Fiat Bravo

[Satty]

I love this thing.

[Robert Hall]

Damn..that is a very slick package. Bring it here!

[Intrepidation]

Maybe they will with a Chrysler badge on it.

[Robert Hall]

Maybe they will with a Chrysler badge on it.

Dodge Garter... baby brother to the Viper.

[Satty]

[Satty]

This thing is about the same size as the Astra. Too bad GM didn't buy Fiat, then we'd have this worthwhile European import.

[turbo200]

GM would wait four years after the design was released and it had become stale...release it with one, underpowered and uneconomical engine, and then overprice it relative to the more powerful competition. on top of that, they wouldn't advertise or tell anyone what it was, like a diamond in the rough.

i always love smart and smooth looking hatches like this.

[Paolino]

Wow, that's not bad.

[Satty]

The front overhang and wheel-fender gaps look like they were GM designed.

[Intrepidation]

It does have a rather large overhang.

[balthazar]

Twins~

[Intrepidation]

Uh...no.

[Ravenfreak13]

Someone photoshop some chrysler badges and design cues on this...!

[regfootball]

door handles are ungodly large and tacky

interior is dull and plain and lifeless

exterior is ok.

upcoming astra is much nicer. exteriors aren't much different but the new astra interior is pretty nice. i also tend to agree this fiat is a bit of a ford clone. the next focus is what i wanna see. that should be the bomb.

i'd be looking at the similar peuguot before i'd get on board with the dull interior in this thing. new megane is pretty stylish too.

Edited February 4, 2009 by regfootball

[pow]

This thing is a lot cheaper than the European Focus. It's a C-segment car for B-segment money.

It has a version of SYNC called Blue&Me.

[Sixty8panther]

Who put the Ford Focus in a microwave and melted the corners off????

(j/k it's decent looking)

[ocnblu]

This is the new Dodge Omni. You guys knew that, right?

[saturnd00d]

I love it, would buy that in a second. I don't think the interior is bad at all. I actually think it's pretty good for the segment it's in.

[ZL-1]

I like the Lancia Delta more than the Bravo.

Much better interior than the Grande Punto or the Panda.

Edited February 4, 2009 by ZL-1

[Satty]

The Delta is gorgeous too!

[ZL-1]

The Delta is gorgeous too!

My only complaint re the Delta is that the interior is too close to the Bravo, both in design and apparent quality. Otherwise, I love it!

The Delta is longer : 4.5m long wher the Bravo is 4.3m or 4.4m long (don't remember exact figures). I think the Delta is based on the extended length platform that will underpin the Bravo station wagon.

[Satty]

Why do you guys get all the cool compacts?

[MyerShift]

I must say, I do find the Bravo to be a sharp car. I wonder if there'll be an Abarth version of this one.

FIAT seems to be on a roll with its small cars which is what it purportedly does best.

[Oracle of Delphi]

My Italian cousin still drives around in her Fiat Spider, boy does she love that old car ...

[BrewSwillis]

Someone photoshop some chrysler badges and design cues on this...!

Here you go. I put the cues from the Chrysler 200C concept on it :

[ZL-1]

Why do you guys get all the cool compacts?

We're just better

Serious answer: in the US small = cheap. That could start changing now, because most people can now afford the gas but not the gas guzzelrs.

[carman21]

Here you go. I put the cues from the Chrysler 200C concept on it :

Me likes...

[PurdueGuy]

We're just better

Serious answer: in the US small = cheap. That could start changing now, because most people can now afford the gas but not the gas guzzelrs.

gas guzzlers are very affordable right now, new and used.

[ZL-1]

gas guzzlers are very affordable right now, new and used.

Let's see how much gas guzzlers' sales will have grown at the end of '09. I might be wrong, but I firmly believe the shift towards smaller cars in the US is a permanent one.

Edited March 5, 2009 by ZL-1

[regfootball]

This is the new Dodge Omni. You guys knew that, right?

i'm jiggy with it as an omni.

if it helps retain dodge as an entity. its better than whatever else they have to offer there right now.

[regfootball]

Let's see how much gas guzzlers' sales will have grown at the end of '09. I might be wrong, but I firmly believe the shift towards smaller cars in the US is a permanent one.

Do Americans really want small cars? - Jerry FLint

Do Americans Really Want Small Cars?

Jerry Flint, 03.03.09, 6:00 AM ET

Smaller cars are coming--we all know that. Domestic and foreign manufacturers are about to start a wave, pushed by expected higher fuel economy requirements. These smaller autos will crowd out new versions of the larger cars we have been buying. Automakers don't have the wherewithall to build everything.

If your main concern is global warming or oil imports, this is good news. But here's the problem: Americans have not had a love affair with smaller cars. As a rule they are less comfortable, less safe and less useful--carrying fewer passengers and a smaller load.

The danger here is that our auto sales could stay smaller for another decade if owners hang on to their old SUVs and Big Boy V8s, if they don't like what the greens and government people say they should be buying.

The not-so-easy trick in small cars is making money off them. There are two ways. One is to make them expensive, like $30,000. But Americans think small cars mean cheap cars. Audi has a new small A1 for Europe but isn't bringing it here, because at current exchange rates it would cost $25,000. Dealers say it's too much: Small still means cheap.

