FUTURE PRODUCTS -- GENERAL MOTORS

[Oracle of Delphi]

Jamie LaReau

Automotive News

August 25, 2008 - 12:01 am ET

The dreams of making Pontiac into an exclusively rear-wheel-drive brand have been put on hold, possibly permanently.

Small front-drive cars will make up a significant portion of Pontiac's future product line. And like most everything in General Motors' stable, Pontiac's future lineup is affected by new corporate average fuel economy requirements and GM's tight cash supply.

The bottom line: It will be difficult to create a unique identity for Pontiac, separating it from Chevrolet.

G3: An entry-level car based on the Chevrolet Aveo is likely to be imported for the 2009 model year. The G3 would be developed on GM's global Gamma architecture.

Sedan: A sedan sized between the Aveo and Pontiac G5 is under consideration for Pontiac or Buick for the 2012 model year. Because Pontiac and Buick are sold under one roof at most dealerships, only one brand will get the car, which likely would be imported.

Sedan: In light of high gasoline prices, a Pontiac based on the 2010 Chevy Cruze may arrive as early as the 2011 model year. The car would be developed on GM's new fwd Delta global vehicle architecture. It likely will replace the G5.

G6: GM management has flipped-flopped product strategy on this model several times.

Initially, the automaker planned to restyle and re-engineer the G6 around the 2011 model year. The car was scheduled to be developed on GM's next-generation Epsilon vehicle architecture.

Then, in an effort to distinguish Pontiac from Chevrolet, GM decided to make Pontiac a rwd brand. The redesigned, rwd G6 was slated to debut around the 2012 model year. GM's new rwd Alpha architecture was expected to be used.

G8: The G8, assembled in Australia, is the first car sold in the United States that was developed on GM's global rwd vehicle architecture, known as Zeta. The car went on sale earlier this year as a 2008 model.

Pontiac will expand the G8 line with a 2010 G8 sport truck, the G8 ST. The truck, a niche product also out of Holden, is reminiscent of the Chevrolet El Camino, which featured a small pickup bed.

Solstice: The 2009 product line is doubled with the addition of a fastback coupe.

The Solstice line will get higher-horsepower engines, but not a V-6. The car is a candidate for GM's new 1.4-liter turbo four-cylinder engine.

What happens next will be based on Solstice sales and whether GM can afford a next generation.

Vibe: Pontiac launched a restyled, re-engineered Vibe for the 2009 model year. The hatchback likely won't be due for a freshening until the 2011 model year.

Torrent: The Torrent crossover ends production in 2009. That leaves Pontiac a car-only line, which is what GM wants it to be as part of the Buick-Pontiac-GMC sales channel.

Link: http://www.autonews.com/article/20080825/ANA03/808250312

Edited August 31, 2008 by Pontiac Custom-S

[ocnblu]

No surprises here. This is what a lot of us expected, with our new lowered expectations. All I ask is, give Pontiac its own sheetmetal, wheels and interiors until things get better.

[MysteriousSol]

Next Gen Solstice.....E-Rev.

I'll be in heaven.

[Lamar]

No surprises here. This is what a lot of us expected, with our new lowered expectations. All I ask is, give Pontiac its own sheetmetal, wheels and good interiors until things get better.

Fixed. Does anyone know if the Pontiacs are getting upgraded center stacks a la Buick?

Edited August 31, 2008 by Lamar

[gm4life]

That is what I am hoping for too guys. Unique styling and interiors.

[Northstar]

This is stupid. If GM can only give Pontiac minimal investment, give them the Solstice and an Alpha-based sedan. Perhaps continue to import the G8 sense it's basically free in terms of R&D anyways. There's no reason the Solstice and a compact sedan can't achieve good MPGs... if the G8 has to die because of MPGs, then so be at, but at least give Pontiac something that's desirable for a different reason than a Chevy FWD generic.

[VenSeattle]

It's pretty apparent that GM has made up its mind to downsize the amount of brands sold.

Futures aren't looking well for at least couple of them... if not most.

[Northstar]

It's pretty apparent that GM has made up its mind to downsize the amount of brands sold.

Futures aren't looking well for at least couple of them... if not most.

