C&G Spy Shots: The Rear Of Zeta

[Guest Josh]

Forget Beta, Here's Zeta!

Yesterday, C&G brought you the very first spy shots of the Holden Commodore from Australia. That spy shot featured a front 3/4 view of the RWD architecture and also left a few readers in doubt that this was infact the Zeta architecture due to the massive padding and "roof rails" that were so blatantly obvious on these testers.


As you can tell in the spy pic down below the RWD Holden Commodore will draw heavily from the Holden Torana concept shown just last year in Australia. The Torana wowed crowds with its athletic stance and it's aggressive styling prompting enthusiasts to beg "When will Beta be made?!"

Holden has obviously styled their rear of the Commodore to that of the Holden Torana concept of just last year. Check out the spies below!



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Notice those massive rear quad dual exhaust tips and the crazy tread on these test mules. Pretty impressive for a RWD four door sedan which will of course beg the question: "When do WE get one!!"

Also notice the massive rear glass and obvious padding that is made to give this tester the look of roof rails as well as an "Aztek-like" rear end.

Other mules are said to be running around with exhaust tips with the exact look of the Holden Torana concept shown below. Just take a look at the obvious similarities.

[Northstar]

It does look pretty similar to the Torana from what I can tell. The roofline looks pretty good from what I can see, and the overall feel I get when I look at this shot is better than the front. It just looks sportier and hunkered down or something.

[jbartley]

ohh boyyy oooohh boyyy!

[Satty]

I'm probably in the minority, but I would love to see an extended sedan/hatchback, RWD, hybrid V6(damn gas prices).

[balthazar]

Don't you EVER!! use the descriptor "obviously" with another one of these tossed laundry bags of 'future car' pics again, you hear me, Josh?!?! It's completely ridiculous. Don't make me come up there...

[pow]

Seems like Holden's styling identity is just Opel's.

[Mike The Canadian]

Omg, please be roadmaster plaese!
im lacrossing

lol...














erm...just kidding...but common gm, build this damn thing as a roadmaster now! Edited September 1, 2005 by Mike The Canadian

[mustang84]

The C-pillar appears to have that same Nissan dog-leg look. :( The '07 Sebring will have the same thing. Hopefully the camo is just playing tricks on my eyes.

[nzr]

So cool!

[Robert Hall]

The C-pillar appears to have that same Nissan dog-leg look. :(  The '07 Sebring will have the same thing.  Hopefully the camo is just playing tricks on my eyes.

[post="7781"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Yeah, the dogleg C-pillar look has caught on in the last few years...I don't know if it is partially automakers trying to emulate the BMW Hoffmeister kink, or simply a practical design trait to make rear seat ingress/egress easier by making the upper opening larger....

[regfootball]

my God, if I plunked my Aztek's body on a body on frame rear drive v8 and took 'spy photos' of it, you'd all be creaming in your shorts.

[vinz96z]

Maybe I missed it in yesterday's thread, but where are people seeing these? The pumps at the gas station look like they're in the US, no? BTW, stop picking on my Aztek's rear-end! Edited September 1, 2005 by vinz96z

[ToniCipriani]

Wow, quad tailpipes...

[Robert Hall]

Maybe I missed it in yesterday's thread, but where are people seeing these?  The pumps at the gas station look like they're in the US, no?

BTW, stop picking on my Aztek's rear-end!

[post="7924"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Australia, I assume...

[Satty]

my God, if I plunked my Aztek's body on a body on frame rear drive v8 and took 'spy photos' of it, you'd all be creaming in your shorts.

[post="7803"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Hell, dont even do that, just cover it up with some garbage bags, maybe use cardboard underneath to change the shape up, snap a few pics and sell them, but be sure to tell whoever you sell them to that it was RWD and sounded like it had a V8 and the interior was top notch.

[NOS2006]

Very Torana. Very cool. I can't wait to see it!

[regfootball]

Hell, dont even do that, just cover it up with some garbage bags, maybe use cardboard underneath to change the shape up, snap a few pics and sell them, but be sure to tell whoever you sell them to that it was RWD and sounded like it had a V8 and the interior was top notch.

[post="8122"][/post]

hey guys, the new aztek has RWD and a v8!

Edited September 2, 2005 by regfootball

[Guest Josh]

hey guys, the new aztek has RWD and a v8!

[post="8210"][/post]

That picture was taken at Athens a few years back here in Detroit on Woodward.

As far as the rest of your comments go. Learn a thing or three about the business then go ahead and talk.

[regfootball]

That picture was taken at Athens a few years back here in Detroit on Woodward.