The second way is to sell lots of them. Ford Motor, Volkswagen, Toyota and Honda all got their start with small cars and got rich at it. But the smallest cars, like the Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris and VW Rabbit, are made in high volume in foreign factories, and a few thousand are shipped here.

A company needs annual production of 150,000-300,000 vehicles, a full factory's worth, to be profitable. Ford will try to build its small car in Mexico. We'll have to see if they can sell enough to make a dollar.

But remember, small-car volume is fairly small.

Last year, Toyota sold 102,000 Yaris models, Honda sold 80,000 Fits and BMW sold 54,000 Minis. That's out of 13 million total sales in the U.S. There's no way those cars could be produced here profitably at those numbers. And the small cars--and there are others besides those named--got a boost when gasoline prices soared past $4 a gallon. But most fell back with fuel prices.

Meanwhile, it's a good idea to remember how well the big stuff sold: Ford's F series pickups sold 516,000 last year; Chevy Tahoe SUVs, 92,000; and Toyota Highlander SUVs, 105,000 (higher than the Yaris sales). Big car sales were down, but they were still ahead of the small cars.

Now, just a bit of history. At the end of World War II, both General Motors and Ford planned to build small cars, but they discovered they could build a bigger car for about the same money, so they killed the projects. After a terrible sales collapse in 1958 and an intellectual rebellion against big cars (much like today), Detroit created the smaller 1960 Ford's Falcon (400,000 sales a year), Chevy designed the Corvair and Plymouth the Valiant. But they faded as times got better.

In the '70s, there was another wave: the Ford Pinto, the Chevy Vega, the American Motors Gremlin. But they faded away, too.

Even the famous Volkswagen Beetle faded, and the small Japanese cars were failing when an oil crisis revived them. In a nutshell, we've had smaller cars become successful for a while here, often in bad times, but their sales always fell back. Plus they seem to grow bigger every year, like the Honda Civic.

Edited March 5, 2009 by regfootball

[Satty]

Americans are idiots, whats your point?

[MyerShift]

Americans are idiots, whats your point?

Sadly true.

If FIAT helps save Chrysler, then I am all for it.

[cire]

Here you go. I put the cues from the Chrysler 200C concept on it :

That looks cool. A nice modern alternative to the PT Cruiser (which could still be relevant if Chrysler would have given it a thorough and well executed redesign).

I still think the Bravo should go to Dodge and the Lancia Delta should go to Chrysler, but Chrysler LLC only has access to Fiat brand vehicles if I am correctly understanding the terms of the agreement.

[cire]

This is the new Dodge Omni. You guys knew that, right?

I would prefer "Omni" to "Neon". I would even prefer "Shadow" to "Neon". I would prefer almost anything other than "Neon". I'm not hating on the car as much as the name. It just sounds immature and childish to me, sort of like "Cruze". The fact that the name was used simultaneously on the Dodge and Plymouth versions also kind of dilutes its appeal (although it made sense since the car was identical except for the division badge).

Actually "Dodge Bravo" has a nice ring to it (or "Chrysler Bravo" would be acceptable also).

Edited March 7, 2009 by cire

[ZL-1]

Still in the subject of Italian cars, what do you all think of the Alfa-Romeo MiTo? It's a car I'd think about when the time to replace the MINI comes...

[Satty]

Still in the subject of Italian cars, what do you all think of the Alfa-Romeo MiTo? It's a car I'd think about when the time to replace the MINI comes...

Lights seem awkwardly large.

[ZL-1]

Lights seem awkwardly large.

It's big eyed, but a real looker. Here it is next to the 8C:

Edited March 8, 2009 by ZL-1

[Intrepidation]

I like it a lot besides the face...it's not as good as the 8C...which manages to pull of f the styling features without looking like it was just anally probed.

[ZL-1]

I like it a lot besides the face...it's not as good as the 8C...which manages to pull of f the styling features without looking like it was just anally probed.

I think the main difference is in the height of the front end. The 8C is much lower and ends up looking much sleeker. The 147 replacement will have a front end similar to the MiTo, but it will ride on the Bravo's platform. Hopefully with the Bravo's wheelbase and not the Delta's.

If Saab dies, some kind of Alfa could be waiting for me

Edited March 8, 2009 by ZL-1

[Oracle of Delphi]

I'd rather walk. The front fascia looks like it's sucking on a lemon. Alfas are among the most expensive and time-consuming cars to fix when things go wrong, and according to the Euro Auto rags, they continue to sit near the bottom of the reliability table.

[ZL-1]

I'd rather walk. The front fascia looks like it's sucking on a lemon. Alfas are among the most expensive and time-consuming cars to fix when things go wrong, and according to the Euro Auto rags, they continue to sit near the bottom of the reliability table.

Yet it is usually the VW/Audi Tdi that require 4000 to 5000 euro engine repairs while many JTD Alfas seem to run forever...

On a side note (an interesting one) the Saab 9-3 has appeared at the top in terms of reliability in a Europe-wide survey.

[MyerShift]

Yet it is usually the VW/Audi Tdi that require 4000 to 5000 euro engine repairs while many JTD Alfas seem to run forever...

I can't speak for Alfa of course, but considering all of the issues I have encountered in 1 year of new Volkswagen ownership, I can't envision how the hell they became the world's third largest automotive group with ever increasing sales.

Based on my experience, I'm shocked VW hasn't faltered more spectacularly on a global scale.