LeftLane News: Cadillac DT7 Flagship Sedan To Be Based On FWD Platform.

[regfootball]

you forgot to list the RWD A8 that you were telling us about a month ago.....

i think those sold more than the BLS, didnt they.

[Robert Hall]

considering only a few months ago i could get a 9-3 with stick and a couple options for a hair over 20g, i would buy that. i don't have the extra 10-12k for a CTS, even though obviously it would be a better car. the CTS in real money in real shopping is more spendy than the 9-3. that was where my statement comes from.

You talking about used 9-3s? The 9-3s I've seen are all over 30k, some over 40k...

[Drew Dowdell]

You talking about used 9-3s? The 9-3s I've seen are all over 30k, some over 40k...

Price it out on Carsdirect.com you'll see what he's talking about. In December you could get them about 3k cheaper than what CarsDirect is quoting now.

[pow]

The Escalade is Cadillac's own unique interpretation of a flagship luxury sedan. Investing in a DT7 seems like a waste of time now.

[Robert Hall]

The Escalade is Cadillac's own unique interpretation of a flagship luxury sedan. Investing in a DT7 seems like a waste of time now.

Blech. It's just a truck-based SUV, a tarted up Tahoe/Yukon. Nothing remotely 'flagship luxury sedan' about that turd, IMHO. A flagship luxury sedan to me is something like a Merc S class, BMW 7 series, A8, LS460, etc.

Edited February 27, 2009 by moltar

[turbo200]

image-wise, in Los Angeles at least, the Escalade definitely sums up to a flagship product. and it's great in that way, it's great that it props up Cadillac through distinctive and classy good looks. the problem Caddy needs to adress is just giving Caddy some new product on the higher end and the lower end of the CTS. On the one hand I'm beginning to see that the only way forward they've decided to take is Epsilon, and no I'm not accepting of it, but I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

not before i say this. essentially GM released a truly impressive sports sedan at Pontiac with world class handling and performance, one that matches what BMW produces, appropriately maybe might even be thier swan song. the next Cadillac will be less than that. Cadillac, all the potential of the Art/Science theme and the potential for great cars that matched BMW/MB are going down the drain. great minds at GM, great minds.

Edited February 27, 2009 by turbo200

[ZL-1]

Standard of the World EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!!

[G. David Felt]

Blech. It's just a truck-based SUV, a tarted up Tahoe/Yukon. Nothing remotely 'flagship luxury sedan' about that turd, IMHO. A flagship luxury sedan to me is something like a Merc S class, BMW 7 series, A8, LS460, etc.

-------------

IMO I totally disagree with you, I happen to own a 2006 Escalade ESV Platinum Edition. They are far more than a tahoe or Yukon Denali could ever be. They are a flagship luxury Vehicle.

[Robert Hall]

-------------

IMO I totally disagree with you, I happen to own a 2006 Escalade ESV Platinum Edition. They are far more than a tahoe or Yukon Denali could ever be. They are a flagship luxury Vehicle.

Ok, flagship Luxury truck/wagon, Not a luxury car, though. I certainly wouldn't take one over an S-class or an A8.

[G. David Felt]

Ok, flagship Luxury truck/wagon, Not a luxury car, though. I certainly wouldn't take one over an S-class or an A8.

I disagree with you, I would take it over either of these two cars. As a person who is 6'6" tall and 275, My boss drives an s500 and a fellow engineer here has an A8 and I am not comfortable in either of them when they drive.

Big German will stick with his Big American Luxury SUV. Total Comfort for me and the person sitting behind me.

[Robert Hall]

I disagree with you, I would take it over either of these two cars. As a person who is 6'6" tall and 275, My boss drives an s500 and a fellow engineer here has an A8 and I am not comfortable in either of them when they drive.

Big German will stick with his Big American Luxury SUV. Total Comfort for me and the person sitting behind me.

Whatever floats your boat, different strokes for different folks...I like large, comfortable luxury cars that are enjoyable to drive.. not trucks. Merc has serious RWD big luxury sedans and luxury SUVs (ML, GL)...

It would be great if Cadillac had both top-of-the line luxury SUVs and a big luxury sedan..since historically, big luxury sedans ( American cushy, flashy style rather than German firm and sober) have been Cadillacs forte.