As far as the rest of your comments go. Learn a thing or three about the business then go ahead and talk.

[post="8234"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

GM's badly needed upcoming crossovers (still too far away, should have been here by now) will mean much more the success of GM than some RWD coupes and sedans.

Hey, I'll be giddy as long as they don't have to move the gas tank into the trunk like on the GTO.

As far as what i need to learn about the business, that's easy enough to absorbing about 2-3 minutes from the dwindling sales reports each successive month, unless the corporate five finger discount is being revived again for the 4th month in a row.

Hey, the Torana is a nice looking car. It looks like it might be a bit small in size for the US market. I think its great that GM will offer Zeta product here. But no one should count on Zeta to save the company, just that it will round out some product lines. It will not be bread and butter product that will buoy GM against the rice invaders that see near double digit increases all the time. Do I know about the business? That's enough to know to say, nice car, I hope it does well. Hope you got something else in the hopper in the big volume segments to save your corporate balance sheet.

Nice car, thanks for posting it. Edited September 2, 2005 by regfootball

[Satty]

Hey, I'll be giddy as long as they don't have to move tghe gas tank into the trunk like on the GTO.

[post="8255"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

No you wont. You always find something to bitch about, you test drive more cars than Edmunds and go on about just as many trivial matters. I'm sure your local car salespeople want to kill you.

[regfootball]

No you wont.  You always find something to bitch about, you test drive more cars than Edmunds and go on about just as many trivial matters.  I'm sure your local car salespeople want to kill you.

[post="8261"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

nope, they just throw you the keys and say 'tell me if you like it'......... Edited September 2, 2005 by regfootball

[douglask]

Maybe I missed it in yesterday's thread, but where are people seeing these?  The pumps at the gas station look like they're in the US, no?

I think it's in the US also.

In Australia Shell has Unleaded, Ultra, Optimax and LRP (Lead Replacement Petrol). While in the US, Shell has Regular, Plus and V-Power gasolines which are seen in the photo.

[Sixty8panther]

Don't you EVER!! use the descriptor "obviously" with another one of these tossed laundry bags of 'future car' pics again, you hear me, Josh?!?! It's completely ridiculous. Don't make me come up there...

[post="7662"][/post]

I'm wiht Balthazar on this one. It's like predicting the future wiht tea leaves. :P



Reg:

I love that LS6 powered Aztek. I'd take that for a daily driver anyday!

[turbo200]

No you wont.  You always find something to bitch about, you test drive more cars than Edmunds and go on about just as many trivial matters.  I'm sure your local car salespeople want to kill you.

[post="8261"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

that's too funny for words :lol:

no offense, reg http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/AH-HA_wink.gif

[pontiaccrest]

Nice rear end!!!!

[pow]

hey guys, the new aztek has RWD and a v8!

[post="8210"][/post]

Wow, that's a sweet Aztek! It always potential to be something really cool.

[SS427]

Maybe I missed it in yesterday's thread, but where are people seeing these?  The pumps at the gas station look like they're in the US, no?

BTW, stop picking on my Aztek's rear-end!

[post="7924"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I agree, I was looking at this photo and the front end photos, and I have to believe that these pictures were taken here in the good ole USA. My proof is not only the gas pump, but in the back ground of the front end photo (of a left hand drive car, and yes I know Holden imports to Saudi Arabia, etc.) is a white Olds Cutlass Ciera, even though that could be could be a Statesmen or a Commodore as someone suggested at GmInsider.com if you look to the right of the photo is clearly a modified Jeep CJ-7 from the 70's sitting on a trailer. I may be the new guy here but just take a look this may not be Zeta but maybe a Sigma Lite being readied for the US market.

[SS427]

The Commodores are currently being tested in multiple locations around the U.S.

[post="9261"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I question that because even though they are prototypes don't they have to meet U.S. standards to be driven on U.S. streets (i.e. placement of the gas tank, crash testing, emissions), I realize that exemptions can be made available for some of this stuff but it does not seem cost effective to pay for those all the time for a platform you are not going to sell here. That is why I strongly believe that this is not Zeta or at least not a Zeta not intended for Australia.

[evok]

I question that because even though they are prototypes don't they have to meet U.S. standards to be driven on U.S. streets (i.e. placement of the gas tank, crash testing, emissions), I realize that exemptions can be made available for some of this stuff but it does not seem cost effective to pay for those all the time for a platform you are not going to sell here. That is why I strongly believe that this is not Zeta or at least not a Zeta not intended for Australia.

[post="10027"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

No, you are wrong on all counts.