Well, I'm not so sure GM is really going to kill any brand names, but Pontiac is essentially dead with this lineup, as it is just rebadged Chevys. The name may not die, but anything resembling a unique brand with any appealing products that can't be found as almost identical vehicles at Chevy is dead.

[balthazar]

C'mon Northie- could you be a little closer to the truth than that ("just rebadged Chevys")?

[GMTruckGuy74]

As much as I'd like a GMC Truck next November (and I know that brand is not safe either), I'm thinking I should buy a brand new Pontiac G8 while I can. It seems as if GM will remove the only true Pontiacs (G8 & Solstice) in the very near future and bring the '80s back by offering mildly rebadged Chevies as Pontiacs

[ocnblu]

You bring up a good point. Those of us (me included) who wished for an all-RWD Pontiac lineup are forgetting that Pontiac has been a shadow of Chevrolet off and on throughout its existence. This latest plan is not something entirely different from what has come before, over and over again. When and if times get better and GM is rolling in dough again, I am sure if there is a car guy left in management at the Corporation, there'll be some hot Pontiacs coming down the pike. Right now, with the way things are at GM, I am just glad they're keeping the brand going.

[Oracle of Delphi]

As much as I'd like a GMC Truck next November (and I know that brand is not safe either), I'm thinking I should buy a brand new Pontiac G8 while I can. It seems as if GM will remove the only true Pontiacs (G8 & Solstice) in the very near future and bring the '80s back by offering mildly rebadged Chevies as Pontiacs

Only the Solstice is a true Pontiac, the other is a pretender too.

Edited September 1, 2008 by Pontiac Custom-S

[gm4life]

Yeah I bet will see the Solestice G8 hang around tho. The G8 in spirit is a true Pontiac.

[GMTruckGuy74]

Only the Solstice is a true Pontiac, the other is a pretender too.

Well, in North America what else is rebadged using the Holden? Nada! So to North America it is a unique Pontiac, and it's a car that one could only buy if they lived in Austrailia, the Middle East, and Europe. Also, I agree with gm4life that it is a true Pontiac in spirit (however, in my opinion, it is what a Pontiac should be - a performance sedan for the average consumer to obtain).

[gm4life]

My Bonneville was called the "Great American Touring Sedan" and it has lived up to that indeed. I know it isn't super fast but it feels and looks faster than it is. Those 3.8's have a nice powerband and the 17inch chrome wheels and dual exhaust it makes you think your faster and cooler than you are. And that is okay with me. I do love that car. Hopefully next new car is a G8 or a Camaro... Here's to hoping... Although I don't need a truck a 6.0L 1/2 ton Silverado appeals to me. I just like Chevy trucks.

Edited September 1, 2008 by gm4life

[ehaase]

The G8 is a real Pontiac to me, as it is the closest thing to the great Pontiacs of the 1960's. I understand that CAFE and expensive gasoline may soon kill such cars.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

It's pretty apparent that GM has made up its mind to downsize the amount of brands sold.

Futures aren't looking well for at least couple of them... if not most.

I don't think so.

I think GM itself is in too much trouble right now for them to worry about brands. They need "share product" out and they need it like yesterday. So that's what they're producing.

Well, I'm not so sure GM is really going to kill any brand names, but Pontiac is essentially dead with this lineup, as it is just rebadged Chevys. The name may not die, but anything resembling a unique brand with any appealing products that can't be found as almost identical vehicles at Chevy is dead.

Unless GM gives Pontiac uniqueness with the current crop of products. It doesn't have to be RWD V8 for it to be 'distinctly Pontiac' Hell, with the lose 're-badge' terms thrown around these days, the CTS may as well be a rebadged G8.

This dealer channel needs volume too and there is no reason that 2 volume divisions couldn't exist at GM, especially if they're aimed at different segments of the market. Actually, that's all the better since GM could really (With a little luck and good marketing) reverse the share slide.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

You bring up a good point. Those of us (me included) who wished for an all-RWD Pontiac lineup are forgetting that Pontiac has been a shadow of Chevrolet off and on throughout its existence. This latest plan is not something entirely different from what has come before, over and over again. When and if times get better and GM is rolling in dough again, I am sure if there is a car guy left in management at the Corporation, there'll be some hot Pontiacs coming down the pike. Right now, with the way things are at GM, I am just glad they're keeping the brand going.

