I've ever seen in a car. He doesn't care about what car he drives, as long as it goes...so he's not an import nut or anything.

Anyway, I have an `89 Dodge Shadow...yes that thing needs work...The front motor mount is broken, the gas tank had to be replaced, the catallytic converter is bad, and the blower motor is dead. But you know what? That thing just GOES. It's starts when you tell it to, it drives without complaint, and it's interior is solidly made. It needs this much work only cuz a lot of it was neglected for 2+ years before it was given to me. It has 203k miles on it and has the original engine/tranny/exhaust system. On top of that, it recently (And unfortuneately) was in a car accident when some idiot in an Olds hit me in an intersection. But you know what? I was able to drive away with a dented fender, and some loose ground wire (Which i gotta fix)...his front end is smashed and had to be towed.

The point I'm making, to all those blind, import loyalists, and the jackasses at CR, is that every car will have issues. And don't you dare tell me all American cars aren't safe and/or unreliable, cuz I will hit you with a tire iron and beat some much needed sense into you.

[CARBIZ]

Dodgefan, part of the problem here is that when Detroit built crap, EVERYBODY was building crap but because Detroit sold a lot more vehicles than Japan or Europe, all anyone remembers is the crap that Detroit built in the '80s.

I am mentioning this because I owned an '87 Shadow ES and from brand new I had nothing but trouble: two head gaskets (one at 3 months, the next one at 84,000 km and out of warranty, naturally), rack and pinion, two water pumps, ignition linkage inside the steering column....etc. and I could go on). However, I am in the business now, and being in the business we hear a lot of stories about where everybody's bodies are buried. I know that Chryslers of today are much better than they were 20 years ago, but then so are everybody else's vehicles, too.

There are many people (and a lot of them are writers for CR now, I am sure!) who had a Pontiac 6000 or Ford Fairmont or Plymouth Horizon 20 years ago and who had bad experiences and now go around bashing Detroit because of what their experience then.

And as to what sixty eight was saying, I have seen that happen, too. The import owner will justify a $600 timing belt change as "maintenance" and carp about what a great vehicle it has been, even though they've spent thousands at the dealer in "routine" service visits.

[Intrepidation]

Dodgefan, part of the problem here is that when Detroit built crap, EVERYBODY was building crap but because Detroit sold a lot more vehicles than Japan or Europe, all anyone remembers is the crap that Detroit built in the '80s.

  I am mentioning this because I owned an '87 Shadow ES and from brand new I had nothing but trouble: two head gaskets (one at 3 months, the next one at 84,000 km and out of warranty, naturally), rack and pinion, two water pumps, ignition linkage inside the steering column....etc. and I could go on).  However, I am in the business now, and being in the business we hear a lot of stories about where everybody's bodies are buried.  I know that Chryslers of today are much better than they were 20 years ago, but then so are everybody else's vehicles, too.

  There are many people (and a lot of them are writers for CR now, I am sure!) who had a Pontiac 6000 or Ford Fairmont or Plymouth Horizon 20 years ago and who had bad experiences and now go around bashing Detroit because of what their experience then.

  And as to what sixty eight was saying, I have seen that happen, too.  The import owner will justify a $600 timing belt change as "maintenance" and carp about what a great vehicle it has been, even though they've spent thousands at the dealer in "routine" service visits.

That's true, but you have to admit that as the 90's went on and Honda and Toyota were putting out new designs, companies like GM were sticking with the same car the had for years (making reference to the Cavalier, plus the 99-06 Neon). That's too bad about your Shadow. This thing was bought used back in I think...98...and has been in the family since, and handed down to me as a first car. It's only once had a major issue where the headgasket needed to be replaced at 180k miles. I must admit that thing has gone through several motor mounts, hah. Oh but the stories of our `86 Caravan...man that thing has had problems...though ironically never engine problems). I think people just need to learn that every car will have to be repaired as it gets older, some things small, some things larger, nothing is perfect after all (thought Toyota would liek to have you believe it is).

[Paolino]

Why? just because 74% of all statistics are made up? 

12% of people know that

[Paolino]

We need to have CR support some gay cause so people will boycott it LOL

[steinravnik]

Consumers Reports is only good for comedy relief. Sadly, too many sheep believe what they read though.