In-Depth Look At Retiree Health Cost Increases

[Guest Josh]

Courtesy of WDIV local 4 Detroit

http://www.clickondetroit.com/download/2005/1020/5134795.pdf

[Ghost Dog]

Shoemaker ***ked em on that one. Nice to see senior retirees get hit with a 252 dollar a month enema . (sarcasm) But they'll probabley just drop thier healthcare. Get sick and suffer.

[Simon C]

It's sad. As an hourly active worker, I'd rather take the brunt of the costs, and let the retirees alone.

[evok]

Shoemaker ***ked  em on that one.   Nice to see senior retirees get hit with a 252 dollar a month enema . (sarcasm)

But they'll probabley just drop thier healthcare.  Get sick and suffer.

[post="31770"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Look behind the spin. At aged 65 medicare kicks in as does the new prescription drug coverage. We all take it up the a$$ as soon as this administration figures out how to pay for it.

The burden was shifted. Edited October 24, 2005 by evok

[Fiero88]

It's sad. As an hourly active worker, I'd rather take the brunt of the costs, and let the retirees alone.

[post="33273"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Let's see as an active worker the way I see your cost may be construed as $2,080.00 - $3,000.00 annually(depending on overtime) for supporting retirees healthcare. GM agrees to continue paying all the cost of their active UAW employees healthcare. All that money goes into a VEBA account, you don't see it GM never gives it to you, actually GM pays this VEBA money, you just agree to forgo future pay raises so GM can pay into this account. Now GM also agrees to pay an additional 1 billion in 2006, 1 billion in 2007, and 1 billion in 2011 if it doesn't get renegotiated at contract time into this so called VEBA account. The UAW will administer this account, ie skim money off the top and then return whats left to GM where GM will then disburse the funds to help defray the cost of retiree healthcare. So actually what are the active employees going to be credited for paying in the way of their healthcare cost? Say this with me NOTHING, DIDDLY, SQUAT. You guys and gals will still not be contributing any more to your healthcare than you ever have from contract to contract. GM get's a great big break on their expense account the UAW will skim off UNTOLD amounts of cash and your pay will actually be less than it should. So contract time rolls arround in 2008 and the company and all of America will be screamin once again for you overpaid UAW workers to pay for some of your healthcare. GREAT DEAL HUH?

Oh by the way how does GM and the UAW handle disbursements and at what rate from this VEBA account, and how public will this accounting be? If it's like the UAW/GM Joint Funds account it will be run totally in the black and you the rank and file will never know what is going on with the money. Of course most people will say it was never your money in the first place.

I wonder why the UAW didn't just agree to each of it's members contributing $40.00 weekly to help defray their healthcare cost. This sure would have been a simpler plan and it would of been more palatable to give up money you received to pay for service you will get, then to not get future moneys, and eventually not even get credit for giving it. Oh well it's the way GM and the UAW want to do it so I guess if your UAW you just agree to it and wait for the next scr#wing. Edited October 24, 2005 by Fiero88

[Simon C]

Fiero88, Wow, you sure have it all figured out. What we gave up and what we should have given up ... it's almost as if you know what your talking about. But, we know better. As I was saying in my previous statement, I would have rather paid more to help the retirees, who are on a fixed income. Fiero how you came up with all the stuff you wrote ... I don't know, but it was fun to read. Now I have to put you on my Cheersandgears "Dummy" list. Your not No.1, but your up there. :)

[Fiero88]

Fiero88,
Wow, you sure have it all figured out. What we gave up and what we should have given up ... it's almost as if you know what your talking about. But, we know better.
As I was saying in my previous statement, I would have rather paid more to help the retirees, who are on a fixed income. Fiero how you came up with all the stuff you wrote ... I don't know, but it was fun to read.
Now I have to put you on my Cheersandgears "Dummy" list. Your not No.1, but your up there.  :)

[post="33774"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I like being on your "Dummy" list, I much prefer that to being on your "buddy" list.

Now, why wouldn't it be better for the individual UAW employee to pay in $1.00 an hour to a Healthcare expense account or insurance policy just like the "White Collar" work force does in every paycheck. Seems to me that has been the whole argument from the beginning of all this to get the UAW employee to pay into healthcare. If they go with the plan as it was presented on the news, the active employee will still not be paying a dime into their healthcare and all you "yea hoos" would still be able to complain about them not paying anything for their healthcare.
Instead, the UAW employee "should" be paying "in" exactly what you are asking him to "give up" ($1.00). That way he won't be the "dummy" employee expecting to see an accounting on his paycheck for those funds that he won't get?
I would also presume it would be easier, faster, and more efficient if GM wanted UAW employees to help pay for their healthcare to just start taking that out as a deduction at the begining of the year vs. trying to snowball all those employees into giving up a contractually negotiated raise.
If it has to be voted on and ratified I think it would be easier to pass if it was accounted for properly on the employees paycheck stub as a healthcare expense deduction.
I know, I wouldn't want to have a $1.00 an hour disappear from my check with no accountability. I would also bet money you wouldn't either.

Why does the UAW have to be involved in paying bills that GM is ultimately responsible for anyway? It's just an added "administrative" burden that's not actually necessary. Edited October 26, 2005 by Fiero88

[Fiero88]

Hey let's entertain a hypothesis: GM is thinking about giving the UAW all pensions and healthcare responsibility, through this mechanism, the UAW administered VEBA account. These could be just the precursor steps for GM to give the UAW Union all of it's Funded/Underfunded benefit money's and obligations. Leaving the UAW and it's workforce with trying to figure out if it's enough to cover those obligations? Now before everyone gets excited read my first sentence again. "Hey let's entertain a hypothesis:" Edited October 25, 2005 by Fiero88

[Fiero88]

It's sad. As an hourly active worker, I'd rather take the brunt of the costs, and let the retirees alone.

[post="33273"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Under this proposal you will be taking the majority/brunt of the costs, just not all. You will also not be credited for the cost you will bare, GM will still get credit for paying the bills. They will sit up a fund with the Union administering it that "GM" will pay into not the rank and file. Your money will be gone, because you tolld GM you didn't want it anymore.
Now I am all for
Now I am all for
Now I am all for
"Now I am all for GM using a $1.00 an hour of UAW workers wages to help defray the cost of the retirees healthcare, as long as it shows on the checkstubs of indvidual GM/UAW employees the money being deducted."

I happen to be smart enough to know that no matter what they say they are going to do with a certain amout of cash, it will all be applied in some shape or form to the total overall bill. Giving the retirees a break is a wonderful conceptual idea, but the bottom line question should be if a UAW worker is giving up $1.00 an hour for every hour they work shouldn't it be represented on their paychecks as such. Maybe someone on this forum can tell me why it shouldn't or why GM/UAW have chosen to obsure the payments of money's from its UAW workforce in such a manner as to having it just become non-existent. Edited October 26, 2005 by Fiero88

[Fiero88]

In the 1963, did or didn't the UAW rank and file give GM 25 cents of their hourly wage in perpetuity to go under a fully funded healthcare plan? 1963! 1963! 1963! If they did, I would guess they have been deferring wages for sometime for their healthcare. I wonder if you compound that, and increase the value of that 25 cents every year, just like a wage increase, and then multiply it by the total number of employees, over x number of years, what that dollar figure would be. Edited October 26, 2005 by Fiero88