+1

[VenSeattle]

To go off of Ocn & FOG's comments... Since GM isn't too concerned about "platform sharing" and "rebadging" then why not go all the way? If GM is willing to keep the G-Platform vehicles around, then why not keep SIGMA around and share it with other brands? Reskin the STS and give it to Chevrolet as an Impala/Caprice? Reskin the CTS coupe into a Buick Riviera? Similar maneuvers have been done before...

[hyperv6]

I agree as Pontiac has been nothing but a hand me down from Chevy even farther back than some want to admit.

The great GTO's were all Chevelle A body based. The Firebird whould not be if there was no Camaro. The Large Pontiac cars were all based on the GM full size platforms for years. They got different trim and for a while different engines but they still were based on the other lines sold by GM in the states.

The crazy truth is the only 100% Pontiac that has been made in decades was the Fiero 2M4. The P car was Pontiac only and while it shares some parts most were redesigned to fit the Fiero and were not interchangable with any other GM cars . Also the 4 cylinder Iron Duke was a Pontiac engine. Then lets not forget this was one of the last Pontiacs built in Pontiac MI.

I find the G8 be more Pontiac than many of their past models as this car was not shared till the Camaro in the states and for once Pontiac got the platform first VS the past where Chevy would get it first.

I would be fine with only 4-5 true perfromance base cars RWD and FWD mix. I have learned GM can make a FWD performance car after buying my HHR SS. If a G5 ran like that I could respect it as a Pontiac.

As for calling the Bonneville the "Great American Touring Sedan" That crap has to stop. If they want respect Pontiac can be just a Great America Car it has to be a great Car period.

Right now Chevy is selling some damn good cars and if you want people to buy Pontiacs you need to give them a reason. The HHR SS and Malibu I just bought were both better than the offerings from Pontiac. They also were cheaper. I am a die hard Pontiac fan and I am buying Chevys is that telling you something about Pontiac and what they are offering. If they can't sell me a Pontiac fan a car then who the hell are they going to sell them too?

If Pontiac had gotten the Astra restyled as a Pontiac G5 with a 260 Turbo I might have looked. IF Pontiac has a G6 that was advancing with improvment vs not much better than a few years ago I might have looked.

If Pontiac had offered a 260 HP Turbo in a small RWD sedan I would be all over it.

The hell with the old names as the new cars have to be different. It is the products that make the differance and not the name. You could have called the G6 a Grand and a G5 a Sunbird and I still would not have bought one.

Right now the only two cars they have I was intersted in was the Solstice which I had to pass on as I need more than two seats. Also I looked at a G8 ST but again two seats. I may replace the wifes GTP with a G8 if they are still around when it is time.

One last note the Malibu I bought for my Mom made me wake up and realize how cruddy my GTP is. The 2LT I got for $20K is quieter, better interior, rides better, handels as well and is nealry as fast. has a 24 vlave V6 with a six speed tranny. The sad part is the V6 2LT is not even a performance car and is a better all around car than my Comp G.

At the Pontiac Nationals this year it was generally accepted by many if GM ever files for reorganization Pontiac will be gone. If the market does not improve that could very well happen. It is sad even the base is accepting of the fact Pontiac could be gone with little out rage.

[ToniCipriani]

G6: GM management has flipped-flopped product strategy on this model several times.

Initially, the automaker planned to restyle and re-engineer the G6 around the 2011 model year. The car was scheduled to be developed on GM's next-generation Epsilon vehicle architecture.

Then, in an effort to distinguish Pontiac from Chevrolet, GM decided to make Pontiac a rwd brand. The redesigned, rwd G6 was slated to debut around the 2012 model year. GM's new rwd Alpha architecture was expected to be used.

So the where's the rest of the story? I know we're getting the awful 2010, but then what after? I really hope the Alpha one makes it.

[MysteriousSol]

Pontiac is Holden all the way through.

You'll see when Holden shows their E-Flex model.........guess what? It's a performance model and it's what Pontiac will become.

Don't fret about Pontiac....it has a future in the electrification of the automobile and it's the "performance brand" of electric cars.

Monster torque!

[Robert Hall]

Pontiac is Holden all the way through.

Monster torque!

Actually, Holden only has a few models that are Pontiac-ish--the performance versions of the Commodore. The LWB Caprice and Statesman are Buickish (i.e Park Avenue in China), and the rest of their line is FWD generics---Chevywoo crap and Opels.

