09 ACURA RL

[Intrepidation]

I know everyone doesn't want rear wheel drive, most people don't. Enthusiasts want rear drive, that is why front drive V8 cars or $50,000 luxury cars with front drive aren't needed any longer.

I don't expect everything to handle like a 3 or 5 series, those are the best handling cars in the entry and mid luxury segments. I expect an entry level Cadillac to be close to the 3-series in handling/performance and beat it in something. And I expect the mid level Cadillac to the same when compared to the 5-series and E-class. I wouldn't care if the CTS had a base price of $50,000 if it was better than a 5-series, I'd rather have that then the car that I've seen on Enterprise lots. I also expect Cadillac to have a real flagship car if they are going to say they are a global luxury brand like M-B, Lexus and BMW.

I expect the Malibu to be as good an Accord, or at least as good as an Altima and not have a 4-speed automatic. The 6-speed should have been out at launch, so the car doesn't give the first impression of same old GM dated 4-speed.

GM has more resources than any other car company aside from Toyota, and for years they had the most. There is no reason they can't build vehicles that are top 3 in their segment. But rather than build top notch cars, they chose rebadging and anything that can sell cheap to fleets.

From what I hear from reviews, the CTS does handle almost as good as the BMW, it has a far more inviting interior than the Germans or the Japanese, It has an excellent powertrain (3.6 DI/6-speed auto), The CTS-V will have more power than the M5.

The Malibu has the best ride/handling balance in the segment, it has a better interior than the Camry and everything else save the Accord. Its exterior looks subjectively better than the rest of the segment, it's quiet and refined, have better ergonomics than the Accord, and it has a 4-speed automatic that is one of the most durable transmissions on the planet, and it offers a 6-speed in place of the 4-speed, and one of only two cars in the entire segment to have a 4 cylinder/6-speed combo.

These are actual facts pulled from the spec sheet and various auto rags...not opinions like what you're pulling out of you ass.

[Drew Dowdell]

I expect the Malibu to be as good an Accord, or at least as good as an Altima and not have a 4-speed automatic. The 6-speed should have been out at launch, so the car doesn't give the first impression of same old GM dated 4-speed.

you mean like the 4-cylinder, 4-speed auto Camry that Toyota makes?

The 6-speed-4cylinder combo will be here in about 2 months, it will then be the first in the segment with this combination. While that cure your diaper rash?

[Robert Hall]

you mean like the 4-cylinder, 4-speed auto Camry that Toyota makes?

The 6-speed-4cylinder combo will be here in about 2 months, it will then be the first in the segment with this combination. While that cure your diaper rash?

Hmm...good point... I think there are a few 5-spd autos-4cyl combos, but I can't think of any 6/4s...

Edited February 12, 2008 by moltar

[Drew Dowdell]

How about this SMK... Cadillac does not have an entry lux vehicle to sell.... will you stop comparing it to the 3-series then? Cadillac sells a CTS and a CTS-L <psst, everyone else, it's really an STS> That will stop your whining about not having a DOHC V8, bluetooth, surround sound <completely useless feature>, etc etc. and cover BMW up to the higher end of the 5-series at which point the CTS-L-V can take over.

[smk4565]

The CTS gets close to the BMWs in handling, but doesn't have the acceleration of a 335i and it doesn't have as many luxury features offered. Despite the plastic grille, the CTS still looks way better than the 5-series, and better than the 3-series sedan; 3-series coupe and convertible look pretty good though. But the new 5-series is coming in a year and will get rid of all the Bangle mistakes, it has a hybrid aluminum/steel frame to cut weight and the M5 will have carbon fiber panels to cut even more weight plus way more power.

If the CTS-V were really better than the M5, GM would price it at $85,000 and get people to pay it.

The Malibu LTZ is the best looking midsize family sedan, looks better than most $35,000 cars. But the interior isn't as good as Honda's, reputation isn't as good as Toyota's and the 6-speed should have been available at launch not 6 months after.

