The Future of Buick

[Flybrian]

Buick: A brand rechanneled

Automotive News / August 21, 2006 - 6:00 am

LaCrosse: Buick plans to offer a 5.3-liter V-8 for the 2007 model year. A redesign is expected for the 2010 model year, possibly on General Motors' front-wheel-drive Epsilon 2 architecture.

To reduce costs, all vehicles developed on Epsilon 2 (Chevrolet and Opel, for example) will be engineered by GM Europe in Ruesselsheim, Germany. U.S. operations are to provide specifications for such things as ride and handling. Styling will be determined by the region that will market the car. The LaCrosse will be styled by GM North America. Powertrains will differ by region.

Lucerne: A rear-wheel-drive Lucerne is expected, likely bowing for the 2010 model year. GM's global rwd vehicle architecture is being developed for several brands by Holden, the automaker's Australian operation. The Lucerne name may be replaced at that point.

Coupe, convertible: Buick is no longer considering a halo vehicle based on the rwd Velite convertible concept it showed at the New York auto show in 2004. As GM pushes Buick to align with Pontiac and GMC under one channel, Pontiac will take over as the sporty coupe/convertible brand. Pontiac has the hot-selling Solstice convertible roadster and recently introduced the G6 convertible hardtop, for example.

Terraza: The Terraza minivan will be offered until July 2008, at which time Buick will exit the minivan segment.

Rendezvous: The 2007 model is the last for the Rendezvous.

Enclave: The mid-sized 2008 Enclave crossover essentially will replace two Buick nameplates, the Rendezvous and the Rainier. The Enclave will be developed on GM's new fwd mid-sized Lambda architecture, which also will be shared by crossovers for Saturn and GMC. A V-6 engine initially will be offered; a V-8 is expected to follow in several months.

Rainier: The 2007 model year is the last for the Rainier.

[trinacriabob]

Makes sense to me:

1.

Full-size car

LUCERNE

Most likely RWD the next go around (Zeta)

2.

Mid-size car

LA CROSSE or EQUIV

May still be FWD at the next go around (Epsilon 2), anchoring the entry into a Buick

Thus:

a. all their cars can't be RWD as some people in harsher climates could benefit from FWD

b. the LaX is around a little longer as a W to align itself with the production of the 3800 V6 (no comments, guys) and allow for the benefit of 2 years from a mid-cycle enhancement

3.

SUV type vehicle

ENCLAVE

the co-existence of Rainier and Rendezvous is ridiculous, anyway

4.

Wild card

Sure would be nice to see either or both a

a. RIVIERA that is an exquisitely executed personal luxury RWD coupe

b. VELITE that is an up-market RWD response to the Solstice

THAT'S IT -

4 or 5 clearly defined vehicles representing segments in which Buick should be dabbling.

[Cananopie]

Pontiac will take over as the sporty coupe/convertible brand. Pontiac has the hot-selling Solstice convertible roadster and recently introduced the G6 convertible hardtop, for example.

Nothing against the Solstice but it is not a luxury convertible or even an entry-luxury convertible. There should be no such thing as a "coupe/convertible brand"... they should each offer a bit of variety. Buick should not only sell 4 door sedans that always take a backseat to Pontiac's "performance" and Pontiac should sell some sedans too.

A Buick coupe/convertible would bring style to a GM convertible/coupe that Pontiac just can not do.

[bring_BUICK_back]

Whomever is running this show at Buick or GM. Buick is starving for products. They can not wait till 2010 for a LaCrosse replacement. Buick could be a fantastic brand. I just don't understand why GM continues to screw with it. They give products to Saturn, Chevy, Pontiac, Cadillac, but they just refuse to do anything for Buick.

We need to fight for Buick. LET OUR VOICES BE HEARD.

Give Buick something other then an Encllave (which shows it can be done) & Lucerne

[Dsuupr]

Like Pontiac, this seems like a rather thin well dated line over the next few years.

Please GM, have something in store that's a little more exciting than this.

[Paolino]

Buick: A brand rechanneled

Automotive News / August 21, 2006 - 6:00 am

LaCrosse: Buick plans to offer a 5.3-liter V-8 for the 2007 model year. A redesign is expected for the 2010 model year, possibly on General Motors' front-wheel-drive Epsilon 2 architecture.