[gm4life]

I am just glad Pontiac is around. I won't be suprised to see some rebadging/platform sharing but I hope and believe GM can do better than the G5/Cobalt.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Here's the long and short of it for Pontiac. The future is not so bright at Pontiac.

2009 - G3 Debuts, Solstice coupe debuts, Vibe restyled/re-engineered

2010 - Possible G5 replacement, G8 ST debuts

2011 - Nothing

2012 - Possible small imported car

[balthazar]

hyperv6- >>"I agree as Pontiac has been nothing but a hand me down from Chevy even farther back than some want to admit.

The great GTO's were all Chevelle A body based. The Firebird whould not be if there was no Camaro. The Large Pontiac cars were all based on the GM full size platforms for years. They got different trim and for a while different engines but they still were based on the other lines sold by GM in the states."<<

You know I'm going to hit you on this one, right?

I'm willing to admit that Pontiac has been a "hand me down from Chevy" since... hm-mmm.... I'm gonna say 19....15. Which is really saying something since Pontiac wasn't introduced since 1926.

Let's get real.

GTOs were not 'Chevelle-based'; these cars were co-developed off of a quantity of corporate & Fisher Body parameters- never was a Malibu/Chevelle re-engineered into a Tempest/GTO. Fallacy. It's equally as correct to say a given Chevelle was GTO-based.

Big Pontiacs were not based on "GM full-size platforms" (nevermind that the term is an anachronism in the BOF years), again; they were co-developed simultaneously as were the other divisions' full-size cars, using the same sort of parameters, using proprietory engineering & powertrains.

The only factual thing I quoted from you was that the Firebird WAS engineered off of the Camaro, but this was entirely due to the fact that the Banshee was denied by the 14th floor and PMD was tossed the 'Camaro bone'. There may not have been a Firebird otherwise, but there almost was a Banshee- and that was all Pontiac yet again.

At SOME point, yes; inter-divisional sharing increased to the point a major percentage of interchangability was possible. It wasn't in the 1940s, '50s, or '60s. I would strongly tend to believe it did not happen for the big cars until the downsize of 1977. '77 was a major design/engineering contraction. A-Bodies started considerable component sharing in GM, but it did not spread to the big cars until almost 20 years later.

So when exactly do you feel Pontiacs became "handed-down Chevys" ? Why beat around the bush on this damnation- let's get it out there.

This sort of broad-brush over-simplification does no one any favors, nor does it represent the truth. It only serves one end, that those who have not researched the facts assume this: All Pontiacs thruout the Division's history have been Chevy rebadges.

Is that something you truely believe?

[hyperv6]

hyperv6- >>"I agree as Pontiac has been nothing but a hand me down from Chevy even farther back than some want to admit.

The great GTO's were all Chevelle A body based. The Firebird whould not be if there was no Camaro. The Large Pontiac cars were all based on the GM full size platforms for years. They got different trim and for a while different engines but they still were based on the other lines sold by GM in the states."<<

You know I'm going to hit you on this one, right?

I'm willing to admit that Pontiac has been a "hand me down from Chevy" since... hm-mmm.... I'm gonna say 19....15. Which is really saying something since Pontiac wasn't introduced since 1926.

Let's get real.

GTOs were not 'Chevelle-based'; these cars were co-developed off of a quantity of corporate & Fisher Body parameters- never was a Malibu/Chevelle re-engineered into a Tempest/GTO. Fallacy. It's equally as correct to say a given Chevelle was GTO-based.

Big Pontiacs were not based on "GM full-size platforms" (nevermind that the term is an anachronism in the BOF years), again; they were co-developed simultaneously as were the other divisions' full-size cars, using the same sort of parameters, using proprietory engineering & powertrains.

The only factual thing I quoted from you was that the Firebird WAS engineered off of the Camaro, but this was entirely due to the fact that the Banshee was denied by the 14th floor and PMD was tossed the 'Camaro bone'. There may not have been a Firebird otherwise, but there almost was a Banshee- and that was all Pontiac yet again.

At SOME point, yes; inter-divisional sharing increased to the point a major percentage of interchangability was possible. It wasn't in the 1940s, '50s, or '60s. I would strongly tend to believe it did not happen for the big cars until the downsize of 1977. '77 was a major design/engineering contraction. A-Bodies started considerable component sharing in GM, but it did not spread to the big cars until almost 20 years later.