The CTS and Malibu are the cars GM does well, but they have at least a dozen that are really dated and rely heavily on fleet sales or massive rebates to get off dealer lots. As compared to Honda, what is their bad car that is dated and uncompetitve? (besides the Acura RL) What is BMW's bad car? There isn't one. GM has things like the Ion, Impala, G6, G5, Torrent, DTS, Trailblazer, Uplander, etc

[smk4565]

How about this SMK... Cadillac does not have an entry lux vehicle to sell.... will you stop comparing it to the 3-series then? Cadillac sells a CTS and a CTS-L <psst, everyone else, it's really an STS> That will stop your whining about not having a DOHC V8, bluetooth, surround sound <completely useless feature>, etc etc. and cover BMW up to the higher end of the 5-series at which point the CTS-L-V can take over.

The CTS starts under $33,000, that is an entry level car. The Aurora didn't even base that low, and that is giving up 7 years worth of inflation.

The STS is bland with cheapy interior bits and it is 1 inch shorter than a 7-series, it is hardly a sporty car. It isn't a bad car, just not a great one.

Will anyone here compare the Hyudai Genesis to the CTS? Because it is has many of the same features, but a 17 speaker 500 watt stereo, and a 375 hp V8 compared to 304 hp in the CTS. If people say a CTS is better than a 3-series because it is roomier is 5-series size at 3-series price, then the Genesis is better than a CTS because it is roomier, cheaper, and has way more power.

[Lamar]

The CTS starts under $33,000, that is an entry level car. The Aurora didn't even base that low, and that is giving up 7 years worth of inflation.

The STS is bland with cheapy interior bits and it is 1 inch shorter than a 7-series, it is hardly a sporty car. It isn't a bad car, just not a great one.

Will anyone here compare the Hyudai Genesis to the CTS? Because it is has many of the same features, but a 17 speaker 500 watt stereo, and a 375 hp V8 compared to 304 hp in the CTS. If people say a CTS is better than a 3-series because it is roomier is 5-series size at 3-series price, then the Genesis is better than a CTS because it is roomier, cheaper, and has way more power.

If you're gonna compare biggest engine to biggest engine, you can't deliberately leave out the CTS-V...

Anyway, I'm guessing someone here will have to have sat in and/or test-driven a Genesis before they come to any conclusions about it.

On the other hand, in an attempt to get back on topic, I wonder if the Genesis will out-sell the RL. It very well may.

[Robert Hall]

On the other hand, in an attempt to get back on topic, I wonder if the Genesis will out-sell the RL. It very well may.

I could see that happening... the Genesis will either be a dud or a hit, I think. Is the Azera sticking around or is the Genesis more-or-less replacing it? Oddly, the Hyundai website lists the Azera as 2007, while the other models are 2008..

[regfootball]

The CTS starts under $33,000, that is an entry level car. The Aurora didn't even base that low, and that is giving up 7 years worth of inflation.

The STS is bland with cheapy interior bits and it is 1 inch shorter than a 7-series, it is hardly a sporty car. It isn't a bad car, just not a great one.

Will anyone here compare the Hyudai Genesis to the CTS? Because it is has many of the same features, but a 17 speaker 500 watt stereo, and a 375 hp V8 compared to 304 hp in the CTS. If people say a CTS is better than a 3-series because it is roomier is 5-series size at 3-series price, then the Genesis is better than a CTS because it is roomier, cheaper, and has way more power.

the part they forgot to mention. the v8 genesis will be 40 grand.

the other part people conveniently forget. the 335i is always 45 g plus.

one excoworker female got a 325 or 328 or whatever. another coworker is getting one. i wonder if it will even have real leather. vinyl seats in a subcompact car and you hope its less than 40k.

[Intrepidation]

you mean like the 4-cylinder, 4-speed auto Camry that Toyota makes?

The 6-speed-4cylinder combo will be here in about 2 months, it will then be the first in the segment with this combination. While that cure your diaper rash?

Not quite, 2nd...but it will no doubt be the least expensive.

Hmm...good point... I think there are a few 5-spd autos-4cyl combos, but I can't think of any 6/4s...

VW Passat offers that combo.

The Malibu LTZ is the best looking midsize family sedan, looks better than most $35,000 cars. But the interior isn't as good as Honda's, reputation isn't as good as Toyota's and the 6-speed should have been available at launch not 6 months after.