To reduce costs, all vehicles developed on Epsilon 2 (Chevrolet and Opel, for example) will be engineered by GM Europe in Ruesselsheim, Germany. U.S. operations are to provide specifications for such things as ride and handling. Styling will be determined by the region that will market the car. The LaCrosse will be styled by GM North America. Powertrains will differ by region.

Lucerne: A rear-wheel-drive Lucerne is expected, likely bowing for the 2010 model year. GM's global rwd vehicle architecture is being developed for several brands by Holden, the automaker's Australian operation. The Lucerne name may be replaced at that point.

Coupe, convertible: Buick is no longer considering a halo vehicle based on the rwd Velite convertible concept it showed at the New York auto show in 2004. As GM pushes Buick to align with Pontiac and GMC under one channel, Pontiac will take over as the sporty coupe/convertible brand. Pontiac has the hot-selling Solstice convertible roadster and recently introduced the G6 convertible hardtop, for example.

Terraza: The Terraza minivan will be offered until July 2008, at which time Buick will exit the minivan segment.

Rendezvous: The 2007 model is the last for the Rendezvous.

Enclave: The mid-sized 2008 Enclave crossover essentially will replace two Buick nameplates, the Rendezvous and the Rainier. The Enclave will be developed on GM's new fwd mid-sized Lambda architecture, which also will be shared by crossovers for Saturn and GMC. A V-6 engine initially will be offered; a V-8 is expected to follow in several months.

Rainier: The 2007 model year is the last for the Rainier.

183240[/snapback]

So.... 3, 4 vehicles? Really? That's the WHOLE brand? Wow.

[buickguy]

How come no mention of the LaCrosse Super?

Where does that stand?

[enzl]

How come no mention of the LaCrosse Super?

Where does that stand?

183362[/snapback]

V8 install right at the top of the info....

...it's merely an extension of the line, not a new product. It also leaves open the possibility that the LaCrosse Super may not be introduced, rather the V8 will be an option in the upper trim level(s).

Remember, according to GM's BPG channel, each of the future vehicles would be complimentary, rather than competitors, so the RWD Pontiacs and GMC trucks/xovers are supposed to cover the holes in Buick's lineup.

[Drew Dowdell]

So.... 3, 4 vehicles?  Really?  That's the WHOLE brand?  Wow. 

183358[/snapback]

Acura, TSX, TL, RL, MDX

Scion, xA, xB, tC

Subaru, Impreza, Legacy, Forrester, Tribecca

Lincoln, Zephyr, Navigtor, TownCar, MKX

Jeep, Liberty, Grand Cherokee, Wrangler, Commander

[BlkHhr104]

You forgot Patriot and Compass.... as well as RDX.

[Drew Dowdell]

You forgot Patriot and Compass.... as well as RDX.

183402[/snapback]

so has everyone else......

[wildcat]

Since GM evidently has trouble finding products for Buick, how about something smaller, more light-weight, more fuel efficient? Something AWD or a hybrid? They know Buick needs competitive, class-leading product, yet they try to drag Cadillac down to under 30K with a BLS in NA? I thought Buick was near-luxury. They blur the lines by giving GMC a car-based Acadia? I thought GMC would have only trucks. They have no money nor a platform for Velite?

Edited August 22, 2006 by wildcat

[Paolino]

Acura, TSX, TL, RL, MDX

Scion, xA, xB, tC

Subaru, Impreza, Legacy, Forrester, Tribecca

Lincoln, Zephyr, Navigtor, TownCar, MKX

Jeep, Liberty, Grand Cherokee, Wrangler, Commander

183366[/snapback]

Aside from the fact you forgot a few models up there...

What are peoples' impressions of Acura? Some crappy product, some overpriced product. Lincoln? I need not go further with peoples' comments on this board. Jeep? Commander has been tanking and people are laughing at the Compass. Scion? IT SUCKS. And it's a new brand. I'll give it 3 models to start--compared to Buick which has been around forever.

So, Buick is supposed to have the number of models as some crappy brands? Well, then their models better be DAMN GOOD.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

I think the Acura RDX is going to be a huge hit and doing something Mercury Mariner can't do-combine luxury with a car-based compact crossover SUV-why isn't Buick in on this? Whoever created GMC must be spinning in their grave right now even hearing about the product planners THINKING about a minivan-I'm thankful however that the compact crossover supposedly got canned.

