SPY SHOTS! 2010 Cadillac BRX

[smk4565]

It isn't a big stretch to compare Cadillac to Lincoln, look where Cadillac's lineup is going. Cadillac just executes it better, because the Fords are inferior to GM's platforms.

Escalade is a dressed up Tahoe like the Navigator is a dressed up Expedition.

When the DTS/STS die and get replaced, it will be on a dressed up Impala platform, (like the town car/Crown Vic now)

BRX and MKX are the same, 5 seater, $35k SUV based on a $25k suv.

The difference is the CTS is rear drive, while the MKZ is front, and the MKS will be all wheel. However, the BTS and MKZ should be about the same price, and CTS and MKS will overlap in price, if the CTS goes up in price.

The XLR sells under 2000 a year, that is almost a non factor. And Cadillac's only exclusive platform is dying, so they can base everything on a Chevy/Pontiac platform, like Lincoln killed the LS to base everything off a Ford global platform.

Where in Cadillac's future product plans are a midsize sedan with a base of $50,000 (E-class, Jaguar XF style car) or a large sedan with a base price of $85,000 that ranges to $130,000? Where is the twin turbo V6, twin turbo V8, all aluminum chassis, 8 speed automatic, car that parks itself, etc. Cadillac used to be an innovator and led in technology for years. Now they are a follower, the CTS has 2 way lumbar support (my 01 Aurora has 4-way), Mercedes has 20 way messaging front seats. Where is the hybird/diesel? Mercedes is going to have an S300 diesel hybrid that gets 40 mpg, more than an Aveo, and from a huge car. Cadillac is lucky to get 20 mpg. The BMW 535d gets 34 mpg right now in Europe. What ever happened to Cadillac wanting to be the best in the world?

[eldiablobanshee]

It isn't a big stretch to compare Cadillac to Lincoln, look where Cadillac's lineup is going. Cadillac just executes it better, because the Fords are inferior to GM's platforms.

Escalade is a dressed up Tahoe like the Navigator is a dressed up Expedition.

When the DTS/STS die and get replaced, it will be on a dressed up Impala platform, (like the town car/Crown Vic now)

BRX and MKX are the same, 5 seater, $35k SUV based on a $25k suv.

The difference is the CTS is rear drive, while the MKZ is front, and the MKS will be all wheel. However, the BTS and MKZ should be about the same price, and CTS and MKS will overlap in price, if the CTS goes up in price.

The XLR sells under 2000 a year, that is almost a non factor. And Cadillac's only exclusive platform is dying, so they can base everything on a Chevy/Pontiac platform, like Lincoln killed the LS to base everything off a Ford global platform.

Where in Cadillac's future product plans are a midsize sedan with a base of $50,000 (E-class, Jaguar XF style car) or a large sedan with a base price of $85,000 that ranges to $130,000? Where is the twin turbo V6, twin turbo V8, all aluminum chassis, 8 speed automatic, car that parks itself, etc. Cadillac used to be an innovator and led in technology for years. Now they are a follower, the CTS has 2 way lumbar support (my 01 Aurora has 4-way), Mercedes has 20 way messaging front seats. Where is the hybird/diesel? Mercedes is going to have an S300 diesel hybrid that gets 40 mpg, more than an Aveo, and from a huge car. Cadillac is lucky to get 20 mpg. The BMW 535d gets 34 mpg right now in Europe. What ever happened to Cadillac wanting to be the best in the world?

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

[Drew Dowdell]

It isn't a big stretch to compare Cadillac to Lincoln, look where Cadillac's lineup is going. Cadillac just executes it better, because the Fords are inferior to GM's platforms.

Escalade is a dressed up Tahoe like the Navigator is a dressed up Expedition.

When the DTS/STS die and get replaced, it will be on a dressed up Impala platform, (like the town car/Crown Vic now)

BRX and MKX are the same, 5 seater, $35k SUV based on a $25k suv.

