Rumormill: Chrysler cancels development of Phoenix V6 engines

[VenSeattle]

Rumormill: Chrysler cancels development of Phoenix V6 engines
Posted Oct 21st 2008 1:28PM
Link to Autoblog

The Chrysler rumormill is running at full steam for obvious reasons, and the latest talk surrounds Chrysler and its $3 billion Phoenix V6 engine program. Word on the street is that the project has been canceled, which makes abundant sense if in fact a Chrysler merger is imminent. If a deal to merge Chrysler with either General Motors or Renault/Nissan materializes, both potential mates have V6 engines that are vastly superior to anything nestled under the hood of a Chrysler, Dodge or Jeep. Why would either automaker want to spend $3 billion for something it already has?

There seems to be little doubt among analysts that Chrysler will merge with another automaker, and the only question at this point is whether it will be GM, Renault/Nissan or some mixture of the two. Continuing to spend money on projects like a new V6 engine or a new dual clutch transmission doesn't make much sense at this point, especially since Chrysler's suitors already have or are working on these technologies. Thanks for the tip, Jason!

[MyerShift]

I really don't think that this would be the case unless Chrysler is in fact being totally shut down.

These engines are already far along in development and it would certainly cost more in the long run to end a project so near completion rather than just going ahead and using it.

These engines are supposedly some of the most advanced in the world, and would certainly help Chrysler out in a big way.

[Drew Dowdell]

I really don't think that this would be the case unless Chrysler is in fact being totally shut down.

These engines are already far along in development and it would certainly cost more in the long run to end a project so near completion rather than just going ahead and using it.

These engines are supposedly some of the most advanced in the world, and would certainly help Chrysler out in a big way.

What does the Phoenix line have that the HF line at GM or the VQ at Nissan/Renault don't?

I don't know much about the VQ except that it's got a great reputation. The HF is already quite versatile coming in naturally aspirated, turboed, direct injected and running displacement from 2.8 all the way up to a rumored 3.9 liters.

[MyerShift]

What does the Phoenix line have that the HF line at GM or the VQ at Nissan/Renault don't?

I don't know much about the VQ except that it's got a great reputation. The HF is already quite versatile coming in naturally aspirated, turboed, direct injected and running displacement from 2.8 all the way up to a rumored 3.9 liters.

Phoenix Engines

Some things like these.

[loki]

I think a better V6 would certainly help keep Chrysler going...they might cut the engine plan back some, but they have to keep 1 or 2 alive , they can't survive on 4's, turbo 4s, and hemis.

[Drew Dowdell]

Doesn't look ground breaking to me. It's a V6 with VVT and cylinder deactivation. Welcome to 2005.

[pow]

Volume V6 applications are getting fewer by the day. As people start to reconsider their priorities, 270 hp in a family sedan might seem a bit superfluous.

[CMG]

Wow.

Soooo many rumors. Crazy.

The Phoenix engine is still going ahead, same as usual.

http://www.reuters.com/article/americasDea...E49M05R20081023

[thegriffon]

Mitsubishi and/or PSA might be interested in the Phoenix, if nothing else. Really, if I were Cerberus I'd be shopping Chrysler to both of these groups together, not GM or Renault/Nissan. Chrysler has minimal value to the latter, but immense to the former.

Mitsubishi is virtually invisible in NA, Dodge/Chrysler is not. Chrysler's reputation would improve dramatically if it was owned by a Japanese company.

Mitsubishi provides all Chrysler's fwd car/truck platforms, but can't sell its own in NA. So, amalgamate the product lines and sell them as Dodges:

Dodge Colt

Dodge Hornet

Dodge (Lancer)

Dodge Eclipse

Dodge Avenger

Dodge Charger

Dodge Challenger

Dodge Journey

Dodge Nitro

Dodge Grandis

Dodge Delica

Dodge Grand Caravan

Mitsubishi already shares engines with Chrysler, and could expand that, replacing the VW diesel with the new Mitsubishi 2.0 L turbo, and replacing the old 3800 with the Phoenix program, which could be shared with PSA, replacing the updated Renault/Peugeot V6.

Mitsubishi already has a DCT, which can replace the canceled Getrag program.

The Chrysler brand goes to PSA, and current cars are gradually replaced by rebadged Citroen models: Chrysler C3, Chrysler C3 Voyager, Chrysler C4, Chrysler C4 Voyager, C4 Grand Voyager, Chrysler C5, Chrysler C6, Chrysler C8 Voyager, Chrysler C8 Town and Country. Federal money pays for PSA's diesel-hybrid program and US homologation and production of PSA's high-mileage vehicles. Citroen's Airdream continues on from the Chrysler Airflow. Sell the Viper, but use the platform for a halo Peugeot sports car to showcase the LeMans V12 turbodiesel.