[Carguy]

Being that BUICK will be sold along side both PONTIAC and GMC they ((ALL TOGETHER)) will make ((ONE COMPLETE BRAND))! Buick for AFFORDABLE LUXURY---PONTIAC for AFFORDABLE PERFORMANCE and GMC for slitely higher end TRUCKS's/SUV's and CROSSOVER's. Thats why BUICK will have so little in their # of models just like PONTIAC! Its a way they can get by WITHOUT KILLING ANOTHER BRAND the way they did OLDS. And to me THATS A GOOD THING! Less BUICKS to SAVE BUICK!! Less PONTIACS to SAVE PONTIAC!! THATS BETTER THEN (((NO BUICK))) and (((NO PONTIAC))) AT ALL!!

Edited August 22, 2006 by Carguy

[GMman]

Okay....I'm okay with Buick having only 3-4 models, but I still can't figure out the following:

1. Why it's taking so long for the Enclave to come out when the Saturn and GMC

version have already been released?

2. Why is there a GMC version of the Enclave at all?

3. What is the point of GMC?

4. Why is it going to take until 2010 for the new Lucerne and Lacrosse???

5. Does anyone think that the '08 version of the Lucerne will have the 6 speed

auto that the '08 Enclave will have? Even in the front drive version???

[GMman]

I think the Acura RDX is going to be a huge hit and doing something Mercury Mariner can't do-combine luxury with a car-based compact crossover SUV-why isn't Buick in on this? Whoever created GMC must be spinning in their grave right now even hearing about the product planners THINKING about a minivan-I'm thankful however that the compact crossover supposedly got canned.

183433[/snapback]

I think they're not on this because they're too busy making 17 different rebadged vehicles for the lambda platform. That pisses me off.

[wildcat]

Being that BUICK will be sold along side both PONTIAC and GMC . . . Thats why BUICK will have so little in their # of models just like PONTIAC . . .

183449[/snapback]

General idea understood; but why does Pontiac get 5 models [ G5, G6, mid-sized sedan (G8), Solstice, and possible GTO ], when Buick gets only 3 [ Epsilon II LaCrosse, Lambda Enclave, Global RWD Lucerne (Statesman) ]? Then Automotive News reports, in its Future Products feature, that Pontiac will be the "sporty coupe and convertible brand." Leaving what for Buick? Let's be fair! Wagoner and LaNeve said, to the effect of, rather than have a full line of 8 vehicles using half-hearted efforts or obvious badge engineering, wouldn't it be better to have 4 or 5 really good Buicks? OK, where are they? Edited August 22, 2006 by wildcat

[91z4me]

3.  What is the point of GMC?

183450[/snapback]

GM's 2nd most profitable brand and #2 in sales volume. Kill GMC and it is like taking away 1/4 of your profit.

[Northstar]

Okay....I'm okay with Buick having only 3-4 models, but I still can't figure out the following:

1.  Why it's taking so long for the Enclave to come out when the Saturn and GMC

    version have already been released?

2.  Why is there a GMC version of the Enclave at all?

3.  What is the point of GMC?

4.  Why is it going to take until 2010 for the new Lucerne and Lacrosse???

5.  Does anyone think that the '08 version of the Lucerne will have the 6 speed

    auto that the '08 Enclave will have?  Even in the front drive version???

183450[/snapback]

1. It probably got started later on in the development process. Also, it's more unique than the other two (they share a lot) so that may be a reason as well.

2. The Acadia was originally supposed to be a Pontiac, but it ended up going to GMC because they decided Pontiac didn't need one.

3. GMC is supposed to be a step up from Chevy, and it definetly attracts some people that Chevy wouldn't.

4. The 2010 date is deceiving. The LaCrosse will come out in early 2009 (probably January). The Lucerne just came out for '06. If a new one comes for the '10 MY, ten that's only a 4 year run, not long at all.

5. It's possible I suppose, but I'm not positive G- is designed to house the 6-speed (W- is definetly not).

[Paolino]

I'll be honest, I was hoping Buick would have been with 4-5 vehicles:

1) Midsize FWD (AWD available)

2) Fullsize RWD (AWD available)

3) Midsize SUV/CUV (AWD available)

4) Midsize Luxury RWD Coupe (AWD available)

5) optional convertible

[DenCo]

No sir, I don't like it!

