Next GMT-360s

[Flybrian]

If things appear as they appeared, then no one will be complaining about the Trailblazer having a second-rate interior. And if the TB is anything to go by, there will be shock and awe at the Envoy

[ocnblu]

Very cryptic, Fly. Can you please clarify? Have you seen these vehicles somewhere? Are they still BOF, or are they... something else?

[Bimmer325]

The Trailblazer interior is out of this world. http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/AH-HA_wink.gif

[Flybrian]

Very cryptic, Fly.  Can you please clarify?  Have you seen these vehicles somewhere?  Are they still BOF, or are they... something else?

[post="29743"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

in RE to the interior, let's just say CHROMIUM_STEEL would be satisfied.

[AAS]

Is this an interior refresh we can expect for the current TB, or will the current TB be totally redone for '07, '08?

[ocnblu]

[email protected]. kthx! :)

[Derek77]

QUIT PLAYING!!!!!!! This thread is worthless without pics, or at least some more info!!!!!!!! This could decide if I'm going to buy something now, or wait until the next gen TB comes out. :angry: In the words of Eric Cartman, "I hate you guys."

[bobo]

The new 360's are supposed to be out about a year from now. I'm guessing you guys have seen some bootleg pics.

[GMTruckGuy74]

Being a leasee of a 2005 GMC Envoy, I'd say I'm definitely interested in seeing some pictures of the new GMT-360s! http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/AH-HA_wink.gif

[Guest Josh]

The same media preview that was available to well umm the media was something that was found many months ago. Obvious legal reasons keep it underwraps. But......to add what they said......the company is going to kick some serious ass later in the decade. Toyota has nothing on GM. Interior, exterior, or powertrain. GM has the very first dual hybrid system coming out in '07. Toyota runs a single mode version. Things will be interesting here on C&G in the next few months.

[mystik]

The same media preview that was available to well umm the media was something that was found many months ago.

Obvious legal reasons keep it underwraps. But......to add what they said......the company is going to kick some serious ass later in the decade.

Toyota has nothing on GM. Interior, exterior, or powertrain. GM has the very first dual hybrid system coming out in '07. Toyota runs a single mode version.

Things will be interesting here on C&G in the next few months.

[post="29831"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Music to my ears.

[4gm]

You people not sharing pictures, you're mean, really mean. You know what I mean? Edited October 17, 2005 by 4gm

[ToniCipriani]

I guess if we really want to see it, we might have to wait for Autolie's "exclusive shots". Let someone else do the (illegal) stuff, and we'll just watch the show.

[Cory Wolfe]

Or since Bimmer seems to have seen them, I could PM him... :D

[Croc]

the interior is pretty damn choice. its exactly the level of quality and design that chevrolet should have across its lineup.

[pow]

http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/AH-HA_wink.gif Just wait and see!
































(Actually, I have no idea what it looks like... :( ) Edited October 17, 2005 by empowah

[CadillacCTS]

Will the next generation Envoy and Trailblazer be at the 2006 Detroit show ?

[evok]

If things appear as they appeared, then no one will be complaining about the Trailblazer having a second-rate interior. And if the TB is anything to go by, there will be shock and awe at the Envoy

[post="29741"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Things change. Information gets old very fast in this business.

[evok]

The Trailblazer interior is out of this world.  http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/AH-HA_wink.gif

[post="29751"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

WYSIWYG NOT- Plans change. Edited October 17, 2005 by evok

[GMan]

So, this means it will be a standard cheap GM interior? Edited October 17, 2005 by GMan

[evok]

http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/AH-HA_wink.gif Just wait and see!
(Actually, I have no idea what it looks like... :( )

[post="29948"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Exactly!

