Things that make you shake your head

[knightfan26917]

I washed/waxed/cleaned the '87 MC LS this past Saturday ... but, didn't get the older 4 MCs out yet. On Sunday, I was feeling too many muscles that I had forgotten to muster the energy and patience to get the older ones out. Ah, well ... perhaps this coming weekend .

Anyway ... I went for a short drive in the '87 MC LS Sunday afternoon ... after having lunch and spending some time with my sis and bro-in-law. On the way home, I stopped at a gas station to fill 'er up. As I was doing so, a guy parked next to me at another pump was shaking his head, looking at my car. So, I asked him if something was wrong.... He said something about how "you guys don't seem to get it" ... that driving such "gas guzzlers" are ruining so many things.

I asked him if he knew what my gas mileage was. He said, "Well, I had a '71 MC SS 454 and that only got about 9 or 10 miles per gallon, so I'd say you are getting 10-11 miles per gallon, which is absolutely sickening to me."

My reply: "Well, that might be sickening to you, but it is not what I'm getting. I have regularly managed about 18 miles per gallon."

A guy on the other side, next to me, driving a newer Ford Mustang, looked over and noted, "I don't even get that much..."

The one who was questioning my gas mileage didn't pay any attention to the Mustang driver, but persisted: "Oh, come on now. No way you are getting that good of gas mileage. My wife's Honda Odyssey gets about 18 mpg...."

So, I said, "OK, fine. I'll finish filling up and run the calculations". After I filled it up, I reached in for my gas log book, noted the gallons and the mileage (showed the guy BOTH of them) ... and ran the calculation. The MPG? 18.56. I looked at the guy and queried: "So, what type of gas mileage are you getting on your new Toyota Tundra?"

Yes, true story. He had just bought his Toyota last week ... and his perception was that anything new gets better mpg than anything old. Unfreekingbelievable.

I'll take my older "gas guzzler" with NO car payment, thank you.

Heh ... in other "you're kidding, right?" news ... as of Sunday night, June 10, the Chicago Cubs were 27-34, within 6 games of first place. The Chicago White Sox were 27-32, 9 games out of first place. Yet, based on the sports reports ... you'd think the White Sox were only a game out. Hmmm....

Cort:33swm."Mr Monte Carlo.Mr Road Trip".pig valve.pacemaker

PICS:lego.HO.model.MCinfo.RT.CHD = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort

"This is not where you belong" ... Restless Heart ... 'Why Does It Have To Be (Wrong or Right)?'

[regfootball]

i seriously would have beat the crap out of that c-sker for berating you and I might have even keyed his turd for being a pompous ass.

did you aks him if he enjoys sending money to japan and if he enjoys shredded camshafts and piss poor crash test ratings?

Edited June 11, 2007 by regfootball

[Flybrian]

Not too long ago, some guy driving one of these things that Shrek puked on...

...took it upon himself to lean over and look at my pump readout, saw my 19 gallon/$60.00 fullup, and said, "Does it feel good driving something that uses so much gas? Its such a waste."

I asked him if he just took a $h! on his car or did he buy it like that.

[Intrepidation]

Not too long ago, some guy driving one of these things that Shrek puked on...

...took it upon himself to lean over and look at my pump readout, saw my 19 gallon/$60.00 fullup, and said, "Does it feel good driving something that uses so much gas? Its such a waste."

I asked him if he just took a $h! on his car or did he buy it like that.

LOL!!!

Hey knightfan, you should have asked him why he bought a less fuel efficient truck, and if he's so concerned about fuel economy why he is driving that big ugly $h!brick in the first place. Then tell him you hope the camshaft explodes and flies through his head.

I have not had the pleasure of meetings someone like that yet.

[ZL-1]

Not too long ago, some guy driving one of these things that Shrek puked on...

So that's why it's green!

[ocnblu]

Ugh, dude is a pathetic assbandit.

[the_yellow_dart]

There is a condo here in Toronto that has a giant boulder stuck in the cement between the building itself and the sidewalk. It's probably about 30 feet long by 20 feet wide, and about 8 feet tall. I have ridden my bike there a few times. I wait until there are no people on top, and ride up and down the sides (it's kind of difficult but I do it slowly so as to not endanger anyone walking).