This is really looking like Oldsmobile all over again! It better not be what's happening...

Wake-up guys! You need all of your brands, as you've said yourselves; you might want to give them all a nice competet lineup as well while you're at it. I man, there's a difference between refocusing a brand and euthanizing it.

[Carguy]

General idea understood; but why does Pontiac get 5 models [ G5, G6, mid-sized sedan (G8), Solstice, and possible GTO ], when Buick gets only 3 [ Epsilon II LaCrosse, Lambda Enclave, Global RWD Lucerne (Statesman) ]?  Then Automotive News reports, in its Future Products feature, that Pontiac will be the "sporty coupe and convertible brand."  Leaving what for Buick?  Let's be fair!  Wagoner and LaNeve said, to the effect of, rather than have a full line of 8 vehicles using half-hearted efforts or obvious badge engineering, wouldn't it be better to have 4 or 5 really good Buicks?  OK, where are they?

183471[/snapback]

I think G5 is a STOP GAP MEASURE and G6 will eventually DIE with PONTIACS future RWD conversion. That leaves 3 for each toteling 6 between the two. If PONT does a small RWD KAPPA cpe.sdn. they could call it G4 to put it bellow G8 and GTO in their lineup and there could be vairious BUICK models that they are working on WE DONT KNOW ABOUT! This still seems to me a GREAT plan on their part over KILLING ANOTHER BRAND the way they did OLD's. I could see 4 BUICKS and 4 PONTIACS selling beside each other with a full SUV/TRUCK line from GMC each model FOCUSED DIFFERENTLY from each other!----- -----HERES HOPEING!!

[trinacriabob]

So.... 3, 4 vehicles?  Really?  That's the WHOLE brand?  Wow. 

183358[/snapback]

That's perfectly OK, P. It's not Chevrolet or Ford. Many segments/niches are not applicable to Buick. Capisce?

[VenSeattle]

That's perfectly OK, P.  It's not Chevrolet or Ford.  Many segments/niches are not applicable to Buick.  Capisce?

183518[/snapback]

Beside Trucks... name another?

Roadsters? Check

Coupes? Check

Convertibles? Check

SUVs? Check

CUVs? Check

Compacts? Check

Midsize sedans? Check

Large sedans? Check

Luxury sedans? Check

Muscle/Performance cars? Check

RWD? Check

FWD? Check

I'm not trying to be an ass... just that Buick could easily be a full line-up Premium brand... way before Pontiac or GMC. Buick could absorb the other two. Its definition of what a vehicle should be is applicable to almost any segment.

[ocnblu]

How many models did Buick sell in 1960, for example?

[trinacriabob]

I'm not trying to be an ass... just that Buick could easily be a full line-up Premium brand... way before Pontiac or GMC. Buick could absorb the other two. Its definition of what a vehicle should be is applicable to almost any segment.

183537[/snapback]

I would rather see them build a handful of superb cars and experience a Renaissance a la Cadillac before getting cocky and spreading their wings too much, trying to be all things to all people. If, taking the pulse, it becomes apparent there is some perception change, they can then expand the product line. One of the most dangerous things in corporate strategy is rapid growth because of the toll on cash flow...cash inflows always follow the investment in a project or venture, and if the lags are too long / too pronounced, there is often trouble. I wouldn't wish that on any GM division, particularly Buick, after watching the demise of Olds.

Edited August 23, 2006 by trinacriabob

[GMman]

1. It probably got started later on in the development process. Also, it's more unique than the other two (they share a lot) so that may be a reason as well.

2. The Acadia was originally supposed to be a Pontiac, but it ended up going to GMC because they decided Pontiac didn't need one.

3. GMC is supposed to be a step up from Chevy, and it definetly attracts some people that Chevy wouldn't.

4. The 2010 date is deceiving. The LaCrosse will come out in early 2009 (probably January). The Lucerne just came out for '06. If a new one comes for the '10 MY, ten that's only a 4 year run, not long at all.

5. It's possible I suppose, but I'm not positive G- is designed to house the 6-speed (W- is definetly not).

183475[/snapback]

1. Got ya, and thank goodness, cause it's beautiful and the others are really just ok... but who needs product right now more out of those three? Especially when you factor in the fact that death is upon 3 of the 5 models in production right now. I just wish they would stop making re-badged vehicles for GMC and focus on getting really unique product out there for Buick...ya know?