[evok]

The Trailblazer interior is out of this world.  http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/AH-HA_wink.gif

[post="29751"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I would not talk about things you do not know about! At this point the future of these vehicles is under review. Edited October 17, 2005 by evok

[Cadillacfan]

From what Flybrian said, the new Trailblazer's interior doesn't sound very impressive. I think if it looks more like the new tahoe's interior rather then the current TB, it will be good enough for me. The current one is just awkward. I would know. My sister just bought one. One quick question for those who have seen the pics: How does it stack up in terms of interior design. Does the dash have an original shape? Edited October 17, 2005 by Cadillacfan85

[evok]

From what Flybrian said, the new Trailblazer's interior doesn't sound very impressive.  I think if it looks more like the new tahoe's interior rather then the current TB, it will be good enough for me.  The current one is just awkward.  I would know.  My sister just bought one.
One quick question for those who have seen the pics:  How does it stack up in terms of interior design.  Does the dash have an original shape?

[post="30057"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Don't you know how to read? GM is not going to invest a lot of resourses into a market that is seriously retrenching. Look at sales, the market is evolving. 3 bucks a gallon for gas is not going to sustain or maintain growth in the mid sized BOF suv market. Edited October 17, 2005 by evok

[Derek77]

From what Flybrian said, the new Trailblazer's interior doesn't sound very impressive.  I think if it looks more like the new tahoe's interior rather then the current TB, it will be good enough for me.  The current one is just awkward.  I would know.  My sister just bought one.
One quick question for those who have seen the pics:  How does it stack up in terms of interior design.  Does the dash have an original shape?

[post="30057"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I got the complete opposite from Evok. When can we expect to see legal pics of the next gen GMT-360?

[evok]

The same media preview that was available to well umm the media was something that was found many months ago.

Obvious legal reasons keep it underwraps. But......to add what they said......the company is going to kick some serious ass later in the decade.

Toyota has nothing on GM. Interior, exterior, or powertrain. GM has the very first dual hybrid system coming out in '07. Toyota runs a single mode version.

Things will be interesting here on C&G in the next few months.

[post="29831"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Information since the analyst preview has changed.

[cmattson]

Information since the analyst preview has changed.

I hope that doesn't translate into "The bean counters have descended upon the proposed new models. Every car now features genuine burlap-covered furnishings and wooden benches instead of traditional seats." Edited October 17, 2005 by cmattson

[evok]

I hope that doesn't translate into "The bean counters have descended upon the proposed new models.  Every car now features genuine burlap-covered furnishings and wooden benches instead of traditional seats."

[post="30082"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I am just pointing out that no one here knows the current direction of the 361 program. Whatever information/rumours that has been passed along is wrong and that the 361 program has changed since the analyst preview in July. Some people here are talking in absolutes. And that is wrong also. The information is bad and misleading.

[caddycruiser]

I remember reading about GM seriously considering whether dropping the longer model and then modifying the short one to be a 7-seater like the Explorer--wonder if that idea is just now a distant memory. Given that GM STILL, to this day, doesn't seem to have the best of ideas when it comes to rear suspension design and interior packaging on their ute's (like the new Tahoe's 3rd row that ONLY lifts out, due to the big straight axle underneath), I couldn't see a short TB/Envoy with a 3rd row being very nice. Either way, the current GMT-360's are very, very badly in need of a completely new and different interior, improved exterior fit & finish, and driving dynamics that aren't so soggy, floaty, and just "classic Cadillac" to drive. On the other hand, the new Explorer/Mountaineer are AWESOME trucks, whether or not you like Ford, and the driving experience alone is so much more refined and luxurious, that features like the easily folded flat and roomy 3rd row just push it that much farther ahead.

[97regalGS]

i'm guessing many future GMT-360 buyers will consider the new crossovers as more suitable for their needs. and while the 900's are important, i think the crossovers are critical in the new portfolio. i hope they didn't scrimp on them. guess we have to wait a few more months to see!

[ehaase]

GM is not going to invest a lot of resourses into a market that is seriously retrenching.  Look at sales, the market is evolving.  3 bucks a gallon for gas is not going to sustain or maintain growth in the mid sized BOF suv market.

[post="30062"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I would think that Ford also needs to seriously consider the future of the Explorer/Mountaineer. I would think that full size SUV's will still have some appeal for the wealthy and those that need them for business purposes and the Jeep Grand Cherokee will remain popular for those who go off-road, but crossovers make much more sense for families than truck based mid sized SUV's.