There was a fat guy sitting there in a chair near the rock when I was doing this one day. He yells at me that it's illegal to ride a bike on the sidewalk. First of all, that's not true, second of all, I'm not technically even on the sidewalk. I told him that I would be dead if I didn't ride on the sidewalk sometimes in Toronto, and he then told me "You need your head examined". This pissed me off pretty good, so I told him, "Just because you're a fat slob and want to enjoy the park by sitting here, doesn't give you the right to bitch at those who want to enjoy the park by being active", then politely requested that he choke on his next burger and fries.

[Z-06]

Yeah, I had the same problem, when I was filling my "Gas Guzzling" Corvette (According to a MILF driving a 4-Runner). She asked me, does not hurt to fill the gas in it?

I told her that I got 23 mpg in the city, and my average on highways is often 29-30 mpg. She is said with a red face, "man that is how much our Crapry gives."

I asked her yeah it has about 55% of my engine size and 60% of my power (I was assuming a V-6) and same gas mileage?? Doesn't sound right does it? And then came the corker, I asked her how much does your Gas-hog (4-Runner) give? She said I am lucky if I get 17 mpg on highway. She did not talk to me later.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Pretty sad that americans are so f**king ignorant these days.

I know what will happen if someone sneers or comments at me... Probably a very heated yelling match and then me getting arrested for assault.

REMEMBER: Violence solves everything! (Or so our government tells us)

Much sarcasm implied.

[Robert Hall]

I've never had a comment from others when I put $50+ in my Jeep, since more often than not the person at the pump next to me has a bigger SUV.. (Colorado has the highest concentration of SUVs anywhere, I think)..

[Enzora]

I really hate when important issues like the environment get reduced to political rhetoric. Then people just do what the talking heads tell them to do instead of actually thinking and learning for themselves.

[Screaming Trees]

Pretty sad that americans are so f**king ignorant these days.

I know what will happen if someone sneers or comments at me... Probably a very heated yelling match and then me getting arrested for assault.

REMEMBER: Violence solves everything! (Or so our government tells us)

Much sarcasm implied.

ditto

[Farkas]

I had a guy tell me I should consider getting a newer, more fuel efficient vehicle when he saw me putting $55 into the Rodeo (the one time I fill it ). I told him that a car payment and insurance for a 17-year old would be through the roof, and that concerning yourself with other peoples monetary issues is incredibly rude. That put him in his place.

Then I had the lady at the stoplight. She motioned me to put down my window, which doesn't go down (bad window motor). I motioned that I couldn't, so maybe she though I was being an asshole. She had the balls to write "UR SUV IS RUINING THE OZONE JERK!!!!" on a piece of lined paper and wave it at my window. It took all my effort not get out of the car and slap that ho back to reality.

Some people should be punched in the face. Repeatedly.

[Sixty8panther]

I'd love to break that guy's fu$%in' head of & piss down his neck.

But violance is not the answer so instead I will think of him every

time I fill up my '59 Buick between Boston & Tulsa as I'm getting

all of 11.8mpg.

[Enzora]

I'd love to break that guy's fu$%in' head of & piss down his neck.

But violance is not the answer so instead I will think of him every

time I fill up my '59 Buick between Boston & Tulsa as I'm getting

all of 11.8mpg.

Yeesh. That's just masochism.

[Sixty8panther]

Masochism is alowing your self worth to be so low that

you manage to justify in (your) warped mind driving

some piece of $hit sub-compact Toyota or HondAcura.

[Oracle of Delphi]

If people piss you off, just buy a chainsaw and a woodchipper! Problem solved.

[Hollingsworth]

I witnessed a dirty hippie type guy in an older Jetta (complete with politically liberal bumper stickers) tell a man getting out his Land Cruiser "Global warming, sir. Global warming."

It made me ashamed to be a VW owner.

[Oracle of Delphi]

I witnessed a dirty hippie type guy in an older Jetta (complete with politically liberal bumper stickers) tell a man getting out his Land Cruiser "Global warming, sir. Global warming."

It made me ashamed to be a VW owner.

The slave labor (Jews, Gypsies and Gays) VW used during World War II didn't bother you? Just asking?