PSA and Mitsubishi can use Chrysler's dealer network, subject to the natural attrition happening over the next several months, GM and Renault Nissan do not want it.

Dodge gets parent Mitsubishi's B-segment models and small engines developed for the Colt and smart forfour. Chrysler gets the new-generation 1.4 and 1.6 L engines developed by BMW and built by PSA, replacing the underutilized Chrysler-BMW engines formerly built in Brazil (same dimensions, but new aluminum block and BMW's advanced injection and induction systems).

The Dodge LCVs (Ram and commercial dealer network) still go to Nissan, which is all they really want anyway. Jeep goes to the highest bidder, Lagadere (R&T, C&D) buys GEM for Matra Manufacturing, the old tooling goes to Russia and/or China, Nissan and GM share the minivans if Mitsubishi/PSA do not want them.

But then I if had been running Cerberus I would have done most of that from the start, and built a new CL-rivalling Jensen Interceptor on the LX platform. After all I can sell a 300C for maybe $35K. but a mechanically identical Jensen for over $100K. And people expect a Jensen to use a Chrysler V8.

[Drew Dowdell]

And people expect a Jensen to use a Chrysler V8.

Why would a $79 VCR use a Chrysler V8? :scratchchin:

[CMG]

Why would a $79 VCR use a Chrysler V8? :scratchchin:

Well it sure wouldn't be for weight savings!

:AH-HA_wink:

[regfootball]

Volume V6 applications are getting fewer by the day. As people start to reconsider their priorities, 270 hp in a family sedan might seem a bit superfluous.

the ridiculous thing is, its not. a good v6 in a midsize car will get very good mpg, escpecially, it won't consume hardly any more fuel than an overweight cute ute with a 4 popper.

take a crawling recreational vehicle on a 1500 mile trip and then take a 3.5v6 altima on a trip, the mileage won't be that much different.

[thegriffon]

My favorite Jensen, the 1962–1966 C-V8 (basically a Jensen 541 S with various big Chrysler V8s and an updated body):

http://www.british-steel.org/brochure/cv8/cv8.htm

The C-V8 was replaced by the Interceptor, essentially just a new Italian-designed hatchback body and updated mechanicals, including ABS (in 1966). The following year a lwb version was produced with 4wd, the Jensen FF (Formula Ferguson, as in Massey-Ferguson), all with the big Chrysler V8 and Torqueflite transmission.

A failed attempt to revive the marque in 1998 failed early this century. Just 12 examples of the new 2-seat S-V8 cabrio were built using (sacrilige!) the Mustang V8 powertrain, after the company went bust. Although they had orders and deposits for 300 cars, essentially they couldn't raise the money to actually build the cars they had spent millions of dollars developing and building a factory for.

A number of other European luxury marques used the Chrysler powertrain—Facel Vega in France, and Bristol in the UK among them. Bristol survives, building very expensive, very rare, anachronistic models using the Chrysler V8 or a modified Viper V10, and sold through a single factory dealer.

[CMG]

My favorite Jensen, the 1962–1966 C-V8 (basically a Jensen 541 S with various big Chrysler V8s and an updated body):

http://www.british-steel.org/brochure/cv8/cv8.htm

The C-V8 was replaced by the Interceptor, essentially just a new Italian-designed hatchback body and updated mechanicals, including ABS (in 1966). The following year a lwb version was produced with 4wd, the Jensen FF (Formula Ferguson, as in Massey-Ferguson), all with the big Chrysler V8 and Torqueflite transmission.

A failed attempt to revive the marque in 1998 failed early this century. Just 12 examples of the new 2-seat S-V8 cabrio were built using (sacrilige!) the Mustang V8 powertrain, after the company went bust. Although they had orders and deposits for 300 cars, essentially they couldn't raise the money to actually build the cars they had spent millions of dollars developing and building a factory for.

A number of other European luxury marques used the Chrysler powertrain—Facel Vega in France, and Bristol in the UK among them. Bristol survives, building very expensive, very rare, anachronistic models using the Chrysler V8 or a modified Viper V10, and sold through a single factory dealer.

50 Jensen Interceptors are being refurbished with LS2 power. so I hear. They will be called a "Jensen Interceptor S".

The late 80s saw a few Jensen Interceptors built with 360 MoPar power.