[91z4me]

I think what evok is saying is that the GMT360 program would overlap the Lambda crossovers and that since GM wants to stop competing with itself and start competing to others the Lambda crossovers will be the midsize mainstream models with the GMTs sticking around for a while and then dying.

[Croc]

I think that would be a mistake on GM's part. Keep TrailBlazer and Envoy. That's it. No Buick, no Pontiac, no SAAB. Just the two core SUVs. That's all they were before the Bravada debuted in the early 90s: Blazer and Jimmy. So GM should keep the TB and Envoy, give them good interiors (because every vehicle needs a good interior) and sell them.

[Cremazie]

I think that would be a mistake on GM's part.

Keep TrailBlazer and Envoy.  That's it.  No Buick, no Pontiac, no SAAB.  Just the two core SUVs.  That's all they were before the Bravada debuted in the early 90s: Blazer and Jimmy.  So GM should keep the TB and Envoy, give them good interiors (because every vehicle needs a good interior) and sell them.

[post="30173"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I agree completely, to go on, there is no room at GMC for a Lambda crossover, leave that to buick or pontiac, but not both! http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/AH-HA_wink.gif

[evok]

I think what evok is saying is that the GMT360 program would overlap the Lambda crossovers and that since GM wants to stop competing with itself and start competing to others the Lambda crossovers will be the midsize mainstream models with the GMTs sticking around for a while and then dying.

[post="30170"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I would not say the BOF market will go away but the days of GM selling 20 - 30k Trailblazers a month are over or soon will be over and that the lambda programs will in the near future replace the GMT360+ as the volume leader in the midsized suv segment. As a result, serious investment into the GMT-361 is not going to happen beyond a minor freshening. The midsized SUV market is more susceptible to the price of gas. And if gas continues to hoover around current level, it begins to hit people in the pocket book and people will begin to transition to vehicles with greater fuel economy first and a vehicle with comparable capabilites second. Lambda and theta are the future because they will have the fuel economy improvements and suv like features (ride height, awd and storage). Edited October 17, 2005 by evok

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

At this point the future of these vehicles is under review.

[post="30056"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

OF COURSE..

Because everytime GM threatens us with GREAT, high quality, segment leading product things ALWAYS come under review and ALWAYS get cancelled...

I for one will be PISSED if evok is forshadowing a cop out by GM and even more PISSED if we never get to see the original pics. (No I haven't seen them)

GM does not need to let GMT360 wither and die and GM does not need to b8tch out on GMT361 and lose share.

Toned down is okay I guess... Crappy and devoid of competitiveness is ridiculous and typical.

[Drew Dowdell]

I think Buick could have a Lamda Rendevous to compete with the RX. Saab/Saturn <whichever> could have a Lamda 9-6x to compete with the MDX. Chevy could have both a Lamda and a GMT-360.... after all, Toyota has the Highlander and the 4Runner. GMC could have just have the GMT-360 Cadillac can stick with Sigma and GMT-900 models. No SUVs,Crossovers,CSVs, for Pontiac.

[c5thunder]

Well if the design has changed then C&G should be opposed to posting 'What could have been' pics....right? Edited October 17, 2005 by c5thunder

[turbo200]

if you ask my humble opinion that's a ridiculous question. Yes, logically GM will have lots more to offer in that market segment with the Thetas and Lambdas, so I could see where they could start to remove the 360s. But, Trailblazer is a historically great-selling product, and I don't think it's a smart idea to call it a loser NOW when the car is still selling like 300k units.

[agman25]

Hi! Please don't ask me how I know this, I can't tell. Believe me if you want to. I know this for sure 1. The GMT 361 interiors are fantastic. 2. The entire GMT 361 program is under review at GM. The whole thing has a nice chance of being cancelled due to fall in SUV sales. GM is thinking of going with the GMT-900's and a car based SUV at the lower end.

[97regalGS]

if you ask my humble opinion that's a ridiculous question. Yes, logically GM will have lots more to offer in that market segment with the Thetas and Lambdas, so I could see where they could start to remove the 360s. But, Trailblazer is a historically great-selling product, and I don't think it's a smart idea to call it a loser NOW when the car is still selling like 300k units.

