Pontiac Should Have Had Genesis Coupe

[frogger]

I don't expect much cross shopping of the Camaro vs the Genesis coupe. IMO the Camaro name has too much negative baggage for most people who would buy an import, and Hyundai too much negative baggage for people who would buy a Camaro.

[daves87rs]

I don't expect much cross shopping of the Camaro vs the Genesis coupe. IMO the Camaro name has too much negative baggage for most people who would buy an import, and Hyundai too much negative baggage for people who would buy a Camaro.

Yes and no. For many , that might be true.

For the younger "tuner:" crowd, that might be a different story....

[hyperv6]

wow, anyone still follows nascar? lmao

Wow 70 million. most of which buy own or drive cars.

Even Toyota understands you sell cars to all people not just the ones you like.

[hyperv6]

:smilies-38096:

I've driven a Genesis Coupe, and there is nothing appreciably wrong with it. There was a fair amount of road noise on the highway, but I was driving without the radio on. The tiny trunk is the only other flaw the car has. Its reasonably priced and has a practically never-ending warranty. It cant be thrown around like the MINI, but since its like 14 feet longer, thats to be expected. The Genesis Coupe will do just fine, and I'm sure the people buying them wont regret it.

Having been in both the Camaro and Genesis I agree. Both cars have some flaws but both will do fine.

They way I see it they Hyunidia is not a bad car now and will only improve greatly with a little time. People now will not regret buying it as as it improves I see them going back to it. If it had some fatal flaw then I would feel better but it has none.

As for styling I do not like it but styling is subjective. TOday we have many people buying into the ugly box vehicles (Cube , Element etc) and think they are driving some of the best styled cars on the road.

[Robert Hall]

Speaking of Genesis comparos, Road & Track did a comparison test w/ it and the G37. Was interesting, considering the substantial (~16k) price difference.

[A Horse With No Name]

Speaking of Genesis comparos, Road & Track did a comparison test w/ it and the G37. Was interesting, considering the substantial (~16k) price difference.

I actually like the Genesis BETTER than the G37, thank you very much....and yes I realize the G37 is more "polished" but....

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

>>"I wonder if some groups of people will be put OFF by the retro styling of the Camaro. "<<

I strongly doubt it. The only thing retro-esque about it as it sits in front of you, is the grille opening/ frenched grille. Everything else is completely modern, it just calls to mind the '69 for those that know it well. But for the vast majority of consumers- '69 Camaros are not something seen often out on the road, and the proportional differences are not going to call the '10 to mind, IMO.

I really think and hope your right. To me, the Camaro is one of the neatest designs to come out in a long time. The short deck, long hood, and spanked roofline....

Chris

[Robert Hall]

I actually like the Genesis BETTER than the G37, thank you very much....and yes I realize the G37 is more "polished" but....

Chris

They matched up pretty favorably, not as big of a gap as one would think based only on price difference.

[ShadowDog]

I've driven a Genesis Coupe, and there is nothing appreciably wrong with it. There was a fair amount of road noise on the highway, but I was driving without the radio on. The tiny trunk is the only other flaw the car has. Its reasonably priced and has a practically never-ending warranty. It cant be thrown around like the MINI, but since its like 14 feet longer, thats to be expected. The Genesis Coupe will do just fine, and I'm sure the people buying them wont regret it.

...it may do just fine...but IMHO it is still second fiddle to the Camaro.

One interesting thing...I wonder if some groups of people will be put OFF by the retro styling of the Camaro. Asian people who identify with asian products for one...younger people who don't remember the first gen Camaro's for another?

Just thinking out loud...

Chris

Ironically, I found the absolute perfect example of a cross-shopper living next door. My neighbors own the following: A late model GMC Sierra HD; 2003 Civic Hatch; and a collectors-condition second-gen Firebird Trans-Am and Camaro each. One of their sons was looking for a starter car while going to college. Something efficient and practical but sporty for a young guy. Given the types of cars their father grew up with, also being a GMC truck buyer exclusively (he's owned three different trucks from GMC in the past 15 years), you'd think he'd be dead-set on a domestic car. That wasn't the case here. His son drives a nice, silver...