Edited June 12, 2007 by Pontiac Custom-S

[Robert Hall]

The slave labor (Jews, Gypsies and Gays) VW used during World War II didn't bother you? Just asking?

How would something that happened over 60 years ago have any relevance today? Similar kinds of things could be said about Mercedes, Opel, Mitsubishi, etc..

[Oracle of Delphi]

How would something that happened over 60 years ago have any relevance today? Similar kinds of things could be said about Mercedes, Opel, Mitsubishi, etc..

History has a bad habit of repeating itself, at least to the uninformed! VW was the worst offender.

[Hollingsworth]

The slave labor (Jews, Gypsies and Gays) VW used during World War II didn't bother you? Just asking?

No, can't say that it does. That was 60 years ago.

On the other hand, does the fact that your Pontiac is manufactured by unionized workers bother you?

[Oracle of Delphi]

No, can't say that it does. That was 60 years ago.

On the other hand, does the fact that your Pontiac is manufactured by unionized workers bother you?

No, I happen to love Canadians!

[Hollingsworth]

Canadian or American, it was manufactured in a UAW facility. I tend to avoid products/services from companies with organized labor wherever possible, for personal reasons.

EDIT: Sorry, the Ontario Plant is organized by CAW. My mistake.

Edited June 12, 2007 by Hollingsworth

[Oracle of Delphi]

Canadian or American, it was manufactured in a UAW facility. I tend to avoid products/services from companies with organized labor wherever possible, for personal reasons.

Actually it was the CAW. Have you seen the German Auto Unions? I have!

[Hollingsworth]

I could care less about German unions. German unions haven't been a pain in my ass for the past ten years (like several ones affiliated with the AFL-CIO).

Anyway, back on topic. Prius owners are the worst. It's amazing how often they bring up, in casual conversation, their gas mileage. Usually in comparison to your car.

Prius owner: "What does your car get?"

Response: "About 27"

Prius owner: "Oh really. Mine gets 40/70/100 (depending on how exaggerative they're feeling that day)."

Edited June 12, 2007 by Hollingsworth

[Intrepidation]

The slave labor (Jews, Gypsies and Gays) VW used during World War II didn't bother you? Just asking?

I hate it when people bring up past events that are irrelevant today. It's like trying to dig up dirt on GM and Opel from WWII.

Edited June 12, 2007 by Dodgefan

[Oracle of Delphi]

I hate it when people bring up past events that are irrelevant today. It's like trying to dig up dirt on GM and Opel from WWII.

It's not irrelevant, you just show your ignorance by saying so!

[regfootball]

I'd love to break that guy's fu$%in' head of & piss down his neck.

But violance is not the answer so instead I will think of him every

time I fill up my '59 Buick between Boston & Tulsa as I'm getting

all of 11.8mpg.

can I join you in that endeavor?

[Intrepidation]

It's not irrelevant, you just show your ignorance by saying so!

Oh, do tell how it is relevant. It happened, it's been documented, it's in the past...60 or so years in the past. Does it happen today at VW? No you say? Well then in that makes it pretty irrelevant in the present, especially when it comes to car purchasing or brand appeal/loyalty.

These sort of things are relevant to know sure, but not in the context you were implying.

[Oracle of Delphi]

I don't buy VW because of it, just as I don't buy Mitsubishi for similar reasons. The title of this thread is Things that make you shake your head, aka perceptions are everything. People who buy VW & Mitsubishi products in ignorant bliss do just that, make ME shake my head. You I can forgive, you're what 21? Still very wet behind the ears. Talk to me when you're older, I can make a bet your views will be so different than today, that you won't recognize yourself.

[Flybrian]

How would something that happened over 60 years ago have any relevance today? Similar kinds of things could be said about Mercedes, Opel, Mitsubishi, etc..

I must admit, though, Mitsubishi makes themselves an easy target, like with their recent Zero Zero Zero event that reminded me of the original Zero Zero Zero event...

[capriceman]

"

I don't buy VW because of it, just as I don't buy Mitsubishi for similar reasons. The title of this thread is Things that make you shake your head, aka perceptions are everything. People who buy VW & Mitsubishi products in ignorant bliss do just that, make ME shake my head. You I can forgive, you're what 21? Still very wet behind the ears. Talk to me when you're older, I can make a bet your views will be so different than today, that you won't recognize yourself.