You mean the reputation for 6-speeds not shifting into all of their gears? Or maybe the cheaper interior? How about the slipping build quality? Maybe the sludging V6's of the previous generation? Yeah the Malibu so wishes it had that reputation.

[Drew Dowdell]

The CTS starts under $33,000, that is an entry level car. The Aurora didn't even base that low, and that is giving up 7 years worth of inflation.

The STS is bland with cheapy interior bits and it is 1 inch shorter than a 7-series, it is hardly a sporty car. It isn't a bad car, just not a great one.

Will anyone here compare the Hyudai Genesis to the CTS? Because it is has many of the same features, but a 17 speaker 500 watt stereo, and a 375 hp V8 compared to 304 hp in the CTS. If people say a CTS is better than a 3-series because it is roomier is 5-series size at 3-series price, then the Genesis is better than a CTS because it is roomier, cheaper, and has way more power.

When the Genesis can handle with the 5-series, 3-series, or CTS, then we'll talk. Why do you ignore the fact that while the 3er does accellerate faster than the heavier and larger CTS, the CTS matches it overall in handling? Is it not an accomplishment that Cadillac has built a car as large and as heavy as the 5-series that still handles with the 3er? Or did Cadillac pay off Newton this year to get pass...?

[Drew Dowdell]

Not quite, 2nd...but it will no doubt be the least expensive.

VW Passat offers that combo.

Ah, you're right. Passat 2.0 turbo. I thought the Passat was using the same 5-cylinder the Jetta has now. However, I think even the old Malibu outsold the Passat even subtracting fleets.

[smk4565]

the part they forgot to mention. the v8 genesis will be 40 grand.

the other part people conveniently forget. the 335i is always 45 g plus.

one excoworker female got a 325 or 328 or whatever. another coworker is getting one. i wonder if it will even have real leather. vinyl seats in a subcompact car and you hope its less than 40k.

I sat in a CTS at 2 different dealer showrooms, in both cases they were over $48,000. They had all wheel drive and the ultra sunroof. The Genesis at $40,000 is still pretty cheap for what you get, it beats the 300C and G8 in both interior and horsepower (aside from the SRT- and that is it's real competition. It will outsell the RL, and more importantly, it will give hyundai a better image. People hear Hyundai and still think 1992 Excel.

[smk4565]

You mean the reputation for 6-speeds not shifting into all of their gears? Or maybe the cheaper interior? How about the slipping build quality? Maybe the sludging V6's of the previous generation? Yeah the Malibu so wishes it had that reputation.

The Camry isn't a very good handling or performing car, yet they still sell 450,000 of them per year and more importantly make about $3000 on each one of them. All they are selling is the Toyota reputation for reliability. If the Camry didn't have a good reputation, it wouldn't have been the #1 seller 10 of the past 11 years.

[intrigued]

^^^

The general publics perception of the auto industry is always about 4-5 years behind where it actually is. give the camary another few years of crap reliability with more competitive cars in its class and it will start to nosedive.

The way you talk about the domestics compared to the imports it seams that you are more in line with the general publics perception of things, though maybe you're a bit behind them as they seem to be taking a great intrest in GM's new products and you can only bash them.

Also the 2001+ Aurora started at 31k, cheaper than the 33k CTS

[siegen]

It will outsell the RL, and more importantly, it will give hyundai a better image. People hear Hyundai and still think 1992 Excel.

I wouldn't put so much stock in the Genesis just yet. It will undoubtedly outsell the RL in its first year, however will it outsell what the RL sold in its first year? Perhaps.

[regfootball]

I sat in a CTS at 2 different dealer showrooms, in both cases they were over $48,000. They had all wheel drive and the ultra sunroof. The Genesis at $40,000 is still pretty cheap for what you get, it beats the 300C and G8 in both interior and horsepower (aside from the SRT- and that is it's real competition. It will outsell the RL, and more importantly, it will give hyundai a better image. People hear Hyundai and still think 1992 Excel.

well, enjoy hanging out at hollywood hotspots in your HYUNDAI then.

do you wear faux cologne too?

it's not POLO it's HORSEY

[regfootball]

I wouldn't put so much stock in the Genesis just yet. It will undoubtedly outsell the RL in its first year, however will it outsell what the RL sold in its first year? Perhaps.

i will say this. it has a real RWD chassis and a real v8 so it does have instant cred over the RL.