A3 based on Rabbit

A4 based on Passat

A8 based on Phaeton

Q....whatever based on Tourege

RX based on Higlander

ES based on Camry

GX based on Sequioa

LX based on Land Cruiser

QX56 based on Armada

TL based on Accord

TSX based on Euro-spec Accord

RSX based on Civic

MDX based on Pilot/Odyssey

RDX based on CRV

Who is Cadillac looking like again!?

[silverss/sc]

Cadillac is becoming more and more like Lincoln every day.

That is THEE most ignorant statement Ive heard all year , lol If Cadillac ever wants to acheive respected world status it wants , it will have to be a MUCH more versitle brand . BMW , Merc , Audi ect all have entry level cars starting in the 30's , dont see their reps or brand equity hurting too much do you .

If they build this CUV right , it will be an asset to the brand , jmo :shrugs:

[Robert Hall]

It isn't a big stretch to compare Cadillac to Lincoln, look where Cadillac's lineup is going. Cadillac just executes it better, because the Fords are inferior to GM's platforms.

Where in Cadillac's future product plans are a midsize sedan with a base of $50,000 (E-class, Jaguar XF style car) or a large sedan with a base price of $85,000 that ranges to $130,000? Where is the twin turbo V6, twin turbo V8, all aluminum chassis, 8 speed automatic, car that parks itself, etc. Cadillac used to be an innovator and led in technology for years. Now they are a follower, the CTS has 2 way lumbar support (my 01 Aurora has 4-way), Mercedes has 20 way messaging front seats. Where is the hybird/diesel? Mercedes is going to have an S300 diesel hybrid that gets 40 mpg, more than an Aveo, and from a huge car. Cadillac is lucky to get 20 mpg. The BMW 535d gets 34 mpg right now in Europe.

What ever happened to Cadillac wanting to be the best in the world?

'Best in the World' is just marketing hype...'Best in Detroit' would be a more realistic goal for now..

[smk4565]

RX based on Higlander

ES based on Camry

GX based on Sequioa

LX based on Land Cruiser

QX56 based on Armada

TL based on Accord

TSX based on Euro-spec Accord

RSX based on Civic

MDX based on Pilot/Odyssey

RDX based on CRV

Who is Cadillac looking like again!?

These are mostly SUVs (the RSX was canned a couple years ago), it is easier to get away with dressing up an SUV, but notice only the Armada and LX470 really top $50,000 on that list. Those are all entry level luxury cars, Acura's whole brand is entry level luxury, aside form the 5000 RL's they sell. Cadillac by doing BTS, BRX, CTS, is making themselves into an entry level brand.

The SRX V8 could go head to head with a Porsche Cayenne, and actually beat it in Car and Driver. They are aiming low to try to go after Acura, Lincoln, Infiniti, rather than go after the high end cars.

1-series based on 98-05 3-series chassis

3-series/X3, based on exclusive platform

5 and 6-series/X5 based on exclusive platform

7-series, based on exclusive platform (future to share parts with $325k Rolls Royce Phantom)

C-class, on exclusive platform

E-class/CLS, exclusive platform

S-class, platform shared with $350k Maybach

[Drew Dowdell]

These are mostly SUVs (the RSX was canned a couple years ago), it is easier to get away with dressing up an SUV, but notice only the Armada and LX470 really top $50,000 on that list. Those are all entry level luxury cars, Acura's whole brand is entry level luxury, aside form the 5000 RL's they sell. Cadillac by doing BTS, BRX, CTS, is making themselves into an entry level brand.

The SRX V8 could go head to head with a Porsche Cayenne, and actually beat it in Car and Driver. They are aiming low to try to go after Acura, Lincoln, Infiniti, rather than go after the high end cars.