[trevormac98]

That is one sweet looking Aztek. I own one and it is a great car. The Holden Commodore was probably re-badged and Americanized so that it can be driven over here. I know they have been redesigning the GTO, do you think that might be it. The Torano TT36 concept is a great looking vehicle, you can see inside shots of it at the Holden website. If GMNA came out with something like that, the car market would be ours. It does look like the car is in the US by what the Labels of Gasoline are and the advertisement above it. Bringing the Commodore to America was probably the cheapest and best way for GMNA to get a RWD program started without having to start from scratch. I hope something great comes of this.

[evok]

The Holden Commodore was probably re-badged and Americanized so that it can be driven over here.  I know they have been redesigning the GTO, do you think that might be it. 

Bringing the Commodore to America was probably the cheapest and best way for GMNA to get a RWD program started without having to start from scratch. 

[post="10190"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

NO

[trevormac98]

EVOK: NO to what? I admit it was a stretch to think that the pic was a concept of the GTO, but maybe similar design will be used for the GTO Or was it no to that the Holden was Americanized and brought over to GMNA as a way for GMNA to have a RWD program without starting from scratch. I do not think you can say no to that for these reasons: 1. GM has gone to global development and this would be a terrific way for GM to save money by using something that is already there (RWD Holden) instead of starting from scratch. 2. GM put its extra money and cancelled the RWD program as to speed up the GMT 900. After doing that, Chrysler scored a huge advantage with there RWD vehicles. GM realizing they needed to compete, but with limited resources, went to Holden, which is popular in Australia, so popular, the NBA top pick, Andrew Bogat was given one for free. GM figured they could Americanize and get to the market faster with something already in place than to start from scratch. See Evok, if you are going to say No, give me a valid reason why you said No. These are my reasons why they said Yes. I may not be right, but I make a lot more sense than just a "NO".

[evok]

trevormac98: What don't you understand. No, it is not an Americanized Holden for the US market. No, the prototypes do not need to be federalized to be tested in the US. No, it is not the GTO. and, No the extensive plans to bring zeta to the US were officially cancelled last winter and ... lets just say GM has other plans for ... One last thing, lets just say there are a few on the board if you are not familiar with us, who are not exactly interns in the auto industry. Edited September 6, 2005 by evok

[91z4me]

Hey Trevor I would caution against trying to out knowledge some who works day in and day out with future vehicle information, evok no me. Also GM already has a RWD lineup in NA it is the Sigma vehicles and even though they are expensive they are certainly as full line as any RWD platform in the industry, BMW discounted. See wouldn't it be easier to start with Sigma that was designed to be built in the US and then take out costs, might want to search for Mark Ruess's comments on this subject if you haven't read them.

[trevormac98]

Evok,

I am not exactly an intern either, just helped the interns out.

I know they do not need to be federalized to be tested in the US, I didnt bring that point up. I also said, that it probably isnt for the GTO, but could possibly be what the GTO design progresses towards, since it is built on the Holden.

I also know that this might be helpful for GM to use something already in place to bring to America faster. Hence, why GM went to Globalization which Lutz heads, GM Vice Ghairman, Global Product Development. It has also been quoted, and as soon as I find the source, I will post it, that Lutz loved the Torana TT36 concept.

I know the Zeta was cancelled and I know there are other plans ...

And Mr. Evok, since you find it so easy to bash on interns because of what you think is lack of knowledge, please tell me what you do in the auto industry? I am just saying it is a possibility, which in fact, it is a possibility. Tell me how Americanizing Holden's would be stupid for GM to do instead of starting from scratch.

Why re-invent the wheel, when one is already available and works great.

And, No, I am not familiar with some of the people on C&G board who are not interns, and I would love to get to know all of you, together, our idea and discussions on these threads will be great for all to read. I love to listen to all ideas.

Evok, I hope you can appreciate my opinion and my respectfully disagreement with your opinion. I look forward to reading what you and the other board members have to say in the future

[trevormac98]

You know, I am just putting out other ideas. Opinions cant be wrong or right. I am glad to read that people on this forum have access to more information than I do, because I get most of mine from what I read on various websites and talking to certain people. This is why I joined C&G, to learn more. Thank You

[91z4me]

Trevor we are all here to learn more and figure things out. But we need to remember that there are people who are in positions where they cannot disclose their name or where they work, they are passing on more than they should in some cases. Just to let you know there are a few (evok, AH-HA, Uncle Dave, Hudson) who are deep insiders who know when changes take place and what they are. Sometimes they can share, sometimes they can't. We must accept what they say at face value because a lot of times they cannot get into deeper detail.

