Chrysler working on emergency overhaul of Avenger & Sebring interiors

[DetroitNut90]

Chrysler has announced that it is working on an emergency interior overhaul of its Chrysler Sebring and Dodge Avenger sedans — dubbed Project D. The redesign is due to harsh criticisms of the cars' interiors. The automaker is currently assembling a team of senior managers and directors who took recent buyouts to head Project D.

Leftlane News

[Drew Dowdell]

Good good....

and the exteriors?

[bobo]

In upmarket trims, the interiors don't look half bad. It's the exterior that need a lot of work.

[siegen]

Project D?

They're just revising the interiors. Unless they're making a special Drift version of the Avenger, I don't think they need to have a special name.

Edit: Avenger is Go!

Edited December 26, 2007 by siegen

[MyerShift]

Agreed that the exteriors need something as badly if not worse (especially the Sebring) than the interiors.

Project D? Well, I guess if you're working on a major Disaster, then sure, it needs a name to have it fixed!

[Robert Hall]

One positive thing about the midsize Mopar interiors, even though their interiors are ugly w/ cheap gray plastic, at least they offer optional NAV systems..

[Duncan]

One positive thing about the midsize Mopar interiors, even though their interiors are ugly w/ cheap gray plastic, at least they offer optional NAV systems..

I don't know if that's a positive. You have to want to be in the car in order for nav to be useful...then again, they did put those handy little beer coolers in the glovebox, so at least everything can start to blur together after a while.

Of course, I don't condone drinking and driving in any form, but you would have to be drinking to buy a Sebring or Avenger...

[ocnblu]

I like the Avenger, with a spruced-up interior I'll like it even more.

[Robert Hall]

I don't know if that's a positive. You have to want to be in the car in order for nav to be useful...then again, they did put those handy little beer coolers in the glovebox, so at least everything can start to blur together after a while.

Of course, I don't condone drinking and driving in any form, but you would have to be drinking to buy a Sebring or Avenger...

Good point...I could never see buying a Sebring or Avenger over a Malibu or Accord. The FWD family sedan is not a type of car I'd ever see myself buying, though.

[Duncan]

I like the Avenger, with a spruced-up interior I'll like it even more.

To be honest, I have less of a problem with the Avenger than with the Sebring in a styling sense. So I agree with you there.

Where both cars fall flat for me is in the overridding cheapness of detail - little things like the plain black plastic panel to finish the rear window lines, the poor panel gaps, the unpainted parts on the otherwise color-keyed outside mirrors, the rough edges on various interior pieces.

It's almost like they figured "the styling will hold it together; we're not concerned with the little things." Obviously, the styling has not exactly gelled, which leaves the rest to suffer as a consequence.

What's interesting is that now we should ask the same question of Chrysler that used to be asked of GM and (to a lesser extent) Ford: "Have you never been inside a Honda or Toyota?"

Well, maybe Toyota's a bad example these days, given the latest Camry's slipping interior...

[Bimmer325]

Something tells me this won't be as drastic as Chrysler wants us to think it will be.

I've lost a lot of faith in them over the past couple of years.

[Cory Wolfe]

Hmm... When I hear "emergency overhaul" I imagine a drastic update. However, the text that accompanies that doesn't convince me. I'd have to agree with the post above mine.

[Northstar]

The emergency overhauls should have begun the day after the current interiors were improved, not 4 years after.

[regfootball]

redoing the interiors alone will not fix the car, regardless of how badly it's needed.

let's start with brutal interiors, brutal exteriors, subpar engines, undersized for midsize class (these cars are classic 'tweeners').

lastly, Avenger is a really bad name for a car in this segment. There was nothing wrong with Stratus.

Note to Bob Nardelli: here's an even quicker fix. Pay Mitsubishi to redo the Galant interior and sound deadener and rebadge and regrille a bunch of them as Intrepids or Stratus. Put the Avenger and Sebring out of its misery now. Then you have a real midsize front drive car to sell, with a new interior. It would not be a class leader, but it would be much more credible than what you are throwing out there now.

Edited December 27, 2007 by regfootball

[Drew Dowdell]

One positive thing about the midsize Mopar interiors, even though their interiors are ugly w/ cheap gray plastic, at least they offer optional NAV systems..

OMG, I was sooo totally gonna buy a Malibu, but the optional NAV in the Sebring was the cincher for me. Totally going for the Sebring now.