2. Yeah, and it's like they say to themselves....we have to make at least three different versions of the same vehicle or we'll implode or something. I know it all has to do with the bottom line and they know more than I, but it seems like their focus is so scattered..

3. I know what they 'say' about GMC, but I do not beieve that if GMC went away those people would simply shift their business to Ford or Dodge. Why not just offer more varieties of Chevrolet? I'm not advocating GMC going away, but when they're getting product upon product, it's all re-badged Chevys, and there are divisions that need the effort they're pouring into GMC, it makes me mad. There isn't 1 unique GMC model. With all that said, I was TOTALLY against Olds dying. I hated that, but I'd of rather seen them kill GMC than Olds.

4. Agreed. But if Lacrosse is having the trouble I've been reading that they're having, maybe they need to get off their arses and quit worrying about if they can re-do the front end of the uplander so GMC can have a mini-van. You know what I mean?

5. Is the Lucerne the W platform? I thought that is what the Lacrosse was on.?? The reason I ask is because I'd like to get a Lucerne this year (2006 or 2007), but if there's a chance '08 would have the 6 spd, I'll be extremely bummed to have purchased the 4 spd...

[trinacriabob]

4.  Agreed.  But if Lacrosse is having the trouble I've been reading that they're having

5.  Is the Lucerne the W platform?  I thought that is what the Lacrosse was on.??  The reason I ask is because I'd like to get a Lucerne this year (2006 or 2007), but if there's a chance '08 would have the 6 spd, I'll be extremely bummed to have purchased the 4 spd...

183622[/snapback]

Response to 4:

Is the LaCrosse having sales problems? Can someone throw some numbers at this? I'd sure like to see them if someone has stats.

Response to 5:

6 speed auto trans *palms sweating.* I remember how much overhauling a THM GM RWD 3 speed trans used to cost as our family has done it, I know how much overhauling a 4 speed GM transaxle currently costs and I shudder to think how much overhauling a 6 speed GM transaxle or transmission would cost.

[Northstar]

4.  Agreed.  But if Lacrosse is having the trouble I've been reading that they're having, maybe they need to get off their arses and quit worrying about if they can re-do the front end of the uplander so GMC can have a mini-van.  You know what I mean?

5.  Is the Lucerne the W platform?  I thought that is what the Lacrosse was on.??  The reason I ask is because I'd like to get a Lucerne this year (2006 or 2007), but if there's a chance '08 would have the 6 spd, I'll be extremely bummed to have purchased the 4 spd...

183622[/snapback]

Well since the LaCrosse really isn't doing that badly I think it's OK. Also the Lambda vans won't just be nose jobs.

The Lucerne is G. I was just saying that I wasn't sure if G could house the 6-speed (and therefore the Lucerne might not be able to get it). The LaCrosse is W and it for sure can NOT house the 6-speed.

[buyacargetacheck]

ontiac will take over as the sporty coupe/convertible brand

Actually, this makes sense. The near luxury coupe market isn't what it was 20 years or even 10 years ago. The Baby Boomers in their peak earnings years prefer SUVs and near lux sedans. The coupe market today is about either about performance or economical sportiness - not "luxury."

So, Pontiac handles coupes exclusively and gets some needed brand definition while Buick likewise handles the comfortable sedan versions of the same platforms. I can't imagine Pontiac giving up on 4 doors however.

Buick, like Acura and Lexus, doesn't need a $30K - $40K halo coupe. The gracefully-styled powerful new 2010 Super Ultra Electra will make us all forget the Riv.

[Cananopie]

Actually, this makes sense.  The near luxury coupe market isn't what it was 20 years or even 10 years ago.  The Baby Boomers in their peak earnings years prefer SUVs and near lux sedans.  The coupe market today is about either about performance or economical sportiness - not "luxury."

So, Pontiac handles coupes exclusively and gets some needed brand definition while Buick likewise handles the comfortable sedan versions of the same platforms.  I can't imagine Pontiac giving up on 4 doors however.

Buick, like Acura and Lexus, doesn't need a $30K - $40K halo coupe.  The gracefully-styled powerful new 2010 Super Ultra Electra will make us all forget the Riv.