So when exactly do you feel Pontiacs became "handed-down Chevys" ? Why beat around the bush on this damnation- let's get it out there.

This sort of broad-brush over-simplification does no one any favors, nor does it represent the truth. It only serves one end, that those who have not researched the facts assume this: All Pontiacs thruout the Division's history have been Chevy rebadges.

Is that something you truely believe?

I agree that prior to 1977 there were more differances but the GTO was a A body. They may have called it a Fisher body then and today they call it a corperate platform. Times change but other the engines and rear ends they are no different for the most part than todays cars with some styling changes and and different suspension tuning.

I will agree they did do a better job than they did in Canada with the Beumont and Arcadia.

But everytime I have seen or replace things like 12 bolt rear ends that bolt straight in to replace the Pontiac part or pull out a Small Block Chevy that was a streaight bolt in to replace the 400 boltin with mounts and bell housing it remind me just how close these cars really were. On the good note the corperate window cranks and other mechanical bits do make them easier to restore.

I am not saying Pontiac did a bad job on their versions in the 60 but they were still a shared car to a greatr degree.

The 55-57 Nomad and Safari are good exaples of cake with different frosting. The different fenders and rngine did not hide the roof line and what it was based on.

[ToniCipriani]

Here's the long and short of it for Pontiac. The future is not so bright at Pontiac.

2009 - G3 Debuts, Solstice coupe debuts, Vibe restyled/re-engineered

2010 - Possible G5 replacement, G8 ST debuts

2011 - Nothing

2012 - Possible small imported car

You missed one. The spied G6.

[Oracle of Delphi]

You missed one. The spied G6.

I didn't miss it, no decision has been made on the G6, it may get pushed back as far as 2013. I only went to 2012.

[frogger]

Meh if it drives the same as a FWD Chevy, I'm not interested. So much for an American BMW. I guess its up to Caddy to build a 3300lb RWD sedan.

[Robert Hall]

Meh if it drives the same as a FWD Chevy, I'm not interested. So much for an American BMW. I guess its up to Caddy to build a 3300lb RWD sedan.

Well, they have to keep Avis supplied w/ cars...that's been Pontiac's growth market in recent years..

[Robert Hall]

More bad news, potentially..I guess 2 seat sports cars don't fit with the business model of all FWD generics, all the time...

Rumor: GM kills Kappa II

[gm4life]

So the G6 will stay the same for another 2-3 years? If so that is just stupid. 2010 there should be a new one introduced.

[frogger]

So the G6 will stay the same for another 2-3 years? If so that is just stupid. 2010 there should be a new one introduced.

Oh it is "new" for 2010 lol

http://www.leftlanenews.com/pontiac-g6-con...ble-future.html

[Lamar]

More bad news, potentially..I guess 2 seat sports cars don't fit with the business model of all FWD generics, all the time...

Rumor: GM kills Kappa II

I just read that too. Let's hope it is just a rumor.

[cire]

So the G6 will stay the same for another 2-3 years? If so that is just stupid. 2010 there should be a new one introduced.

The way GM treats Pontiac, I wouldn't be surprised if they keep producing the current version until they can align the next gen version with the Eps II based Malibu. Since the subcompact and compact Pontiacs will be twin-nostrilized Chevys, why not have the midsize product follow the same pattern? Pontiac could be so much more if GM would open their eyes. Instead, the brand will be diluted to within an inch of its existence with rebadged Chevys. Although I know it will never happen, this is why I would still like to see Pontiac aligned with Opel. Opel's products seem to be sportier, edgier, and more aspirational than their Chevy counterparts and could be used to restore a little luster and attitude back to the Pontiac brand image. The Insignia and next gen Corsa/Astra would make nice products that could effectively straddle the line between fuel efficiency and sportiness for Pontiac (maybe augmented with a coupe of RWD products to complete the lineup). Instead, GM prefers to foolishly waste Opel's North American potential on Saturn. Saturn is nothing more than a mainstream alternative to Chevy for people who want an affordable GM without the perceived stigma of the Chevrolet badge. It will never be perceived as anything but an affordable brand in the market (Despite GM's half-baked, mediocre attempts to move it upmarket). Why not give this brand significantly restyled Chevy products (altered front/rear and interior designs) and use Opel to restore Pontiac to its rightful place as the aspirational bridge between Chevy and Buick? Pontiac still somewhat has the brand image and a much large dealership base for this to be a successful venture for both Pontiac and GM.