"

[Intrepidation]

I don't buy VW because of it, just as I don't buy Mitsubishi for similar reasons. The title of this thread is Things that make you shake your head, aka perceptions are everything. People who buy VW & Mitsubishi products in ignorant bliss do just that, make ME shake my head. You I can forgive, you're what 21? Still very wet behind the ears. Talk to me when you're older, I can make a bet your views will be so different than today, that you won't recognize yourself.

I know plenty about WWII. I know plenty about the Holocaust, the Third Reich, Suicidal pilots in their Mitsubishi Zeros. But once more, this is in the past. Unlike some I won't hold what happened back then against the society of today. If I went by your rule of thumb, I'd never want or buy anything that came out of Germany, and we can include Opel too for that, or anything that came from Japan. But y`know, America's not perfect either. How many innocent lives were lost because of the atomic bombs? War is not black and white. It's not all bad and good. There's a mix, and many innocent people died. Do not underestimate my knowledge of such things because I am younger than you, and do not think that just because I will get older means my views will become more clouded, and more bias.

But hey to each his own. Back to the topic.

I guess that time the refrigerator mechanic tried to spin Toyota's 500K recall of the Tundra as a conspiracy by the Domestics made me shake my head. Or that people believe that only the Domestics still use 4-speed automatics...I surprised my coworker when I informed him how several Toyota products still use 4-speeds.

[Flybrian]

How many innocent lives were lost because of the atomic bombs?

Not near as many that lost their lives to our incendiary bombing of major Japanese cities, and those totals pretty much balance out the innumerable Chinese noncombatants slaughtered at the hands of Imperial Army soldiers during the occupation of Manchuria and mainland China - and unlike the former, there was no reason for this Asian holocaust but pure ethnic spite against the Chinese. And yet, every one of our actions are completley justified because we didn't start that war, but we sure finished it.

And to be quite honest, Western Europe and contemporary Japan are better off because of the devestation we caused during WWII. Last time I checked, the English didn't try to help us rebuild after the Revolution, nor did France and Russia help Germany get back on its feet after the Great War. We eviscerated our adversaries, yet still had the decency, forsight, and humanity to assist them economically, technologically, and militarily to help them not only survive but thrive, become world powers again not by Imperialism, but by economic cooporation and friendship. How do you think a victorious Japan or Germany would've treated a vanquished United States?

But I digress...

[knightfan26917]

*shakes head*

Holy crap ... such replies.....

But ... foremost ... I _must_ make a correction to my original report of the events. I noted the MPG was 18.56. Well, when I double checked it this morning before I left for work, I discovered that it actually was ... 18.53. Thought I'd better clarify that .

Anyway ...

I'd love to break that guy's fu$%in' head of & piss down his neck.

But violance is not the answer so instead I will think of him every

time I fill up my '59 Buick between Boston & Tulsa as I'm getting

all of 11.8mpg.

...and that better include a stop in IL. Or else, I get the Buick . he he

One thing ya'll should know by now, I am NOT one for confrontation. I was actually a bit nervous ... ya never know when the '87 MC LS might deide to NOT get 18mpg or so in a week . Joking around aside, I wouldn't be violent ... I don't think. And, some of the comments suggested ... well, that either wouldn't be me ... or ... I'd think of it after the fact ... he he.

Heh ... I'm still dumbfounded by that entire experience. As some of you noted ... the dumbing of Americans is quite astonishing and sad....

"Yeah, we got problems here in the land of the free" ... Barbara Mandrell ... 'In Times Like These'

Hmmm...I might've given the guy a heart attack if I told him I was looking for an "older" winter beater . I saw a bit more rust on the '87 MC LS when I cleaned it up Saturday ... arg.

*sighs*

Speaking of which ... sure would be nice to find a "winter beater" I want around my area. I know of an '87 Olds Cutlass, reddish in color, that would be PERFECT. But, it is in Granite City IL ... near St Louis MO. I've seen pics of it ... and the asking price is under $3K.... Just don't know when I could go down to see it ... and I know I'd be unhappy if I was disappointed after seeing it in person.

