So how much crap...

[Oracle of Delphi]

So essentially, we are saying the same thing (minus your personal vendetta against Holden).

What is Holden's is GM's, of course that's true.

Dumping the brand and abandoning the facilities makes no sense however.

I can always sell the facilities off.

[Camino LS6]

I can always sell the facilities off.

Or use them to build global product in that part of the world.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Or use them to build global product in that part of the world.

We will never agree on this, in the meantime Chevy Globalization marches on!

[Camino LS6]

We will never agree on this, in the meantime Chevy Globalization marches on!

Let's just hope that it doesn't march over a cliff out of arrogance.

[K.C.]

Lemmings Motors?

[Oracle of Delphi]

Lemmings Motors?

As you well know, lemmings blindly follow. I doubt I will ever be described as a Lemming.

1. You favor blindly bringing a car to market with a 6.0 liter engine, as gas prices continue to climb ever higher (3.29 today).

2. The exchange rate between the US and AUS dollar continue to work against importation of this car.

3. After the Gearheads get their fill who will buy it?

Who wants Lemming Motors now?

Oh on a side note the OPEC countries have now decided to cash in their American dollars. I wonder what that will do to the exchange rate between the US and AUS, just heard that on the news.

[Robert Hall]

As you well know, lemmings blindly follow. I doubt I will ever be described as a Lemming.

1. You favor blindly bringing a car to market with a 6.0 liter engine, as gas prices continue to climb ever higher (3.29 today).

It's a low volume halo car for the brand..better than the generic FWD rentals Pontiac has now...isn't Pontiac supposed to be about 'Excitement'? A RWD V8 sports sedan certainly provides that..

Edited November 19, 2007 by moltar

[BatmanGTO]

It's a low volume halo car for the brand..better the generic FWD rentals Pontiac has now...isn't Pontiac supposed to be about 'Excitement'? A RWD V8 sports sedan certainly provides that..

agreed...

excitement should be about a car that is above all others... foreign and domestic. the best bang for the buck, kitchen sink included. and as for the gas prices and all of that bs.... i was looking at 4 or 5 cars to be my next purchase as my current car.... subaru wrx, audi a4, pontiac gto and merc e500 or bmw 540i .... and guess what the gto gets better mileage with better power than any of them. i can vouch i get 29+ on the highway and 21 city.... none of the others could do that and ive driven them all. and they were all more expensive as well..... and if the G8 can do all of that as well and more in the market of sedans... more power to it.

[Camino LS6]

The G8 also offers a V6.

And Alpha will be smaller overall.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Well time will tell who is right and who is wrong about Zeta. I expect in a year to a year and a half we will all know the public perception (not talking enthusiast here) of what this car is. I think we all know what will happen to Pontiac should Holden strike out once again in North America. Pontiac can't afford to have a model sitting on dealer lots 1-2 model years after it first went on sale once again. I look forward to when it does go on sale, I will see the sales figures as soon as GM does, my charts and graphs await the data. I will track the sales data like a killer whale tracks a wounded seal, then in a year to year and a half we should all know if the public likes this car or not.

Until then, I will not speak much on Zeta. Chevy globalization is tops on my list these days anyway, that in itself, is a means to an end for me.

I wish you all peace and the beginning of a Happy Thanksgiving season!

[Camino LS6]

The same wishes to you PCS, I just wish you wouldn't damn the car before it even gets its shot.

I expect it to do fine. Not as well, perhaps, as it would in a less nasty environment, but much better than the GTO (which I still prefer) due to its wider appeal. A Ute or sportwagon will draw me in quickly, if approved.

I look forward to putting another Holden in the barn.

[K.C.]

If the G8 wagon is coming, I will skip the sedan and get one of those because it would be more efficient than my Av and carrying the family and the dogs, even if the wagon doesn't offer a 6 speed manual (which I hope it does). Australia has had a better track record of producing "traditional American style cars" for years. They did not dump rear wheel drive for front wheel drive and for years we traditional American car enthusiasts wanted the Commodore, Ute, Caprice to be sold here. Now that we're getting it, people are still unhappy for whatever reason. If this car is a success, and GM will evolve the model by investing in it after production. Large rear wheel drive cars are premium cars and will not be the bread and butter cars of the market, but with a loaded price of $32K - $33k, that is a hell of a lot less than those huge SUVs people were buying and a much more efficient, especially since most people who drove those big SUV's never used a fraction of the capability.