1-series based on 98-05 3-series chassis

3-series/X3, based on exclusive platform

5 and 6-series/X5 based on exclusive platform

7-series, based on exclusive platform (future to share parts with $325k Rolls Royce Phantom)

C-class, on exclusive platform

E-class/CLS, exclusive platform

S-class, platform shared with $350k Maybach

MB and BMW don't have anything lower to share with..... I know... Mini could come out with the MiniCooper-L based on the 7-Series chassis.

and two questions, how is the CTS making Cadillac an entry level brand but the 1-series, C-Class and the former C-class coupe, the proposed B-class NOT making MB and BMW into entry lux?

[smk4565]

That is THEE most ignorant statement Ive heard all year , lol If Cadillac ever wants to acheive respected world status it wants , it will have to be a MUCH more versitle brand . BMW , Merc , Audi ect all have entry level cars starting in the 30's , dont see their reps or brand equity hurting too much do you .

If they build this CUV right , it will be an asset to the brand , jmo :shrugs:

BMW and MB make entry level, but they also have many high level cars, and many years of solid reputation. Their lineups have more models above $50,000 than below. Mercedes has the S, SL, CL classes which can easily go over $100,000 ($144,000 for an S65 AMG). That builds the image, even if they do overprice stuff.

Cadillac is about to have 3 models under $35,000, and a DTS replacement at $45,000, and only the Escalade and XLR at the high end.

They can't do this CUV right, it has a transverse mounted engine, and will be obese unless TE is an all aluminum chassis.

[smk4565]

MB and BMW don't have anything lower to share with..... I know... Mini could come out with the MiniCooper-L based on the 7-Series chassis.

and two questions, how is the CTS making Cadillac an entry level brand but the 1-series, C-Class and the former C-class coupe, the proposed B-class NOT making MB and BMW into entry lux?

The CTS doesn't make Cadillac an entry level brand, but a BTS and BRX at lower price would. The CTS is also kind of Cadillac's flagship right now since the STS and DTS are so bad. Cadillac just needs more above the CTS, but they are concentrating below it.

The 135i has 300 hp and 0-60 in 5 seconds or maybe less, I agree that is is kind of cheap looking for a BMW, but it will be a performance machine. The C-hatchback coupe was a joke, that did hurt their image, that is why they dumped it. Mercedes just has a strong image that can overcome a Cimarron-like blow.

[Z-06]

Just so you'll quit yappin about the weight, I'm going to link back to this post every time you call the CTS fat.

A6 Curb Weight - Automatic (lb.) 3858 4034 tiptronic

535 Curb Weight - Automatic (lb.) 3703

CTS Curb Weight - Automatic (lb.) 3872

E-Class Curb Weight - Automatic (lb.) 3740

M35 Curb Weight - Automatic (lb.) 3880

GS 350 Curb Weight - Automatic (lb.) 3704

Acura RL Curb Weight - Automatic (lb.) 4014

300 3.5 Curb Weight - Automatic (lb.) 3766

Lincn LS Curb Weight - Automatic (lb.) 3772

As to that, the reason why GM vehicles in general are heavy, I quizzed it to none other than Jim Taylor at the South Florida Auto Show.

He said that GM does not use high strength aluminum and steel to keep the weight down like the Germans do, thus the weight gain.

This is concurrent to what I posted earlier.

Cadillac's Weight

And regarding the CTS, he says it is a 5-series "sized" car and features priced at 3-series sized car. But he did not divulge if it will have a bread and butter V-8 standard on it like the 550i.

FWD Caddy...

Yeah, at least they should make the BRX full time AWD like the Acuras. I understand having a common platform for all the vehicles. But I think it is a step backward for Caddy.

[G. David Felt]

Cadillac is f@#king up! Isn't the Theta's FWD? I couldn't imagine the Theta's and Fwd as premium luxury. What is this supposed to compete with...the X3 or X5? I don't think this stand a chance. And the name BRX is horrible. The SRX was a fine vehicle, I say just update and redesign(lose the wagon mini van look) to compete more with the X5 or Range Rover..thats where the bucks at.