But the Escalade would definitely be great if you wanted to tow a boat, horse trailer, travel trailer, etc.

Edited February 27, 2009 by moltar

[Intrepidation]

The Escalade has it's place, but it is by no means a flagship model. A flagship should never be based on a Chevy platform. Right now the CTS-V sedan is befitting of the flagship title. Why? Because it is unique to Cadillac, and most importantly, it is the current Standard of the World which all other cars that compete with it are measured.

That is what makes a Cadillac, and that is what makes a flagship.

[buyacargetacheck]

This is a major reason why people have always chosen Cadillacs: it's spelled C O M F O R T. Cadillacs must first be comfortable. That's why an extended Ep II would make an excellent Cadillac. An excellent alternative to a Lexus ES. Rear wheel drive is simply irrelevant to Cadillac's traditional mission which Lexus has taken to new levels.

If Cadillac survives (and we cannot assume that) a New Great Depression lineup should look like this:

LTS EpII sedan

CTS sedan and coupe, maybe nix the wagon since Cadillac will never succeed in Europe

SRX

Escalade (GMT900 or Lambda)

BTW, CTS and Sigma should be sacrificed if not profitable. Comfort, bling, profits.

Big German will stick with his Big American Luxury SUV. Total Comfort for me and the person sitting behind me.

Edited February 27, 2009 by buyacargetacheck

[G. David Felt]

Merc has serious RWD big luxury sedans and luxury SUVs (ML, GL)...

I would agree with the first half, but the second half is totally wrong. Their ML & GL, heck the whole SUV thing is a joke. Small to maybe medium size suv but hardly any real luxury. The sales team here has the whole Mercedes and BMW SUV family covered and none of them hold a match next to mine. For them it is a status symbol.

But then as you stated to each their own.

:smilies-38096:

[ehaase]

This is a major reason why people have always chosen Cadillacs: it's spelled C O M F O R T. Cadillacs must first be comfortable. That's why an extended Ep II would make an excellent Cadillac. An excellent alternative to a Lexus ES. Rear wheel drive is simply irrelevant to Cadillac's traditional mission which Lexus has taken to new levels.

If Cadillac survives (and we cannot assume that) a New Great Depression lineup should look like this:

LTS EpII sedan

CTS sedan and coupe, maybe nix the wagon since Cadillac will never succeed in Europe

SRX

Escalade (GMT900 or Lambda)

BTW, CTS and Sigma should be sacrificed if not profitable. Comfort, bling, profits.

I agree with you. Sigma is probably as big a money loser for Cadillac as DEW98 was for Lincoln. Besides the European emission control rules may outlaw many of the European premium sedans.

[Blake Noble]

considering only a few months ago i could get a 9-3 with stick and a couple options for a hair over 20g, i would buy that. i don't have the extra 10-12k for a CTS, even though obviously it would be a better car. the CTS in real money in real shopping is more spendy than the 9-3. that was where my statement comes from.

The Cadillac badge would add a few thousand dollars difference, reg. You know that.

[smk4565]

you forgot to list the RWD A8 that you were telling us about a month ago.....

It is Quattro awd only, but the engine is still longitudinally mounted. And the A8 is probably the worst of the top end luxury cars, the 7-series and S-class are far superior.

Edited February 28, 2009 by smk4565

[smk4565]

This also shows that Cadillac has zero focus. Are they a performance brand like BMW, or are they going for geriatrics like Lexus? Are they a truck brand or a car brand, going for Tier 1 $50-100k or 2nd to 3rd tier like Lincoln and Acura. They don't know what direction they are going in, they are just doing what is cheapest and easy. Unfortunately, cheap and easy won't beat Mercedes.

[regfootball]

Price it out on Carsdirect.com you'll see what he's talking about. In December you could get them about 3k cheaper than what CarsDirect is quoting now.

in september i got a quote for 19875 on a saab 9-3 stick with sunroof. MSRP was like 29-30k.

if i had been able to use my GM dollar on it then, i would have been on it like stink on sht.

GM let you use GM card on saab last month finally, but of course, duh, ya gotta have income to buy a car.

Point being even the cheapest advertised prices i have seen on new CTS is 30k. hence at least a 10k spread.