[Camino LS6]

If the G8 wagon is coming, I will skip the sedan and get one of those because it would be more efficient than my Av and carrying the family and the dogs, even if the wagon doesn't offer a 6 speed manual (which I hope it does). Australia has had a better track record of producing "traditional American style cars" for years. They did not dump rear wheel drive for front wheel drive and for years we traditional American car enthusiasts wanted the Commodore, Ute, Caprice to be sold here. Now that we're getting it, people are still unhappy for whatever reason. If this car is a success, and GM will evolve the model by investing in it after production. Large rear wheel drive cars are premium cars and will not be the bread and butter cars of the market, but with a loaded price of $32K - $33k, that is a hell of a lot less than those huge SUVs people were buying and a much more efficient, especially since most people who drove those big SUV's never used a fraction of the capability.

Yup, and with the price of diesel these days (up $1.70/gal. since I bought the '05 Silverado), it would be nice to park the truck when I don't really need it.

[K.C.]

I like having a truck around for the snow or for when I must carry a big load in the bed, but the times I need it for loads is not as often as it used to be since I sold my business. I plan on trading in the Av for an All Terrain Sierra with the 4.5 diesel once that engine arrives. I would like to add a third model for the majority of my transporting needs that is roomy with decent mileage. Adding the G8 Wagon to my fleet will offer great savings from driving my Av most of the time.

[Drew Dowdell]

1. You favor blindly bringing a car to market with a 6.0 liter engine, as gas prices continue to climb ever higher (3.29 today).

2.9 litre V6 diesel and 4.5 litre V8 diesel

I haven't heard the specs on the 4.5, but the 2.9 makes 255hp and 403 ft/lbs. of torque. It may not be exactly the recipe that Camino was hoping for, but I think he'd be quite content with a 4.5 litre diesel Ute stump ripper.

[Camino LS6]

2.9 litre V6 diesel and 4.5 litre V8 diesel

I haven't heard the specs on the 4.5, but the 2.9 makes 255hp and 403 ft/lbs. of torque. It may not be exactly the recipe that Camino was hoping for, but I think he'd be quite content with a 4.5 litre diesel Ute stump ripper.

Interesting recipe.

Two things:

-I'm pretty unhappy with the insane pricing of diesel vs. gas right now.

- I think I'll get my high -performance gas engine with a manual, but I may have to be quick to jump at the chance when I get it.

[Drew Dowdell]

I still would like to see some "performance" diesels, I think the 4.5 diesel in a Zeta would do quite nicely, and hey, if it gets 30mpg in a full size truck, imagine how it will do in a lighter more aerodynamic Zeta.

[Camino LS6]

I still would like to see some "performance" diesels, I think the 4.5 diesel in a Zeta would do quite nicely, and hey, if it gets 30mpg in a full size truck, imagine how it will do in a lighter more aerodynamic Zeta.

No disagreement there, but diesel prices make it a harder sell.

[SuperSport623]

diesel is about 20-30 cents higher then regular fuel around here

if i got a diesel id probably do the not so legal thing and run home heating oil through it... i dont know if new diesel cars can stand up it

[Drew Dowdell]

why all the concern about price per gallon?..... think about it in terms of price per mile.

In terms of a Tahoe, the highway mileage is 21mpg. At $3.29 per gallon you're talking 15.6 cents per mile

if the Tahoe's highway mileage was 30mpg, at $3.49 per gallon you're talking 11.6 cents per mile.

After 15,000 miles you've used 605 gallons less fuel and saved $1,641 dollars assuming the price difference remains the same.

If selecting the diesel over the gasoline engine costs $2,000*, once you pass 18,276 miles, you've paid off the price difference.

*amount based on my observations of VW and MB diesels.

[Camino LS6]

Hard to say what the difference in a car like these would be, but around here regular fuel is under $3.20/gal. and Diesel is up to 3.70/gal.

My advantage vs. my 01 6.0 Silverado is fast evaporating.

When I bought the 05 Duramax diesel was only 1.99/gal.

Someone is getting very rich on diesel right now.

[Drew Dowdell]

doesn't diesel always fluctuate opposite gasoline? High in the winter, low in the summer because it is also used as heating fuel.

[Camino LS6]

doesn't diesel always fluctuate opposite gasoline? High in the winter, low in the summer because it is also used as heating fuel.

Not really, it was very consistent until the advent of "clean diesel" gave the oil companies an excuse to raise the price to the moon.