PCS: I know this is not planned and will never happen. It's just a suggestion. I know it is and will continue to be an unrealized dream (just as much as my first preference of Pontiac receiving an all RWD lineup). It would just be nice to see GM give some respect and preference to Pontiac (a brand that has much more heritage with GM) for a change instead of trying to make Saturn (an unncecessary measure by GM to appeal to import shoppers instead of just simply investing money to make improved products) something it's not and was never intended to be. I do respect your insight and connections to the inner workings of GM and I appreciate you letting us all know what's up. At least I am not too surprised or shocked when another rebadged Chevy shows up in Pontiac's showroom.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

The way GM treats Pontiac, I wouldn't be surprised if they keep producing the current version until they can align the next gen version with the Eps II based Malibu. Since the subcompact and compact Pontiacs will be twin-nostrilized Chevys, why not have the midsize product follow the same pattern? Pontiac could be so much more if GM would open their eyes. Instead, the brand will be diluted to within an inch of its existence with rebadged Chevys. Although I know it will never happen, this is why I would still like to see Pontiac aligned with Opel. Opel's products seem to be sportier, edgier, and more aspirational than their Chevy counterparts and could be used to restore a little luster and attitude back to the Pontiac brand image. The Insignia and next gen Corsa/Astra would make nice products that could effectively straddle the line between fuel efficiency and sportiness for Pontiac (maybe augmented with a coupe of RWD products to complete the lineup). Instead, GM prefers to foolishly waste Opel's North American potential on Saturn. Saturn is nothing more than a mainstream alternative to Chevy for people who want an affordable GM without the perceived stigma of the Chevrolet badge. It will never be perceived as anything but an affordable brand in the market (Despite GM's half-baked, mediocre attempts to move it upmarket). Why not give this brand significantly restyled Chevy products (altered front/rear and interior designs) and use Opel to restore Pontiac to its rightful place as the aspirational bridge between Chevy and Buick? Pontiac still somewhat has the brand image and a much large dealership base for this to be a successful venture for both Pontiac and GM.

I agree 100% And here's the thing: Chevrolet doesn't have that big of a perception problem. And if the Volt is a hit, and it produces a few premium compacts, it'll be right there beside Saturn and there will be no use for Saturn anymore. (Remember what I said about Chevy and Saturn fighting for #1?)

The reason the Opels should go to Pontiac is because Pontiac has equity.... An established identity, good or bad. Saturn does not. Saturn is nothing more than a niche maker for the few people that won't buy a Chevrolet whereas Pontiac has an identity that is SEPERATE from Chevrolet in the mind of the consumer (Again; good or bad)

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

RE: Kappa

GM didn't make its money back fast enough to justify the investment in a new RWD – read: thirstier – platform.

Thirstier?!?!? Was Kappa II to underpin something larger as well? Last I heard Kappa was in line for the new, smaller 4 cylinders.

Maybe Alpha can save them?

[hyperv6]

RE: Kappa

Thirstier?!?!? Was Kappa II to underpin something larger as well? Last I heard Kappa was in line for the new, smaller 4 cylinders.

Maybe Alpha can save them?

That was my thought.

Kappa II may be dead but not the Solstice or Sky. If based on a Alpha it wouls share the cost with other lines while also helping spread the cost of Alpha over 5 more cars for 5 more different divisions.

It all would equal cost savings for the Alpha and Solstice/Sky.

[cire]

That was my thought.

Kappa II may be dead but not the Solstice or Sky. If based on a Alpha it wouls share the cost with other lines while also helping spread the cost of Alpha over 5 more cars for 5 more different divisions.

It all would equal cost savings for the Alpha and Solstice/Sky.

I have heard so many conflicting things about Alpha that I am more than a little confused about it. I have a few questions about it that can hopefully be answered from someone who has the inside scoop (like PCS).

1) What size classes can this platform cover? I've heard rumors that it can be utilized as a platform for everything from small roadsters to midsize cars.