183830[/snapback]

Who would not want a powerful luxury coupe that starts at around 30k and drops off at 40k? Especially if it's made by Buick with love.

It's amazing that we can give pretty much all the coupes and convertibles to Pontiac and they still suffer from being a not-too-exciting brand. GM can "handle" bringing some real excitement to Buick.

A nice large coupe in the 30k-40k price range would definitely corner the market and car magazines can't say "Buick trying to be like..." or "Buick following" because for once Buick took the advantage which is what they should when other companies put their guard down on this segment.

There will be no 2010 Super Ultra Electra. That's just crazy sounding. It's going to be a Lucerne, and there is only going to be 3 vehicles. 2 SEDANS (as usual, what killed Buick's image), and 1 SUV. Great.

[buyacargetacheck]

Who would not want a powerful luxury coupe that starts at around 30k and drops off at 40k? Especially if it's made by Buick with love.

It's amazing that we can give pretty much all the coupes and convertibles to Pontiac and they still suffer from being a not-too-exciting brand. GM can "handle" bringing some real excitement to Buick.

A nice large coupe in the 30k-40k price range would definitely corner the market and car magazines can't say "Buick trying to be like..." or "Buick following" because for once Buick took the advantage which is what they should when other companies put their guard down on this segment.

There will be no 2010 Super Ultra Electra. That's just crazy sounding. It's going to be  a Lucerne, and there is only going to be 3 vehicles. 2 SEDANS (as usual, what killed Buick's image), and 1 SUV. Great.

183936[/snapback]

Well, if GM decided to offer a Buick coupe I wouldn't complain. But forget it if building it means losing money.

"Super Ultra Electra" is tongue-in-cheek of course. But some 1950s-type "over-the-top" names would add a bit of sparkle to an otherwise dull market. 1950s and 60s hope and optimism would go a long way towards quickly rebuilding Buick's image. And Buick is one of the few nameplates that has the genuine heritage to pull it off. "Lucerne" is OK, but "Super Special Electra Flowmaster Flash Ultra" is more exciting.

[GMman]

Response to 4:

Is the LaCrosse having sales problems?  Can someone throw some numbers at this?  I'd sure like to see them if someone has stats.

I have no idea if they're having sales problems. My comment was referring to the article on this site titled "Lacrossed Out". The link from that post eluded to the Lacrosse sales numbers being off...but I don't know for sure. The point of my comment is that I don't like GM having to make 17 (I'm exaggerating) different rebadged models off of one vehicle, while there are models that need the attention they're pouring into that effort.

Response to 5:

6 speed auto trans *palms sweating.*  I remember how much overhauling a THM GM RWD 3 speed trans used to cost as our family has done it, I know how much overhauling a 4 speed GM transaxle currently costs and I shudder to think how much overhauling a 6 speed GM transaxle or transmission would cost.

183777[/snapback]

I hear you. However my 1993 Chevrolet Silverado, that I bought new, has a mere 137,000 miles and nothing but fluid and filter changes done to the trans. What a great unit. What you're talking about is a scary thought, but so is purchasing a 4 speed and within 6 months a 6 speed is released and your value drops. I don't have to have a 6 spd, I just don't want to make a bad decision, ya know?

[Robert Hall]

General idea understood; but why does Pontiac get 5 models [ G5, G6, mid-sized sedan (G8), Solstice, and possible GTO ], when Buick gets only 3 [ Epsilon II LaCrosse, Lambda Enclave, Global RWD Lucerne (Statesman) ]?  Then Automotive News reports, in its Future Products feature, that Pontiac will be the "sporty coupe and convertible brand."  Leaving what for Buick?  Let's be fair!  Wagoner and LaNeve said, to the effect of, rather than have a full line of 8 vehicles using half-hearted efforts or obvious badge engineering, wouldn't it be better to have 4 or 5 really good Buicks?  OK, where are they?

183471[/snapback]

5 for Pontiac, 3 for Buick, 5 for GMC.. that's 13, plenty enough for the full BGP line of 2010.

[Robert Hall]

Response to 4:

Is the LaCrosse having sales problems?  Can someone throw some numbers at this?  I'd sure like to see them if someone has stats.