It has styling and interior edges as well.

[pow]

you mean like the 4-cylinder, 4-speed auto Camry that Toyota makes?

The 6-speed-4cylinder combo will be here in about 2 months, it will then be the first in the segment with this combination. While that cure your diaper rash?

The Camry has had a 4-cylinder, 5-speed auto since 2004.

GM isn't the only one with four-speed autos on their midsize sedans; the Sebring, Avenger, Galant, and Legacy have one, too.

[ponchoman49]

The grille is odd and the interior hardly looks any different but the outside looks pretty good and less bland than some other competitors such as the Lexus ES series.

[siegen]

i will say this. it has a real RWD chassis and a real v8 so it does have instant cred over the RL.

It has styling and interior edges as well.

If it's executed well and performs good. Has any reviewer driven the Genesis yet?

The revisions to the RL include rear wheel overdrive in 1st gear (it used to not kick in until 2nd gear), and an increase in the % of the overdrive. What this means is that SH-AWD is much more aggressive than it used to be, and will be considerably more noticeable, especially at lower speeds. If marketed correctly, given that it is already superior to RWD, it will have plenty of credibility. The engine on the other hand, isn't going to help. It will perform better than before, but will still lack compared to V8 competition. Acura could have easily fixed this problem by offering a supercharged version of the V6, in a Type S trim. I'm fairly certain Mugen has already designed a supercharger for the 3.5L. But they didn't (or at least it doesn't appear that they will).

[regfootball]

i SHAWD-do hope that fixes it then. doesn't cure 61% weight on the front wheel tho

[smk4565]

well, enjoy hanging out at hollywood hotspots in your HYUNDAI then.

do you wear faux cologne too?

it's not POLO it's HORSEY

That's funny because I wear Polo, but I am not buying the Hyundai. The Genesis gives the brand some credibility with their mainstream cars, and people will buy it for the 375 hp V8, and 7-series interior room at 3-series price. It could be a solid competitor, I am interested to see the magazine reviews. The Genesis will probably crush the RL in performance and be cheaper.

Edited February 13, 2008 by smk4565

[regfootball]

the RL was a C/D ten best, yet it can't sell to save its life. product excellence is no longer enough. there is a weird perception factor that drives everyone to purchase what they do, aside from things like styling, which is where acura is fumbling.

although, i think the genesis is flawed in that it does not have AWD.

[siegen]

i SHAWD-do hope that fixes it then. doesn't cure 61% weight on the front wheel tho

It doesn't help with the perfect weight distribution, but the active measurements that SH-AWD employs help to counteract the shortcomings and then further enhance the vehicle's driving dynamics past what normal 2wd mechanical LSD applications can deliver. It's more complex than a simple helical limited-slip RWD application would be, which is it's major disadvantage (weight).

Honda employs a special differential in the Japanese-only Civic Type R. It helps it to rotate like a RWD car, and the various road tests (by Best Motoring and others) confirm, as well as the track times that meet or beat the S2000!

although, i think the genesis is flawed in that it does not have AWD.

You bein sarcastic? :AH-HA_wink:

[Polish_Kris]

Everyone seem to have such a negative opinion about this car, the question is, HAVE ANY OF YOU SAT IN IT, OR EVEN GONE TO THE EXTENT OF DRIVING IT? I havn't driven it, but I can tell you the RL/Legend has never been a model that was meant for mass production. It is actually a very over-looked vehicle in it's class. It was meant for a limited audience, and loyal Honda fans. The SH AWD is prefect for Canada and the upper states, and it's a vehicle that is suppose to compete with the E-Klasse, and 3 series. Not everyone also wants FWD, nor they want RWD, this is a vehicle for those people who want a well-appointed luxury/sports sedan. Also STOP BASHING IT BECAUSE IT HAS NO V8! Honda never intended to have a V8. This is what I admire about them, they always make vehicles "the honda way". Hence why the Fridgeline and pilot are V6, car based, because they know, and specialize on car-based, 4 cyl, and 6 cyl engineering. The LaCrosse/Allure Sport is a nice vehicle, with awesome performance for the money, but yes it is still a Buick, people who don't know...... don't know that it's a performance model. And as for the Genesis, comparing apples to oranges, the Genesis is more of a competition with everyone. Actually it stands on it's own. It's more for people who want a Lexus GS for a Camry price. We shall see how it performs.