2) Is the platform that flexible?

3)I know it is supposed to underpin a sub-CTS compact sedan for Cadillac. Will that compact Cadillac line be expanded to include a coupe or wagon? What other products will it be used for?

The only thing I can tell for sure is that Alpha is a RWD platform that slots under the Zeta and Sigma RWD platforms for GM. Other than that, everything else is a little cloudy.

Edited September 2, 2008 by cire

[hyperv6]

I have heard so many conflicting things about Alpha that I am more than a little confused about it. I have a few questions about it that can hopefully be answered from someone who has the inside scoop (like PCS).

1) What size classes can this platform cover? I've heard rumors that it can be utilized as a platform for everything from small roadsters to midsize cars.

2) Is the platform that flexible?

3)I know it is supposed to underpin a sub-CTS compact sedan for Cadillac. Will that compact Cadillac line be expanded to include a coupe or wagon? What other products will it be used for?

The only thing I can tell for sure is that Alpha is a RWD platform that slots under the Zeta and Sigma RWD platforms for GM. Other than that, everything else is a little cloudy.

Cloudy and conflicting usally means they are making changes to the platform.

I think with all the new CAFE rules it has changed GM's outlook on the Alpha and may have expanded its future roll.

Lets face it everything has to be smaller and lighter and Alpha could underpin many new cars GM has set for Zeta< Kappa and other RWD projects they may still have.

RWD is not dead but it will be smaller and mostly 4 and 6 cylinder offerings.

[Oracle of Delphi]

More bad news, potentially..I guess 2 seat sports cars don't fit with the business model of all FWD generics, all the time...

Rumor: GM kills Kappa II

Ahh, I told you that last week. Old news.

[Oracle of Delphi]

I have heard so many conflicting things about Alpha that I am more than a little confused about it. I have a few questions about it that can hopefully be answered from someone who has the inside scoop (like PCS).

1) What size classes can this platform cover? I've heard rumors that it can be utilized as a platform for everything from small roadsters to midsize cars.

2) Is the platform that flexible?

3)I know it is supposed to underpin a sub-CTS compact sedan for Cadillac. Will that compact Cadillac line be expanded to include a coupe or wagon? What other products will it be used for?

The only thing I can tell for sure is that Alpha is a RWD platform that slots under the Zeta and Sigma RWD platforms for GM. Other than that, everything else is a little cloudy.

It is very adaptable, it was designed to handle, 4, 6 and 8 cylinder engines.

[ocnblu]

Pontiac needs a 4, 6 and 8 cylinder Alpha lineup, of varying wheelbase and overall lengths. That's as simple and true a statement I can make.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Pontiac needs a 4, 6 and 8 cylinder Alpha lineup, of varying wheelbase and overall lengths. That's as simple and true a statement I can make.

You know my thoughts on that.

[ToniCipriani]

I didn't miss it, no decision has been made on the G6, it may get pushed back as far as 2013. I only went to 2012.

You gotta be effin' kidding. 2013 and all we get is a lousy bumper "upgrade"?

[Oracle of Delphi]

You gotta be effin' kidding. 2013 and all we get is a lousy bumper "upgrade"?

Yeah just a bumper upgrade, I wouldn't even call that a refresh. IMHO, I think what you are witnessing is GM starving Pontiac of product, that would be the perfect legal way to force the brand out of existence, without officially closing it down.

[ocnblu]

Borger it's funny that you have posted all these articles out of Automotive News... a publication that anyone in the automotive business could have posted, with an account. How do we know Automotive News is getting their info from people who know the truth about GM's future? How much of this is conjecture, just as any number of other press outlets have passed off as their own conjecture as fact?

[Oracle of Delphi]

Borger it's funny that you have posted all these articles out of Automotive News... a publication that anyone in the automotive business could have posted, with an account. How do we know Automotive News is getting their info from people who know the truth about GM's future? How much of this is conjecture, just as any number of other press outlets have passed off as their own conjecture as fact?

Automotive News ran a series of articles with their own reporter after he had spoken to a number of high level GM officials. As far as I know, (and yes I have a subscription there), he spoke to many GM sources. I was not one of them, if that's what you are trying to infer.

Edited September 2, 2008 by Pontiac Custom-S

[ocnblu]

No, I wasn't inferring that atall.