Ah, well.

Cort:33swm."Mr Monte Carlo.Mr Road Trip".pig valve.pacemaker

PICS:lego.HO.model.MCinfo.RT.CHD = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort

"We never stop to think what we consume" ... Bellamy Brothers ... 'Kids Of The Baby Boom'

[Oracle of Delphi]

I must admit, though, Mitsubishi makes themselves an easy target, like with their recent Zero Zero Zero event that reminded me of the original Zero Zero Zero event...

Ahhhh Fly, that is rich. I hope you don't mind but I copied your artwork here. I plan to make two copies and keep one in each of my offices in the USA and Germany. Yeah I know it's not very PC, but I never liked being PC anyway!

[Flybrian]

As long as you're not MAC.

Feel free, sir!

[Cory Wolfe]

How would something that happened over 60 years ago have any relevance today? Similar kinds of things could be said about Mercedes, Opel, Mitsubishi, etc..

Agreed.

Oh, do tell how it is relevant. It happened, it's been documented, it's in the past...60 or so years in the past. Does it happen today at VW? No you say? Well then in that makes it pretty irrelevant in the present, especially when it comes to car purchasing or brand appeal/loyalty.

These sort of things are relevant to know sure, but not in the context you were implying.

Agreed.

I don't buy VW because of it, just as I don't buy Mitsubishi for similar reasons. The title of this thread is Things that make you shake your head, aka perceptions are everything. People who buy VW & Mitsubishi products in ignorant bliss do just that, make ME shake my head. You I can forgive, you're what 21? Still very wet behind the ears. Talk to me when you're older, I can make a bet your views will be so different than today, that you won't recognize yourself.

I know plenty about WWII. I know plenty about the Holocaust, the Third Reich, Suicidal pilots in their Mitsubishi Zeros. But once more, this is in the past. Unlike some I won't hold what happened back then against the society of today. If I went by your rule of thumb, I'd never want or buy anything that came out of Germany, and we can include Opel too for that, or anything that came from Japan. But y`know, America's not perfect either. How many innocent lives were lost because of the atomic bombs? War is not black and white. It's not all bad and good. There's a mix, and many innocent people died. Do not underestimate my knowledge of such things because I am younger than you, and do not think that just because I will get older means my views will become more clouded, and more bias.

And yet another "Agreed". It's retarded, hypocritical, and so many other things to berate a few companies because of their past, but completely ignore the past of the company you work for. Sad... Pathetic. Things that make me shake my head? That right there. Edited June 12, 2007 by blackviper8891

[Oracle of Delphi]

Agreed.

Agreed.

And yet another "Agreed". It's retarded, hypocritical, and so many other things to berate a few companies because of their past, but completely ignore the past of the company you work for. Sad... Pathetic. Things that make me shake my head? That right there.

Ahhh another inconsequential country heard from, whos opinions do not matter to me in the least!

[the_yellow_dart]

...innumerable Chinese noncombatants slaughtered at the hands of Imperial Army soldiers during the occupation of Manchuria and mainland China...

The Hong Kong Museum of History spoke of the American bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima like it was the best thing that ever happened to the world. They showed what happened to HK during WWII and how they were exploited by the Japanese, and then basically portrayed the Americans as saving the day.

Mainland China may not appreciate America that much, but Hong Kong sure does.

[CARBIZ]

I think this (hijacked) thread is seeing a clean split, based along ageism. Kiddies, don't assume that what they taught you in highschool is the truth. Dig a little deeper. Go to a good reference library and dig, dig, dig.

History is never irrelevant. Japan Inc has not stopped fighting WWII. Only the uniforms have changed. They are a deeply proud, nationalist society and many of them haven't forgiven what happened 60 years ago. Why should we?

Nissan was formed in Manchuria by the Department of Defense to build tanks and trucks using slave labor, and financed by the military bank. Bet you don't see that in their glossy corporate brochures?

While Germany takes all the glory for the Holocaust, Japan pretty much got off scott free, although they murdered a lot more innocent Chinese civilians. Do you know how many complaints have been filed by American pharmaceutical companies because Japanese pharmaceutical companies have access to military records on torture? I mean, how long does it take to kill a man in water at 5 degrees celsius?