[post="30251"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

i don't think anyone is calling it a loser. however, there is no business case to invest millions into a program that at best will maintain volume and more than likely will decrease due to external influences ie, gas prices. beside most of those lost sales will go to the GM crossovers anyway.

muslce cars were 'historically great selling products' but you don't see many of them around now.

the times have changed. kudos to GM for not investing unnecessarily in a declining market. as i said before, let's hope they've done the right thing with the lambdas and haven't cut corners. if done right, they will pickup the slack from 360 sales and more importantly, HOPEFULLY draw in conquest sales.

[97regalGS]

Hi!
Please don't ask me how I know this, I can't tell. Believe me if you want to. I know this for sure
1. The GMT 361 interiors are fantastic.
2. The entire GMT 361 program is under review at GM. The whole thing has a nice chance of being cancelled due to fall in SUV sales. GM is thinking of going with the GMT-900's and a car based SUV at the lower end.

[post="30262"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

can't the 361 interior be fitted to the 360 as a mid-life refresh? that along with some new fenders etc would do fine. or is that all 361 was anyway?

[Cory Wolfe]

So.... since things have changed since these pics came out... It would be alright to post them, right? :D Doesn't sound good by what evok's telling us, though. I'm with FOG...

[Cadillacfan]

Don't you know how to read?  GM is not going to invest a lot of resourses into a market that is seriously retrenching.  Look at sales, the market is evolving.  3 bucks a gallon for gas is not going to sustain or maintain growth in the mid sized BOF suv market.

[post="30062"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

First of all, let me ask a couple of important questions: What the hell crawled up your ass? Did I say something way out-of-line to you that would make you resort to insulting me like a 5-year old? Grow up.

Staying on topic: I can read evok but all I'm reading are cryptic responses.
I have another question for you: Can you think logically?
The mid-size SUV segment is the future. The large SUV market may be waving bye bye but the mid-size SUV market has potential since they're not 20 ft long and require 50 gallon gas tanks. Get it what I'm saying?

Let me simplify it for you: Smaller truck = smaller engine = less used.

We clear? No? Let me continue to educate you:

Mid-size SUVs mostly use V6 engines( more fuel-efficient). The V8 engines in the GMT-360s (with the exception of the 9-7x and the EXTs) are optional while in the GMT-900s, they are standard.

GM needs to invest a lot of resources into the TB and Envoy because eventually, the Tahoe and Yukon aren't going to be the top sellers anymore.
Now, smaller is better for many car buyers in America.
Don't you think that would include smaller SUVs? I'll answer the question for you: Yes.. yes it does.

Who in their right mind at GM would avoid improving the GMT-360 twins and letting them stagnate when automakers like Toyota, Nissan, Ford, and Chrysler are bringing new and/or improved vehicles to the mid-size SUV segment? You'd have to be insane or really stupid to ignore that. Edited October 17, 2005 by Cadillacfan85

[Derek77]

if you ask my humble opinion that's a ridiculous question. Yes, logically GM will have lots more to offer in that market segment with the Thetas and Lambdas, so I could see where they could start to remove the 360s. But, Trailblazer is a historically great-selling product, and I don't think it's a smart idea to call it a loser NOW when the car is still selling like 300k units.

[post="30251"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

That's why letting the market decide what it wants is the best way to handle this. Give the GMT-360s a chance. Give them a face lift, and not the '06 face lift that they recieved. Maybe something with an "upgraded" interior and exterior, just on a budget. Let the people decide what to keep and what to get rid of.

[evok]

First of all, let me ask a couple of important questions: What the hell crawled up your ass?  Did I say something way out-of-line to you that would make you resort to insulting me like a 5-year old?  Grow up.

Staying on topic:  I can read evok but all I'm reading are cryptic responses.
I have another question for you:  Can you think logically?
The mid-size SUV segment is the future. The large SUV market may be waving bye bye but the mid-size SUV market has potential since they're not 20 ft long and require 50 gallon gas tanks.  Get it what I'm saying? 

Let me simplify it for you: Smaller truck = smaller engine = less used.

We clear?  No?  Let me continue to educate you:

Mid-size SUVs mostly use V6 engines( more fuel-efficient).  The V8 engines in the GMT-360s (with the exception of the 9-7x and the EXTs) are optional while in the GMT-900s, they are standard.

GM needs to invest a lot of resources into the TB and Envoy because eventually, the Tahoe and Yukon aren't going to be the top sellers anymore. 
Now, smaller is better for many car buyers in America. 
Don't you think that would include smaller SUVs?  I'll answer the question for you:  Yes.. yes it does.

Who in their right mind at GM would avoid improving the GMT-360 twins and letting them stagnate when automakers like Toyota, Nissan, Ford, and Chrysler are bringing new and/or improved vehicles to the mid-size SUV segment?  You'd have to be insane or really stupid to ignore that.

[post="30290"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I went back and reread your initial post and apologize for my reaction.

To answer the rest of your questions.

What the hell crawled up your ass? - Actually something did. A few on this board should know why. Obviously you won't know. But others do. And what crawled up it was partially directed at you and it should not have. As for the people that know, they should know why. Hate to be cryptic but as always I have to be.

As for your other question, I posted earlier as to what is going to happen to the mid sized BOF market. Different demographics for mid sized and full sized market.

In GM's case, market will shift to lambda vehicles over time.

[Derek77]

First of all, let me ask a couple of important questions: What the hell crawled up your ass?  Did I say something way out-of-line to you that would make you resort to insulting me like a 5-year old?  Grow up.

Staying on topic:  I can read evok but all I'm reading are cryptic responses.
I have another question for you:  Can you think logically?
The mid-size SUV segment is the future. The large SUV market may be waving bye bye but the mid-size SUV market has potential since they're not 20 ft long and require 50 gallon gas tanks.  Get it what I'm saying? 

Let me simplify it for you: Smaller truck = smaller engine = less used.

We clear?  No?  Let me continue to educate you:

Mid-size SUVs mostly use V6 engines( more fuel-efficient).  The V8 engines in the GMT-360s (with the exception of the 9-7x and the EXTs) are optional while in the GMT-900s, they are standard.

GM needs to invest a lot of resources into the TB and Envoy because eventually, the Tahoe and Yukon aren't going to be the top sellers anymore. 
Now, smaller is better for many car buyers in America. 
Don't you think that would include smaller SUVs?  I'll answer the question for you:  Yes.. yes it does.

Who in their right mind at GM would avoid improving the GMT-360 twins and letting them stagnate when automakers like Toyota, Nissan, Ford, and Chrysler are bringing new and/or improved vehicles to the mid-size SUV segment?  You'd have to be insane or really stupid to ignore that.

[post="30290"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

In defense of evok, he was telling us what was going on now with the program. To me, you just looked past what he posted and looked at the more rosier picture from Flybrian. But lets get past that.

The problem with the midsize suv market right now, gmt-360, explorers, and the like, they are starting to bleed over in to the large suv market now, offering much of the same as them. With the GMT-900 coming, the only thing that the mid-sizers offer is an expected price savings, but the 900 prices have not been released yet and they are expected to be lower in price. With 3 platforms to be roughly the same size; Theta, Lambda, 360 SWB; you have to ask one question, Why?

[turbo200]

hmmm... a TB, with the TB name and TB styling but as a Lambda?

[Trimnell1]

Like Turbo said, I think that maybe GM is seriously considering moving the TB to the Lambda platform and then cancelling the Envoy because the Acadia is already coming. That would be an interesting idea because I'm certain the Lambda SUVs can do what almost every single TB buyer wants it to do, and for those that really need to tow or haul heavy loads they can buy a GMT-900. The problem is do we need four Lambda SUVs on the market, differentiated as they may be? Or is GM going to give the GMT-360s new interiors, updated mechanicals, and a revised exterior like the Caddy DTS? We all know that the DTS isn't going to be around for a lot longer so GM didn't spend a ton of money revising it - maybe this way like the DTS, the TB and Envoy can last awhile longer and then fade away into the sunset.

[pow]

I'm in favor of basing the next TrailBlazer (call it whatever you want) on Lambda. While the current GMT-360s can tow well, it loses to unibody utes in categories like comfort, space, and weight, which are more important to 99% of prospective buyers.