Response to 5:

6 speed auto trans *palms sweating.*  I remember how much overhauling a THM GM RWD 3 speed trans used to cost as our family has done it, I know how much overhauling a 4 speed GM transaxle currently costs and I shudder to think how much overhauling a 6 speed GM transaxle or transmission would cost.

183777[/snapback]

A modern transmission shouldn't need 'overhauled' at any reasonable mileage interval.. a new car automatic transmission should be good for at least 100k with routine service.

[GMman]

Also the Lambda vans won't just be nose jobs.

I know, but isn't there talk now about Chevy getting a version too? The GMC thing is just wearing me out.

The Lucerne is G. I was just saying that I wasn't sure if G could house the 6-speed (and therefore the Lucerne might not be able to get it). The LaCrosse is W and it for sure can NOT house the 6-speed.

183795[/snapback]

Got ya. That is a good question then...is there anyway to find out if the G platform can accept the 6 speed?

[Robert Hall]

I know, but isn't there talk now about Chevy getting a version too?  The GMC thing is just wearing me out. 

Got ya.  That is a good question then...is there anyway to find out if the G platform can accept the 6 speed?

184174[/snapback]

I guess when GM offers a Lucerne or DTS with a 6-speed, then we will know that the G platform can accept the 6-speed..

[ehaase]

I have no idea if they're having sales problems. 

184162[/snapback]

Sales are down quite a bit. Through July of this year, Buick sold 42,685 LaCrosses, compared to 58,441 for the same period of 2005, down roughly 25 percent.

[buyacargetacheck]

Sales are down quite a bit.  Through July of this year, Buick sold 42,685 LaCrosses, compared to 58,441 for the same period of 2005, down roughly 25 percent.

184178[/snapback]

Maybe the G6 is getting sealegs and cannibalizing a bit??? Sales are up 45% so far this year: 92,278 this year versus 63,532 last yr. That W backseat isn't helping.

[Cananopie]

Sales are down quite a bit.  Through July of this year, Buick sold 42,685 LaCrosses, compared to 58,441 for the same period of 2005, down roughly 25 percent.

184178[/snapback]

We'll just ignore the fact that last summer just happened to be more GM cars sold in the history of cars in one summer. Last summer was the sale of sales wasn't it? So obviously sales would be down this summer. It's only natural- not dramatic.

[ehaase]

We'll just ignore the fact that last summer just happened to be more GM cars sold in the history of cars in one summer. Last summer was the sale of sales wasn't it? So obviously sales would be down this summer. It's only natural- not dramatic.

184284[/snapback]

The sales figures I gave were for January through July 2006 compared to January to July 2005, not just the summer months. Even if you pull out the months with GM's employee pricing promotion, sales are probably still down by about 10 or 15 percent. However, I am too lazy to look up the figures and do an analysis. As I recall, LaCrosse sales were about 8,000 in July 2006, compared to around 13,000 in July 2005. Edited August 24, 2006 by ehaase

[enzl]

The sales figures I gave were for January through July 2006 compared to January to July 2005, not just the summer months.  Even if you pull out the months with GM's employee pricing promotion, sales are probably still down by about 10 or 15 percent.  However, I am too lazy to look up the figures and do an analysis.  As I recall, LaCrosse sales were about 8,000 in July 2006, compared to around 13,000 in July 2005.

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Factor in a 30% fleet giveaway across the Company and the situation becomes more bleak.

[bring_BUICK_back]

Lets just fast the facts. The upper echelon at GM have their had up their ass when it comes to doing anything with the slightest bit of know how to bring Buick around or even how to manage it. The Enclave is a beautifule vehicle that should be brought out now The Lucerne definitely a step in the right direction. Buick can not survive with 3 vehicles and everyone else is getting full stables.

Buick needs products and not no badge enginered piece of crap. We need to stand up and let our voices be heard and tell GM to stop bastardizing Buick and bring back to the glory it was and before 2010

[91z4me]

Lets just fast the facts.  The upper echelon at GM have their had up their ass when it comes to doing anything with the slightest bit of know how to bring Buick around or even how to manage it.  The Enclave is a beautifule vehicle that should be brought out now  The Lucerne definitely a step in the right direction.  Buick can not survive with 3 vehicles and everyone else is getting full stables.