...and he really enjoys it.

He'd love to find himself in a new car like the Camaro or Genesis; however, his dad is smart and says, "You want one, go buy one. As long as you still need me to help you finance a vehicle, you'll be getting a used car."

With what he's driving now, he's not complaining. I asked him if he'd consider the new variations for the Camaro or Hyundia Genesis and he basically said, 'I'd really have to be paying close attention to all the details. I'm not willing to compromise on anything that I like about the Tiburon. If one of them does something better, it would also have to be better than the alternate with regard to handling and practicality.' He didn't think he could be too heavily interested in a V8 Camaro, not knowing how the V6 would stack up against his preferences. By this, I mean he would have to actually try the V6 for himself before he had an opinion to share. Smart kid. He wouldn't fit in around here.

It's a bummer that he is not yet in the position to consider a new car; however, like so many of us, he likes to pretend he would be buying one so he can give them a try so he can form his own conclusions. I'll let you know what he finds.

[A Horse With No Name]

...and this is what I mean about the younger gen maybe preferring a more modern looking car. I would be interested in his thoughts.

The Genesis is a huge step up over the Tibron. We actually looked at a Tibron before we bought our Miata...I've got to say it was one of the lesser cars I've looked at.

I'm actually really starting to like the new camaro MUCH more than the new Mustang, something I wasn't thinking was going to happen.

Chris

[balthazar]

Friend/client of mine used to own a tiburon. He spent money on it too, rims, stereo, etc. He's had nothing but foreign since, currently drives a Jetta, and a most of his friends seem to drive imports, too.

I asked him about the genesis but he snorted "$30K for a hyundia?? No way!" I asked him how he thought it looked, and he said 'Meh'. One car he has talked about longingly is the Challenger. Haven't discussed the Camaro yet...

[Drew Dowdell]

I dont think anyone who has ever driven an NSX would say its torqueless. You would, but thats just because of your own ignorance.

In relation to the other cars in it's price class, it's a weed eater. At 210 ft.lbs @ 5300 rpm, the NSX is just average if you're only comparing it to V6 sedans.... In fact a 2005 Honda Accord V6 has slightly more torque at a lower RPM.

My 1994 Cutlass was getting 215 ft/lbs of torque and in coupe form only weighed 200lbs more than the NSX!

For $80k, there needs to be a greater power/weight ratio advantage over a 1994 Oldsmobile.

[regfootball]

In relation to the other cars in it's price class, it's a weed eater. At 210 ft.lbs @ 5300 rpm, the NSX is just average if you're only comparing it to V6 sedans.... In fact a 2005 Honda Accord V6 has slightly more torque at a lower RPM.

My 1994 Cutlass was getting 215 ft/lbs of torque and in coupe form only weighed 200lbs more than the NSX!

For $80k, there needs to be a greater power/weight ratio advantage over a 1994 Oldsmobile.

the funny thing about the NSX was that even with that pittance of torque it routinely went through tires like every 10k miles is the book on that ride.

nice car, but you shouldn't have to spend a thousand every year on tires and still not be able to burn them up at the stop light.

[Intrepidation]

Unless you are burning them up at a light, you wouldn't need tires every year.

It may not have millions of foot pounds of torque, but it's very light as I recall.

[A Horse With No Name]

Friend/client of mine used to own a tiburon. He spent money on it too, rims, stereo, etc. He's had nothing but foreign since, currently drives a Jetta, and a most of his friends seem to drive imports, too.

I asked him about the genesis but he snorted "$30K for a hyundia?? No way!" I asked him how he thought it looked, and he said 'Meh'. One car he has talked about longingly is the Challenger. Haven't discussed the Camaro yet...

Actually I like the Jetta better than the Tibron or the Genesis.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

the funny thing about the NSX was that even with that pittance of torque it routinely went through tires like every 10k miles is the book on that ride.

nice car, but you shouldn't have to spend a thousand every year on tires and still not be able to burn them up at the stop light.

Probably very sticky tires for high perf use. Lots of people go through several sets of high perf tires. Your not buying sticky gumball tires to get 60k miles out of them...