Wrong place to compete in the X5 or Range Rover. The SRX is a competition to the R350 and R500 from Mercedes. Update the outside to mirror the new CTS Line and keep the SRX going. The Escalade can Compete against the Range Rover and X5 and use a all wheel drive BRX to compete against the X3 and LR3.

[Drew Dowdell]

And regarding the CTS, he says it is a 5-series "sized" car and features priced at 3-series sized car. But he did not divulge if it will have a bread and butter V-8 standard on it like the 550i.

Why would you? Next step up from the V6 is the CTS-V... and this time it will have an automatic available.

[Z-06]

Why would you? Next step up from the V6 is the CTS-V... and this time it will have an automatic available.

Why would you not have a V-8 under the CTS-V?

[dado]

And regarding the CTS, he says it is a 5-series "sized" car and features priced at 3-series sized car. But he did not divulge if it will have a bread and butter V-8 standard on it like the 550i.

According to rumors new v8 Ultra DOHC engine will be available later in cts below cts-v

[Drew Dowdell]

Why would you not have a V-8 under the CTS-V?

I would, but there isn't much of a jump from top end CTS to bottom end CTS-V. The V8 would need to overlap each vehicle at least a little bit.

I have my doubts a Northstar would fit.

[Z-06]

I would, but there isn't much of a jump from top end CTS to bottom end CTS-V. The V8 would need to overlap each vehicle at least a little bit.

I have my doubts a Northstar would fit.

A detuned LS3 or a regular LS2 with 400-410 hp will be just fine IMO. Yeah I doubt about the N* too. Unless like Dado said if it is the Ultra V8.

[dado]

A detuned LS3 or a regular LS2 with 400-410 hp will be just fine IMO. Yeah I doubt about the N* too. Unless like Dado said if it is the Ultra V8.

If we can believe rumors Ultra V8 (or northstar II) is smaller (outside dimension) than present northstar.But also cadillac cts won't get that engine until MCE in 2010.

And some rumors are even suggesting that then it will also go in MCE of CTS-V(with some sort of forced induction)

[Drew Dowdell]

A detuned LS3 or a regular LS2 with 400-410 hp will be just fine IMO.

Wouldn't that just be the previous generation CTS-V powertrain?

[regfootball]

GM ford etc don't use as much lighter high strength steel and aluminum because of cost. union contracts, ya know.

[Z-06]

Wouldn't that just be the previous generation CTS-V powertrain?

Well the same argument as the E55 AMG N/A had less power than the E550 now. The market has moved forward.

[pow]

A detuned LS3 or a regular LS2 with 400-410 hp will be just fine IMO. Yeah I doubt about the N* too. Unless like Dado said if it is the Ultra V8.

I'd say wait for the next generation, when we'll see an increase in price/equipment *and* the availability of the BTS.

[smk4565]

Wrong place to compete in the X5 or Range Rover. The SRX is a competition to the R350 and R500 from Mercedes. Update the outside to mirror the new CTS Line and keep the SRX going. The Escalade can Compete against the Range Rover and X5 and use a all wheel drive BRX to compete against the X3 and LR3.

The Escalade is too big to compete with anything from Europe.

The SRX (with a better look, and updated engines) is the perfect vehicle to compete with the X5 and Cayenne, and M-class. Even this year Car and Driver said the SRX was better than the BMW and Mercedes, and Volvo and VW.

The LR3 has a 300 hp V8 and is near $50,000 and is a serious off roader as well. I don't think the BRX front drive, car based ute is going to be fording 22 inches of water, or climbing any sand dunes.

[smk4565]

GM ford etc don't use as much lighter high strength steel and aluminum because of cost. union contracts, ya know.