[Paolino]

Seriously, didn't they get anyone's opinion on the interior before it went into production?! And the exterior--can they fix it a little too? Chrysler/Dodge interiors have blown for years... they knew this, and now they're freaking out about it? C'mon already. I feel like Chrysler is an immature child I just want to say "Oh grow up already."

[A Horse With No Name]

Hmm... When I hear "emergency overhaul" I imagine a drastic update. However, the text that accompanies that doesn't convince me. I'd have to agree with the post above mine.

I feel the same way...

Chris

[regfootball]

actually the easier fix would be to just shut down and pay off all the dodge and chrylser dealerships. It would probably cost them less money.

Edited December 27, 2007 by regfootball

[regfootball]

OMG, I was sooo totally gonna buy a Malibu, but the optional NAV in the Sebring was the cincher for me. Totally going for the Sebring now.

admit it, it was the heated cupholders that did it. and the mood lighting around them.

ever need to sand a piece of wood? Just take it out to your avenger and rub it against the door panel for awhile. Be sure to vacuum up the dust when you are done.

[frogger]

Its funny you mention the heated cupholders. Its justs boggles my mind they put the effort into that but put no effort into making an interiors that don't look like they were made to sell at the dollar store.

[2005 EquinoxLS]

Seems like Chrysler is always having some problem or another. As long as I can remember. If it wasnt the poor bodies and interiors of the 1970's to nearly being bankrupt to the transmission problems to all the other things it has went through. GM may not be perfect but I will give them my money before Chrysler.

[cire]

I think the Avenger is salvage worthy if they were to genuinely overhaul the interior and modify some of the exterior elements. I do like its "mini-Charger" styling motif, it just needs to be cleaned up a little. I would also suggest changing the outdated 4 cylinder/4 speed auto trans combo to a competitive 4 cylinder/6 speed auto trans combo. They should also tune the suspension for a better blend of comfort and sportiness (biased a little more toward sportiness to compliment the "mini-Charger" styling). If they diligently address the Avenger's shortcomings, this car might become a nice, sporty, alternative sedan to the mainstream midsize segment giants (Accord & Camry).

On the other hand, I don't think the Sebring sedan is salvageable at all. Even if they do seriously overhaul the interior, the exterior's awkward and garish lack of style still won't attract customers to this car. At the very least they need to completely restyle the front and rear end treatments as well as remove the horrendous black plastic slab on the C-pillar. Even if they do these things, I'm still not sure that those actions will be enough to make the exterior attractive enough not to repel potential customers. I would seriously like to see Chrysler develop an upscale near luxury rear wheel drive midsize sedan on a shortened version of the next generation 300 platform. I think this would give the Chrysler brand a product that's more in line with what should be their upscale status in Chrysler LLC's brand hierarchy.

I still can't believe that Daimler would allow Chrysler to release such subpar products, especially in such a hotly contested category as the midsize sedan segment. Even though these products didn't have a three pointed Mercedes star attached to them, their lack of execution made Daimler look bad. I had high hopes for both the Sebring and Avenger after Chrysler had hit homeruns with the release of the rear drive 300 and Charger products. All of my great expectations were derailed when the Sebring and Avenger hit the market. Chrysler had a clean sheet opportunity to develop solid, class competitive products, but they severely dropped the ball. I hope these proposed overhauls can keep them afloat until future, hopefully superior next generation versions can be created and produced.

[regfootball]

well, to expand on that, it really goes to show you how unable Germans are to throw a car together when there is actually a budget to adhere to and a limit put on how much frickin ballast you can put in the car.

Edited December 28, 2007 by regfootball

[makfu]

well, to expand on that, it really goes to show you how unable Germans are to throw a car together when there is actually a budget to adhere to and a limit put on how much frickin ballast you can put in the car.

Well, I hope that was said in jest. The Germans, including GM’s excellent Adam Open, A.G. folks can certainly build a fine, low-cost, efficient price targeted automobile. The real problem is that Jürgen Schrempp’s American imperial outpost was run into the ground by Stuttgart’s incompetent bureaucratic management culture. A stifling culture that was entirely incompatible and highly hostile to Chrysler’s Lutz/Gale era management and development systems. It really is that simple.

Everyone with half a clue looked at this merger in 1998 and knew this train wreck was going to happen. Jürgen Schrempp is an egomaniacal ass who wanted to build an auto empire that would span the globe. The end result is a badly damaged Mercedes-Benz, a crippled Mitsubishi and an “operationally bankrupt” Chrysler.

As for rescuing the awful JS platform vehicles, Chrysler will need to do a lot more than interiors. Significant suspension tuning, NVH and exterior fit and finish work will need to be done to get these vehicles even remotely competitive. Sadly, for Chrysler’s product, all that work really wouldn’t address the most fundamental problem with the Sebring, which is its weird and incoherent styling.