[trevormac98]

91, I completely understand that. It is great to get some information from GM themselves, besides what I hear from work and other people. I just put out my conspiracy theory on the spy pic and other things within this forum, unless I know for sure and then I usually dont tell that info. Now I know whose posts to check daily, because I thirst for more knowledge.

[Northstar]

Uncle Dave isn't an insider. AH-HA, evok, and thegriffon are the main ones around here. Every once in a while Hogans_Heros chimes in too.

[IbuyGM]

Hello, I am new to this site. I have been reading this forum recently and really enjoyed the threads so far. That is a great shot and it does appear to be in the USA. But does anybody think this pic could have come from us from Canada? just a way for GM to bypass any federal laws, which I still dont think would hinder them from testing a vehicle. Regards

[ehaase]

Just to let you know there are a few (evok, AH-HA, Uncle Dave, Hudson) who are deep insiders who know when changes take place and what they are. 

Uncle Dave is now Mule Bakersdozen LS. Hudson posts only at GMI, and although he is an insider, most of his posts are nitpicky debates, not insider information.

[91z4me]

Uncle Dave is now Mule Bakersdozen LS.  Hudson posts only at GMI, and although he is an insider, most of his posts are nitpicky debates, not insider information.

[post="10472"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Hudson likes to simply point out mistakes and see what people can figure out. I think he works for JD Powers in forcasting. He has tons of first rate knowledge and he admits to writing at least one book.

[grint]

Hi, I'm new to this forum and like you I am also very interested in the mystery car being tested throughout the US.

As an Aussie, the GM Holden brand is an institution here with the first car rolling off the assembly lines in 1948. The Commodore was introduced here in 1978 and is now celebrating 27 years of production. During the past 27 years, we have had the Commodore built on 3 platforms with the new VE being built on the 4th platform.

So any information about this new platform is real interesting.

The picture of the camo car being tested in the US could look something like the one in the following link (mechanicals anyway). The car pitured appears to be a VZ Commodore mule.

http://www.mtfile.com/ls1/VEorLS2Mule_01.jpg

[SS427]

No, you are wrong on all counts.

[post="10183"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Ok what is your proof, or at least your theorys, I am listening.

[SS427]

Trevor we are all here to learn more and figure things out.  But we need to remember that there are people who are in positions where they cannot disclose their name or where they work, they are passing on more than they should in some cases.

Just to let you know there are a few (evok, AH-HA, Uncle Dave, Hudson) who are deep insiders who know when changes take place and what they are.  Sometimes they can share, sometimes they can't.  We must accept what they say at face value because a lot of times they cannot get into deeper detail.

[post="10334"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

If they are insiders what are they doing leaking obviously secret information, I myself I am a enthusiast who happens to work for a supplier. Most of my information though, comes from the internet, car magazines, etc., granted I am the new guy here but when someone so rudely says that I am wrong with no explination, then I find out that they are some sort of insider, I am forced to question the accuracy of the information they are giving out, and that this is an attempt to spread some disinformation.

[ehaase]

granted I am the new guy here but when someone so rudely says that I am wrong with no explination, then I find out that they are some sort of insider, I am forced to question the accuracy of the information they are giving out, and that this is an attempt to spread some disinformation.

We have known these guys for about 5 years. They have proven to be accurate time and time again, and we trust these insiders implicitly. Sometimes they may seem abrupt, but they are good guys.

[IbuyGM]

I am new to this forum also, and do not know about the insiders. I dont blame ss247 or trevormac for questioning because I would also. I know that if you actually work for GM, you have to sign a confidentiallity agreement to not disclose any information. So I wonder would these insiders really risk there job for the good of this forum. Probably not. I believe they are insiders, and if you say they have been right before, then even better. My personal feelings, unless you are actually working on a new design project, or the head of GM, 1. you wouldnt disclose a thing, 2. everyone else found out by hearsay or reading about it. But Bless the insiders, without them, we really would be lost.

[Satty]

They can do it pretty anonymously on here. Evok and AH-HA are very valuable insiders, I'd certainly never question a thing either one posts. They have posted things that didn't come to be, but they posted when they discovered wouldn't happen, they're just good like that. AH-HA brings one more thing to the forums, anytime I see his posts I get the song "Take On Me" playing in my head.

[evok]

I'd certainly never question a thing either one posts. 

[post="11005"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Come on Satty, you gotta keep us honest. :P

[evok]

I am forced to question the accuracy of the information they are giving out, and that this is an attempt to spread some disinformation.

[post="10880"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

No, I responded to stop your disinformation.