[regfootball]

You bein sarcastic? :AH-HA_wink:

no. the genesis lacks AWD option and that is a flaw. just as it is a flaw for the G8 as well.

Edited February 13, 2008 by regfootball

[regfootball]

Everyone seem to have such a negative opinion about this car, the question is, HAVE ANY OF YOU SAT IN IT, OR EVEN GONE TO THE EXTENT OF DRIVING IT? I havn't driven it, but I can tell you the RL/Legend has never been a model that was meant for mass production. It is actually a very over-looked vehicle in it's class. It was meant for a limited audience, and loyal Honda fans. The SH AWD is prefect for Canada and the upper states, and it's a vehicle that is suppose to compete with the E-Klasse, and 3 series. Not everyone also wants FWD, nor they want RWD, this is a vehicle for those people who want a well-appointed luxury/sports sedan. Also STOP BASHING IT BECAUSE IT HAS NO V8! Honda never intended to have a V8. This is what I admire about them, they always make vehicles "the honda way". Hence why the Fridgeline and pilot are V6, car based, because they know, and specialize on car-based, 4 cyl, and 6 cyl engineering. The LaCrosse/Allure Sport is a nice vehicle, with awesome performance for the money, but yes it is still a Buick, people who don't know...... don't know that it's a performance model. And as for the Genesis, comparing apples to oranges, the Genesis is more of a competition with everyone. Actually it stands on it's own. It's more for people who want a Lexus GS for a Camry price. We shall see how it performs.

sat in it. spooked by it.

if honda wants to sell a premium honda, drop the price. the RL is what, 50k? for 50k you can get a real luxury car, not just a pimped up honda. acura's existence also dumbs down regular hondas. look at the new accord. dynamically its still good but now honda is fine styling cars like kia and such. not good for honda as a whole.

mazda is poised to be a huge thorn in acuras side. nicer cars than acura for thousands and thousands less. the cx-9 is making the mdx its bitch and it looks like the new 6 will make the tsx/tl pair its bitch too.

Edited February 13, 2008 by regfootball

[Polish_Kris]

sat in it. spooked by it.

if honda wants to sell a premium honda, drop the price. the RL is what, 50k? for 50k you can get a real luxury car, not just a pimped up honda. acura's existence also dumbs down regular hondas. look at the new accord. dynamically its still good but now honda is fine styling cars like kia and such. not good for honda as a whole.

mazda is poised to be a huge thorn in acuras side. nicer cars than acura for thousands and thousands less. the cx-9 is making the mdx its bitch and it looks like the new 6 will make the tsx/tl pair its bitch too.

Agree with the price drop, but "spooked" in what ways is the interior scary?

[Cory Wolfe]

I like the original, despite its lack of style. I just can't stand this restyle. They ruined it, if you ask me.

Edited February 13, 2008 by blackviper8891

[Drew Dowdell]

Everyone seem to have such a negative opinion about this car, the question is, HAVE ANY OF YOU SAT IN IT, OR EVEN GONE TO THE EXTENT OF DRIVING IT? I havn't driven it, but I can tell you the RL/Legend has never been a model that was meant for mass production. It is actually a very over-looked vehicle in it's class. It was meant for a limited audience, and loyal Honda fans. The SH AWD is prefect for Canada and the upper states, and it's a vehicle that is suppose to compete with the E-Klasse, and 3 series. Not everyone also wants FWD, nor they want RWD, this is a vehicle for those people who want a well-appointed luxury/sports sedan. Also STOP BASHING IT BECAUSE IT HAS NO V8! Honda never intended to have a V8. This is what I admire about them, they always make vehicles "the honda way". Hence why the Fridgeline and pilot are V6, car based, because they know, and specialize on car-based, 4 cyl, and 6 cyl engineering. The LaCrosse/Allure Sport is a nice vehicle, with awesome performance for the money, but yes it is still a Buick, people who don't know...... don't know that it's a performance model. And as for the Genesis, comparing apples to oranges, the Genesis is more of a competition with everyone. Actually it stands on it's own. It's more for people who want a Lexus GS for a Camry price. We shall see how it performs.

I don't think anyone here thinks that it's a bad car.... but for somewhere between $46k and $53k there are a substantial number of equally good, yet substantially more exciting choices.

[Polish_Kris]

I like the original, despite its lack of style. I just can't stand this restyle. They ruined it, if you ask me.

Yeah those cars were built like rocks. It is possibly the last 90's Honda that continued unchanged in production until 2004, alongside the NSX. Honda wasn't Honda anymore after they dumped the double-wishbone suspension, the classical Honda interior materials, and switchgear, and the bullet-proof reliability. Now, my mechanic tells me, that most Hondas, after 2000 MY are not what they used to be. Esp, after Honda introduced the new 5 speed automatic transmission, it's been having major problems. It's gotten so bad with their new trannys that this was opened: http://www.hondatransmissionsettlement.com

Anyway, I'm currently car hunting for my mom, she needs a nice car to replace her rusting, high mileage 94 Accord. I was seriously considering a 99-04 3.5 RL, like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2004-3-5RLC...tem330211230942

or

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Leather-Sun...tem320216352882

Black on black preferably

What do you think BlackViper?

[Robert Hall]

Before my sister got into Benzes, she had a '91 Acura Legend coupe...was very reliable, and surprisingly tight at 150k miles..no squeaks or rattles.

[siegen]

sat in it. spooked by it.

I would be spooked too if I was used to ungainly Pontiac interiors and sat in an RL.

if honda wants to sell a premium honda, drop the price. the RL is what, 50k? for 50k you can get a real luxury car, not just a pimped up honda.

While I'm not always a fan of Honda's way of making everything standard, the RL does include quite a lot for $47,000 (after destination). When did RWD and V8 become a requirement to be a luxury car.

mazda is poised to be a huge thorn in acuras side. nicer cars than acura for thousands and thousands less. the cx-9 is making the mdx its bitch and it looks like the new 6 will make the tsx/tl pair its bitch too.

Lol, are you being serious??? I don't even know how to respond to this. Oh wait, I heard that the Miata is also making the Corvette its bitch. Runs circles around it! Look out world, Mazda is coming through!

Edited February 13, 2008 by siegen

[Robert Hall]

I would be spooked too if I was used to ungainly Pontiac interiors and sat in an RL.

Heh-heh...the RL, TL and even Accord interiors are way nicer, IMHO, than anything from GM (except for the CTS)...

[Polish_Kris]

I would be spooked too if I was used to ungainly Pontiac interiors and sat in an RL.

While I'm not always a fan of Honda's way of making everything standard, the RL does include quite a lot for $47,000 (after destination). When did RWD and V8 become a requirement to be a luxury car.

Lol, are you being serious??? I don't even know how to respond to this. Oh wait, I heard that the Miata is also making the Corvette its bitch. Runs circles around it! Look out world, Mazda is coming through!

LOL, compared to the Aztec interior especially! Although the Aztec is interesting, for its uniqueness, it is undoubtedly an interior to be spooked by!

Heh-heh...the RL, TL and even Accord interiors are way nicer, IMHO, than anything from GM (except for the CTS)...

Agreed, although some members of this board will consider your comment blasphemy.

Edited February 13, 2008 by Polish_Kris

[Drew Dowdell]

While I'm not always a fan of Honda's way of making everything standard, the RL does include quite a lot for $47,000 (after destination). When did RWD and V8 become a requirement to be a luxury car.

Talk to SMK about that one....

[Lamar]

Talk to SMK about that one....

Or how about not... :AH-HA_wink:

[regfootball]

well, mazda has an RX8 that will run circles around just about any honda....er.....acura.

the RL interior is spooky because its not stylish or functional. nice materials, but the design is creepy.

funny how hyundais first try at a lux car makes something like the RL pretty much useless.

[Lamar]

well, mazda has an RX8 that will run circles around just about any honda....er.....acura.

the RL interior is spooky because its not stylish or functional. nice materials, but the design is creepy.

funny how hyundais first try at a lux car makes something like the RL pretty much useless.

If that were the case, the Toyota Avalon would already have made the RL useless, from an interior perspective. The Genesis jacked the Avalon's interior design for the most part.

[ZL-1]

When did RWD and V8 become a requirement to be a luxury car.

1960?

[Drew Dowdell]

funny how hyundais third try at a lux car makes something like the RL pretty much useless.

fixed

[siegen]

well, mazda has an RX8 that will run circles around just about any honda....er.....acura.

Mazda is a mainstream brand competing with Honda. I'm quite surprised you would even remotely back the RX8, given it has even less torque than the "gutless" s2000, and weighs 200 lbs more to boot. In fact, the Japanese Civic Type R matches the RX8's torque output (a Civic!). The S2000 is faster than the RX8, the S2000 CR is even more so. I think the new Civic Type R may be quicker as well, but I don't remember the results from the Best Motoring video.

The TL Type S also posts much quicker acceleration times, although they are not really comparable cars.

funny how hyundais first try at a lux car makes something like the RL pretty much useless.

Well considering how different the RL and Genesis are, I would say it makes cars like the 5-series sedan and STS pretty much useless. The RL, on the other hand, is still quite differentiated from the Hyundai. I'm not saying the Genesis is better, we have yet to see any tests. But it is more just a copycat of the M, 5, etc.

Edited February 13, 2008 by siegen

[Intrepidation]

I liken the RL refresh to:

Edited February 13, 2008 by Dodgefan

[siegen]

mazda has an RX8

The RX8 has been overrated from the start.

Here I found a nice video (all manual transmissions).

The late Integra Type R (RSX Type S) even beat it. The '00-'04 S2000 left it in the dust. I wouldn't even want to see it up against an S2000 CR on the track. That would be embarrassing.

[Intrepidation]

The RX8 has been overrated from the start.

Here I found a nice video (all manual transmissions).

The late Integra Type R (RSX Type S) even beat it. The '00-'04 S2000 left it in the dust. I wouldn't even want to see it up against an S2000 CR on the track. That would be embarrassing.

So? a Neon SRT-4 can own an Acura RSX Type S. Most Acuras are overrated, especially the Type-S or R or F (oops, that's Lexus), and especially when it come to performance.

[siegen]

So? a Neon SRT-4 can own an Acura RSX Type S. Most Acuras are overrated, especially the Type-S or R or F (oops, that's Lexus), and especially when it come to performance.

I can throw a large turbo on an old Civic and accomplish the same thing. That's besides the point, I am responding to Reg's post. It has nothing to do with Neons.

[Drew Dowdell]

The RX8 has been overrated from the start.

Here I found a nice video (all manual transmissions).

The late Integra Type R (RSX Type S) even beat it. The '00-'04 S2000 left it in the dust. I wouldn't even want to see it up against an S2000 CR on the track. That would be embarrassing.

The RX8 is about handling and balance. The S2000 is a $35k Miata. Both of these comparisons are about as pointless as Lucerne Super v. Cadillac CTS-V comparisons.

[Robert Hall]

So? a Neon SRT-4 can own an Acura RSX Type S. Most Acuras are overrated, especially the Type-S or R or F (oops, that's Lexus), and especially when it come to performance.

The Neon was ugly with a crappy interior, though. I always laugh when someone says X 'owns' Y...'own' sounds like silly teenage videogamer lingo...

Edited February 13, 2008 by moltar

[siegen]

The RX8 is about handling and balance. The S2000 is a $35k Miata. Both of these comparisons are about as pointless as Lucerne Super v. Cadillac CTS-V comparisons.

I know, I don't see any point in comparing Mazda to Acura. There is the one obvious comparison, and that is the CX-7 and RDX, mainly because they are similar in size and powerplant. But they are very different and compete in different segments. Reg likes to compare the two brands a lot though.

The S2000 is similar to the RX8 in that it is about handling and balance, except it takes it to a much higher level. The RX8 has a back seat, adding the extra weight, which puts it at a disadvantage. However, the S2000 is a convertible, adding weight and putting it at a disadvantage to hard tops.

How do you explain the Integra Type R (which is essentially our RSX Type S) matching and even beating the RX8? The Integra was out-cornering/braking the RX8 and pulling away on the straights. We could chuck it up to a bad driver...

Omg, is this a thread about the RL? I completely forgot.