Buick needs products and not no badge enginered piece of crap.  We need to stand up and let our voices be heard and tell GM to stop bastardizing Buick and bring back to the glory it was and before 2010

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Any changes done to product plans now will not have an effect before 2011 and likely 2012. Give the guys a chance before you bash them. You nor I have ANY idea what is going to happen with Buick outside of the Enclave and a RWD large sedan. Lacrosse could move to EPII or it could not, we don't know 100% for sure yet.

Didn't people doubt Saturn's turnaround for the longest time, and Caddies at that?

[wildcat]

Saturn and Cadillac each got more than three turnaround vehicles, and each brand was constantly talked about by GM. Buick has received neither.

Buick seems to be dead last in priority and concern to GM.

This is 2006. You mean it will be 2012 before GM has Buick's house in order? Better change "Beyond Precision" to "Beyond Waiting a Reasonable Amount of Time."

[buickguy]

GM seems really afraid to invest in Buick.

1. Three awesome concepts (LaCrosse, Bengal & Velite) received critical acclaim, and yet not one was made. The current LaCrosse only used the name.

2. Buick has beaten Toyota and dozens of other brands in dependability, quality, yet this is not in advertising. I think it bothers GM that Buick routinely beats Cadillac and all GM brands.

The Enclave is beautiful and a step in the right direction, so I hope this is a sign of more great things to come for Buick.

Honestly, I don't understand the investment in Saab USA. They get a rebadge of the Ranier. Why? What a waste. Sales of Saab are low, quality is terrible, why invest in that rather than Buick? If anything should be rebadged it should be the Saab convertible into a Buick.

[buyacargetacheck]

"Didn't people doubt Saturn's turnaround for the longest time, and Caddies at that?"

Not so fast. Saturn hasn't turned anything around yet. Need to see sales and profits first. And Cadillac isn't exactly setting the world on fire, especially with the STS and SRX.

[91z4me]

"Didn't people doubt Saturn's turnaround for the longest time, and Caddies at that?"

Not so fast.  Saturn hasn't turned anything around yet.  Need to see sales and profits first.  And Cadillac isn't exactly setting the world on fire, especially with the STS and SRX.

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Do you really think with all the product stated for Saturn that its sales will not rise? CTS is where volume is growning. Not only that but it is setting up future sales of higher profit/larger vehicles. GMT900 Escalade, NG CTS, and the upcoming BRX will grow the brand as will the revamped STS as it moves up in size.

Saturn and Cadillac each got more than three turnaround vehicles, and each brand was constantly talked about by GM. Buick has received neither.

Caddy turned around with the launch of the A&S cars, XLR and CTS. CTS made the world turn its opinions around quite quickly on Caddy. STS was purely a larger more traditional STS. SRX has been considered a critical success but a sales disaster. DTS and GMT900 Escalade were not game changers Escalade might pull in a few more sales but it won't impact the perception of the brad. CTS did that by itself. Lucerne is turning a lot more heads than the Lesabre and PA did in their last few years. Volume is down but the Lucerene is selling at higher transaction prices than the last of the older Buick G-body twins. That is good. Right now the SUV area will be covered in full by Enclave and that is a good thing. Lucerne is doing quite well. A revamped EPII Lacrosse will much better than the current Lacrosse could hope to do. I think they really only need maybe a compact SUV, theta sized, to have a rounded out lineup.

Buick seems to be dead last in priority and concern to GM.

I will disagree with that for 2 reasons, GM has publically stated it will not be abandoning its brands anytime soon and 2 Buick is not a stand alone line anymore! Buick is partnered with GMC and Pontiac. Pontiac will cover the lower end/sporty cars and GMC will handle the trucks, why we don't need a Raineer or Rendevous. If GMC gets a Theta or sub-Theta model then Buick doesn't need one.

This is 2006. You mean it will be 2012 before GM has Buick's house in order? Better change "Beyond Precision" to "Beyond Waiting a Reasonable Amount of Time."

This is model year 2007, GM plans things years in advanced and that means they are likely planning the 2011-2012 model years now. It takes time to do engineering and design work. It takes time to build up the cash to do new models. It takes time to build a brand into the positive area of customer perception, which despite what many "Buick Fans" might think is not very good right now.

Now a question for the "Buick Faithful": How many of you bought your last Buick NEW within the last 7 years?

My guess is not many.

[buickguy]

I bought a Lucerne CSX in December.