[regfootball]

[regfootball]

cadillac does need an S-class competitor.

[regfootball]

This also shows that Cadillac has zero focus. Are they a performance brand like BMW, or are they going for geriatrics like Lexus? Are they a truck brand or a car brand, going for Tier 1 $50-100k or 2nd to 3rd tier like Lincoln and Acura. They don't know what direction they are going in, they are just doing what is cheapest and easy. Unfortunately, cheap and easy won't beat Mercedes.

until the mercedes breaks down or has electrical problems

[Drew Dowdell]

It is Quattro awd only, but the engine is still longitudinally mounted. And the A8 is probably the worst of the top end luxury cars, the 7-series and S-class are far superior.

Again. You are incorrect and we've gone over this before with you. The A8 is available in 2.8 liter FWD, 3.2 liter FWD, and 3.2 DI FWD. in Germany. If you continue to post unfactual stuff that I know, for certain, you know isn't true, you're going back on ban. This time will be permanent.

The A8 is the most attractive of the Germans. I personally like the XJ the most out of this group.

[Drew Dowdell]

Reg, SMK would never buy a Sixteen because it's not DOHC.

[Satty]

Reg, SMK would never buy a Sixteen because it's not DOHC.

68 would if they, ya know, took the last three zeros out of the pricetag.

[ocnblu]

I at the very least expect silver lower body paint and a luggage rack on the decklid to help differentiate it from the Epsilon II Impala. Oh and leather seats. Keep the Impala cloth-only to justify the price difference.

[Sixty8panther]

I just want to beat my head against a wall.

If this is true, then they might as well just

wave a white flag and surrender right now.

Give out the pink slips and hand over the

keys to the Renaissance Center to Toyota.

It's like FWD is a diease and GM has a very

weak immune system. :angry2:

Fixed.

Yeah... that was my line.

Truth in adverting.

[Sixty8panther]

68 would if they, ya know, took the last three zeros out of the pricetag.

Ha-haha, yes everyone laugh at the guy who's never owned

a BRAND NEW car... poor pathetic broke bastard. Although

I DID buy my 1997 Cadillac STS in 2002. That made it a five

year old Cadillac, it wasn't CPO but it was closer to a new

Cadillac than YOU'VE owned Mr. Base Fusion.

What you guys will never understand is how much more fun

I have had over the years by owing dozens of cars of quite

varied styles & eras, while also being able to drive many of

the NEW cars you guys lust after wile working at the dealers

I have over my combined 7 or so years in the car business.

And what exactly are you trying to prove... that I'm not a

millionaire? Yeah, BURN.

[Satty]

I'm not a millionaire either. So you know what, I've never been up in arms about GM not producing a car I cannot afford because that money would be far better spent on cars that I, and millions of other Americans with a non-high 6 figure income, can afford.

[Sixty8panther]

Well.... that you're right about. In the short term.

HOWEVER.

Building the Sixteen & some world class products

to go with it (ZETA & XXL SIGMA!!!) would have

given GM many sales and credibility which in turn

would brig more sales and eventually it WOULD

be a great investment.

The SIXTEEN concept if produced, would be car

for people who want a modern day equivalent to

the pre-war hand built cars that only Royalty &

the filthy rich could afford.

You can't BUY that kind of advertising!

Imagine a Sixteen parked next to a Maybach 62,

Bentley or Maserati at the Ritz. Standard of the

World would be a f*%$ing FACT again.

[ZL-1]

As long as I can order one with column shift, whitewalls and fake wire wheels, I'm happy.

EDIT - and a vynil top too. forgot about that one.

Edited February 28, 2009 by ZL-1

[Satty]

Bench seat, covered in luxurious velour?

[ZL-1]

Bench seat, covered in luxurious velour?

Of course! The base model's rat fur upholstery is said to be quite good as well.

Edited February 28, 2009 by ZL-1

[Oracle of Delphi]

Bench seat, covered in luxurious velour?

I prefer my seats cover in baby seal skin ...

[Satty]

I prefer my seats cover in baby seal skin ...

Only if the baby seals have been clubbed. Seat covered made from drowned baby seals tends to crack more easily.