What we are "taught" in our enlightened school system borders on propaganda, too, although I would have to say ours are far better than theirs. Remember, text books are written by the victors, not the vanquished. But WWII didn't end the way most wars are supposed to end - with the annhilation and wiping out of the enemy. Instead, in our more enlightened society at the time, we chose to rebuild and pat them on the head. So, this gives Japan the opportunity to rewrite their version of what happened, and downplay the bad things. How about a million Korean woman dragged into servitude and prostitution for the uniformed boys?

Maybe we should have done what Attila and the boys would have - just wipe them out and be done with it?

If none of this phases you, if none of this effects your buying decisions, then I challenge you to visit the next Remembrance Day ceremonies and talk to some of the old buggers who fought over there. Do it while you can, before they are all dead and forgotten.

[the_yellow_dart]

How about this guy? He's hard as f**k!!!

wiki - soldier survived crucifixion by Japanese for two days

[Cory Wolfe]

I think this (hijacked) thread is seeing a clean split, based along ageism. Kiddies, don't assume that what they taught you in highschool is the truth. Dig a little deeper. Go to a good reference library and dig, dig, dig.

History is never irrelevant. Japan Inc has not stopped fighting WWII. Only the uniforms have changed. They are a deeply proud, nationalist society and many of them haven't forgiven what happened 60 years ago. Why should we?

Nissan was formed in Manchuria by the Department of Defense to build tanks and trucks using slave labor, and financed by the military bank. Bet you don't see that in their glossy corporate brochures?

While Germany takes all the glory for the Holocaust, Japan pretty much got off scott free, although they murdered a lot more innocent Chinese civilians. Do you know how many complaints have been filed by American pharmaceutical companies because Japanese pharmaceutical companies have access to military records on torture? I mean, how long does it take to kill a man in water at 5 degrees celsius?

What we are "taught" in our enlightened school system borders on propaganda, too, although I would have to say ours are far better than theirs. Remember, text books are written by the victors, not the vanquished. But WWII didn't end the way most wars are supposed to end - with the annhilation and wiping out of the enemy. Instead, in our more enlightened society at the time, we chose to rebuild and pat them on the head. So, this gives Japan the opportunity to rewrite their version of what happened, and downplay the bad things. How about a million Korean woman dragged into servitude and prostitution for the uniformed boys?

Maybe we should have done what Attila and the boys would have - just wipe them out and be done with it?

If none of this phases you, if none of this effects your buying decisions, then I challenge you to visit the next Remembrance Day ceremonies and talk to some of the old buggers who fought over there. Do it while you can, before they are all dead and forgotten.

No one is saying we should forget anything. I'm simply saying its hypocritical to berate other companies/countries when our own "home team" isn't innocent in the least. If you are going to let these things effect your buying decisions, You might as well move to some small, powerless, inconsequential nation and only buy things made there. The US is not innocent. GM is not innocent. Ford is not innocent. If you're going to let VW's, Mitsubishi's, Nissan's, etc pasts prevent you from buying their vehicles, let's see you prevent yourself from buying Fords for Henry Fords racism, antisemitism... GMs for Opel's part in WWII for Germany and Hitler... Or anything American for past slavery, anti-feminism, the war in Iraq, many acts of harassment to homosexuals, etc. If anything is propaganda, its what you and PCS are spewing. The past is the past. Let's not forget it, but let's not run our lives by it. Germany isn't run by Hitler anymore, Japan ISN'T still fighting WWII, America abolished slavery, gave women rights, will soon enough pull out of Iraq once Bush is finally out of office and eventually will give us homosexuals the rights we deserve. THE PAST IS THE PAST. The longer you stay stagnant over the past, the more irrelevant your views become and border on conspiracy theories. Edited June 12, 2007 by blackviper8891

[Flybrian]

You're telling me you don't find it funny that the timeline on Mercedes' website omits a large gap in the 1940s and how Subaru really doesn't go very in-depth about explaining its "roots in aviation?"

I don't let such things in history control my purchasing decision, but I do realize certain nations still have atonement pending. I also respect the feelings of those that do factor in their decision as perhaps their lives have been touched by such long and dusty memories in ways I do not understand.