Frankly, Bob Nardelli just needs to bite the bullet and bet the farm on a completely new, ground-up vehicle. Obviously though, it would have to be something so good that it would single handedly vault Chrysler back into the running, like the 93 LH cars. I don’t know if the Chrysler of today has the resources, or more importantly, the talent to produce such a car.

[regfootball]

all i know is an avenger passed me today. that car is so horrible to look at i just about yacked all over myself.

[Oracle of Delphi]

all i know is an avenger passed me today. that car is so horrible to look at i just about yacked all over myself.

Clarification, you did say yacked with a Y?

[Guest YellowJacket894]

Uh, the interiors in the Se-venger cars aren't the only things that need an emergency overhaul, Chrysler. Try the whole car, fellas.

I really liked the Avenger when it debuted. However, after the design has grew on me, I've realized it's actually just a decent car wanting to be a great one. Same for the Sebring, although I hate it oh so much more than it's goat-in-the-cross-hairs twin. It's just that the mean old Daimler Jekyl side in gentile old Mister Chrysler Hyde didn't let the two cars cook long enough before taking them out of the oven; they're two cars that started out as really great ideas and wound up as really bad products on the other side.

Cerebus needs to halt production on these two half-assed cars after the '10 model year and just start over with a shorted version of the new LY platform and start from there. Keep the same basic LX Charger-inspired styling formula for the Avenger while moving the design of the Charger away from that same formula and more towards that of the '99 concept car and classic Chargers. Then make the Sebring (tag it as Airflite instead of Sebring, by the way, Chrysler; you've done a lot of damage to the Sebring name with the current model) a scaled down NG 300 with cues from the letter cars not being used as inspiration for the NG 300, as well as other classic Chrysler models like the New Yorker. But that's just my opinion (same for, well, hundreds of other enthusiasts).

Edited December 31, 2007 by YellowJacket894

[caddycruiser]

I agree, it's the overall vehicles that need a THOROUGH re-check. Test and revise the suspensions. Note and fix any seating issues (was at least a "running change" issue with the Avenger). Fix/change any necessary interior details. Fix up the outsides a bit. Basically, refine everything you can to how it would be "best" and should have been all along.

If anything is an emergency in this regard...it's the worst EVER Chrysler/Dodge van interiors, the terrible Compass/Patriot/Caliber refinement and materials, and further small changes across the lines of other vehicles.

Basically, the Sebring & Avenger can use some help for sure...but they aren't the biggest red flags in Chrysler's line-up, or at least the only ones. There are many others just waiting to hit the proverbial fan moreso in due time.

[Duncan]

Uh, the interiors in the Se-venger cars aren't the only things that need an emergency overhaul, Chrysler. Try the whole car, fellas.

I really liked the Avenger when it debuted. However, after the design has grew on me, I've realized it's actually just a decent car wanting to be a great one. Same for the Sebring, although I hate it oh so much more than it's goat-in-the-cross-hairs twin. It's just that the mean old Daimler Jekyl side in gentile old Mister Chrysler Hyde didn't let the two cars cook long enough before taking them out of the oven; they're two cars that started out as really great ideas and wound up as really bad products on the other side.

Cerebus needs to halt production on these two half-assed cars after the '10 model year and just start over with a shorted version of the new LY platform and start from there. Keep the same basic LX Charger-inspired styling formula for the Avenger while moving the design of the Charger away from that same formula and more towards that of the '99 concept car and classic Chargers. Then make the Sebring (tag it as Airflite instead of Sebring, by the way, Chrysler; you've done a lot of damage to the Sebring name with the current model) a scaled down NG 300 with cues from the letter cars not being used as inspiration for the NG 300, as well as other classic Chrysler models like the New Yorker. But that's just my opinion (same for, well, hundreds of other enthusiasts).

With the new CAFE regs, the LX/LY platform is going to be too heavy to cut down to midsize dimensions. So I suspect we'll be looking at an evolution of the JS platform instead. This is fine, so long as they spend the money on the details rather than just being "new".

As of December, Chrysler was in the process of building their new Trenton Engine Plant for the all-new set of Phoenix V6 engines - these are reported to have high-end features like variable valve timing and direct injection, and should be on stream by the '10 model year (all this according to Allpar, which tends to be very reliable). A new 3.3 DOHC unit based on this architecture should replace the current 2.7 DOHC (thank God) and 3.5 SOHC either before or during the next model changeover.