[Z-06]

32 way, 6 memory, multicontoured, heat-cold, massaging BENCH seats with clubbed babby seal leather will propel Cadillac as being the Standard of the World - Again.

[Drew Dowdell]

you forgot the 32.4 surround sound

[Z-06]

you forgot the 32.4 surround sound

My bad.

Add to that a 3-d time-space navigation system that is fully capable of telling us the prostitutes and their complete biodata, closest lion's dens, glory holes, toy shops in the area where we are driving.

[cletus8269]

Ha-haha, yes everyone laugh at the guy who's never owned

a BRAND NEW car... poor pathetic broke bastard.

eh, i traded my truck in on a brand new 04 colorado when i was in xray school. now with only 3 payments left i'd trade its new owner even to get that ss back. even if it only gets half the mileage the rado does, its nowhere near as mean looking and commanding as that 454. i dont look to buy new again for another 5 yrs or so. then there prolly wont be anything worth eyeing anyway.

Edited February 28, 2009 by cletus8269

[Intrepidation]

Funny thing is that all of this bitching about the Sixteen....it's starting to look dated now.

[Sixty8panther]

How exactly is the Sixteen starting to look dated???

It's still light years ahead of the DTS, and certainly

better looking than the awkward Maybach twins...

Even Bentleys look downright late-1990s in style

as compared to the Sixteen.

I think the Sixteen is one of the three/four most

timeless designs of a concept car made in my

lifetime.

I got your DT7 right here. Anyone wanna throw some Art & Science on this?

Preaching to the Converted...

As far as why GM will not do it?

Because it's just too damn effin'

logical, GM can't do what makes

sense anymore EVER.

They'd rather perpetuate

mediocrity in 95% of their

domestic products & make the

stupidest decisions possible.

Just like fitting a square peg into

a round hole, except GM doesn't

even have a BFH to do it with.

FWD belongs in Chevy Only. Luxury should NEVER be FWD. Either RWD for entry level auto's and AWD for the higher end models. End of story.

Not everyone likes AWD.

Just because I live in New England does not mean

I want it shoved down my throat. just offer it on

the higher end models & let the consumer decide.

[Intrepidation]

The front end could use an update, I don't like the tiny strip for headlights. I don't like how they don't follow the lines of the grill at all.

[Satty]

just offer it on the higher end models & let the consumer decide.

Wouldn't sales over the last 30 years or so say the consumer has decided upon FWD?

[buyacargetacheck]

Traditional Cadillac values: isolation, comfort, style at an upper-middle class price point without the snob appeal of BMW and Mercedes might actually make a comeback in the New Great Depression as road budgets get slashed. If the dollar loses its reserve currency status it will be even worse. From what I've read about Michigan (and Detroit in particular) it's no wonder cushy cars still sell well there. The roads are an absolute wreck. It's maybe marginally better here in LA where there are roads (so I've heard) that haven't been repaved in 40 years. How these wannabees with their low profile tire/wheel packages stand the choppy ride I don't know.

[Sixty8panther]

Wouldn't sales over the last 30 years or so say the consumer has decided upon FWD?

RWD sells when it's offered.

The consumer DECIDED that with the CTS, 300C, Charger, Mustang etc...

[Camino LS6]

Funny thing is that all of this bitching about the Sixteen....it's starting to look dated now.

No way.

If produced today, it would still raise the bar for the entire luxury segment.

[Intrepidation]

I find teh front end to be the issue I'm pointing at. The rest of teh car is fine, but compared with the CTS, and recent Converj concept, it looks wanting.

[turbo200]

No way.

If produced today, it would still raise the bar for the entire luxury segment.

it is seriously dated. looks like an updated early 90's deville with fancier detailing up front and at the rear. very dated.

[turbo200]

surfacing typical of lutz, so watery smooth like a lexus but dull with no form whatsoever which at least lexus has. in fact that same watery surfacing is prevalent in new SRX-Vue, makes it all nice and soft and RX-ish. the shape should have been left in the '80's, though for a big time imposer-mobile out to show the world who's boss, the shape's not half bad. then you have the features that are outmoded, no one uses such little definition in thier features. tension is where it's at.

[ocnblu]

Just wait 5 minutes.

The Sixteen is timeless in appeal.