[Robert Hall]

THE PAST IS THE PAST. The longer you stay stagnant over the past, the more irrelevant your views become and border on conspiracy theories.

Agreed... it's good to acknowledge the past and be aware of it, but don't live in it... I like living in the here and now and looking forward to the future, not living in the past...

[toesuf94]

Agreed... it's good to acknowledge the past and be aware of it, but don't live in it... I like living in the here and now and looking forward to the future, not living in the past...

You say that and blackviper8891 talks about homosexuals getting the treatment they deserve once Bush leaves office and we leave Iraq...you are not reading the posts nor have you learned from history. Believe what you want about the war - we are fighting people who want to end our lives as we know them. They are in a Jihad against us ( when somebody pin points what we did to the towelies, please appologize so we can stop this bullshi*!) much like Japan was against us in WW2 for not supporting thier attempt to take over China. They attacked us - just like we were attacked on 9/11. So we have taken our fight to them in reprisal in Afgahnistan and Iraq. That is what we are doing there - killing the Taliban and A-Q. Saddam and his boys were killing millions of people and dumping them in pits all over the country - we turn up a mass grave it seems weekly...reminds you a bit of Hitler and his boys, no? We put a stop to it. For those of you who believe that Saddam did not have chemical and biological weapons in his arsonal...please speak with the Kurds who were killed by such weaponry and ask them how they died. Those weapons are now in the hands of Saddam's freinds. We will find them in New York or California before it is all said and done. This is not over when we leave Iraq or the middle east - not by a long shot! The only thing we are doing now that I think is wrong is trying to be surgical in our strikes where blunt force should be used. We use laser guided bombs on a sellect target, terrorists simply blow everything up in a 300 foot radius...collateral damage be damned. We have lost the last two wars that we tried to be surgical and peacekeepers...Viet Nam and Korea...have we not learned from those two mistakes?

Nobody is looking at what happened 60 years ago and COMPARING it to the world today. Nobody learned, or those that did and were vigilant are now dead or too old to care! Those that ARE old enough to know better are screaming about the world today and not being heard behind the iPods everyone is wearing. This is why I am shaking my head!

That and people who buy Toyotas. Seriously: Has ANYONE EVER heard the following words spoken to ANYONE with a Toyota - new or old; " Wow, Nice car!" OR "What a beautiful car!" Or "Cool car, Dude!" I have never heard it or seen it! EVER.

As for the gay rights issues - anything you do is going to be as effective as the three emoticons to the left. Sorry. Personally, I do not have an opinion either way. Just try to be happy and live your life with your beliefs...that is all you can do.

Edited June 12, 2007 by toesuf94

[Cory Wolfe]

You say that and blackviper8891 talks about homosexuals getting the treatment they deserve once Bush leaves office and we leave Iraq...you are not reading the posts nor have you learned from history. Believe what you want about the war - we are fighting people who want to end our lives as we know them. They are in a Jihad against us ( when somebody pin points what we did to the towelies, please appologize so we can stop this bullshi*!) much like Japan was against us in WW2 for not supporting thier attempt to take over China. They attacked us - just like we were attacked on 9/11. So we have taken our fight to them in reprisal in Afgahnistan and Iraq. That is what we are doing there - killing the Taliban and A-Q. Saddam and his boys were killing millions of people and dumping them in pits all over the country - we turn up a mass grave it seems weekly...reminds you a bit of Hitler and his boys, no? We put a stop to it. For those of you who believe that Saddam did not have chemical and biological weapons in his arsonal...please speak with the Kurds who were killed by such weaponry and ask them how they died. Those weapons are now in the hands of Saddam's freinds. We will find them in New York or California before it is all said and done. This is not over when we leave Iraq or the middle east - not by a long shot! The only thing we are doing now that I think is wrong is trying to be surgical in our strikes where blunt force should be used. We use laser guided bombs on a sellect target, terrorists simply blow everything up in a 300 foot radius...collateral damage be damned. We have lost the last two wars that we tried to be surgical and peacekeepers...Viet Nam and Korea...have we not learned from those two mistakes?

Nobody is looking at what happened 60 years ago and COMPARING it to the world today. Nobody learned, or those that did and were vigilant are now dead or too old to care! Those that ARE old enough to know better are screaming about the world today and not being heard behind the iPods everyone is wearing. This is why I am shaking my head!