All that being said, Reg's suggestion wasn't totally outlandish either - the current Galant is not that bad a car, and certainly one I'd choose over a Sebring. Put a waterfall grille and some chrome interior trim on it, and you might have something resembling a credible competitor.

[VenSeattle]

- the current Galant is not that bad a car, and certainly one I'd choose over a Sebring. Put a waterfall grille and some chrome interior trim on it, and you might have something resembling a credible competitor.

Sorry, but if those were the only two vehicles available to choose from, I'd rather gnaw my right arm off. + =

[regfootball]

to me, it's just that the galant with a crosshairs grille would be incredibly believable as a dodge (invitation for someone to chop that). new interior in that, and its a better entry than the avenger.

dodge and chrysler ought to retreat and refocus the avenger and sebring as 'large compacts'. sell them at prices not far off from typical compacts and equip most of them with fuel friendly 4 cylinders. keep them lightly optioned and watch them sell to folks who don't have a lot of money to spend and want good mpg of a compact, with more space. to try to pass these cars off as desirable midsizers is not believable.

speaking of 'outlandish', rebadge the outlander as a dodge too, while your at it. and the lancer would make a good dodge too.

dodge would be better off with all those rebadged mitsubishis for car, except for the charger and challenger obviously.

Edited January 3, 2008 by regfootball

[cire]

Although I think Chrysler seriously dropped the ball with the Avenger/Sebring twins, I don't believe slapping Dodge or Chrysler styling cues on a rebadged Mitsubishi Galant is a credible solution either. The current Galant is just as ugly and outdated as the current Chrysler LLC midsize sedan siblings. Why in the world would anyone want to continue the downward spiral by rebadging an inferior, subpar, ungainly Mitsubishi product? There are reasons (other than a lack of marketing) that the current Galant is a sales dud in the midsize sedan segment.

I think the Avenger could be salvaged to continue in the market as a sporty alternative product to mainstream midsizers if Chrysler LLC is seriously dedicated to fixing the following shortcomings:

1) Redesign the plastic craptastic interior with quality materials and controls.

2) Clean up and tweak exterior design and build quality.

3) Offer a choice of 6 speed manual or 6 speed automatic transmissions with both the 2.4 4-cylinder and 3.5 V6 engines. I would maybe consider discontinuing the 2.7 V6 engine option and definitely discontinue the 4 speed automatic transmission.

4) Retune the suspension to offer a good balance between comfort and sportiness (biased toward sportiness).

5) Add more sound deadening materials to ensure a quiet ride.

* I think these steps would be enough to improve the Avenger's performance in the market until a replacement/next generation product could be engineered/developed. It will take a lot more than just an interior makeover, but I believe it is a feasible proposition.

I think the Sebring is much more problematic than the Avenger. The Sebring sedan would require an extensive restyling of the exterior as well as the interior (and other changes mentioned above for the Avenger; except the suspension would be tuned more for comfort than sportiness in the Sebring) to begin to attempt to improve its market performance. I fear that a complete interior makeover won't be enough to help its situation.

[Duncan]

Note that the problem, overall, is that both the Avenger and Sebring need to be markedly better to survive. It's kind of sad, considering that DC had the engineering might of two trans-continental powerhouses (and an assist from Asia) and STILL came up with this: Half-baked styling, raspy fours, old sixes, and appalling attention to detail. How could they have gotten the LX cars so overwhelmingly right and then fumbled so badly on the second go-round?

All that said, the bigger point is this: If the combined wonder-twin powers of DaimlerChrysler gave us these abominations, what makes anyone think that the now-decimated "new" Chrysler Corporation is going to be able to put together the kind of comeback engineering effort these cars need?

I'm not exactly hopeful, to say the least. Which is why I say cut your losses, nuzzle up to Mitsubishi again, and rebadge the next Galant. At least until the situation improves or you merge with Ford, whichever comes first.

[regfootball]

Note that the problem, overall, is that both the Avenger and Sebring need to be markedly better to survive. It's kind of sad, considering that DC had the engineering might of two trans-continental powerhouses (and an assist from Asia) and STILL came up with this: Half-baked styling, raspy fours, old sixes, and appalling attention to detail. How could they have gotten the LX cars so overwhelmingly right and then fumbled so badly on the second go-round?

All that said, the bigger point is this: If the combined wonder-twin powers of DaimlerChrysler gave us these abominations, what makes anyone think that the now-decimated "new" Chrysler Corporation is going to be able to put together the kind of comeback engineering effort these cars need?

I'm not exactly hopeful, to say the least. Which is why I say cut your losses, nuzzle up to Mitsubishi again, and rebadge the next Galant. At least until the situation improves or you merge with Ford, whichever comes first.

as a ford fan, i would never want them to do anything with chrylser. i would prefer chrysler fold.

[Duncan]

as a ford fan, i would never want them to do anything with chrylser. i would prefer chrysler fold.

I would prefer that Chrysler wasn't being run by orangutans, personally.

[A Horse With No Name]

as a ford fan, i would never want them to do anything with chrylser. i would prefer chrysler fold.

I would agree.

Chris

[VenSeattle]

as a ford fan, i would never want them to do anything with chrylser. i would prefer chrysler fold.

As a GM fan and former Chrysler product owner (along with a Chrysler product currently in the family... ugh) I have to agree. I'd much rather Chrysler fold.

[Robert Hall]

as a ford fan, i would never want them to do anything with chrylser. i would prefer chrysler fold.

As a Ford and Jeep fan, I want to see both Ford and Chrysler survive and thrive, along with GM.

[red]

I don't think it's worth the investment. These cars are turds...they don't do a single thing right!

Why not put this investment to fast track the next-gen Cloud Cars...bring them up a year/invest in build quality etc.?

[Toyota.vs.GM]

As a Ford and Jeep fan, I want to see both Ford and Chrysler survive and thrive, along with GM.

I think that IF Cerberus is able to turnaround Chrysler,and Chrysler has a IPO,Chrysler will have billions of cash,they should buy Fiat or Peugeot-PSA with there cash.

Edited January 8, 2008 by Toyota.vs.GM

[VenSeattle]

I think that IF Cerberus is able to turnaround Chrysler,and Chrysler has a IPO,Chrysler will have billions of cash,they should buy Fiat or Peugeot-PSA with there cash.

:rotflmao:

[Newbiewar]

I don't think it's worth the investment. These cars are turds...they don't do a single thing right!

Why not put this investment to fast track the next-gen Cloud Cars...bring them up a year/invest in build quality etc.?

why doesnt cerberus just use chysler as a fleet whore to stop losses while they totally redesign all the models

[VenSeattle]

why doesnt cerberus just use chysler as a fleet whore to stop losses while they totally redesign all the models

Last time I checked fleet/consumer sales... they already were...

[CMG]

Last time I checked fleet/consumer sales... they already were...

Large corporations are DEMANDING reliable cars for fleets now, I think alot of corporations previously buying other brands are switching over.......

:AH-HA_wink:

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[VenSeattle]

Large corporations are DEMANDING reliable cars for fleets now, I think alot of corporations previously buying other brands are switching over.......

:AH-HA_wink:

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, that explains why Toyota's fleet sales are increasing... What about Chrysler's?

[FAPTurbo]

Well, that explains why Toyota's fleet sales are increasing... What about Chrysler's?

Ouch.

[Newbiewar]

i mean why stop production of the magnum and similar "canceled" vehicles, and fleet them?

[CMG]

Well, that explains why Toyota's fleet sales are increasing... What about Chrysler's?

Chrysler already OWNS the segment I thought!

According to you anyways....

haha

[CMG]

i mean why stop production of the magnum and similar "canceled" vehicles, and fleet them?

Hard to "fleet a canceled vehicle"

I know alot of Magnum V6 cars are fleeted in the Las Vegas area, they are everywhere.

The Magnum is the lowest production of the three LX platforms currently, and the upcoming Challenger is going to eat up space occupied by the Magnum. Dumb decision IMO, but the powers that be think it's financially responsible, and that's all that matters I guess.

[NeonLX]

I've been a Chrysler fan for many decades. We've driven exclusively Chrysler (and AMC) vehicles since I got rid of my '76 Chevy pickup in 1981. But the last few years have seemed like a rerun of the very unfortunate 1962 model year for Chrysler. Remember the bizarre styling and lack of full-sized cars in the Plymouth & Dodge lines in '62 (not to mention the virtual discontinuance of larger displacement engines except for special order)? That's what the past several years of Chrysler have seemed like to me; a repeat of 1962 over and over again. The chunky exterior styling of most of Chrysler's lineup hasn't impressed me and the interiors are downright nasty with their big blocks of molded plastic, especially the door panels. Consequently, we are back behind the wheel of a Chevy again (the new Caravan/T&C minivans really didn't cut it).

The Malibu Maxx ain't exactly a beauty queen but it has a great combo of interior space, comfort, drivability and performance.