They need to overcome that hurdle. Consumers don't care about GM's and Ford's labor cost problems, they want a good car. When GM/Ford cheap out $2000 on materials and features but Honda doesn't, people go buy Hondas, because the car is better. People are not going to buy a domestic that is inferior because they feel sorry for GM/Ford that their labor cost is high, so GM/Ford can't use it as an excuse as to why their cars are not as good. They can use it as an excuse as to why their profit margin is lower, but that's it.

[Z-06]

They need to overcome that hurdle. Consumers don't care about GM's and Ford's labor cost problems, they want a good car. When GM/Ford cheap out $2000 on materials and features but Honda doesn't, people go buy Hondas, because the car is better. People are not going to buy a domestic that is inferior because they feel sorry for GM/Ford that their labor cost is high, so GM/Ford can't use it as an excuse as to why their cars are not as good. They can use it as an excuse as to why their profit margin is lower, but that's it.

Read my post in the edmund's CTS comparo topic. Putting low strength material to produce stiffness and strength equivalent to higher strength materials DOES NOT make the car inferior. It only makes vehicles heavier. For putting those high performance steel and aluminum, there are these hurdles to overcome.

1. Body shells are the most material exhaustive parts of a vehicle, and that is where significant cost of material is involved.

2. Putting aluminum and high strenght steel will involve retooling of the manufacturing and assembly plants, to make this happen as if GM and Ford are sitting on tonnes of stash now.

3. Sometimes gains achieved by decreasing the weight are far offset by the price of the material, which is not cheap.

4. Look at the raw material costs of metal and tell me if it is a good idea for spending that much and yet keeping the costs down for these vehicles. Honda has not put weight saving materials in the Accord either that is why you see the 300lb increase in the weight of their recent iteration of Accord. The only problem is that somehow GM is builing relatively heavy vehicle, except for the GMT 900s.

[ZL-1]

The CTS doesn't make Cadillac an entry level brand, but a BTS and BRX at lower price would. The CTS is also kind of Cadillac's flagship right now since the STS and DTS are so bad. Cadillac just needs more above the CTS, but they are concentrating below it.

Because the CTS MCE will push it upmarket making room for a BTS or whatever it's called? There's a chance GM will take that chance, isn't there? Edited November 14, 2007 by ZL-1

[Z-06]

The CTS doesn't make Cadillac an entry level brand, but a BTS and BRX at lower price would. The CTS is also kind of Cadillac's flagship right now since the STS and DTS are so bad. Cadillac just needs more above the CTS, but they are concentrating below it.

Until Fly does the writeup of our visit at Miami Autoshow, I will not divulge about the future products plan. But rest assure something is coming on top of the CTS.

[sciguy_0504]

Doesn't look as "sharp" and "hard" as other recent Caddy designs. I know it's wrapped but it looks slightly melted.

[silverss/sc]

According to rumors new v8 Ultra DOHC engine will be available later in cts below cts-v

And a amazingly wise move that would be . Theres quite a performace gap between the DI 3.6 and the LSA .

[Drew Dowdell]

The Escalade is too big to compete with anything from Europe.

The SRX (with a better look, and updated engines) is the perfect vehicle to compete with the X5 and Cayenne, and M-class. Even this year Car and Driver said the SRX was better than the BMW and Mercedes, and Volvo and VW.

The LR3 has a 300 hp V8 and is near $50,000 and is a serious off roader as well. I don't think the BRX front drive, car based ute is going to be fording 22 inches of water, or climbing any sand dunes.

uh... how many non LR/Jeep/Hummer/Land Cruiser SUVs would be fording 22inches of water or climbing sand dunes?

[Drew Dowdell]

They need to overcome that hurdle. Consumers don't care about GM's and Ford's labor cost problems, they want a good car. When GM/Ford cheap out $2000 on materials and features but Honda doesn't, people go buy Hondas, because the car is better. People are not going to buy a domestic that is inferior because they feel sorry for GM/Ford that their labor cost is high, so GM/Ford can't use it as an excuse as to why their cars are not as good. They can use it as an excuse as to why their profit margin is lower, but that's it.

slamming the door on a civic or corolla also feels like a coke can....