Chris

[Drew Dowdell]

Unless you are burning them up at a light, you wouldn't need tires every year.

It may not have millions of foot pounds of torque, but it's very light as I recall.

1994 Cutlass Supreme Coupe S - 3389lbs

2005 Acura NSX - 3179lbs

[Intrepidation]

Performance isn't just about going in a straight line. I'm pretty sure the Cutlass can't do anything that remotely involves handling, especially compared to the NSX.

[A Horse With No Name]

Actually the old RWD coupes (Cutlass) weren't that muich heavier than the FWD cars, IIRC.

Chris

[regfootball]

Unless you are burning them up at a light, you wouldn't need tires every year.

It may not have millions of foot pounds of torque, but it's very light as I recall.

tell that to the NSX owners who could not even get 5000 miles out of them a lot of the time

[A Horse With No Name]

...and even back in the day, I think a 1969 V8 Cutlass W/o air and power windows (2 dr) was like 3450 lbs or so...but I could be wrong.

Chris

[Intrepidation]

tell that to the NSX owners who could not even get 5000 miles out of them a lot of the time

Which ones? Got a source for that?

-Edit-

Nevermind, I looked it up myself. That is pretty &#036;h&#33;ty.

[regfootball]

Probably very sticky tires for high perf use. Lots of people go through several sets of high perf tires. Your not buying sticky gumball tires to get 60k miles out of them...

Chris

true but 20,000 isn't a lot to ask for. even 10,000.

[Drew Dowdell]

Performance isn't just about going in a straight line. I'm pretty sure the Cutlass can't do anything that remotely involves handling, especially compared to the NSX.

Wasn't even close to implying that. I'm simply discussing the power to weight ratio.

Here's how ridiculous this whole thing is. You could buy a 2005 Corvette with a blown engine. Replace the V8 with the 3.6 DI from the CTS and STILL spank the NSX.

For $80k your exotic should be better than that.

[regfootball]

Which ones? Got a source for that?

-Edit-

Nevermind, I looked it up myself. That is pretty &#036;h&#33;ty.

thanks. i don't make that sht up ya know. NSX's were miserably engineered in their suspension and toe control and had major issues burning through expensive tires that made owners extremely mad. at least if you burn tires it should be from smoky donuts.

[Robert Hall]

1994 Cutlass Supreme Coupe S - 3389lbs

2005 Acura NSX - 3179lbs

That seems awfully light for the Cutlass...I thought those things were more like 3500-3800 lbs..

[regfootball]

Wasn't even close to implying that. I'm simply discussing the power to weight ratio.

Here's how ridiculous this whole thing is. You could buy a 2005 Corvette with a blown engine. Replace the V8 with the 3.6 DI from the CTS and STILL spank the NSX.

For $80k your exotic should be better than that.

i actually would love to own an old NSX. but when i saw how they ate tires and the fact that its power level was not near a corvette i was like, nah, not worth it. far more cost effective to find an old ZR1 corvette or an old 944 turbo or something like that.

some hondas i do like.

there is actually a late gen MR2 for sale at a lot in my town. i need to go see if its a stick. that was another asian 'sports car' cough I actually kind of liked besides the supra and nissan Z's.

Del Sol? nah, i'm a bit not flighty enough for one of those.

Edited May 11, 2009 by regfootball

[Robert Hall]

the funny thing about the NSX was that even with that pittance of torque it routinely went through tires like every 10k miles is the book on that ride.

nice car, but you shouldn't have to spend a thousand every year on tires and still not be able to burn them up at the stop light.

I think my friend Steve has only replaced the tires once or twice over the 10 years he's had his NSX...but he drives it about 2500-3000 miles a year, since it's not a daily driver.

I've driven the car several times and ridden in it many times, it's a lot of fun. Great handling, great steering feel w/ the manual steering, great engine noise behind your head. So what if it's not a drag racer? There is more to performance than acceleration...it's not a muscle car, but a high-revving sports car. Different paradigm. I'd definitely consider a '90s NSX over a Corvette of the same era for the rarity and the mid engined nature, the design, etc.

Edited May 11, 2009 by Cubical

[Drew Dowdell]

That seems awfully light for the Cutlass...I thought those things were more like 3500-3800 lbs..

The convertible was the heaviest and topped out at 3628.

[Camino LS6]

The NSX has always been underwhelming and overpriced.

[Cory Wolfe]

I would love an NSX for its mid-engine layout alone. Essentially, a much more sophisticated and exotic Fiero. Granted, that's for a price. A used NSX is still around the $20k and above mark.

[Drew Dowdell]

I would love an NSX for its mid-engine layout alone. Essentially, a much more sophisticated and exotic Fiero. Granted, that's for a price. A used NSX is still around the $20k and above mark.

my granddad's Snapper is a more sophisticated Fiero

[A Horse With No Name]

I would love an NSX for its mid-engine layout alone. Essentially, a much more sophisticated and exotic Fiero. Granted, that's for a price. A used NSX is still around the $20k and above mark.

NSX is a sweet car but it is wayyy down on the list for me...

I'd actually rather have a Solstice Targa, truth be known. Or that beuatiful new 370Z.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

my granddad's Snapper is a more sophisticated Fiero

Blackviper should get a Fiero and swap in a 350...fairly simple...

Shame the Fiero never became what it should have been...the 88 end of moden cars are awesome. Just should have been that way from the get-go...

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

For $80k your exotic should be better than that.

It's called Z06...or Audi R8 for that matter.

Chris

[hyperv6]

Blackviper should get a Fiero and swap in a 350...fairly simple...

Shame the Fiero never became what it should have been...the 88 end of moden cars are awesome. Just should have been that way from the get-go...

Chris

I still have mine and it still is fun to drive and get 21-23 MPG in town with the V6.

I wish I had my 290 HP Ecotech in my Fiero. It would be the perfect engine for the car. I estimate it would come in around 2500 pounds with this combo and with near 300 HP it should run in the 12 sec range in the 1/4 mile. My HHR SS will do 13's with 3200 pounds.

What happened to the Fiero is a good case study on what was wrong with GM to get them where they are at today. Too much internal conflict with corperate and divisions all working against each other.

The less divisions and models will give GM a chance to work as one. Something we have seldom seen from the shrinking giant.

[A Horse With No Name]

Real world 13's...? Have you put in that 40 HP Chip into the HHR SS?

I've always kind of wanted a Fiero, actually.

Chris

[Camino LS6]

Real world 13's...? Have you put in that 40 HP Chip into the HHR SS?

I've always kind of wanted a Fiero, actually.

Chris

Came sorta close to buying a Fiero once - the test drive changed my mind.

Most awkward shifter ever.

[A Horse With No Name]

Given the choice I'd say Solstice Targa...But I could live with a Fiero.

Did you drive one of the 88's Camino? I think the shifter was one of the things that was changed over time, IIRC.

Chris

[Robert Hall]

Speaking of Fieros, when I was back in Denver a couple weekends ago, I stayed w/ my buddy Steve and his wife..he has the NSX.

His next door neighbor has two teenage sons, and the 3 of them have an ever-changing assortment of Fieros 2-3 at a time, and a mid '70s El Camino and a '77-79 Ranchero...over the last 6 years, I've seen probably a 1/2 dozen different mid 70s El Caminos and Rancheros there, plus motorcycles, and one offs like a '60s Chevy van, a '64 Thunderbird convertible, a '70 Galaxie coupe, and various other random cars. The most recent one off I saw was one of the last RWD 2dr LeSabres, from around '84-85, white w/ Buick mags. He has a 3 car garage and usually 3 cars in the driveway and 2-3 parked on the street. When I was back there a couple weeks ago, I watched his sons load an '87-88 Fiero GT onto a flatbed and take it away..

[regfootball]

i liked the fiero. i knew a guy who had a white fiero GT, can't recall what year. prob the last year. sweet car. i liked the non GT ones as well.

[Robert Hall]

i liked the fiero. i knew a guy who had a white fiero GT, can't recall what year. prob the last year. sweet car. i liked the non GT ones as well.

I saw an early regular one in traffic the other day..it had been silver, but maybe 25 years of AZ sun had faded the plastic body to a grayish white in places..

[Camino LS6]

Given the choice I'd say Solstice Targa...But I could live with a Fiero.

Did you drive one of the 88's Camino? I think the shifter was one of the things that was changed over time, IIRC.

Chris

I don't remember what year it was, but the shifter was beyond horrible in its location. You nearly had to reach back behind yourself to get to it, and you wished that your arm was about half of its length so you could avoid the awkward angle you had to hold it at to shift.

I had a long test drive in mind, but only lasted about 10 minutes with that rotten shifter.

[hyperv6]

Real world 13's...? Have you put in that 40 HP Chip into the HHR SS?

I've always kind of wanted a Fiero, actually.

Chris

13.91 with a auto.

It is a GM Stage II kit from GM pereformance. THis kit fits the Solstice, Sky and HHR SS. It moved my engine form 235 HP in 1st and 2nd and 250 HP in 3rd and 4th to 290 HP in all gears with 314 FT LBS. THe Sky and Solstice turbo get up to 290 HP and 340 FT LBS with the same kit on the 5 speed.

I still keep the 5 year 100,000 mile warranty since it is a GM part.

The time is from a friend with the identical set up I have. The hardest part is getting traction with the Pilot carp tires. With launch control it helps. I still can be rolling at 20 MPG and light them up.

This is one sweet set up and one is coming for the Cobalt SS with a new intake tube and AC.

Edited May 13, 2009 by hyperv6

[hyperv6]

I don't remember what year it was, but the shifter was beyond horrible in its location. You nearly had to reach back behind yourself to get to it, and you wished that your arm was about half of its length so you could avoid the awkward angle you had to hold it at to shift.

I had a long test drive in mind, but only lasted about 10 minutes with that rotten shifter.

I never had issue with the shifter as the one's I have driven were angled right to the steering wheel. I did not like the spacing of the gate for first as I always hit 3rd. THe cable shifters were just dead feeling.

I have had fun with mine as I have had it 24 years. I bought a Auto since I knew they had weak clutches and I knew I would never change it in my Garage. TO day it was a wise move as pedals, slave cyliunders, and shift linkage have proven not to hold up well over time. The Auto I have is programed different than most GM's It will hold a lower gear easy and you can sift it with a flick of your foot either up a gear or down. It is very controlable.

The Fiero was never a great car. The front and rear feel detached formn each other in the 84-87 cars. The 88 was good. But for all the money I have in it is a fun car iun a MG kind of way but mine has been reliable. The AC has never even needed refilled.

For me taking the T tops out and going for a warm evening drive in the lakes it like driving down the PCH in Newport Beach. Very enjoyable.

Also I have some changes to my car to the point many do not even know it is a Fiero. I get a lot of I don't like Fiero's but I really like yours. I guess that is a compliment of sorts. I also have won at car shows on a regular basis. I even at many shows face Lambos, Panteras and other high end sports cars and often I beat them. [i even wax the floor pan on this car as it is that clean] It is fun watching their faces getting beat by a plastic Pontiac.

By the way it also has gotten me rides in these high end cars as I have become buddies with some of the owners. That is one cool thing. Help a guy get his vapor locked Pantera started and your friends for life. LOL.

[Camino LS6]

Sounds like you had lots of fun with it.

[hyperv6]

Sounds like you had lots of fun with it.

It is a lot less scary after I put the 16 inch tires and Herb Adams suspension kit on. The inch and a quarter rear bar and one inch front make a differance. The Adams rear solid bearing bushings in the rear control arms remove the bump steer.

I have the showroom stock set up on accept for the cut springs. I already can hardly get into the driveway as it is now.

I wish I had more power but the V6 runs like new and only has 40,000 miles on it.

I have many Fiero people who swear this is the ultimate car and they hate it when I told them they never have driven a really good car then. THe Fiero is what it is Cheap fun and a go cart for adults. It is not the ultimate driving machine.

On the other hand it is not as bad as some would like to make it.

Having crashed in mine at 40 MPH into a Dodge van and then driving it home I can swear for it as a safe car for the 80's. I know todays are better but it was ahead of it's time back then for stiffness.

Edited May 14, 2009 by hyperv6