That and people who buy Toyotas. Seriously: Has ANYONE EVER heard the following words spoken to ANYONE with a Toyota - new or old; " Wow, Nice car!" OR "What a beautiful car!" Or "Cool car, Dude!" I have never heard it or seen it! EVER.

As for the gay rights issues - anything you do is going to be as effective as the three emoticons to the left. Sorry. Personally, I do not have an opinion either way. Just try to be happy and live your life with your beliefs...that is all you can do.

War in Iraq = Unjustified. Don't start with that BS.

As for gay rights. Look at Europe, look at Canada, look at Massachussetts. It'll happen, it's just a matter of time. What you said could be said about the rights of other races... or the rights of women. Society changes and things people thought would never happen, happened. If you don't believe it does, you're living in a bubble and need to get out and open your eyes. I repeat... Europe is not run by Hitler anymore. Japan isn't still fighting WWII. America abolished slavery, gave rights to other races and women. I could go on and on. Again, I say, the past is the past. If you're going to continue to stay stagnant on the past... Your views and opinions will soon enough become irrelevant and just some idiotic conspiracy theories that no one is going to pay attention to, like it or not.

[CARBIZ]

No one is saying we should forget anything. I'm simply saying its hypocritical to berate other companies/countries when our own "home team" isn't innocent in the least. If you are going to let these things effect your buying decisions, You might as well move to some small, powerless, inconsequential nation and only buy things made there. The US is not innocent. GM is not innocent. Ford is not innocent. If you're going to let VW's, Mitsubishi's, Nissan's, etc pasts prevent you from buying their vehicles, let's see you prevent yourself from buying Fords for Henry Fords racism, antisemitism... GMs for Opel's part in WWII for Germany and Hitler... Or anything American for past slavery, anti-feminism, the war in Iraq, many acts of harassment to homosexuals, etc. If anything is propaganda, its what you and PCS are spewing. The past is the past. Let's not forget it, but let's not run our lives by it. Germany isn't run by Hitler anymore, Japan ISN'T still fighting WWII, America abolished slavery, gave women rights, will soon enough pull out of Iraq once Bush is finally out of office and eventually will give us homosexuals the rights we deserve. THE PAST IS THE PAST. The longer you stay stagnant over the past, the more irrelevant your views become and border on conspiracy theories.

So, you're equating Japan's rape of Manchuria (estimates of 10-15million dead) with what America has done - when? Hiroshima? Firebombing of Dresden? Doesn't even come close!

The past is not in the past, my friend. American pharmaceutical companies were complaining as recently as the 1980s that there were government documents being circulated to Japanese companies that gave them an edge in certain testing of drugs and procedures. Opel may have done a lot of questionable things during WWII to stay in existence, but that isn't the same as how Nissan was formed. Not by a long shot. Henry Ford may have been an anti-Semite, but he also was one of the first to hire black workers in the Detroit area and kept a personal friend around, who happened to be black, for a very long time.

And something a little closer to home, blackviper8891, is what we are NOT taught in our schools about gay history. I sat through an entire year of Classical Studies in highschool where we studied the ancient Greeks and Romans, yet the only mention of the importance of homosexuals in their societies was not even whispered about. Oh, except a few snickers about the island of Lesbos! Disappointed, I walked into the Reference Library at the University of Toronto and you couldn't pick up a single book that didn't have pictures of tapestries, urns or statues of two guys screwing each other! I was 17 and I was outraged at how this was completely surpressed.

So, no, I will not let the past die, because it is very important to all of us. Chinese diplomats have lodged numerous protests that Japanese schools are rewriting text books to downplay what happened in WWII.

We must always be diligent, lest we are doomed to repeat history.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Japan ISN'T still fighting WWII

Oh yes they are, every Japanese car you see in North America is part of that war. Don't fool yourself!

I personally will never buy a Japanese car, I will buy a GM Chineses car no problem. If Japan never had invaded China in WWII, China today most likely would be a democratic nation. So yeah the past does matter, it shaped what we have today. I like the fact that China is becoming a stronger nation for one simple fact. It scares the FU*K out of Japan.