[G. David Felt]

We all agree that Cadillac is at least trying and changing / shaking things up to make the product line better and compete. Better than many other vehicle lines out there. At least you have diversity compared to the boring Honda Acura Line or Lexus, Infinity, etc. Point is we can all beat to hell Caddy or we can at least recognize that they are trying to fill various levels in the luxury line and grow.

I would say positive feedback to GM on their current and future products so they can hopefully listen and make the right choices.

Course lately, I have wondered if they are listening to those of us that like our Luxury cadillacs but with out all the bling crap.

I woul love a new ESV Platinum but the only places I want Chrom are as follows: Grill, Rims, Door Handles and Roof Rack. Drop the body line chrome pieces that ding up, drop it from the rear view mirrors and especially drop the ugly chrome Brick on the back door.

Best yet, go to an Auto Flip up Rear glass with Auto open Mini Stage coach doors. That would be far better than the Huge Grand Canyon auto up door it had now.

[ZL-1]

But rest assure something is coming on top of the CTS.

That didn't read right to this poor consultant's eyes

[scharmer05]

Best yet, go to an Auto Flip up Rear glass with Auto open Mini Stage coach doors. That would be far better than the Huge Grand Canyon auto up door it had now.

Why? I can remember twice when I haven't been able to open the back of my Suburban because the door was too big. That was only because I didn't have it parked so that I could. I would much rather have one big door with the option of just opening the glass, than have to open up 3 different doors to fully access the back. In the Escalade it is all automated, so who cares how big the door is. It swings up and and is completely out of the way, no barn doors to get around.

As far as the BRX. I'm sure they will sell. AWD the is RWD biased would be best if you ask me. I prefer RWD in pickups and SUVs though. Most woman (most of the BRX buyers most likely) could probably care less what wheels are driving the car. I'm sure it will look good and I'm sure it will sell. I just hope they keep the SRX in the end and make it a little more SUV like. I am not a big fan of wagon looks, so that may just be me.

[regfootball]

slamming the door on a civic or corolla also feels like a coke can....

new accords doors feel pretty thin and flimsy too

[nferr]

I think the BRX could sell well as it should target the RX350 crowd. Make it real luxurious, decent handling for the soccer mom crowd, and price it right. They should make AWD and the 3.6 standard. It's the type of car my wife would definitely like (she drives a BMW X3 now). I think if it's done right it will sell substantially more than the SRX.

However I think they should update the SRX also, make it look less like a wagon (that's why it's not selling) and target the BMW X5 market too.

[91z4me]

I am expecting this thing to come w/ a DI 2.0 Turbo Ecotec for some reason. I thought I read that would be the base powertrain some time ago. I do expect the 3.6 for NA sales and a 2.8 HF for European sales. Also probably a 4 cylinder turbo diesel variant down the road.

[Northstar]

I am expecting this thing to come w/ a DI 2.0 Turbo Ecotec for some reason. I thought I read that would be the base powertrain some time ago. I do expect the 3.6 for NA sales and a 2.8 HF for European sales. Also probably a 4 cylinder turbo diesel variant down the road.

The 9-4x and BRX will have 2.0L diesels. I'm not sure what the base engine is, I know what the code for it is and it's not a current engine.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Agreed. It looks quite tall and narrow, and the wheels are rather small.

That description sounds like an Aztek!

[ocnblu]

It's too early to be heaping such criticism on this vehicle. I look at the new CTS as the second rebirth of sexy, attractive Cadillac styling, and I expect every subsequent Cadillac to build on that, including this small crossover.

The front end covers on these prototypes can give hints to design, though, with the cutouts for lights and cooling. The headlight cutouts appear to suggest a more horizontally-configured headlight, as opposed to Cadillac's current, stacked theme.

[Chris_Doane]

Also not the BRX. :AH-HA_wink: